STD (@#$show thread daily): Mavs suckage - Page 53 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

EricaLubarsky · 03-31-2024, 10:39 PM

Luka 35m

blessednegr0 · 03-31-2024, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I see fans scared of the Clippers. Hell no..bring that on.

Clippers aren't my ideal first matchup but I think we might be able to handle them with a healthy Lively.

Thespiralgoeson · 04-01-2024, 03:23 AM

I love the Mavs. That is all.

Zeus · 04-01-2024, 06:36 AM

Bring on the Clippers.

saclare · 04-01-2024, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

Bring on the Clippers.

But gimme dat home court advantage and 4th seed.

Side note, if the Mavs keep this up and Luka continues to dominate, his MVP candidacy would be at an all-time high IMO

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-01-2024, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

But gimme dat home court advantage and 4th seed.

Side note, if the Mavs keep this up and Luka continues to dominate, his MVP candidacy would be at an all-time high IMO

Luka is the MVP. You either live in reality or you're a hater of his game for little reason.

They'll give it someone less deserving, I'm sure.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-01-2024, 09:58 AM

Grant Afseth
@GrantAfseth
?
9h
The Dallas Mavericks are 11-1 in their previous 12 games, with Luka Doncic out for the only loss. During this span, they've ranked in the top 5 in offense and defense.

Offensive Rating: 119.5 (4th)
Defensive Rating: 107.1 (4th)
Net Rating: 12.4 (2nd)

Those are contender numbers, without a doubt.

EricaLubarsky · 04-01-2024, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Grant Afseth
@GrantAfseth
?
9h
The Dallas Mavericks are 11-1 in their previous 12 games, with Luka Doncic out for the only loss. During this span, they've ranked in the top 5 in offense and defense.

Offensive Rating: 119.5 (4th)
Defensive Rating: 107.1 (4th)
Net Rating: 12.4 (2nd)

Those are contender numbers, without a doubt.

Not a bad time to peak

It?s also crazy that our only ticking clock is Kyrie and he?s 32 with two more years under contract. Next year we could see a huge jump from Lively and consistent contributions from OMax. Rest of the team is early/mid twenties and under contract.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-01-2024, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Not a bad time to peak

It?s also crazy that our only ticking clock is Kyrie and he?s 32 with two more years under contract. Next year we could see a huge jump from Lively and consistent contributions from OMax. Rest of the team is early/mid twenties and under contract.

Yep, there are no FA heart attacks this summer. Could lose DJJ, but that's about it.

Melonhead · 04-01-2024, 10:30 AM

I hope we don?t lose DJJ, he?s a starter on this team with his athleticism and length defensively.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-01-2024, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I hope we don?t lose DJJ, he?s a starter on this team with his athleticism and length defensively.

Agreed, but that's why we have Omax. Same if we move THJ...we have Hardy.

GQ2003 · 04-01-2024, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Agreed, but that's why we have Omax. Same if we move THJ...we have Hardy.

I look at Omax as more of the eventual replacement for Maxi than DJJ although he could be used their too. Just thinking the young guys (Omax & Hardy) are here to replace those aging vets (Maxi & THJ).

Melonhead · 04-01-2024, 01:08 PM

You have to wonder if Jalen is going ?damn now I know how Luka felt when he had no help?.

Jalen 60 points, loss in OT to spurs
Jalen 30 points, loss a buzzer beater to okc.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-01-2024, 02:38 PM

Funny all these fans getting upset that Luka doesn't get respect.

LET THEM UNDERMINE US. That only works in our favor. Last thing I want is being favored for anything.

Nobody thought we'd be in the WCF in 2022.

Any objective person knows Luka is the MVP. But if he comes in 5th or whatever, then that's just fuel baby. Bring it.

saclare · 04-01-2024, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Luka is the MVP. You either live in reality or you're a hater of his game for little reason.

They'll give it someone less deserving, I'm sure.

Nikola Jokic exists. That's why Luka isn't near unanimous. I still think he is, but I would totally understand another vote in Joker's direction.

That's reality.

Thespiralgoeson · 04-01-2024, 03:27 PM

I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion here but honestly... I think Jokic is the MVP. Luka is a very, very, very close second. But team success weighs very heavily for the award, and the Nuggets have been considerably better than the Mavs. If we had made the trades for Gafford and PJ at the beginning of the season instead of the trade deadline and had been this good all year, Luka would not only be MVP, he'd probably be the unanimous MVP. But the Mavs were mediocre almost all year, and while that isn't Luka's fault, that's just how it works. Winning MVP, just like winning a championship, requires a bit of good luck, on top of just being good. Just look at Embiid. He was the overwhelming favorite to win his 2nd straight, but then he got hurt. Bad luck.

On top of the team success factor, advanced stats favor Jokic over Luka too, albeit not by much. PER, win shares, value over replacement, box +/-, Jokic leads the league in all of them. Jokic is the best player in the world right now. Luka is a very close 2nd.

All that being said, if I was gambling man, I'd bet good money that Luka will be MVP next year. A: because the Mavs are way better, barring injury disaster, will win a lot more games next year. B: because Luka technically isn't even in his prime yet and is just now entering it, which is absolutely insane to think about, and C: because for lack of a better word, it's Luka's "turn." Last year was Embiid's turn, even though Jokic probably deserved to win it yet again, but I think there was voter fatigue for Jokic, and they really, really wanted to give it to Embiid. They want to give it to Luka too, but the Mavs just haven't been good enough yet. If the Mavs win 55 or so games next year, which I think is a very safe bet, Luka is a lock for MVP.

Melonhead · 04-01-2024, 03:53 PM

My only gripe with the mvp is that prior history DOES play a factor, regardless what people say. Luka has been doing it since day 1, and having his best season. His stats are insane at 34ppg 9/9. I would t be mad at Jokic winning. I expect him to.

So to my actual gripe: sga getting boosted when he hasn?t done a damn thing prior to this season.

Thespiralgoeson · 04-01-2024, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

My only gripe with the mvp is that prior history DOES play a factor, regardless what people say. Luka has been doing it since day 1, and having his best season. His stats are insane at 34ppg 9/9. I would t be mad at Jokic winning. I expect him to.

So to my actual gripe: sga getting boosted when he hasn?t done a damn thing prior to this season.

I'm not sure I understand or agree. SGA was 1st team all-nba last year.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-01-2024, 04:48 PM

Yeah, fine Jokic, but SGA or anyone else is a joke.

SMC0007 · 04-01-2024, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Luka is the MVP. You either live in reality or you're a hater of his game for little reason.

They'll give it someone less deserving, I'm sure.

This!

Jokic is fn badass. However, Luka is a bit above. He has been dragging this team through stretches of mediocre basketball. No one talks about this aspect, but he (and the team) has made Kyrie look like a kid again, enjoying the game and winning. Credit should go to Kyrie as well for realizing that this is Lukas team and he slid in next to him and showed patience while carving out a role. Those two were what each other needed, imo.

My concern was that Luka and Kai werent going to be good enough defensively...and it still has to be proven when a team has more time to game plan against them. But the crow tastes fine atm. Gafford and PJ were about as good as you could possibly do aside from swapping Kawhi or PG3 for PJ. He doesnt need the ball to make an impact and always gets back to defend. They make Luka and Kai starting together more than passable.

If Luka somehow doesnt win MVP, we are absolutely not dealing in reality, but instead more of b ball politics. If he doesnt win this year, you have to winder what kind of numbers a player has to average across the board to overcome these shenanigans. I wouldnt be surprised if he gets overlooked by Jokic and maybe even SGA then they shoehorn him in next season with lesser stats.

Its odd that no one can really point at any consistent benchmarks/categories to win MVP.

SMC0007 · 04-01-2024, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion here but honestly... I think Jokic is the MVP. Luka is a very, very, very close second. But team success weighs very heavily for the award, and the Nuggets have been considerably better than the Mavs. If we had made the trades for Gafford and PJ at the beginning of the season instead of the trade deadline and had been this good all year, Luka would not only be MVP, he'd probably be the unanimous MVP. But the Mavs were mediocre almost all year, and while that isn't Luka's fault, that's just how it works. Winning MVP, just like winning a championship, requires a bit of good luck, on top of just being good. Just look at Embiid. He was the overwhelming favorite to win his 2nd straight, but then he got hurt. Bad luck.

On top of the team success factor, advanced stats favor Jokic over Luka too, albeit not by much. PER, win shares, value over replacement, box +/-, Jokic leads the league in all of them. Jokic is the best player in the world right now. Luka is a very close 2nd.

All that being said, if I was gambling man, I'd bet good money that Luka will be MVP next year. A: because the Mavs are way better, barring injury disaster, will win a lot more games next year. B: because Luka technically isn't even in his prime yet and is just now entering it, which is absolutely insane to think about, and C: because for lack of a better word, it's Luka's "turn." Last year was Embiid's turn, even though Jokic probably deserved to win it yet again, but I think there was voter fatigue for Jokic, and they really, really wanted to give it to Embiid. They want to give it to Luka too, but the Mavs just haven't been good enough yet. If the Mavs win 55 or so games next year, which I think is a very safe bet, Luka is a lock for MVP.

Its confusing how a better team or better record equates to more MVP points. Denver has had a better team and is again this season. By default, Jokic is going to look good because He has better teammates.

Jokic stats arent better than Luka so it would have to be that having a better supporting cast more than makes up the difference in averages/stats/30pt HALVES etc. I dont personally think its MVTeam, its MVPlayer. For me, i give the most weight to whos team falls apart more if they are removed + stats.

If Luka doesnt win MVP when he shoukd be winning it, I hope we curb stomp Denver and Okc in the POs.

Thespiralgoeson · 04-01-2024, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

This!

Jokic is fn badass. However, Luka is a bit above. He has been dragging this team through stretches of mediocre basketball. No one talks about this aspect, but he (and the team) has made Kyrie look like a kid again, enjoying the game and winning. Credit should go to Kyrie as well for realizing that this is Lukas team and he slid in next to him and showed patience while carving out a role. Those two were what each other needed, imo.

My concern was that Luka and Kai werent going to be good enough defensively...and it still has to be proven when a team has more time to game plan against them. But the crow tastes fine atm. Gafford and PJ were about as good as you could possibly do aside from swapping Kawhi or PG3 for PJ. He doesnt need the ball to make an impact and always gets back to defend. They make Luka and Kai starting together more than passable.

If Luka somehow doesnt win MVP, we are absolutely not dealing in reality, but instead more of b ball politics. If he doesnt win this year, you have to winder what kind of numbers a player has to average across the board to overcome these shenanigans. I wouldnt be surprised if he gets overlooked by Jokic and maybe even SGA then they shoehorn him in next season with lesser stats.

Its odd that no one can really point at any consistent benchmarks/categories to win MVP.

I'm just going on what typically wins the award. It is not and never has been an award simply for the best player. It's sort of a best-player-on-the-best-team award. The award almost always goes to a player whos team is at or near the top of the standings. If you really think Luka should win it, you're leaning heavily on the Russell Westbrook model- a lot of people, myself included, thought Harden should have been MVP that year.

And again, as much as my heart says Luka, the advanced stats still favor Jokic over Luka. Only by a little, but still. As mindbogglingly awesome as Luka is right now, I do think Jokic is just a tiny bit even more awesome.

Thespiralgoeson · 04-01-2024, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Its confusing how a better team or better record equates to more MVP points. Denver has had a better team and is again this season. By default, Jokic is going to look good because He has better teammates.

That's just what the criteria for the award has always been. I don't know why. If it wasn't, Lebron would have had like 8 or 9 MVPs and Kobe probably would have had like 5 or 6.

Quote:

Jokic stats arent better than Luka so it would have to be that having a better supporting cast more than makes up the difference in averages/stats/30pt HALVES etc. I dont personally think its MVTeam, its MVPlayer. For me, i give the most weight to whos team falls apart more if they are removed + stats.

Eh, I mean, they're close enough that it's subjective, but honestly I think Jokic's stats actually are a little bit better. At the very least they're just as good.

Luka- 34ppg 9.1 rpg 9.8 apg 48.9FG% 38% 3pt 78.2 FT%

Jokic- 26.1 ppg 12.3 rpg 9.0 apg 57.9 FG% 34.6 3pt 82.3 FT%

And I don't think it's being acknowledged or appreciated that Jokic leads the league in virtually every single advanced metric. PER, VORP, WS, WS/48, BPM- Jokic leads the league in ALL OF THEM. Seriously, that is f**king incredible. None of this is any criticism of Luka whatsoever. It's just pointing out how otherworldly f**king awesome Jokic is right now. Honestly, at this moment in time, I'd put Jokic up against any bigman I've seen in my lifetime. Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, anyone. Jokic is at least as good as any of them, honestly maybe even better. Not on his whole career mind you, but at this moment. Jokic is that f**king good.

Luka will definitely win at least one MVP, probably more. But it probably won't happen this year, and that's fine. No bias, no agenda, Jokic just actually does deserve it.

Quote:

I hope we curb stomp Denver and Okc in the POs.

I'll drink to that!

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-01-2024, 07:39 PM

Luka would prefer a ring. So would I.

Oh, and he isn't on the injury list anymore..(knock on wood).

Thespiralgoeson · 04-01-2024, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Luka would prefer a ring. So would I.

Oh, and he isn't on the injury list anymore..(knock on wood).

Me three.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-01-2024, 08:10 PM

Gafford gets all the love, but PJ has been the real deal on defense. I was super skeptical of that trade and wasn't a huge fan, but what he does doesn't come through the box score. He can basically guard 1-5 on a good night and his recovery is top notch.

But it's his ability to read switches which is near elite level.

Thespiralgoeson · 04-01-2024, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Gafford gets all the love, but PJ has been the real deal on defense. I was super skeptical of that trade and wasn't a huge fan, but what he does doesn't come through the box score. He can basically guard 1-5 on a good night and his recovery is top notch.

But it's his ability to read switches which is near elite level.

His defense is legit. On r/Mavericks, everyone calls him PJail. Presumably because being guarded by PJ is akin to being imprisoned. Not the best nickname, but it makes me smile.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-01-2024, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

His defense is legit. On r/Mavericks, everyone calls him PJail. Presumably because being guarded by PJ is akin to being imprisoned. Not the best nickname, but it makes me smile.

I don't know about being a lockdown defender as those are kinda a thing of the past, but overall his defense has been an A for this team.

Dallas41 · 04-02-2024, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I hope we don?t lose DJJ, he?s a starter on this team with his athleticism and length defensively.

He's an underrated player for this team

He reminds me of the role Deshaun Stevenson played but he's more athletic version of him.

dirt_dobber · 04-02-2024, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

He's an underrated player for this team

He reminds me of the role Deshaun Stevenson played but he's more athletic version of him.

Agree. I really like him as well and how he plays above the rim.
Could Omax play the same roll for us next year?

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-02-2024, 11:18 AM

Saw that report of OG Anunoby possibly commanding 4/150. 37.5 mil a year versus PJ Washington who is 15 mil.

That's smart front officing.

EricaLubarsky · 04-02-2024, 11:24 AM

My opinion? If we can make it out of the first round (and maybe either way), we try to snag DJJ cheap and start him with OMax backing him up like we're doing with Gafford/Lively. Maybe the year after Omax starts and DJJ backs him, etc. If someone offers him more than the MLE? That would be a tougher call.

If he goes? It's only 25min we're missing. I think his minutes could be made up
PJ goes from 30 to 35mpg (5min) at 3/4
If Green can stay healthy, he was getting 27mpg at the 2/3
OMax should be able to get 5-10 at 3/4

Melonhead · 04-02-2024, 01:57 PM

Lively did not participate today.

EricaLubarsky · 04-02-2024, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Lively did not participate today.

Oof. We need his mobility. Gafford is dominant inside, but has trouble when he has to get outside to the three.

Hoping for a good game from Kleber. Otherwise we might need some DJJ/PJail smallball 5.