Barack Obama's 20 year preacher.

[dude1394]

So this is the guy that Barack got up for 20 years to go to church to hear, brought his wife and family, gave money to and cited him as an example for preachers everywhere. If McCain was in a KKK meeting for 20 years do you think it would be relevant??

– September 2001: “The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.”

– September 2001: “We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki. And we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye.”

– September 2001: “We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because of stuff we have done overseas is now brought back into our own backyard. America is chickens coming home to roost.”

– April 2003: “The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes three-strike laws and wants them to sing God Bless America. No! No No! God **** America … for killing innocent people. God **** America for threatening citizens as less than humans. God **** America as long as she tries to act like she is God and supreme.”

– December 2007: “Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich, white people. Hillary would never know that.”

– December 2007: “Hillary ain’t never been called a n***8r. Hillary has never had a people defined as a non-person.”

– Jan. 13, 2008: “Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill has been good to us. No he ain’t! Bill did us, just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.”

– “Fact number one: We’ve got more black men in prison than there are in college. … Fact number two: Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run.”

– “We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional killers. … We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. … We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. … We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means.
And … And … And! God! Has got! To be sick! Of this sh*t!”

[chumdawg]

God knows that if any of us ever run for office down the line, we'll be hearing about our associations on d-m.com. And why we didn't just up and leave when we heard that sort of rhetoric being spewed.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

God knows that if any of us ever run for office down the line, we'll be hearing about our associations on d-m.com. And why we didn't just up and leave when we heard that sort of rhetoric being spewed.

yeah, especially if we dedicate a book to some racist leader around here, and talk about how close we are.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

yeah, especially if we dedicate a book to some racist leader around here, and talk about how close we are.

And then try like hell to distance so no one would know what you really believe.

[Burn this City]

[rmacomic]

You're screaming because there's nothing left for you to SAY!

[dude1394]

I'm actually just kinda shocked that this guys is so virulent. This is the first time I've actually read his comments in total. For someone to go to this guys church for 20 years would seem to be a little bit of an issue for a president. Just me I guess.

[Usually Lurkin]

this is not the horse you are looking for.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

God knows that if any of us ever run for office down the line, we'll be hearing about our associations on d-m.com. And why we didn't just up and leave when we heard that sort of rhetoric being spewed.

That's about the dumbest thing to come out of your mouth in this political forum... and that's saying alot.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

So this is the guy that Barack got up for 20 years to go to church to hear, brought his wife and family, gave money to and cited him as an example for preachers everywhere. If McCain was in a KKK meeting for 20 years do you think it would be relevant??

there is absolutely no comparison between the views of wright and groups such as the kkk.

while I do not find the rantings of wright to be to my liking, they do reflect a view from someone who has been subjected to the racial discrimination and violence that existed in our country. these acts of violence against black americans are a fact, the discrimination is a fact. several of the items mentioned by wright are indeed true, while many are just his opinion and some are merely wrong.

if you want to take the position that you don't want to support barack obama because he went to a church run by this man, fine, that's your right.

if you want to say that barack obama is not fit to be president because he went to a church run by this man, you're being ridiculous.

[dude1394]

So does any association disqualify someone from holding office? I'm trying to find the limits of your latitude with respect to Obama.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

there is absolutely no comparison between the views of wright and groups such as the kkk.

while I do not find the rantings of wright to be to my liking, they do reflect a view from someone who has been subjected to the racial discrimination and violence that existed in our country. these acts of violence against black americans are a fact, the discrimination is a fact. several of the items mentioned by wright are indeed true, while many are just his opinion and some are merely wrong.

if you want to take the position that you don't want to support barack obama because he went to a church run by this man, fine, that's your right.

if you want to say that barack obama is not fit to be president because he went to a church run by this man, you're being ridiculous.

Don't making f'ing excuses for Wright. It makes you look pathetic.

[purplefrog]

Fact: Obama attends the church of Rev. Wright for 20 years.

Fact: Obama has called him his advisor and mentor.

Fact: Obama cuts ties with this guy as soon as his (Wright's) sermons become publicly known and Obama decides to run for President.

Fact: Obama has a pattern of behavior along these lines (Ayers, Rashid Khalid, Tony Rezko) to varying degrees.

Conclusion: Throughout his life Obama has been willing to associate with people who have questionable agendas as long as no one is really paying attention. This may mean one or more of the following:

1) He is very naive (e.g. he doesn't realize the questionable agendas until someone from the outside tells him).

2) He is willing to use people for political gain regardless of their background or agenda.

3) He has radical views consistent with these past relationships and is trying (successfully) to hide this.

4) He is just one of those people who seems to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

5) The media is being too harsh on Obama because most politicians have similar relationships.

Imo, the truth is probably some combination of #1 and #2, but I sincerely fear #3 is also partly true.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Don't making f'ing excuses for Wright. It makes you look pathetic.

the demonizing of wright does the same to you.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

So does any association disqualify someone from holding office? I'm trying to find the limits of your latitude with respect to Obama.

"any association"? sure. there are certainly associations that would be unacceptable.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

"any association"? sure. there are certainly associations that would be unacceptable.

I'm curious...where's the line in your opinion? Where would Obama cross the line iyo?

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

the demonizing of wright does the same to you.

No one has to "demonize" Jeremiah Wright. His own words do that.

while I do not find the rantings of wright to be to my liking

Wow, talk about moral equivocation. Not to your liking? In other words, they're not necessarily WRONG, just not to your liking?

Murph was right.

[Mavdog]

fact check..

Originally Posted by purplefrog

Fact: Obama attends the church of Rev. Wright for 20 years.

true

Fact: Obama has called him his advisor and mentor.

spiritual advisor and mentor, true

Fact: Obama cuts ties with this guy as soon as his (Wright's) sermons become publicly known and Obama decides to run for President.

first is true, he began his run for president over a year before he disassociated himself from wright.

Fact: Obama has a pattern of behavior along these lines (Ayers, Rashid Khalid, Tony Rezko) to varying degrees.

not a fact, his relationship with these 3 people is different for each one. while it is a fact khalid and obama have been friends and socialized (and obama has not "cut his ties" with him), that relationship is not shown to be true about ayers. there is even less of a relationship with rezko.

Conclusion: Throughout his life Obama has been willing to associate with people who have questionable agendas as long as no one is really paying attention. This may mean one or more of the following:

1) He is very naive (e.g. he doesn't realize the questionable agendas until someone from the outside tells him).

2) He is willing to use people for political gain regardless of their background or agenda.

3) He has radical views consistent with these past relationships and is trying (successfully) to hide this.

4) He is just one of those people who seems to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

5) The media is being too harsh on Obama because most politicians have similar relationships.

Imo, the truth is probably some combination of #1 and #2, but I sincerely fear #3 is also partly true.

he is not naive, he probably uses relationships for gain as much as anyone else does, these varied people have many varied views, some of which may be deemed "radical" while others are not, he isn't in the wrong place at the wrong time, and media scruntity comes with the territory.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

Fact: Obama attends the church of Rev. Wright for 20 years.

Fact: Obama has called him his advisor and mentor.

Fact: Obama cuts ties with this guy as soon as his (Wright's) sermons become publicly known and Obama decides to run for President.

Fact: Obama has a pattern of behavior along these lines (Ayers, Rashid Khalid, Tony Rezko) to varying degrees.

Conclusion: Throughout his life Obama has been willing to associate with people who have questionable agendas as long as no one is really paying attention. This may mean one or more of the following:

1) He is very naive (e.g. he doesn't realize the questionable agendas until someone from the outside tells him).

2) He is willing to use people for political gain regardless of their background or agenda.

3) He has radical views consistent with these past relationships and is trying (successfully) to hide this.

4) He is just one of those people who seems to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

5) The media is being too harsh on Obama because most politicians have similar relationships.

Imo, the truth is probably some combination of #1 and #2, but I sincerely fear #3 is also partly true.

It's No. 2 and 3.

[dude1394]

It's number 3. He's not using those people....his associations are because he agrees with them. You can say it's only on some level...but you do NOT go to a guys church for 20 years without agreeing with him on many levels.

You certainly do not hold him up as a standard unless you do.

He will also it appear do number 2, but that's not why he's been associated with them.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by dude1394

It's number 3. He's not using those people....his associations are because he agrees with them. You can say it's only on some level...but you do NOT go to a guys church for 20 years without agreeing with him on many levels.

You certainly do not hold him up as a standard unless you do.

He will also it appear do number 2, but that's not why he's been associated with them.

It is primarily number 3, but there's a bit of number 2 in the sense that he will (at least verbally) kick somebody to the curb and disassociate from them when it becomes politically inconvenient to remain associated with them.

You're correct about Wright. He said that Wright represents "the finest the black church has to offer." You don't say that about someone whose views you reject.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

No one has to "demonize" Jeremiah Wright. His own words do that.

wonderful that you have the power to decide what opinons have legitimacy and what are not. hey, who appointed you?

Wow, talk about moral equivocation. Not to your liking? In other words, they're not necessarily WRONG, just not to your liking?

Murph was right.

hmm. le't's see....

"importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional killers" check, it is true.
"We conducted radiation experiments on our own people" check, it's true
"We’ve got more black men in prison than there are in college" check, it's true
"Hillary ain’t never been called a n***8r. Hillary has never had a people defined as a non-person" hard to say, but it is more than likely that this is also true.
"We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki. And we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon..." check, it is true.

it is his conclusions from these facts that I disagree with.

it seems that the difference between you and I is that while I can disagree with a person who reaches conclusions that I object to, I can still respect their right to reach those conclusions. apparently you lack that ability and what to silence those who say things you object to.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I'm curious...where's the line in your opinion? Where would Obama cross the line iyo?

anyone who associates with criminals, those who do not uphold the law would be one.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

It's number 3. He's not using those people....his associations are because he agrees with them. You can say it's only on some level...but you do NOT go to a guys church for 20 years without agreeing with him on many levels.

You certainly do not hold him up as a standard unless you do.

He will also it appear do number 2, but that's not why he's been associated with them.

I tend to agree with you on Wright. The only way you can sit and listen to those sermons for 20+ years is if they resonate with your core beliefs.

I am not so sure about Obama's naivete or lack thereof. His willingness to sit down with our enemies without preconditions indicates naivete. His statements regarding Pakistan and OBL/Taliban also seem naive.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

wonderful that you have the power to decide what opinons have legitimacy and what are not. hey, who appointed you?

Keep on defending his opinions as "legitimate" if you want.

-- The United States Government created HIV as a means of genocide against people of color
Mavdog says: Legitimate

-- The United States bombed far more people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki than were killed in the 9/11 attacks, so it has no right complain about those attacks.
Mavdog says: Legitimate

-- The United States supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and the black South Africans, so we deserve the terrorist attacks of 9/11.
Mavdog says: Legitimate

-- The United States government gave black people drugs and then passed three strike laws, all for the purpose of oppressing black people.
Mavdog says: Legitimate

-- We have more black men in prison than in college, because the United States government is racist.
Mavdog says: Legitimate

it seems that the difference between you and I is that while I can disagree with a person who reaches conclusions that I object to, I can still respect their right to reach those conclusions. apparently you lack that ability and what to silence those who say things you object to.

Honestly, I don't know where you came up with this nonsense. He can believe whatever he wants, and he can say whatever he wants. As bad as he thinks this country is, it is one of the liberties afforded him in the United States by our Constitution. I never said that he should be silenced.

What I did say, however, is that his own words demonize him. No one has to make him out to be a radical, virulent hateful person. His own words fairly characterize him as such.

And the question is, "Why would Barack Obama turn to a hate-monger like Jeremiah Wright for spiritual guidance and mentorship?"

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

And the question is, "Why would Barack Obama turn to a hate-monger like Jeremiah Wright for spiritual guidance and mentorship?"

- and what effect does 20 years of spiritual guidance and mentorship under such a man do to a person?

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

- and what effect does 20 years of spiritual guidance and mentorship under such a man do to a person?

Exactly.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Keep on defending his opinions as "legitimate" if you want.

-- The United States Government created HIV as a means of genocide against people of color
Mavdog says: Legitimate

this qualifies as one of the statements that are "wrong" as I mentioned below.

-- The United States bombed far more people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki than were killed in the 9/11 attacks, so it has no right complain about those attacks.
Mavdog says: Legitimate

are you saying the facts on the nuclear bombs are not correct?

-- The United States supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and the black South Africans, so we deserve the terrorist attacks of 9/11.
Mavdog says: Legitimate

he's wrong on palestinians, the usa did support the apartheid regime, and he is wrong on the "deserve" remark.
but to you he doesn't have the "legitimate" right to mention this fact, right?

-- The United States government gave black people drugs and then passed three strike laws, all for the purpose of oppressing black people.
Mavdog says: Legitimate

he is wrong on giving blacks drugs, he expresses his opinion on the inequal treatment of blacks in our judicial system, which is a fact. but to you, he doesn't have a "legimate "right to mention this truth, right?

-- We have more black men in prison than in college, because the United States government is racist.
Mavdog says: Legitimate

black americans have been treated differently in our criminal system than non-black americans, and yes there is clear evidence of racism in these differed sentences. but of course to you these true facts should be glossed over and not spoken of, right?

Honestly, I don't know where you came up with this nonsense. He can believe whatever he wants, and he can say whatever he wants. As bad as he thinks this country is, it is one of the liberties afforded him in the United States by our Constitution. I never said that he should be silenced.

What I did say, however, is that his own words demonize him. No one has to make him out to be a radical, virulent hateful person. His own words fairly characterize him as such.

And the question is, "Why would Barack Obama turn to a hate-monger like Jeremiah Wright for spiritual guidance and mentorship?"

honestly, I can't understand how you refuse to acknowledge that there are some facts in what wright spoke about.

there HAS been prejudice and oppression in our country, and some of that continues today such as wright expressed in the inequal treatment of black americans by our criminal justice system.

his words do not "demonize him", and there is a need for people to speak up about this continued prejudice.

are all "radical" people to be "demonized"? no, not in the least. they too serve a purpose.

[kg_veteran]

Using your rationale, I could easily argue that bin Laden bases his opinions about the United States on facts, and that those opinions are "wrong" but "legitimate".

Why can't you just come out and condemn the man's beliefs as hateful and inexcusable? Stop trying to justify his radicalism and hatred.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Using your rationale, I could easily argue that bin Laden bases his opinions about the United States on facts, and that those opinions are "wrong" but "legitimate".

Why can't you just come out and condemn the man's beliefs as hateful and inexcusable? Stop trying to justify his radicalism and hatred.

I can't believe that you compare a person who uses violence, is responsible for killing thousands of innocent people, to a person who voices their opinion about racial inequality in america in a non-violent way.

wow. you are much better than this, aren't you?

[rabbitproof]

I believe this is fear mongering.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

the demonizing of wright does the same to you.

How?

[Murphy3]

It's just a shame to see the how willing some are to sweep this type of stuff under the carpet just to justify their voting for Obama. It's truly a sad time in the history of our country.

It would be one thing if these issues were addressed head on..but instead, they are side-stepped or lied about by the candidate in question.

[chumdawg]

I just got done reading a full transcript of one of his sermons. Anyone else in this thread done the same thing? Just one sermon, of course. Not twenty years' worth. Just one.

[Burn this City]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I believe this is fear mongering.

Ding ding ding...you win!

[wmbwinn]

I posted this cartoon elsewhere but on second thought it probably fits better here:

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I just got done reading a full transcript of one of his sermons. Anyone else in this thread done the same thing? Just one sermon, of course. Not twenty years' worth. Just one.

Uh-oh. Chum is no longer a valid option for Prez... He has been seriously tainted now...

[dude1394]

So dependent upon the text of the sermon what is to be made of Obama? Either way he appears to be either a radical or a coward for not standing firm for his mentor of 20 years.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

How?

you don't see why?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

So dependent upon the text of the sermon what is to be made of Obama? Either way he appears to be either a radical or a coward for not standing firm for his mentor of 20 years.

that's so absurd it's funny.