Knowing what you know now..

[dude1394]

I thought before forcing roddy into the lineup the Mavs were playing as well as anyone. Roddy's late insertion disrupted the team a lot.

[grndmstr_c]

I want to add this, because it just occurred to me. First off, there clearly is and has been an anti-Mavs bias out there. That bias is, for example, the only plausible explanation for everybody and their mother picking the Mavs as a first-round out last year.

I'm going to go a bit farther than that though. In particular, I claim: 1) that a big part of that anti-Mavs bias is in fact a lingering unwillingness to acknowledge Dirk's quality, and 2) that the legend that has grown up around Tyson's contributions to the championship has been fueled in part by the continuation of that anti-Dirk sentiment.

That's not to say there's nothing else to the love Tyson's been getting, and it's certainly not to say that everyone who's bought into the Tyson narrative is biased against Dirk. As jthig noted, championship contributions are almost always romanticized. And I'm also fairly confident that everyone can agree that TC is the best center that Dirk has ever played with. But the undeniable fact of the matter is that he also represents an easy out and a rallying point for journalists and basketball observers who've been spending the last 10 years discounting Dirk's greatness only to have all their years of B.S. shoved back in there face. I've no doubt that's behind at least some of the ridiculous media claims we've been hearing, not to mention a decent chunk of Tyson's new contract.

[b_o_r]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Isn't that what anti-Mavs bias is all about? The Lakers weren't playing well either, and the Bulls never had consistent offense. The Heat were entirely predictable, and the Spurs were too small. Everyone had their weaknesses; past seasons just made putting down the Mavs more popular.

So you are going to ignore the fact that players and coaches on other teams publicly said they wanted to play the Mavs in the first round?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Players say lots of things that aren't true. Players have mics put in front of their face and are forced to say something interesting. Dirk called Tyson the MVP multiple times, does anyone just accept that as gospel? Of course not.

Look here now, too many of his teammates spoke about what he brought too many times for it to be BS, or because there were Mics put in front of their faces. Especially Dirk, he seems a straight shooter most times. You aren't gonna find a player that will speak ill of what he brought to the team.

[ibivibiv]

Given that Tyson isn't really blowing up in New York and leading them to any big wins, I think the call was right. Wait and see. This season was rushed and our team is old. The only regret I have is Deshawn Stevenson. That was dumb in my humble opinion. He got a 1 year deal at low money that we could have beat and had a tough defender option on the bench (or gasp, starting again). He must have personal issues that we don't know about in the public, because it stunned me no one jumped to pick him up.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Look here now, too many of his teammates spoke about what he brought too many times for it to be BS, or because there were Mics put in front of their faces. Especially Dirk, he seems a straight shooter most times. You aren't gonna find a player that will speak ill of what he brought to the team.

I never said they'd speak ill.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I want to add this, because it just occurred to me. First off, there clearly is and has been an anti-Mavs bias out there. That bias is, for example, the only plausible explanation for everybody and their mother picking the Mavs as a first-round out last year.

I'm going to go a bit farther than that though. In particular, I claim: 1) that a big part of that anti-Mavs bias is in fact a lingering unwillingness to acknowledge Dirk's quality, and 2) that the legend that has grown up around Tyson's contributions to the championship has been fueled in part by the continuation of that anti-Dirk sentiment.

That's not to say there's nothing else to the love Tyson's been getting, and it's certainly not to say that everyone who's bought into the Tyson narrative is biased against Dirk. As jthig noted, championship contributions are almost always romanticized. And I'm also fairly confident that everyone can agree that TC is the best center that Dirk has ever played with. But the undeniable fact of the matter is that he also represents an easy out and a rallying point for journalists and basketball observers who've been spending the last 10 years discounting Dirk's greatness only to have all their years of B.S. shoved back in there face. I've no doubt that's behind at least some of the ridiculous media claims we've been hearing, not to mention a decent chunk of Tyson's new contract.

This is a fantastic point. Tyson Chandler and Deshawn Stevenson(!!??!!) gave Barkley the out he needed to get behind the Mavs. Now that they're gone he's back to his idiotic stance that the Mavs are too soft to do anything.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by b_o_r

So you are going to ignore the fact that players and coaches on other teams publicly said they wanted to play the Mavs in the first round?

Obviously, they lost their minds. But only a few people recognized that.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by b_o_r

So you are going to ignore the fact that players and coaches on other teams publicly said they wanted to play the Mavs in the first round?

Why give any credence to their opinions? They were all losers when it was said and done.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

15/13 from the center position against New Orleans. Once again, not an area of concern.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Obviously, they lost their minds. But only a few people recognized that.

remember lawsons tweet?

Good game between Dallas and Portland. Good thing we didn't end up getting Dallas. Coach Karl lost his mind.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

15/13 from the center position against New Orleans. Once again, not an area of concern.

JAYZISS people, it's not about the numbers.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

JAYZISS people, it's not about the numbers.

My bad. I forgot it was about "team culture."

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Poor NYK believed in all this crap They really thought Tyson could play deefense 1 on 5

They're allowing like 6-7 points less per game than last season, Chandler had a ridiculous impact on their defense. Surprisingly, the Knicks's problem is now their offense. Tyson, as great of a fit on defense, is a horrible fit on the other end for them. First of all they don't have a PG who could make him useful offensively, and on top of that, he takes away the space from Stoudemire by clogging the lane, who as a result plays horribly so far, takes long 2's, and can't really get into the paint. Anthony trying to play point forward also doesn't help. They would be an absolute nasty team with Nash, if he signs there at summer, i really think they're set, Shumpert and Fields are really nice young players. They just need a legit PG.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

They're [NYK] allowing like 6-7 points less per game than last season.

You'll want to be careful about reading too much into that. Offensive efficiency league-wide is way down so far this year, and New York is playing a bit slower as well. Allowing 6-7 points less is basically just treading water.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

They're allowing like 6-7 points less per game than last season, Chandler had a ridiculous impact on their defense. Surprisingly, the Knicks's problem is now their offense. Tyson, as great of a fit on defense, is a horrible fit on the other end for them. First of all they don't have a PG who could make him useful offensively, and on top of that, he takes away the space from Stoudemire by clogging the lane, who as a result plays horribly so far, takes long 2's, and can't really get into the paint. Anthony trying to play point forward also doesn't help. They would be an absolute nasty team with Nash, if he signs there at summer, i really think they're set, Shumpert and Fields are really nice young players. They just need a legit PG.

16th in defensive effeciency, 27th in rebound rate; 13th in offensive effeciency. He does clog the lane though and it could really hurt amare's game throughout the year

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by mavs777

16th in defensive effeciency

Yep, as i said, he improved them. Chandler does have a great impact defensively, i'm not saying he would have worth that money, 5 year contract for an injury prone player, who had a reputation as a contract year warrior... No thanks. I probably wouldn't have signed him for 5 years 50 million. There is a good chance his will be one of the worst contracts in the NBA in 2 years. I'm just saying he does have a great impact on a team's defense.

[G-Man]

To be fair, the Mavs earned much of thier media scorn by sucking in the playoffs for 4 straight years. Plenty of people around here expected Jet to clang his shots and Kidd to lay down and collapse from old age. That they both had their best playoffs in years was a surprise to many, including me.

TC seemed uniquely suited to this team. His foot speed made our pick and roll defense credible, but it would not have been so had we not added top defenders in DSteve and Marion, and had Jet and Kidd not stepped up their intensity and consistency on D to levels never seen here before. Because of all this, it is entirely possible that he was worth 15 million a year to the Mavs, but not worth anything close to that in NY. The fact that Amare is a much weaker defender than Dirk, and that he plays closer to the basket mean TC has a much tougher job now. Plus how good a defender can anyone be on a Mike DanTony team anyway.

Knowing what we know now, we just don't know enough. If we score big in free agency next year, the move will be remembered as brilliant. If we don't, then it depends on a bunch of other ifs. If Mahimi continues to improve and Haywood manages not to fall into a funk, and Odom gets it together, this team could be competitive in the playoffs. But for now, looking at how disheveled much of the West looks now, I feel like if we had kept TC, we would have been one of the hot teams out of the gate, and a better team at the end of this season than last.

[Janett_Reno]

Budapest Maverick is right on with his post about Chandler and the Knicks. Carmelo & Amare are very good but ball hogs. Amare needs the ball in the middle to work & he needs a point guard. They would still not win with a good point guard and no center. They had to have both. Tyson needs a point guard to feed him the ball at the rim. Other probs with the Knicks is Amare & Carmelo playing defense. It is like the old Mavs not playing any defense & saying, hey Dampier, stop all five comming down the middle & in which Damp could play no offense.

If i was the Knicks i would grab Kidd or Nash or a good smart pg that is a great assist man. A very good pg will help Tyson & Amare alot. It will still be questions about the Knicks defense but with a good pg they have a chance and with the pg's they have now, they have zero chance. Tyson took the money & the nba is more about the money today than titles. OK City was never going to win a title without a center & a phiscal one & no i am not a fan of Perkins but now they have a chance, just like we did when we got Chandler. As bad as i do not like it, the Lakers have a chance in the west as long as those two big men stay healthy & Blake is better than people know. Denver will be a good team. I hope Dallas gets Howard.

When you throw Nellie Ball out there or Doug Moe, it won't continue to win in the playoffs. It is pretty but pretty doesn't win. Physical does. Mavs need some inside game, better defense & alot will come down to how good or how bad our centers are. Stevenson loss wasn't good but we normally like falling back to Phx Suns style instead of SA Spurs style and last year we had a mixture of all. In a very good way. It really opens Kidd up to with a guy like Chandler. If i was the Knicks, i would get Nash & even for a one time shot. The defense would probably be the downfall as Chandler can't cover for all the bad Knicks defenders but with a pg and a good one, they have a chance.

[Janett_Reno]

Without a pg, Chandler will not have a good year. Put him with Kidd, Chris Paul, Nash, he will have a good year, if healthy and in return he will give his team paint points and that team will be much better on defense. You could bring Carmelo to this team now but it won't be much difference. We need a defender at the rim & someone that can score some in the painted area & it would not hurt to have a very good defender around the top of the key, foul line area, like a Stevenson. I do not think Cuban is looking to win one this year unless someone like Howard falls in his lap but was looking at next year to sign a big name. Then again, no one knew Odom sucked this bad without Kobe. I never dreamed he would as i thought he was talented. It still hurt bad when we lose a Tyson, but i thought Odom would be more than a Shimmy Shake Walker and even Shimmy Shake looks like an all star to Odom, at this point. I put Odom in the LaFrenz basket right now.