Offseason 2010 Thread

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

The Raps might get all the luck they need from Bosh picking the Lakers as his preferred destination - if that's the way things end up shaking out - because Bynum would seem to be the obvious S&T bait from the Lakers' end.

...and if the Lakers say FU, instead wanting to unload Fisher, Odom....what will Stern do? "As the NBA Turns." Tune in next time.....

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Underdog

With yet another Lakers-Celtics Finals, the NBA is BEGGING me to stop giving a damn about their product - if Bosh ends up on the Lakers, I'll gladly oblige...

+1,000000000000000

[mac222b]

see i think when push comes to shove, with the new CBA looming, ain't no way any of these max salary guys going to forfeit 30 million in guaranteed $. so can the NETs sign and trade for both Bosh and Bron? can the Knicks or Bulls? what would be left over if they did? i just don't see any package deals unless it involves a lesser star like Joe Johnson, Boozer, Stoudemire. that helps the Mavs, at least prospectively.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

I read 2013, so 3 years Newark.

a central park, Newark? I'm sorry if you heard Central Park, "New York"

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by sefant77

I read 2013, so 3 years Newark.

They're "hoping" for 2012, with 2013 a realistic possibility.

The arena in Newark is only two years old, and it is supposedly awesome (haven't been yet). Plus, it's pretty darn easy to get to from NY (ok, not as easy as the Garden, but what is).

I just think the Nets have a better plan for rebuilding--develop young talent, create cap space and use it wisely, and accumulate draft picks. The Knicks, on the other hand--give away draft picks to create cap space, blow it all on two players--with the hopes that those two players are who they want them to be.

Let's say you are LeBron, and you really care about championships. Do you choose the Knicks--where you can probably choose your own sidekick, but then you and, let's say Bosh for argument's sake, are playing alongside Wilson Chander, Eddy Curry, and Danilo Gallinari, with no draft picks for the next three years to get anyone else--or, do you choose to play with Devin Harris, whoever the #3 pick is this year, Brook Lopez, a bunch of young wings, #27, #31, and probably one more (non-max-level) free agent this year, plus have several first rounders the next few seasons to build with or use in trades? It's clear where the upside is. I still think the Knicks are gonna get spurned by the top few guys, and end up maxing out Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer...and thus remaining mediocre for the next five years or more.

[sefant77]

Yes, Nets are so much better than the Knicks.

Chandler/Gali vs Lee/CDR/Williams/Yi
+Harris
+Lopez (the big center)
+#3
+ future picks

But the Knicks wont max out 2 players like JJ/Boozer/Lee. They want 2 of the top free agents and if they miss out on James this year they will keep one cap slop for Anthony 2011 (since Denver is on the way to be done agewise). What they need is to dump Curry on 1st july for Okafor. Then they have a shot to sign James (and a PF).

Not a bad place, 3 years old: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prudential_Center

The Nets would probably even pay James the monthly costs for a private chopper

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by bobatundi

They're "hoping" for 2012, with 2013 a realistic possibility.

The arena in Newark is only two years old, and it is supposedly awesome (haven't been yet). Plus, it's pretty darn easy to get to from NY (ok, not as easy as the Garden, but what is).

I just think the Nets have a better plan for rebuilding--develop young talent, create cap space and use it wisely, and accumulate draft picks. The Knicks, on the other hand--give away draft picks to create cap space, blow it all on two players--with the hopes that those two players are who they want them to be.

Let's say you are LeBron, and you really care about championships. Do you choose the Knicks--where you can probably choose your own sidekick, but then you and, let's say Bosh for argument's sake, are playing alongside Wilson Chander, Eddy Curry, and Danilo Gallinari, with no draft picks for the next three years to get anyone else--or, do you choose to play with Devin Harris, whoever the #3 pick is this year, Brook Lopez, a bunch of young wings, #27, #31, and probably one more (non-max-level) free agent this year, plus have several first rounders the next few seasons to build with or use in trades? It's clear where the upside is. I still think the Knicks are gonna get spurned by the top few guys, and end up maxing out Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer...and thus remaining mediocre for the next five years or more.

The Nets have a lot of things going for them, yes. Still, I will be shocked- I mean absolutely shocked if Lebron chooses the Nets. I just don't see it happening. In terms of winning titles, the Nets are really no less of a gamble than New York (or at least not much of one.) New York at least has the massive prestige factor going for it. The Nets don't. Not by a long shot. I don't care where they're moving to, or how cool their new owner is. The Brooklyn Nets will never have the marquee value that the Knicks have.

And I don't care how new the arena is; there's no friggin way Lebron wants to spend the next two years of the prime of his career in Newark.

I just don't see it happening.

[sefant77]

Well, with James + Bosh/Lee/Boozer/Amare Nets win easily 55-60+ games next season and thats probably history for the biggest turnaround in history...

And we know James loves making history. I wouldnt be shocked. I would be shocked if he chooses the Knicks over the Nets.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Well, with James + Bosh/Lee/Boozer/Amare win easily 55-60+ games next season and thats probably history for the biggest turnaround in history...

And we know James loves making history. I wouldnt be shocked. I would be shocked if he chooses the Knicks over the Nets.

Frankly I'd be shocked if he chose either of them, but more so if he chooses the Nets.

[Kidd Karma]

Thorn and the Russian Cuban, is a huge threat to the Knicks pull. Knicks got the history, but the Nets have the stability in Thorn and now the $$ in the new owner.

[mcsluggo]

Lebron is going to be a giant weiner just like every other giant weiner before him... and figure out a way to go to the Lakers.

Lakers management will then once again be coo-ed and fawned over as geniuses for "getting it to happen"... ignoring the fact that it is the supid "I wanna be a hollywood starlet" players that push themselves there everytime.

I hate the Lakers with every fiber of my being, and hope that they lose this series in 4 games with a combined 100 point differential.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

Lebron is going to be a giant weiner just like every other giant weiner before him... and figure out a way to go to the Lakers.

Lakers management will then once again be coo-ed and fawned over as geniuses for "getting it to happen"... ignoring the fact that it is the supid "I wanna be a hollywood starlet" players that push themselves there everytime.

I hate the Lakers with every fiber of my being, and hope that they lose this series in 4 games with a combined 100 point differential.

I know exactly what you mean. It really is ridiculous how the league seems to just give them star players. Or rather, players find a way to force their teams to give them to the Lakers.

Kobe is the perfect example. He's a Laker because he refused to play for the Charlotte Hornets. So the Lakers end up getting one of the top 5 players of all-time, and the Hornets get Vlade.

All that being said, Lebron is not going to the Lakers (although apparently Bosh might be.)

[wilmtalk]

Originally Posted by Maringa

This wasn't directed at you mavs777 personally...I guess of all of the years that I have been a fan and a very limited participation on this board, I have become jaded and extremely disappointed after off-season, after off-season, of potential sky-is-the-limit trades that were supposed to bring Kobe, Kidd earlier in his career, Shaq, Boozer, etc...it just appears that the Mavs are always short of enough talented players to complete a major trade, or enough cap room to lure any significant free agents. It seems that all of the attractive free agents have always used the Mavs for leverage in their resigning or sign-and-trades for other teams to complete. Every once in a while, the Mavs do complete a decent trade - like the Caron Butler/Haywood, but it is never for any young, upcoming talent...always for some talent on the way down: Caron, Antoine Walker, Jason Kidd.

I don't know what is going to be different this year...the Dust chip I think is over rated - I think it will net us something, but nothing significant. Something deep inside me says that Damp will be resigned, because Haywood is going to split to another team (he will use Dallas as a bargaining chip - you watch).

I wish Dallas well, but I expect more of the same...

The problem with the Mavs is that they are constantly swinging for the fence and hoping that something connects. They would be better off trying to build a solid team over a couple of years rather than shooting their wad every year to the detriment of the long term. That is a gamble that has not paid off for them in the past. They morgage the future for the present that never materialized. They end up with aging players on the downslide. The tougble with swinging for the fences is that more than often you strick out.

One definition of insanity is when you keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.

[mkat]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

a central park, Newark? I'm sorry if you heard Central Park, "New York"

well you're at a central park...in Newark...if i had told you it was a central park in Newark you wouldn't have done the gig!

yes we would have!

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

The problem with the Mavs is that they are constantly swinging for the fence and hoping that something connects. They would be better off trying to build a solid team over a couple of years rather than shooting their wad every year to the detriment of the long term. That is a gamble that has not paid off for them in the past. They morgage the future for the present that never materialized. They end up with aging players on the downslide. The tougble with swinging for the fences is that more than often you strick out.

One definition of insanity is when you keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.

No. No it's not.

[mac222b]

i still think the teams have more leverage than anyone thinks- if they're smart. if LeBron wants a sign and trade to the Nets you accept nothing less than the #3 pick and salary to make the trade work. do the Nets even have enough salary to make a sign and trade work? Devin Harris? but Devin Harris doesn't get it done unless you want to remain mediocre for the next few years. to win in the NBA you've got to have stars and they're most likely to come in the top 3 picks for teams like Cleveland. i'll be extremely surprised if Bron, Bosh or Wade signs for less the max years/$. these guys have to work w/ their teams in sign and trades. i hate to sound like a broken record but i feel like everyone is underestimating the amount of leverage these teams have if they're smart. These GM's shouldn't be taking back the Dengs, Devin Harris, and Bynums(damaged goods) of the world for superstars. they have to play hardball.

[clutch#41]

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

The problem with the Mavs is that they are constantly swinging for the fence and hoping that something connects. They would be better off trying to build a solid team over a couple of years rather than shooting their wad every year to the detriment of the long term. That is a gamble that has not paid off for them in the past. They morgage the future for the present that never materialized. They end up with aging players on the downslide. The tougble with swinging for the fences is that more than often you strick out.

One definition of insanity is when you keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.

THIS..Im a big fan of the draft and building up your own players within the organization. the only future we got as of right now is RoddyB..Whats gonna happen in 3 yrs for the aging mavs??? OKC is the perfect example of a young team being built from the draft to having a successful future. Even aging teams like SA and Boston have pieces for the future.the mavs DONT!!

[dude1394]

It's a bad move when it doesn't work. But the celts for example mortgaged their future for now and it DID work. Sounds a little like monday-morning qbing.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by mac222b

i still think the teams have more leverage than anyone thinks- if they're smart. if LeBron wants a sign and trade to the Nets you accept nothing less than the #3 pick and salary to make the trade work. do the Nets even have enough salary to make a sign and trade work? Devin Harris? but Devin Harris doesn't get it done unless you want to remain mediocre for the next few years. to win in the NBA you've got to have stars and they're most likely to come in the top 3 picks for teams like Cleveland. i'll be extremely surprised if Bron, Bosh or Wade signs for less the max years/$. these guys have to work w/ their teams in sign and trades. i hate to sound like a broken record but i feel like everyone is underestimating the amount of leverage these teams have if they're smart. These GM's shouldn't be taking back the Dengs, Devin Harris, and Bynums(damaged goods) of the world for superstars. they have to play hardball.

Nets do not need the salary when they have the cap space. They can even take him in at Cleveland's max for essentially nothing, Cleveland on the other hand would get a trade exception based on the first year salary of Lebron's deal.

When you choose not to deal the player, especially of Lebron's caliber, you as a team and individual front office person get a big fat X when agents deal with you. Agents will go for the jugular, they will cause havoc to get their player out of town. On the other hand some agents who have good relationship with management, will tell their client to stuff it and play out the string.

True when you're looking at maxing deals and the teams having leverage, you key in on Lebron signing this shorter deal years ago, leading this group, of Wade and Bosh to sign essentially the same deal in close watch of the looming expiring CBA. That was the major reason why Lebron chose to sign a 3 year deal rather than maxing out at the 6. Dooming ideas such as annual raises dropping 2-3 percent, a cap on max years from 6 to 5 or 4. With that in mind and being locked in to essentially a contract with 2 years to run, he loses earning power when he reups his new deal. It was a smart move by Lebron at the time, but with that move, if you read between the lines, lebron's setting himself up to fully maximize his earning power on this new deal....which means Cleveland holds ALL the cards at this point. Does Lebron have the fortitude to dare Cleveland? I mean years ago KMart was a FA, Denver had cap space and maxed out their offer, there was a huge upfront signing bonus in Denver's offer. KMart was going to sign if NJ didn't match that upfront bonus, NJ did not match and instead signed and traded him at the full max that NJ could offer.

[KINGBEEF]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

Lebron is going to be a giant weiner just like every other giant weiner before him... and figure out a way to go to the Lakers.

Lakers management will then once again be coo-ed and fawned over as geniuses for "getting it to happen"... ignoring the fact that it is the supid "I wanna be a hollywood starlet" players that push themselves there everytime.

I hate the Lakers with every fiber of my being, and hope that they lose this series in 4 games with a combined 100 point differential.

why would anyone want to go to the Lakers anyways. The world knows that that's Kobe's team. And if he feels threatened at all he'll find a way to get rid of you. At least here in Dallas Dirk is willing to put his emotions aside. I'm not complaining about your quote, i'm just adding fuel to it.

[bernardos70]

Here's the most useless post of this thread. I'm tired of theorizing and the LBJ BS, I'll get back to this when the World Cup ends.

I've read quite a few pages on this thread and I'm ready to not stress myself over this for even a second more.

Sincerely
Bernardo

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

why would anyone want to go to the Lakers anyways. The world knows that that's Kobe's team. And if he feels threatened at all he'll find a way to get rid of you. At least here in Dallas Dirk is willing to put his emotions aside. I'm not complaining about your quote, i'm just adding fuel to it.

Bosh did mention some time last season that he can carry a team.

[bernardos70]

......to mediocrity

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by dude1394

It's a bad move when it doesn't work. But the celts for example mortgaged their future for now and it DID work. Sounds a little like monday-morning qbing.

Fishy as it was when they got KG, was it old Celtic buddies giving in to each other?

Then a middle of the road Laker team some how steals Pau Gasol from old Jerry West, former Laker......funny how life revolves around a circle. So where's Mark Aguirre, Blackman, or Harper.

[Rick41]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Bosh did mention some time last season that he can carry a team.

I'd like to see him prove it though.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Fishy as it was when they got KG, was it old Celtic buddies giving in to each other?

Then a middle of the road Laker team some how steals Pau Gasol from old Jerry West, former Laker......funny how life revolves around a circle. So where's Mark Aguirre, Blackman, or Harper.

I don't think the Celts getting KG was fishy at all, at least not nearly so much as the Lakers getting Gasol. The Wolves actually got a very good deal for KG.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Rick41

I'd like to see him prove it though.

Well we've already gotten a preview with Toronto.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I know exactly what you mean. It really is ridiculous how the league seems to just give them star players. Or rather, players find a way to force their teams to give them to the Lakers.

Kobe is the perfect example. He's a Laker because he refused to play for the Charlotte Hornets. So the Lakers end up getting one of the top 5 players of all-time, and the Hornets get Vlade.

All that being said, Lebron is not going to the Lakers (although apparently Bosh might be.)

July 1st: Cavs and Mavs announce they will work out a s&t James-Butler+x because James will leave the Cavs for sure

July 2nd: Raptors and Lakers announce they will S&T Bosh and Bynum.

Playoffs 2010-2015: Lakers beating the Mavs in 7 games

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by clutch#41

THIS..Im a big fan of the draft and building up your own players within the organization. the only future we got as of right now is RoddyB..Whats gonna happen in 3 yrs for the aging mavs??? OKC is the perfect example of a young team being built from the draft to having a successful future. Even aging teams like SA and Boston have pieces for the future.the mavs DONT!!

That is exactly what the Mavs have done. They built from the draft with Dirk and have been trying any way possible to build around him and get him help. That is what happens in the league. I don't think you just say after a few years especially with the success we have had, "well that didn't work I guess we need to start over completely." When Dirk is gone then yes, start over build around Roddy or whatever, but until then they can only try to get the puzzle right however they can.

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by sefant77

July 1st: Cavs and Mavs announce they will work out a s&t James-Butler+x because James will leave the Cavs for sure

July 2nd: Raptors and Lakers announce they will S&T Bosh and Bynum.

Playoffs 2010-2015: Lakers beating the Mavs in 7 games

Fixed*

July 2nd: Stern and Lakers announce they will S&T Bosh and Bynum.

[sefant77]

July 3rd: Lakers trade L. Walton, S. Vujacic and A.Morrison for Gilbert Arenas

[tcat075]

July 4th: Stern looks in the official NBA rulebook for the first time since 1889, and sees that there is a violation called the "travel". But, since his head referees assure him that not once has any of their crew seen a player commit this violation, he removes it from the books because it is simply a waste of space.

To replace it, he puts in place the "Dwyane Wade" rule, where officials are allowed to give him free throws whenever they wish...even during timeouts. Merely minutes after this press release, Nick Collison, Raja Bell, and Drew Gooden foul out. Hundreds more foul outs are expected by the time opening day roles around.

[clutch#41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

When Dirk is gone then yes, start over build around Roddy or whatever, but until then they can only try to get the puzzle right however they can.

but what if dirk leaves this offseason??? i know alot of people think the odds of him leaving are 1 in 1,000,000 but theres still the possibility...whats plan b then??

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by sefant77

July 3rd: Lakers trade L. Walton, S. Vujacic and A.Morrison for Gilbert Arenas

To combat this new disadvantage, Stern allows the Lakers to play with 6 men.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by clutch#41

but what if dirk leaves this offseason??? i know alot of people think the odds of him leaving are 1 in 1,000,000 but theres still the possibility...whats plan b then??

There isn't one. If Dirk leaves, we're screwed.

He's not, but if he did, let's just face it...we are totally screwed.

[Eman]

Depends on what we trade dirk for........Draft picks, young up and coming stars? We'd lose a lot more game but have several young players picks hopefully and Roddy would get 40 minutes a night!

[tcat075]

If Dirk straight leaves, we're screwed.

Sign and trade is another story, but right now its completely possible for Dirk to simply leave through free agency without us getting anything. I don't think its likely that Dirk leaves, and I think its even more unlikely for Dirk to leave us without anything, but its possible.

[Mavericks Rockets Fan]

Originally Posted by clutch#41

but what if dirk leaves this offseason??? i know alot of people think the odds of him leaving are 1 in 1,000,000 but theres still the possibility...whats plan b then??

Use Damp + Picks to do a S&T for Boozer. Utah does not want to take on any salary so the trade makes sense for them. Also, all Boozer cares about is the money, he wouldn't mind coming to Dallas if it means more money for him...

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by clutch#41

but what if dirk leaves this offseason??? i know alot of people think the odds of him leaving are 1 in 1,000,000 but theres still the possibility...whats plan b then??

Start trading the long term contracts left and right, get draft picks and hang on tight for a long ride.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by clutch#41

but what if dirk leaves this offseason??? i know alot of people think the odds of him leaving are 1 in 1,000,000 but theres still the possibility...whats plan b then??

There's a much higher probability that I'll nail your mom tonight.

Maybe you should start worrying about that instead...