Why It Is Pointless To Discuss Politics Here

[Hitman]

You know...I am a very political person.

I am neither left, nor right.

I listen or watch Bill O'Reilly on a regular basis,

and I would describe myself as slightly left of him. But I respect him a great deal - because he deals with facts and does not blindly endorse or dismiss anyone without first hearing the whole argument.

What do I think?

I thought President Clinton did a pretty good job as president, despite his indescretions.

There is a possibility that he could have handled the "Pre" War on Terror better, however.

I also think that "W" is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and has made numerous mistakes in his presidency that a logical person can surely recognize. But I respect the fact that he took action because he thought it was the right thing to do and didn't wait for the "world" to agree with him. I think if the US President and the UK PM think that war is necessary...then by all means...lets do it.

John Kerry's record of flip flops and apparent lies about his contribution are unnacceptable. However, he does present some good arguments about repealing the tax cuts on the wealthiest people, reversing the roll backs to the clean air act and having a clearer vision of pre- and post- war Iraq.

I also find Micheal Moore and Paul Krugman (that would be the New York Times columnist) repugnant...however the same can be said for Rush Limbaugh, who is as ignorant as they come (though I think he was unfortunately forced out of MNF...but that is another issue.

But the petty name calling, and immaturity here on every political subject is so tiring. Someone who is left posts an article and people who are on the right respond with insults. Somene who is right posts an article and people respond with defamation.

Next time...try debating someone with facts, and maybe this place would actually be worth coming to.

Lets try it for a while! It might be fun...and we all might actually learn something.

[Drbio]

Rush is ignorant? That has to be one of the most short-sighted statements ever in this forum Hitman. I'm not a big fan of Rush either as I cannot stand his ego filled rants, but the man is tremendously intelligent. I think you are off base on that one.

[FishForLunch]

When the left insults Bush it is only fair to respond. Would you like someone calling your candidate a moron, dumb as a doorknob, war criminal and hitler like?

[kg_veteran]

There is too much name-calling in this forum, but I think facts are also discussed here. The reason DJ created this separate forum was so that people could hash out political issues here.

Would less name-calling (and for that matter, generalization and use of cliches) make the discussions here more productive? Undoubtedly. Are there, nonethless, interesting debates and discussions here? Yes.

[Usually Lurkin]

As recent postings in the General Mavs Forum attest, name calling is the first response in a lot of 'discussions' outside the political forum.

[chumdawg]

Someone told me once about an exercise you can use to really analyze yourself, to determine whether you are open-minded when it comes to politics or hopelessly blind to opposing arguments. The exercise goes like this:

1) Name three things you dislike about your candidate.
2) Name three things you like about the other candidate.

I tried this myself. I was able to come up with some things I dislike about Bush. But sadly, I couldn't think of a single thing I like about Kerry. So I pronounced myself hopelessly blind to the other side and was done with it.

Yet, I still cling to a tiny thought that perhaps the fault is not mine, perhaps there simply isn't anything for a reasonable person to like about Kerry.

[Chiwas]

That leads us to the....Rejection election!:

[sturm und drang]

Chumdawg wrote:

"Yet, I still cling to a tiny thought that perhaps the fault is not mine, perhaps there simply isn't anything for a reasonable person to like about Kerry."

I'll be the first to admit that Kerry isn't particularly likeable. However, I think Chiwas' cartoon is right: If Bush loses, it will be because "Anyone but Bush" trumps "Not Kerry."

Kerry was my least favorite Dem candidate – okay, except Lieberman – but I would vote for anyone over Bush.

Chumdawg, I took your test and my top three reasons I like Kerry are:
1. He's not Bush
2. He's not Bush
3. He's not Bush

Sad, but true. I – and many other zealous Democrats, I can assure you – are voting by default this November. I still maintain that this is the weakest presidential field (for both parties) in recent memory.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: sturm und drang Sad, but true. I – and many other zealous Democrats, I can assure you – are voting by default this November. I still maintain that this is the weakest presidential field (for both parties) in recent memory.

come on, did you forget the 2000 election that quickly? Bush vs Gore? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[veruca salt]

Originally posted by: FishForLunch
When the left insults Bush it is only fair to respond. Would you like someone calling your candidate a moron, dumb as a doorknob, war criminal and hitler like?

Wouldn't be far from what Ann Coulter has called Kerry.

[dude1394]

Veruca...If it were an ex vp of the republican party saying this stuff then it MIGHT be the same. If Bush himself said that the democrats were the "most crooked, you know, lying group of people I've ever seen". Then you might have a parallel there.

If Ann Coulter is in the box with Bush 41 then you might have a point. As soon as you hear the RNC calling Kerry a deserter and coward, then you'll have a point.

Sure there are radicals on both sides, but the difference is the 'crats have those radicals on stage with them and condoning their excesses. If the 'pubs did that the media would be ALL over them.

[veruca salt]

*sigh* it was a cheeky throw-a-way comment dude, didn't need a 3 paragraph rebuttle.
That'll teach me to not use emoticons.

[FishForLunch]

Wouldn't be far from what Ann Coulter has called Kerry.

So the real reason the Moveon crowd, Moore, and the hollywierd people are throwing bombs at Bush is because Ann Coulter insulted Kerry?

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: Hitman
Next time...try debating someone with facts, and maybe this place would actually be worth coming to.

Lets try it for a while! It might be fun...and we all might actually learn something.

I used to love discussing politics - I don't do it anymore.

It's not just this forum - it is politics in general. Nobody wants to argue/discuss/debate politics anymore. Everyone wants to WIN the discussion and HAMMER their foe into submission. Politics in this country right now is as subtle as a sledgehammer. And everyone takes it so PERSONALLY now.

Political discussions should be about the free flow of ideas - not a war of sound bites.

[dude1394]

The reason that everyone takes it so personally is because the stakes are higher. The clintoon years were a decade of unseriousness. We thought that the world was going to just be peaches and cream forever. We never realised that you can't just skate in the world.

[Max Power]

Well things were pretty serious when Jimmy Carter was in office. We had the Iran hostage situation, double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, a terrible military, the Soviets making saber rattling noises, the cold war, and gas prices through the roof.

And yet I don't remember the political discusssions being quite so personal back then.

[veruca salt]

Originally posted by: Max Power

I used to love discussing politics - I don't do it anymore.

It's not just this forum - it is politics in general. Nobody wants to argue/discuss/debate politics anymore. Everyone wants to WIN the discussion and HAMMER their foe into submission. Politics in this country right now is as subtle as a sledgehammer. And everyone takes it so PERSONALLY now.

Political discussions should be about the free flow of ideas - not a war of sound bites.

Yaaay! Agree 100% Max. One of the most sensible things I've read on here in awhile!

[sturm und drang]

Everyone says the U.S. is more polarized than ever, and I believe it. As of a month or so ago, only 18% of voters were "undecided" – the lowest percentage ever at that juncture in time.

And the interesting part of this is that, for better or worse, this campaign feels much more like Bush v. Anyone-but-Bush than Bush v. Kerry. This campaign is not at all about the Democratic senator. It's about unseating or keeping Bush.

I agree with the sentiment expressed. I shudder to think about the vitriol and animosity that will continue to exist after the election, no matter who wins.

[Chiwas]

Bump.


I don't think it is pointless to discuss politics in this section, althoug I understand the original reasons of this thread.

All the contrary, with this section I have known things that I hadn't known before, that I hadn't understood, or that I hadn't realized; I have made my points -when I have thought they are worth or when I needed to voice my opinion- and read many opinions from others. Also I have read valuable information posted from articles or the media.

I don't think that the non contributory or negative posts from myself or others impede the latter, even being too many, because I can disregard them.

But what it is really an outrage against the mentioned benefits, is the name calling and the insults towards some members who are trying to do the same that we all want, just to voice our opinions and to read and interpret those of others.

I can't understand why I have to hate the people who don't think like me, or who don't understand things -politics in this case- in the way I do.

Respect is the foundation of democracy. If we can't deal with that here, how could we demand democracy out there?

I think we can make this a very good section if we respect each other, and each other's point of view. After all, we will still be here dealing with other issues, and sharing them, like the Mavs or the twelli's thread, after the elections.

I can continue liking my friends, and other posters' posts, even if they think different than me. Moreover, thankfully they share their thoughts with me even when some or all of them are different than mine. But the condition is the mutual respect.

We can do it.


Edit. Disclaimer: I haven't been insulted in this section (at least I haven't noticed it). The comentary was mainly about the insults towards mavsdog, reeds, epitome and knowitall. And others if there have been.