Vince Carter rumor

[uberfan]

The difference between KT and Walker is that KT plays better defense on other PF/C in the East.

However, all things considered Walker is far better player than KT for the Mavs IF the only option is essentially Walker for KT + filler (VC not filler).

I like Finley, but if you can move Finley in a deal that ends up bringing VC here then I am for it because you are getting younger. Then, if you get a great year out of VC, he has a far more tradeable contract because of his age.

[V2M]

We need solid role players at 5 and may be at 1. But let's not pusue any highly overrated (not to mention overpaid), disgruntled superstar 2 or a 3 who can't play defense.

[endtroducing]

dallas needs to get a 3 to move fin back to guard. I think you could get carter for walker and a scrub (best, or one of the point guards)...it's not shaq we're dealing with, here. if you ask me, this line-up isn't very bad:

daniels - 1
finley - 2
carter - 3
dirk - 4
bradley - 5

with no more good centers in the west (except for yao), I don't see why dallas couldn't win 60 games with that line-up...howard and stack off the bench, and harris coming in for daniels, blah blah...won't happen, but it looks good to me.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: endtroducing
dallas needs to get a 3 to move fin back to guard. I think you could get carter for walker and a scrub (best, or one of the point guards)...it's not shaq we're dealing with, here. if you ask me, this line-up isn't very bad:

daniels - 1
finley - 2
carter - 3
dirk - 4
bradley - 5

with no more good centers in the west (except for yao), I don't see why dallas couldn't win 60 games with that line-up...howard and stack off the bench, and harris coming in for daniels, blah blah...won't happen, but it looks good to me.

You still suck at the 5 position. That is what this offseason is all about. Getting a REAL 5 in here. Bradley just isn't gonna cut it.

[endtroducing]

bradley's serviceable...plus, going against the likes of jake voshkul and brian grant next year will greatly help...they could still deal guys even after that, with stack and laettner sitting there.

[Bookit]

I would like to defer to the "Maverick's Creed" from last year:

“The Mavs organization will never draft or trade for a player that doesn’t excel at defense. We don’t care how well they excel at offense. If they don’t play great defense, they won’t put on a Mavs uniform.”


Sincerly

Mavs Management


I would have to say that Vince Carter doesn't even remotely fit with what the Mavs are trying to do. I am going to have to agree with Dooby on this. This trade makes me sick. Trade Walker for somebody else!!

[grndmstr_c]

Sorry, but if you have an opportunity to get a player like VC cheap you take it. It's amazing to me how out of favor he's fallen in the eyes of many, but just because the guy's a victim of his own hype doesn't mean he can't play, and bottom line is that he absolutely can play. Whether you're looking at traditional stats or +/- ratings he comes out golden, and he would instantly become the second best player on the team besides Dirk, regardless of who was dealt to get him. I'll willingly grant he's not what the team needs, but as madape has been arguing, you don't look a gift horse in the mouth, and if Dallas has an opportunity to get Vince in a deal that's a win talent-wise (and I'd argue there are quite a few scenarios that would fit this criteria) they would be fools to pass it up.

That said, this is probably all BS.

[Bookit]

Ok, Walker for Vince strait up, yes, go for it. If you have to throw in Howard forget it.

[V]

Backgrounder...

January 2004

Photo shoot over, Vince Carter is bundling up for the frigid Toronto air this mid-January afternoon when he notices some Polaroids on the studio's blond-wood table. They're all of him, a rough draft of what the photographer had in mind. One in particular stops him. Staring out is a preview of when his playing days are long over, dim light and shadows conspiring to make Carter appear twice his about-to-turn 27 years. And the smile is not his trademark toothy, 500-watt version, but a weary old-man-on-a-park-bench grin. It's no stretch to imagine slippered feet and a slight paunch below the photo's bottom frame. Half-man, half-a-grazing.

Carter isn't ready to hang 'em up yet, of course. He still toys with the idea of entering one more dunk contest, firm in the belief he has a few more aerial wonders to perform. Nor has he abandoned the idea of winning a ring. But having already been feted as the Next Coming, and subsequently dismissed as the Latest Disappointment, he'll work off his own definition of success from here on out, thank you very much. It's a definition that includes walking in his college graduation in Chapel Hill. And getting engaged to his college sweetheart, former Tar Heels cheerleader Ellen Rucker. And having kids and being able to play with them, pain-free.
And it includes loving that he gets to play basketball for a living.
Here's what it doesn't include: going for a few more dunks if it means risking his knees, or a few more wins if it means playing in pain, or declaring his team's superiority and then backing it up. Because he's tried all that. Playing hurt only earned him ridicule, and a bad right knee that came out of favoring the left one, and then a bad left ankle from favoring the right knee. Speaking up made him look foolish, because the Raptors didn't back up his playoff vow two years ago until after Vince called it a season and underwent knee surgery. And none of it got him closer to a ring.
"You can spend the rest of your life trying to please everybody and forget about who you are," Carter says. "But it's a conflict of interests. You start to worry about the wrong thing, and then you lose focus of the big picture, which is playing basketball. I have this job because of what I can do, and I'm going to do it. If you don't like it, I'm sorry. I hope you change your mind."
Then again, maybe you're one of those who made him the top All-Star vote-getter for the fourth time in five years (Kobe was tops in '03). That's a level of popularity attained only twice before, by Dr. J and Michael Jordan. Fans don't seem to care that he's four years removed from winning the 2000 dunk contest and nearly three away from that epic playoff battle of 50-point performances with Allen Iverson. Or that he has no championship ring or scoring title. Maybe it's because he has no arrest record or illegitimate children, either.
"I'm trying to figure it out like everyone else," he says of his All-Star reign. "To me, popular is Allen Iverson. He's the guy I'd expect to lead in votes. I don't know the how and why, but I smile every night when I think about it."
There are others who don't understand it either, only it doesn't tickle them nearly as much. For a middle-of-the-pack team in the East, Carter's next-MJ talent provides the Raptors with an edge that can put them over the top on any given night. But Carter can't be counted on to put his team on his shoulders. Every possession in the rugged East is as much a chance to wear down the opponent or draw a foul as it is to score a stylish two points. Carter can play that style, and often does, just not always, which may explain why the Raptors have hovered around .500 all season. With Toronto's fate riding on how much Vinsanity rules, it can drive a coach or teammate crazy when he appears to downshift, even for a quarter.
Case in point: the Raptors are in Detroit on a Wednesday night in January to face a Pistons team that had won nine in a row, including the last three by an average of 16 points. Vince is in attack mode tonight, which means the Pistons can't stop him. He hits three lay-ups, a pair of driving midrange jumpers and five of seven free throws to carry the Raptors to an 11-point halftime lead.
And then someone else comes out of the dressing room wearing No.15 for the second half. His third-quarter approach consists of off-the-dribble fadeaway jumpers fired early in the shot clock from just inside the arc. If there's a holy trinity of don'ts in the NBA, that's it. The Pistons roar back. For each VC fling, Toronto coach Kevin O'Neill has a different response. There's the tortured snarl, the pirouette, the head-and-shoulder slump. He gestures to head athletic therapist Chuck Mooney to include the last misfire in the next day's tape session. Finally, O'Neill outright pleads: "Vince, listen to me, drive it!"
By now, the Raptors' lead is gone, and it's a seesaw game. The real VC makes some cameos. When he attacks, the Pistons send him to the line or double-team him, and when they do he finds an open teammate. Just like that, the Raptors are ahead again. But when he relies on his jumper, Detroit invariably scores off the long rebound. During a timeout with just under two minutes left, Milt Palacio, Toronto's backup guard, says, "Vince, you've got to drive." Carter responds, "There's nowhere to go!"
Despite the protest, he tries, and is rewarded with two buckets in the paint. But it's too late. Detroit holds on, 95-91.
Neither the process nor the outcome matters to Debbie Bjorgaard and her 11-year-old son, David, sitting six rows behind the Pistons bench. Tonight's tickets are a gift from mother to son Carter is his favorite player. David is easy to spot among the sea of Pistons fans; he's the one wearing the No.15 Raptors jersey. "It's one of the jerseys I can let my son wear," Debbie says. "He has Kobe's, too, but we've had to put that away."
This is the type of respect Carter craves. And he's even beginning to get it from his current teammates, who are learning to appreciate the way Carter conducts himself. At least he no longer hears that he lacks leadership skills, a frequent refrain from one-season wonders like Keon Clark and over-the-hill veterans like Antonio Davis. (Clark left as a free agent two years ago; Davis is now in Chicago.) Newcomers Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall are more than happy to share the load with Carter. "When you play against him, you're just worried about his scoring," Rose says. "But he can also dribble, pass and shoot. And I've found out he's a good teammate. He doesn't consider this a one-man show."
Of course, Carter's skills have always been above reproach. It's his heart that's been suspect. The night after the Pistons loss, the Raptors are in New Orleans. Carter takes off for a dunk but comes up short and lands out of bounds, clutching his right knee. No one on Toronto shows any concern. Even when he's helped to the bench, and then to the locker room, the Raptors go on, business as usual. Morris Peterson, meanwhile, limps around on an ankle that had him on crutches the night before, logging 39 indispensable minutes in a 78-74 overtime win. "Soldiers don't sit," he says later.
That works for O'Neill, who has hung a "MEN WORKING" sign on the door leading to the Raptors' practice court. But publicly, O'Neill accepts that his star doesn't have a hard-hat mentality. "I just see him as a young player who is still developing," O'Neill says. "The burden of a star can sometimes be overwhelming. Everyone expects you to come through every time. You can't."
Carter understands that now. More than that, he's comfortable with it. It doesn't hurt that expectations have slipped. The Raptors, once dark-horse title contenders, will be lucky to make the playoffs. Carter, the leading scorer on the gold medal-winning 2000 Olympic team, was a prequalifying fill-in last summer for the 2004 squad. His jersey is still a top-20 seller, but it was once one of the top two. Though he still has a signature Nike shoe, LeBron is now clearly the center of Nike's basketball universe. "This is a great position to be in," Carter says. "I don't have to be considered the best player, I don't have to be the most popular. Being in the middle is great for me."
Heretical as it sounds, Carter will no longer buy into the play-like-there-is-no-tomorrow credo. Play hard? Sure. Chase a title? Super. Destroy your body and forfeit the pleasures of a normal life for the sake of winning, when there's no guarantee that will be enough? No thanks. "The thinking with the doctors and teams is to get you healthy and back on the court," says Michelle Carter, his mother and business manager. "But the great misnomer is 'healthy.' They patch you up. I tell Vince to listen to his body. You're Vince, I say, not invincible."
It would be easier to convince the Carters that their priorities are out of whack had Vince not been so electric for Team USA in Puerto Rico. After taking the entire summer off to rest his surgically repaired knees and gimpy left ankle, he was the VC of old. So when he began the regular season cracking off three 30-plus games in the first seven, the great expectations returned. His average field goal attempts, up from 21st to eighth in the league, and free throws per game, up from 57th to 16th, suggest he's being more aggressive than last season. If the Raptors haven't scared anyone yet, it may have as much to do with adjusting to a new defensive system and a sideline full of injuries (to Palacio, rookie sensation Chris Bosh and Michael Curry) as with Carter's performance.
It's possible the source of Carter's All-Star popularity is selfishness. Maybe the masses think that, by making sure he's around All-Star Weekend, there is at least the chance of getting another demonstration like the one that earned him the half-man, half-amazing tag. They want to see him hang from the rim by his elbow after jamming the ball with his entire arm inside the basket, as he did at the 2000 dunk contest. Could it be that in Carter's case, the promise of style has trumped the potential of substance?
"If you're starting a team, there are probably eight or nine guys you'd take ahead of him," Rockets GM Carroll Dawson says. "But this is a league where athletic ability has moved to the forefront. You come to watch people do what you can only dream about. And he does that, maybe better than anybody."
Mom prefers the new Vince precisely because she wants him able to do what everybody else can. She sees Raptors GM Glen Grunwald hobbling around on a bad knee, injured after his playing days at Indiana U. were over, and pities him because he can't play with his 18-month-old son. She sees a different future for her own son. "I don't want him to live for this moment," she says. "I want him to live for a moment in 2012."
Similarly, forfeiting a few hours of rest before the seventh game of the 2001 Eastern Conference semifinals to walk in his graduation ceremony remains, to this day, a no-brainer.
"I wouldn't trade seeing him come down the stairs in his gown for all the money in the mint," Mrs. Carter says. And whatever his scoring average, she doesn't think it can match the value of Vince personally answering e-mails submitted to his website every few weeks.
"A lot of people take a guy being genuine and humble for being soft," Rose says. "That's a mistake. A lot of people want the things he has, and I like the way he handles them with humility."
Funny how stuff like that can still matter. Djanka, the studio manager at the photo shoot, knows nothing about basketball, but she too has an opinion about Carter. "That face," she says sharply, jabbing at the Polaroids, "will sell a lot of magazines. You know why? Sincerity. If you've been around this business for a while, you know what sells. People look at the eyes. They know a good soul when they see one."
"That," she says, finger poised to squash Carter's mug again, "is a good soul."
This article appears in the Mar. 01 issue of ESPN The Magazine.

[madape]

Originally posted by: Bookit
Ok, Walker for Vince strait up, yes, go for it. If you have to throw in Howard forget it.

This kind of comment amazes me. As much as Maverick fans underrate the ability of star players on other teams (i.e. Vince Carter), they even more so OVERRATE supporting players on their own team. Josh Howard is a nice player. But if he ever develops into a player worthy of licking Vince Carter's jock strap, I'll be first in line to eat my own hat. Carter is a superstar. He's probably the third best swingman in the game behind Kobe and McGrady. Josh Howard is the fourth best swingman on this team. Again, I like him. He'll be a nice role player for this team for a long time if he sticks around. But will he ever be a superstar? Will he ever be an all-star? What is his real potential? I think it's more along the lines of James Posey than it is Vince Carter. Let's get real people. Vince Carter is a supertar. You don't turn down a deal that will basically give you a superstar for nothing, simply because you want to keep your overrated backup small forward. Howard IS NOT VINCE CARTER. He is NOT THE FUTURE OF THIS FRANCHISE. Let's stop this insanity right now and come back to reality. Carter for Walker and Howard is a no brainer... meaning only a person with no brain would turn it down.

[Just211]

i agree ape. for the main reason that if it's VC coming for Walk and JHO, then Carter would eat all the PT JHO would get anyways

[kg_veteran]

Carter for Walker and Howard is a no brainer... meaning only a person with no brain would turn it down.

I can't really disagree with this, except that it leaves you in a position where now you're trying to turn Finley and Stackhouse into a big guy instead of Walker and Stackhouse.

Again, if you could supplement a deal like this with a trade of Stackhouse and Najera for K. Thomas and Mutombo, I'd be down with it.

If you could likewise turn Laettner into Payton, I'd REALLY be down with it.

A rotation of Mutombo/Bradley/K. Thomas/Laettner at center, Dirk/K. Thomas at PF, Carter/Finley/Daniels at the swing positions, and Payton/Harris at PG, well, that'd be pretty damn good.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

I can't really disagree with this, except that it leaves you in a position where now you're trying to turn Finley and Stackhouse into a big guy instead of Walker and Stackhouse.

Again, if you could supplement a deal like this with a trade of Stackhouse and Najera for K. Thomas and Mutombo, I'd be down with it.

If you could likewise turn Laettner into Payton, I'd REALLY be down with it.

A rotation of Mutombo/Bradley/K. Thomas/Laettner at center, Dirk/K. Thomas at PF, Carter/Finley/Daniels at the swing positions, and Payton/Harris at PG, well, that'd be pretty damn good.

You're right KG. Vince for Howard and Walker is a no brainer when you look at it purely from a talent standpoint. However, at some point, you have to address the needs of the team. So unless the Mavs have a secondary move in place to address the center situation, it might be in the Mavs best interest to hold off moving Walker for Carter. Walker is the Mavs biggest asset. They have to make sure that their expiring contract assets turn into a center. If this means holding on to Walker until the trading deadline, so be it.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

If Vince Carter comes with a center, I'm game. If he comes alone, forget it. We would probably have to give up Finley though, and breaking up 2 of the big 3 would really hurt the mavs moral this coming season. I think this is all BS anyway.

[madape]

I can't really disagree with this, except that it leaves you in a position where now you're trying to turn Finley and Stackhouse into a big guy instead of Walker and Stackhouse.

Again, if you could supplement a deal like this with a trade of Stackhouse and Najera for K. Thomas and Mutombo, I'd be down with it.

If you could likewise turn Laettner into Payton, I'd REALLY be down with it.

A rotation of Mutombo/Bradley/K. Thomas/Laettner at center, Dirk/K. Thomas at PF, Carter/Finley/Daniels at the swing positions, and Payton/Harris at PG, well, that'd be pretty damn good.

You have a lot more weapons than just Stackhouse and Finley to go after a big man. We still have a ton of talent on our bench and some cap friendly contracts to throw at people. Plus, I don't see why you would need to move BOTH Finley and Stackhouse. You need two swingmen on the floor at all times, don't you? Whether it's Carter and Finley or Carter and Stackhouse, it doesn't matter. Both are devistatingly good combinations. Dump one in a deal for a big man and rake in the wins. I think Daniels plays point here. He wants to play the position. The Mavs need him to play there. A backcourt of Daniels, Finley and Carter will be a nightmare for our opponents.. a bloody, masacre of a nightmare.

If we can move Stackhouse for Kurt Thomas, we'd have a servicable defense-oriented big man to play along side Dirk. A rotation of Bradley and Thomas would do wonders for our defense and rebounding. If we can somehow manage to steal Ilgauskas away from Cleveland, then we'd have a starting lineup with all-stars at almost every position (again, f*ck you Nash). It's a real possibilty, and we shouldn't dismiss it because we are in love with our backup small forward.

[kg_veteran]

Murph - Agreed. VC deal + another deal to get a center makes a lot of sense. Otherwise, you've gotta hang on to Walker and turn him into a center.

Devin - If the Mavs could move out Finley and get back Vince Carter, they'd do it in a heartbeat. Of course, Toronto wouldn't.

[uberfan]

The problem with the Mavs having a secondary move in place is they often never materialize. Last year's one trade too many or one trade too few is a prime example. What about draft night this year? Supposedly Laettner and Stackhouse were being moved almost immediately and then that "secondary move" vanished.

[ddh33]

I can't believe how many people underrate Vince. He's a great guy, standup character, good player, well rounded, and can help any team. His injury problems have derailed a promising career, but I see no reason why he couldn't be completely successful if he had the proper amount of help. In Dallas he would have that.

I would also say that any trade with Toronto would most likely include both Stack and Howard, so let the glut of swing players arguments go for just a minute. If Vince can help this team, you look at...and he can.

I don't know whether any of this will happen. I'm always skeptical, but it's silly to not ask.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: madape

You have a lot more weapons than just Stackhouse and Finley to go after a big man. We still have a ton of talent on our bench and a some cap friendly contracts to throw at people. Plus, I don't see why you would need to move BOTH Finley and Stackhouse. You need two swingmen on the floor at all times, don't you? Whether it's Carter and Finley or Carter and Stackhouse, it doesn't matter. Both are devistatingly good combinations. I think Daniels plays point here. He wants to play the position. The Mavs need him to play there. A backcourt of Daniels, Finley and Carter will be a nightmare for our opponents.

If we can move Stackhouse for Kurt Thomas, we'd have a servicable defense-oriented big man to play along side Dirk. A rotation of Bradley and Thomas would do wonders for our defense and rebounding. If we can somehow manage to steal Ilgauskas away from Cleveland, then we'd have a starting lineup with all-stars at almost every position (again, f*ck you Nash). It's a real possibilty, and we shouldn't dismiss it because we are in love with our backup small forward.

It sounds like we agree. Get me even Kurt Thomas in the package, and I'm ready to go.

[mavsman55]

Honest to god, how many scorers do we need on this team? I'm not sure if Carter would be able to adapt to not being the best player on the team if he came. He's been the best on his team for 6 yeras in Toronto. Him coming here for Walker and JHO is an absolute steal, but you have to take into consideration what kind of effect he'll have on this team. He plays no D, which is nothing new for the mavs. He shoots a much higher percentage than Walker... I'm just afraid that if we get stuck with him for the next few years, we'll have a Shaq/Kobe kind of situation going on with Dirk and Carter.

I'm all for this deal as long as Carter realizes he's not going to be the star of the team any more.

[uberfan]

1. Howard is our back up SF because we have to find a place for Fin on the court if Daniels starts at SG.
2. Is everyone suggesting that Carter is now suddenly healthier and will be on the court 90% of the time, or will his injuries continue to get worse?

3. No trades can be made with Stack or Laettner in combination with other players until August 24 (?). Is everyone suggesting that we have an agreement in principle to trade with 3 to 4 teams that will be put on hold 5 more weeks?

4. What indication has there been from anywhere (besides fans posting on boards) that Toronto would want to do a Carter for Walker/Howard trade in the first place? Just to clear cap space? They can do that in many other deals. If all Howard is, as some suggest, a nice role player and only the 3-4 best swingman on the Mavs, why would Toronto value him so much that they would do Walker/Howard just to dump Carter and his contract? For example, don't you think Cleveland would send them Z + for Carter just as fast as we would send Walker/Howard? After all,with Bosh and Donyell, Toronto is OK at PF and wouldn't need Walker. Z fills a need for them, too.

Can't wait until tommorrow to see which of those hand-shake deals get put on paper.

[Stressboy]

Madeape,

I agree from the standpoint of Vince being the better player right now, but I really don't know if for Howard will not be the better player on this Mavs squad. The reason I say this is that Howard has a rare ability for a SF to rebound at a really high level. If he gets 30-35 minutes a night this year, I think he will push 12/9. Of course that depends on how he plays within himself.

Is it better for the Mavs to have a 12/9 guy at SF or a 22/5 guy that is taking shots from Dirk?

As long as we don't get a guaranteed 12+ rebounds a game from the center spot then I think Howard is the better fit. Oh and Dirk has to get back to 10+ now that Jamison is gone.

Stressboy

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally posted by: Stressboy
Madeape,

I agree from the standpoint of Vince being the better player right now, but I really don't know if for Howard will not be the better player on this Mavs squad. The reason I say this is that Howard has a rare ability for a SF to rebound at a really high level. If he gets 30-35 minutes a night this year, I think he will push 12/9. Of course that depends on how he plays within himself.

Is it better for the Mavs to have a 12/9 guy at SF or a 22/5 guy that is taking shots from Dirk?

As long as we don't get a guaranteed 12+ rebounds a game from the center spot then I think Howard is the better fit. Oh and Dirk has to get back to 10+ now that Jamison is gone.

Stressboy

I agree completely about Howard Stress.....the problem is we have a logjam at the 2 and 3 spot. If we do poorly this upcoming season, you can bet that Cuban will try and move Finley as hard as he can (although probably with little luck do to contract) I would like to eventually see Harris, Daniels, Howard starting.....Man I love those guys. They are the next big three in my book. Once all three develop with Dirk and a devent center, watch out!

[V2M]

Madape - I don't think anyone's claiming that Howard's a better player than Carter. But he costs us $850K, rebounds and plays defense. Carter is a scorer, would cost us the max and probably isn't fully healthy yet from all his knee & ankle problems. True, if we hadn't a gaping hole at 5, we could have traded Walker for yet another scorer. But he's our trump card this off season and let's make sure we maximize on his deal by getting ourselves a center (Dampier would be nice!) and solidifying the interior.

Last year, during the waning minutes of any game our primary 5 on the floor were: Nash, Finley, Jamison, Walker and Dirk. All five of 'em known more for their offense. Wouldn't you agree we could have been better off with: Nash, Finley, Howard, Dirk and Bradley.
Basically replacing two offensive stars with two defensive role players, I'd say, we would've had a better team. That doesn't mean anyone would trade Jamison & Walker for Howard & Bradley straight up. That'd be foolish but the reality is sometimes "addition by subtraction" is very true in this league.

[Bookit]

Howard compliments the team with his defense and rebounding. Carter, on the other hand, just takes shots away from Dirk. I would like the Mavs to stick to their guns and finally form a defensive team who can also play good offense. Carter is another very good offensive player just like Jamison. But he doesn't excel at defense. We need guys who can rebound, play perimeter defense, play interior defense, create steals, and run the floor.

Yes, get rid of walker. But trade Walker for somebody defensive minded. Dirk is enough of a defensive liability for any starting five. Don't add another defensive liability.

[Mavs414]

I would do it come on i dont want walker on this team next year i would take carter he is good

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Nobody wants Walker, but you at least have to get a PF that plays defense for him or a point guard. Although I'm pretty high on Devin starting.

[LRB]

This trade for VC is horrible IMO. We're trading two of our biggest trading assets, Walkers humongous expiring contract and Howards huge bang for the buck contract, for an overpriced, injured, selfish, has been. I'll admit that VC still has a good deal of offensive talent, but that's the last thing that the Mavs need is more offensive talent. We need defense, rebounding, role play, can anyone really see VC being a role player? VC will not be easily traded because of his high and overpriced contract. At least with walker the salary bleeding goes away after the season. And while I agree that VC is overall more talented than Howard, Howard is much more talented in the areas that the Mavs need role playing help. VC is redundant skill set. We tried redundant offensive players last year with precious little D and we got our @$$es handed to us on a plate for the effort. Sure we might win around 50 games with VC and exit the playoffs in the 1st round. But hey we don't need a trade to do that. Better keep Howard, put Walker on the IR all year, and save cubes a bundle come next year.

[NewMexiMav]

To me, a move for VC reeks of marketing desperation. Gotta keep up with sales of McGrady jerseys down south.

I hope it's not true.

[jayC]

Nobody wants Walker yeah if your a mavs fan no one wants him. The Pacers are in love with him its a fact Larry Legend wants him, The knicks want him, numerous teams want him. The sixers would probably die to have Walker along with AI but it's not happening. I grow tired of hearing how Walker sucks, he is a bad fit here. Just like Vince would be a bad fit here. Get rid of Finley then maybe but otherwise let's concentrate on vet pg.

[Bookit]

Originally posted by: jayC
Nobody wants Walker yeah if your a mavs fan no one wants him. The Pacers are in love with him its a fact Larry Legend wants him, The knicks want him, numerous teams want him. The sixers would probably die to have Walker along with AI but it's not happening. I grow tired of hearing how Walker sucks, he is a bad fit here. Just like Vince would be a bad fit here. Get rid of Finley then maybe but otherwise let's concentrate on vet pg.

Walker would be a good fit here if he played about 20 minutes a game and all those minutes were played before the 4th quarter. Also, he should be earning around 3-4 million.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally posted by: Bookit

Walker would be a good fit here if he played about 20 minutes a game and all those minutes were played before the 4th quarter. Also, he should be earning around 3-4 million.

No, Walker would be terrible at 20 mpg. Why? He has one of the worst stats per 48 minutes in the league. If he played 20 minutes, he probably would get 8 points per game.

Anyways, I think the Knicks would rather have Walker then Iggy. I don't have proof of this but they need offense like we need defense. However, we need a center not a PF. That's the only way that I think that we would get carter, is if we got Iggy.

[jayC]

I like to think of things as glass half full. I am an optomist you my friend are a pessimist. As bad as Walker was he was better then Lafrentz, maybe not from a chemistry stand point but he simply out classes him. 48 minute stats mean crap, Fortson would be Dennis Rodman, Ben Wallace rolled into one if 48 minute stats meant anything.

[steponhens]

This would be a great trade for the Mav's. Vince Carter is a top five player at his position. He would improve the talent here and would add another dimension to the Mav's. If he came here he would be the second best player on the team. The teams with the best players win more games in the NBA.

Yes, JHo and Quis have the potential to be very good players, but lets remember that Quis played about thirty games last year. Lots of players play out of their minds when they are going to be a free agent. I want to see him do it again. Can someone please tell me what VC was like after his rookie season. He was compared to MJ. Quis and JHo were nowhere near that good last year. Sure Vince didn't live up to his hype, but many other rookies who have good seasons don't live up to their potential either, which is not even close to that of VC.

VC is a starter here who would be the second best player on the team. And you are getting that from Walker. Please tell me another player who you could get who fits that description from Walker, a player every team in the league knows the Mav's don't want.

[kg_veteran]

Apologies if this has already been posted. This was stolen from kjvirani at db.com...

XTRA Sports 690 and Hacksaw (Los Angeles) reporting the following deal as immenent (please take it with a grain of salt):

Toronto receives: Dampier
Dallas receives: Vince Carter
NY receives: Antoine Walker
Golden State receives: 2 picks, Kurt Thomas and Shandon Anderson.

More rampant speculation continues...


FWIW, this deal as stated doesn't work under the cap, but with some tweaking it would.

[Jeremiah]

...

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: steponhens
This would be a great trade for the Mav's. Vince Carter is a top five player at his position. He would improve the talent here and would add another dimension to the Mav's. If he came here he would be the second best player on the team. The teams with the best players win more games in the NBA.

Yes, JHo and Quis have the potential to be very good players, but lets remember that Quis played about thirty games last year. Lots of players play out of their minds when they are going to be a free agent. I want to see him do it again. Can someone please tell me what VC was like after his rookie season. He was compared to MJ. Quis and JHo were nowhere near that good last year. Sure Vince didn't live up to his hype, but many other rookies who have good seasons don't live up to their potential either, which is not even close to that of VC.

VC is a starter here who would be the second best player on the team. And you are getting that from Walker. Please tell me another player who you could get who fits that description from Walker, a player every team in the league knows the Mav's don't want.

Even without mentioning Quis, VC doesn't make enough sense for the Mavs don't have a center coming this way. The Mavs would still have Stack, Fin, and JHo at the 2/3 spots. Yes, Carter is talented, but Walker or someone on this roster has to be moved to make the Mavs stronger down low. Walker is the Mavs second most tradeable asset next to Dirk. It's obvious that the Mavs have no interest in moving him. So you have to make the most out of moving Walker.

[rakesh.s]

gotta veto this trade..will be a seat filler but the mavs haven't had any problems in that area in the last few years

carter doesn't add anything..he's softer than the players the mavs have now and he was shooting 40% last year

[Max Power]

I can't see any NEED for Carter. He might be an upgrade over the swing players we have now but it is not enough of an upgrade to give up our best chance of acquiring a center (Walker).

Sometimes the trade that you WIN and get the most talent is not the best trade for the team. Walker is a much more talented player than Raef and yet the trade did not help us because the fit was not there. If we give up Howard to get Carter then Carter will get his minutes but where is Vince going to get the OTHER minutes per night?

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: Max Power
I can't see any NEED for Carter. He might be an upgrade over the swing players we have now but it is not enough of an upgrade to give up our best chance of acquiring a center (Walker).

Sometimes the trade that you WIN and get the most talent is not the best trade for the team. Walker is a much more talented player than Raef and yet the trade did not help us because the fit was not there. If we give up Howard to get Carter then Carter will get his minutes but where is Vince going to get the OTHER minutes per night?

Ultra small ball

PG - Daniels
2G - Carter
SF - Finley
PF - Stack
C - Dirk