I am almost at the end of my rope - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

92bDad · 03-05-2008, 09:25 AM

Folks, I love the Mavs, the players, the team, the city...everything about the Mavs is positive and a great story.

Except one...the league...or should I say David Stern and his mafia mentality.

Early as the Mavs began to rise up the chain of top teams in the league I thought that they had to pay their dues and put up with biased officiating. Watching phantom calls after another and the Mavs players not getting any benefit of the doubt. I thought it was due to being the new contenders on the block.

But in the Championship series with Miami I began to wonder, was there some type of mandate by Stern and company to tease Cuban and then put him away in an effort to drive him out of the league?

Since that Championship, I have noticed in key situations that the Mavs continue to get the raw end of the officiating stick. It's gotten to the point where I no longer understand what is a foul and what isn't.

These past three games with the Spurs, Lakers and Jazz have really magnified the point.

I remember early in the 4th quarter of the Jazz game, my son and I started laughing and we both at the same time stated that the Jazz need not worry, the officials would turn this around for them and help put the Mavs away.

The league has finally started to lose me as a fan. It's turned into the WWF of organized sports and it is no longer entertaining.

The sad part is that the players are victims in this. Dirk and company are pouring out their hearts and skill on the court, but Stern is bound and determined to keep Cuban away from sniffing ultimate success.

If you ask me, Stern has created a taste and now he is taking it away in hopes that he can get Cuban to sell the Mavs. Stern wants Cuban out of the league and he is manipulating the system to force his hand.

If you ask me, Cuban should take all his statistics of the referee's, expand his research and then take the NBA and David Stern to Civil court for Billions of Dolllars.

I would rather see Cuban take down a league, than to see a fake product on the court.

My apologies to the many of you who still believe in the NBA...as far as I am concerned Stern is the new Satan, he is the father of all lies and I am through as a financial supportive fan of this WWF organized league.

MavsX · 03-05-2008, 09:33 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1rZBxn3Zx8

muzak · 03-05-2008, 10:07 AM

i agree with you. i was just talking about this the other night. i think the players are truly out there to play and win, but the league tries to quietly control the games. it's become a lot more prominent this season than previously. more than likely as a result of last years pitiful playoffs and ratings. i know it can sound like a crazy conspiracy theory, but dang-it if it doesn't appear this way to the naked eye. i'd like to think i'm wrong, but i really don't know what to think at this point.

muzak · 03-05-2008, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsX

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1rZBxn3Zx8

LMFAO

jthig32 · 03-05-2008, 10:09 AM

If you truly believe this, you should just stop watching.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-05-2008, 10:16 AM

He is right though. It can be disheartening. The refs get to choose what a foul and what isn't. That means that they control the game, not the players.

LSMF · 03-05-2008, 10:47 AM

Yea I agree with everything your saying, I have always said that if Mark Cuban wants his team to be successful he MUST go apologize to emperor stern for all the comments he has made about him. And mark should also apologize to the refs for constantly screaming at them, but we all know cubes would never do that...

muzak · 03-05-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

If you truly believe this, you should just stop watching.

i would personally like to see the house, so to speak, get beaten. defy the odds of Stern.

what are the odds that the LA and Boston thing is happening? what are the odds? that's a ratings machine waiting to happen. hmmm...coincidence?

Kidd Karma · 03-05-2008, 11:26 AM

I hear you.

I am out in Oakland Raider territory and boy you sub Al Davis in place of Cuban, and current NFL commish at the time.......exactly the same bull the Raiders have gone through since the 70's.

Underdog · 03-05-2008, 11:33 AM

It's not just the Mavs - the entire NBA's officiating is questionable... It seems like I learn a new rule (or interpretation of a rule) every game I watch... It's the same story in the NFL too - hell, every pro sport has it's own scandal right now...

All of these scandals are a result of sports gambling... Expect shady behavior as long as there's a shady dollar to be earned - the Mafia has run the sports books since they first opened, so don't be surprised if their business practices have seeped into pro sports as a whole...

slowmo · 03-05-2008, 11:44 AM

It is appauling when one player gets more free throws than and entire team! And it happens way to often against the mav's!

fluid.forty.one · 03-05-2008, 12:00 PM

If Dirk or Terry hits a shot then we don't have this conversation. Sure, the refs can influence a game.. but the players can control it as long as they hit shots.

GermanBlitzkrieg · 03-05-2008, 12:23 PM

Fluid, so they hit a shot or 2 more. Then the refs just call more fouls...

Glad to see that there are more people seeing, and admitting, what I've noticed...

GermanBlitzkrieg · 03-05-2008, 12:28 PM

So far as don't watch, I really haven't watched much since Miami. But I've watched since the very beginning, even went to a few Chaparrals games. THE LEAGUE IS CROOKED, the refs are crooked, or there's some really stupid people as refs.

Taking up macramé...

mcsluggo · 03-05-2008, 12:31 PM

would you please pause for a second.... and think, really really think, about what would be involved for stern/nba to maintain a long run ref conspiracy to knock Cuban down to his knees.

It is whack enough to think about what be required for the NBA front office to overtly influence a specific key game (the potential reward versus the potential cost is pretty miniscule). Do you really think it is possible to reign in the number of refs required to screw the mavs REPEATEDLY over many years. Look at oligopoly game theory on what happens to the probability of successful collusion when the number of participants increases. there is absolutely ZERO chance that there wouldn't be ONE ref that realizes how much HE PERSONALLY could advance himself by being the individual to blow the cover on this.

Usually Lurkin · 03-05-2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanBlitzkrieg

Fluid, so they hit a shot or 2 more. Then the refs just call more fouls...

This is so true. I've started to root for them to force referee bias to get blatant as often as I root for the actual win. If even for a couple of playoff series a year, the team playing against the referee's favorite can force calls so blatant that the national media speaks out, then we've got hope for change. Otherwise, it'll take a conversation on tape, which we obviously don't have yet.

Usually Lurkin · 03-05-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

would you please pause for a second.... and think, really really think, about what would be involved for stern/nba to maintain a long run ref conspiracy to knock Cuban down to his knees.

It is whack enough to think about what be required for the NBA front office to overtly influence a specific key game (the potential reward versus the potential cost is pretty miniscule). Do you really think it is possible to reign in the number of refs required to screw the mavs REPEATEDLY over many years. Look at oligopoly game theory on what happens to the probability of successful collusion when the number of participants increases. there is absolutely ZERO chance that there wouldn't be ONE ref that realizes how much HE PERSONALLY could advance himself by being the individual to blow the cover on this.

all it takes is, "Reward the stars we promote" and "we won't promote Cuban"
Then they can always keep the refs who interpret those correctly.

fluid.forty.one · 03-05-2008, 12:38 PM

you guys are losing it

LSMF · 03-05-2008, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

It's not just the Mavs - the entire NBA's officiating is questionable... It seems like I learn a new rule (or interpretation of a rule) every game I watch... It's the same story in the NFL too - hell, every pro sport has it's own scandal right now...

All of these scandals are a result of sports gambling... Expect shady behavior as long as there's a shady dollar to be earned - the Mafia has run the sports books since they first opened, so don't be surprised if their business practices have seeped into pro sports as a whole...

I agree with your points about the Nba's officiating being questionable but there are times when I watch mavs games I start getting the feeling that some of those calls are mad to screw the mavs. Especially when we got 2 the finals, those calls were horrible,Dirk was getting pounded physically by Haslem, while D-fake ended shooting 97 freethrows in 6 games. This one really hurt- http://youtube.com/watch?v=fydhtOSlfW0

Kidd Karma · 03-05-2008, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

It's not just the Mavs - the entire NBA's officiating is questionable... It seems like I learn a new rule (or interpretation of a rule) every game I watch... It's the same story in the NFL too - hell, every pro sport has it's own scandal right now...

All of these scandals are a result of sports gambling... Expect shady behavior as long as there's a shady dollar to be earned - the Mafia has run the sports books since they first opened, so don't be surprised if their business practices have seeped into pro sports as a whole...

Seems like Stern has successfully swept the Donaghy incident as well as all the refs entering casinos(against ref rules).

guntfighter · 03-05-2008, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92bDad

I am almost at the end of my rope.

buy a gun.

antoinewalker · 03-05-2008, 01:33 PM

do you really think david stern is explicitly telling the refs to call the game in favor of the mavericks' opponents? you do realize all the recent mavs' losses have come on the road? wait until you see the officiating of the mavericks at home before you make that statement.

9 of the next 10 games are at home so it will be interesting to see how the refs call the game, especially towards the end of the game. i expect them to make calls more in favor of the mavericks now that the majority of their upcoming games are at the AAC.

by the way, i'm not trying to be negative at all. i'm just trying to do everything i can to keep from overreacting. every team goes through a slump. it's annoying when the mavericks lose a few games and all of sudden, everyone on here is demanding that mark cuban fire avery johnson and now people like you are about to quit watching the mavericks just because you think david stern has a personal vendetta against them. do you really want to fire the coach that took the mavericks to the nba finals 2 years ago? are you really going to quit watching the mavericks because you didn't get a few calls late in the game and on the road?

the mavericks have gone 5-5 in their last 10 games, they've lost a few recent games on the road, and you want to quit watching the mavericks? come on dude. get real.

LSMF · 03-05-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antoinewalker

do you really think david stern is explicitly telling the refs to call the game in favor of the mavericks' opponents? you do realize all the recent mavs' losses have come on the road? wait until you see the officiating of the mavericks at home before you make that statement.

9 of the next 10 games are at home so it will be interesting to see how the refs call the game, especially towards the end of the game. i expect them to make calls more in favor of the mavericks now that the majority of their upcoming games are at the AAC.

by the way, i'm not trying to be negative at all. i'm just trying to do everything i can to keep from overreacting. every team goes through a slump. it's annoying when the mavericks lose a few games and all of sudden, everyone on here is demanding that mark cuban fire avery johnson and now people like you are about to quit watching the mavericks just because you think david stern has a personal vendetta against them. do you really want to fire the coach that took the mavericks to the nba finals 2 years ago? are you really going to quit watching the mavericks because you didn't get a few calls late in the game and on the road?

the mavericks have gone 5-5 in their last 10 games, they've lost a few recent games on the road, and you want to quit watching the mavericks? come on dude. get real.

Hey are you a mavs fan??

Usually Lurkin · 03-05-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antoinewalker

do you really think david stern is explicitly telling the refs to call the game in favor of the mavericks' opponents? you do realize all the recent mavs' losses have come on the road? wait until you see the officiating of the mavericks at home before you make that statement.

Home-court bias and the star system are in themselves something to complain about. But this goes beyond the last few mavs games, and beyond simple referee home-cooking. Remember the Kings/Lakers series of a few years ago? Remember the Pistons/Cavs series? There is something diseased in the system of the NBA, and some symptoms have presented through our very own mavs. You're right about the home-court cooking. Did you know that some refs are more susceptible to the home crowd than others? So that the home team is more likely to win with those refs than with other refs? Who do you think makes the decision concerning which referees work which games during the playoffs? It wouldn't take explicit instruction by Stern.

Underdog · 03-05-2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Home-court bias and the star system are in themselves something to complain about. But this goes beyond the last few mavs games, and beyond simple referee home-cooking. Remember the Kings/Lakers series of a few years ago? Remember the Pistons/Cavs series? There is something diseased in the system of the NBA, and some symptoms have presented through our very own mavs. You're right about the home-court cooking. Did you know that some refs are more susceptible to the home crowd than others? So that the home team is more likely to win with those refs than with other refs? Who do you think makes the decision concerning which referees work which games during the playoffs? It wouldn't take explicit instruction by Stern.

You beat me to the punch - I was just about to add this point...

slowmo · 03-05-2008, 02:39 PM

Conspiracy theory: All the refs are robots and Joey Crawford has the remote control ! Stern is yelling over his shoulder "Did you get that one?" "You miss another one like that and I will quit letting you sleep over at my house on Saturday nights!"

Dirkadirkastan · 03-05-2008, 02:40 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0TgJE7C5wiU

Look closely at 4:50 & 5:30.

We can always give them the benefit of the doubt. The envelope belonging to the Knicks, i.e. the team whose home is the city of the NBA headquarters, had a bent corner in it, and this envelope was the first chosen. Yeah, it's POSSIBLE that this was just a coincidence, but when coincidences pile up, eventually you have to wonder.

-----------

UL made a crucial point as well. The "conspiracy" aspect isn't as necessary as people think. Just throw in the refs with certain natural tendencies and roll the dice. Why do Bavetta and the female ref (forgot her name) always seem to get paired together during our critical games (the Lakers game is just the most recent example), always with disastrous results? Not saying Stern has the Mavs as his primary target, but I only watch Mavs games so I don't know how else that pair is utilized throughout the league.

-----------

As I explained in another thread, the Mavs lost the Miami series because they were forced to play on their heels. Once the calls started piling up against them (Bill Simmons called the last six minutes of Game 3 one of the most biased stretches he's ever seen), they realized that it was against the rules for them to play their normal game. They HAD to play soft and avoid contact at all costs, because any contact sends Wade to the free throw line. The problem just got worse and worse throughout the series, culminating in Game 6 when Howard and Harris would get beaten up repeatedly in the lane with no call, and Wade would get silly touch calls while shooting jumpers.

That's why it pisses me off every time someone says the Mavs are a soft team or are mentally weak, and I especially hate it when Mavs fans say this. It was pretty obvious that Dallas was avoiding all contact and Miami was trying to initiate as much contact as possible, and for good reason. Both teams saw the pattern, and the team that felt right at home as the aggressors in Game 6 won.

GermanBlitzkrieg · 03-05-2008, 02:40 PM

And to mcsluggo, etc.:

"Seems like Stern has successfully swept the Donaghy incident as well as all the refs entering casinos(against ref rules)."

Duh. Donaghy said he was going to blow the whistle. That was the first report of what he said.

Then nothing.

Do you think the mafia couldn't have an in? Besides that, what the heck is a "star system" if not outright cheating?

Call the game right for everyone.

Hundreds of millions of dollars involved every year, and you think cheating isn't viable?

And one other thing: too many people see the fouls and non-fouls. It's just too blatant. I know we're supposed to be good sheep. But I don't baaaahhhh.

Dtownsfinest · 03-05-2008, 02:56 PM

If you guys feel this way why support the NBA? Why watch? I get sick of seeing all these conspiracy theories about how the league is out to get the Mavs. If I felt that way i'd never watch the NBA and I surely wouldn't support it.

Usually Lurkin · 03-05-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

If you guys feel this way why support the NBA? Why watch? I get sick of seeing all these conspiracy theories about how the league is out to get the Mavs. If I felt that way i'd never watch the NBA and I surely wouldn't support it.

I love the NBA. The NBA is sick. If the Mavs play well enough, they will force the issue. The NBA can be cured.

Dirkadirkastan · 03-05-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

If you guys feel this way why support the NBA? Why watch? I get sick of seeing all these conspiracy theories about how the league is out to get the Mavs. If I felt that way i'd never watch the NBA and I surely wouldn't support it.

I hate the NBA league office, but I love the Mavs. Even if there's a man behind the curtain pulling all the strings, it's not on the level of the WWF and it never will be, because the players give their heart and soul to the game. If anything, they would be jobbed by the man behind the curtain; they wouldn't merely be carrying out his wishes.

Besides, I have a hard time believing anyone would rig the game in favor of the Spurs, because nobody watches them. And they win anyway. Why not us?

LSMF · 03-05-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0TgJE7C5wiU

Look closely at 4:50 & 5:30.

We can always give them the benefit of the doubt. The envelope belonging to the Knicks, i.e. the team whose home is the city of the NBA headquarters, had a bent corner in it, and this envelope was the first chosen. Yeah, it's POSSIBLE that this was just a coincidence, but when coincidences pile up, eventually you have to wonder.

-----------

UL made a crucial point as well. The "conspiracy" aspect isn't as necessary as people think. Just throw in the refs with certain natural tendencies and roll the dice. Why do Bavetta and the female ref (forgot her name) always seem to get paired together during our critical games (the Lakers game is just the most recent example), always with disastrous results? Not saying Stern has the Mavs as his primary target, but I only watch Mavs games so I don't know how else that pair is utilized throughout the league.

-----------

As I explained in another thread, the Mavs lost the Miami series because they were forced to play on their heels. Once the calls started piling up against them (Bill Simmons called the last six minutes of Game 3 one of the most biased stretches he's ever seen), they realized that it was against the rules for them to play their normal game. They HAD to play soft and avoid contact at all costs, because any contact sends Wade to the free throw line. The problem just got worse and worse throughout the series, culminating in Game 6 when Howard and Harris would get beaten up repeatedly in the lane with no call, and Wade would get silly touch calls while shooting jumpers.

That's why it pisses me off every time someone says the Mavs are a soft team or are mentally weak, and I especially hate it when Mavs fans say this. It was pretty obvious that Dallas was avoiding all contact and Miami was trying to initiate as much contact as possible, and for good reason. Both teams saw the pattern, and the team that felt right at home as the aggressors in Game 6 won.

You deserve rep for this

Flacolaco · 03-05-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

If you guys feel this way why support the NBA? Why watch?

Because even if it's fixed, it beats watching some scrawny little nobodies shoot 32% against Northwestern Nowhere State University A&M on ESPN2 on a tuesday night. Man I hate college basketball.

Even so, I don't personally believe the NBA is rigged. Certainly it is flawed, but what are you gonna go? The Mavs need to learn how to draw more contact and get to the line. That's the system. They can either use it, or get left behind. But they like to shoot those jumpers so....oh well. We get screwed sometimes because we're not aggressive enough.

Dirk is a master at finding space for himself to shoot those fade aways he love so much. And it's a thing of beauty, but i sometimes wonder if he wouldn't be better off leaning forward rather than back, to draw that contact. Especially early in games. He could open it up for himself that way.

DirkFTW · 03-05-2008, 04:38 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

I’m no stranger to fouls
You make the rules like you were high
A flagrant two is what you’re thinking of
You wouldn't do this to any other guy

I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling
Gotta make you understand

I just wanna F you up
I just wanna beat you down
I just wanna kick your balls and desert you
I just wanna make you cry
Till you wanna say goodbye
I just wanna tell a lie and hurt you

You've been screwing us for so long
Your balls are aching
But you're too sick to stop it
Inside we both know what's been going on
You run the game so you’re gonna play it

And if you ask me how I'm feeling
Don't tell me you're too dumb to see

I just wanna F you up
I just wanna beat you down
I just wanna kick your balls and desert you
I just wanna make you cry
Till you wanna say goodbye
I just wanna tell a lie and hurt you
(Repeat Chorus)

F you up, F you up
F you up, F you up
I just wanna F,
I just wanna F, F you up
I just wanna F,
I just wanna F, F you up

You've been screwing us for so long
Your balls are aching
But you're too sick to stop it
Inside we both know what's been going on
You run the game so you’re gonna play it

I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling
Gotta make you understand

(Chorus times three)

slowmo · 03-05-2008, 04:43 PM

Yep, all the mav's need to do is learn to lean forward and fall into the other team to get foul calls. RIGHT. Wish it worked that easily for us. Ref's would just call offensive foul on us and then a tech for any possible gripping!

Usually Lurkin · 03-05-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Man I hate college basketball.

double positive rep for this

Quote:

The Mavs need to learn how to draw more contact and get to the line. That's the system. They can either use it, or get left behind. .

- double negative rep for this

equal no rep for you!

Dirk is absolutely mauled on a regular basis with no call. The mavs often settle for the jumpers not cause they are lazy, but because they don't get the call. Until Dirk takes up with Nike on a national campaign and plasters himself all over every product that we might see during prime-time-commercial-time, Mavs will not get all the calls. They have to work against those calls until the system loses credibility.

LSMF · 03-05-2008, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Dirk is absolutely mauled on a regular basis with no call. The mavs often settle for the jumpers not cause they are lazy, but because they don't get the call. Until Dirk takes up with Nike on a national campaign and plasters himself all over every product that we might see during prime-time-commercial-time, Mavs will not get all the calls. They have to work against those calls until the system loses credibility.

Exactly!

Dtownsfinest · 03-05-2008, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I hate the NBA league office, but I love the Mavs. Even if there's a man behind the curtain pulling all the strings, it's not on the level of the WWF and it never will be, because the players give their heart and soul to the game. If anything, they would be jobbed by the man behind the curtain; they wouldn't merely be carrying out his wishes.

Besides, I have a hard time believing anyone would rig the game in favor of the Spurs, because nobody watches them. And they win anyway. Why not us?

And that's the thing. IF the NBA is rigged wouldn't they have the Suns win the championship? I just don't get the benefit of allowing the Spurs to win every year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Because even if it's fixed, it beats watching some scrawny little nobodies shoot 32% against Northwestern Nowhere State University A&M on ESPN2 on a tuesday night. Man I hate college basketball.

Even so, I don't personally believe the NBA is rigged. Certainly it is flawed, but what are you gonna go? The Mavs need to learn how to draw more contact and get to the line. That's the system. They can either use it, or get left behind. But they like to shoot those jumpers so....oh well. We get screwed sometimes because we're not aggressive enough.

Dirk is a master at finding space for himself to shoot those fade aways he love so much. And it's a thing of beauty, but i sometimes wonder if he wouldn't be better off leaning forward rather than back, to draw that contact. Especially early in games. He could open it up for himself that way.

LOL. I'm there with you. I hate college basketball as well. And me and you see the Mavs situation just about the same. I don't think the Mavs offensively are aggressive enough and this is why they get a lot of no-calls. The jumpers are great when they're falling but when they're not the Mavs are doomed because either A) they rely to heavily on those jumpers or B) they refuse to drive to the rack and be more aggressive. There's no question Wade and Kobe get the star treatment. You won't get an argument out of me on that one. But its not that they're sitting on their ass waiting for the game to come to them. They're bussing their ass and driving to the rack.

Quote:

Dirk is absolutely mauled on a regular basis with no call. The mavs often settle for the jumpers not cause they are lazy, but because they don't get the call. Until Dirk takes up with Nike on a national campaign and plasters himself all over every product that we might see during prime-time-commercial-time, Mavs will not get all the calls. They have to work against those calls until the system loses credibility.

That has nothing to do with it. Maggette is 4th in the league in free throw attempts per game and I don't see him on any sort of national campaign. What about Richard Jeffesron? And you know what's funny about those two guys who didn't even make the all star team this year? They average more free throw attempts per game than both Dwayne Wade and Kobe Bryant. They're aggressive. That's what seperates them from any Mav on this team.

I've noticed Dirk flops a lot when he recieves contact. I'm sure the refs have a hard time deciphering what's a real foul and what's not when it comes to Dirk. I'd like to see Dirk drive to the rack and expect to not get a call. Just go and expect to score points. It seems when he drives to the rack he expects to be bailed out by the refs whistle.

Usually Lurkin · 03-05-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

That has nothing to do with it. Maggette is 4th in the league in free throw attempts per game and I don't see him on any sort of national campaign.

you are one of them.

Dtownsfinest · 03-05-2008, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

you are one of them.

What?