BIG MAN UPDATE from Fort Worth Star Telegram - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

zanahale · 01-24-2004, 06:58 AM

Here is part of a new article from the Fort Worth Star Telegram (01/24/04):

Mavericks' quest for a new big man going small-time
By Art Garcia
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

CHICAGO - The search for another Mavericks big man continues, but unlike the Rasheed Wallace furor, the current hunt is more pedestrian. Backup centers and power forwards at the low end of the salary scale are the targets, according to league sources.

Among those being considered are Jake Tsakalidis (Memphis), Joel Przybilla (Milwaukee), Primoz Brezec (Indiana), Loren Woods (Miami), Michael Doleac (New York), Scott Williams (Phoenix) and Brendan Haywood (Washington). The Mavs can absorb minimum salaries by creating a roster spot.

The Mavs have 15 players, but they can make room by cutting reserve center Mamadou N'diaye, whose second 10-day contract expires Monday. Signing N'diaye for the remainder of the season is a remote possibility.

The Mavs are reluctant to make a move for a high-dollar player such as Wallace because it would mean trading one of their top players. Antawn Jamison is the name most often mentioned, but Antoine Walker and Michael Finley haven't been immune to trade rumors.

Mavs management has stressed that unless a deal impossible to turn down is presented, they prefer to stay with the current team through the end of the season. The trade deadline is Feb. 19.

Link to the full article

V · 01-24-2004, 10:57 AM

Nice list... these guys could all help... Quick thoughts:

> Tsakalidis is a robot
> Przybilla is an injury concern. Big upside defensively
> Brezec plays like he's 7' 2" from Slovenia. Poor Defensively.
> Woods provides "conduct detrimental to the team." Potential is there.
> Doleac wants to go to medical school (after basketball). Has nice 18 footer.
> Williams was offered an assistant coaching job but he wants to play. Energy guy when healthy.
> Haywood has been outplayed by Etan Thomas all season. Upside as rebounder & shotblocker. Limited O skills.

Poindexter Einstein · 01-24-2004, 12:01 PM

None of these guys would ever leave the bench. Makes no sense to offer anything of value in a trade.

V · 01-24-2004, 01:31 PM

You don't think 30 minutes of Bradley + Przybilla beats 30 minutes of Bradley + Fortson?

True, these guys all have fleas but if you're working under the assumption that the Mavs don't want to touch the Big-6 these names make some sense. You're looking for 12 - 15 disruptive minutes from a guy who won't be bullied around by guys like Eddy Curry, Jahidi White, and Gary Effin Trent.

For those purposes I like several names on that list. (Remember Haywood himself bullied the Mavs for 16 boards earlier this year.)

Poindexter Einstein · 01-24-2004, 02:35 PM

Do I think they could help? Perhaps.

Do I think they would play? Nope.

Nellie wont even play the ones he has with any regularity. So one with even less talent will just sit. If Bradley and Fortson are unavailable due to fouls or injuries, he will go with Dirk or somesuch.

If Nellie would play a C regularly, it would be a different equation. But he wont. Which sucks, but thats how it is.

Dirkenstien · 01-24-2004, 02:58 PM

I would absolutely love to get Brendan Haywood on this team.

MavsFanFinley · 01-24-2004, 03:09 PM

With the recent play of Bradley, getting a lesser known player such as above makes more sense than breaking up the team to get another all-star.

Not all the names are attractive, but imagine having a tag-team of Bradley/Haywood with Fortson filling in where necessary. Especially if it only costs Najera or Delk.

My choices would be: Haywood, Tsakalidis, Przybilla.

Then this summer you can look into moving Finley, Walker, or Jamison if necessary.

V · 01-24-2004, 03:17 PM

Haywood is the guy I would like. Przbilla was a number seven pick so you have to assume he has talent... none of us really know since he's been hurt for his whole career. Williams could be a positive lockeroom guy (in the vein of Little General) ... the Suns won't play him due to the youth movement. He could also be beneficial in the playoffs where veteran experience means a lot. Doleac will probably be part of a larger deal for the Knicks.

Poindexter - I think you have to give Nelly a bit of a break on the "playing a center" criticism. I think you're going to see consistent 28 minutes (+/- 5 minutes) out of the Bradley / Fortson combo unless the Mavs move AJ or Walk. Bradley is going t oplay unless he gets hurt so you're really talking about someone -- like Haywood -- who could challenge for Fortson's minutes while providing insurance in case of injury.

A nine or ten man rotation including two "centers" is ideal for the regular season. The playoff rotation will be another matter all together.

jayC · 01-24-2004, 04:10 PM

I disagree. Jake is a bigger najera with more offensive skills. Last year's opening round of the playoffs he played pretty big against Duncan. You know what you are going to get from this guy.

I like Jahidi White personally he has a small lowpost game, and hes a banger.

Haywood is just that hes filled with potential. As you stated earlier he doesn't even start for Washington. So why would we want him? The guy on washington that I want is Kwame Brown hes a former number one and hes only 21.

grndmstr_c · 01-24-2004, 04:20 PM

While it's debateable how gettable some of these other guys are, I think it's safe to say that we don't have the tools to pry away Kwame. He may have been a bust to this point, but I can't see Washington cashing in their number one pick for Delk or Najera, or even Daniels for that matter. With whatever upside he has, he's also not really what we need. He can't bang or block as well as Haywood, rebounds about the same, and shoots just as poorly.

V · 01-24-2004, 05:08 PM

I've actually watched Brown a little bit this year.... and you can see the potential. You get the feeling that he just needs more time. He could still develop into a dominant big man... at a minimum he's going to have a long NBA career. At times he very effective initiating the offense from the high post. (Wiz runs the same Pete Carrol based passing / motion offense that Sac runs) ... and he has some nice moves on the low block. Like most young big men he lacks consistency. Unfortunately, I agree with Master C, I don't see a scenario that gives the Mavs any shot at getting him.

Tsakalidis is the definition of a robotic player (having no fluidity to his game). Granted I have not watched him much this year (he hardly plays) ... Watching him you don't get the feeling that he's a real basketball player, rather he just looks like a very big dude who gets some bounces offensively & can bog things down defensively due to his size. He's not a high energy player. That said, I suppose he could help, but I'm not sure he beats out Fortson for the minutes at question.

kg_veteran · 01-24-2004, 05:37 PM

Quote:

My choices would be: Haywood, Tsakalidis, Przybilla.

Agreed, MFF. I'd take any of those guys.

Big Jake is interesting simply because he has the size to push back when Shaq bangs on him. Same for Duncan.

Haywood is interesting because he seems like a pretty good athlete for his size who has never really tapped his potential.

Pryzbilla's a shotblocker; can't have too many of those.

V · 01-24-2004, 09:20 PM

Speaking of Kwame Brown.... I'm watching him dominate the Pacers tonight. 21 pts 8 boards & he's initiating the offense most times down the floor. 3 minutes left in the fourth & the Wiz are up... don't know if it will stick but the Kwame on display tonight is the Kwame we all expected to see!

akaarod03 · 01-24-2004, 10:56 PM

How about Scott Pollard and Primoz Brezec for Tony Delk, Eduardo Najera, Denver's 2nd round pick that we own, and cash? Pollard and Brezec arent exactly getting playing time in Indiana. I dont know too much about Brezec...all I know is that he's big...real big. Pollard...I'm not sure if he's hurt or what...but he's just not fitting into Rick Carlisle's rotation. He was terrific for Sacramento. Delk could help Indiana as a back-up guard. Najera would be a nice role player as well. It's not a blockbuster trade by any means...but I think it helps both teams. Your thoughts?

EricaLubarsky · 01-24-2004, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: V
Nice list... these guys could all help... Quick thoughts:

> Tsakalidis is a robot
> Przybilla is an injury concern. Big upside defensively
> Brezec plays like he's 7' 2" from Slovenia. Poor Defensively.
> Woods provides "conduct detrimental to the team." Potential is there.
> Doleac wants to go to medical school (after basketball). Has nice 18 footer.
> Williams was offered an assistant coaching job but he wants to play. Energy guy when healthy.
> Haywood has been outplayed by Etan Thomas all season. Upside as rebounder & shotblocker. Limited O skills.

And maybe he could be a Laker killer- he may not be a good player but he sure made the Lakers a little easier with a certain fall. Then again if we are talking wrecking balls Fortson is probably better at that than Williams- he has Shaq like strength and was able to break the Wookiee's wrist with a light shove.

ddh33 · 01-25-2004, 12:16 AM

I hate to classify this team as "beggars" since I don't think they are. But beggars can't be choosers. Anyone of those guys would help this team in some way. I don't think there is anything wrong with having a big body on the bench who can play in a pinch, even if he doesn't play much.

As for my thoughts on the players:
Tsakalidis is huge. He was pretty highly thought of in the draft. I think he fell becuase of a contract and language issue. He's hasn't shown much so far, but he may still develop into something. You can't teach size. However, it's hard to deal with a team in your own division - especially when that team is run by Jerry West. Remember, they need size as much as we do. I don't think he's the guy...

Joel Prizybilla was supposed to be better than this. He's a guy who was drafted high. Unfortunately, injuries have derailed his career. He is a good shotblocker. He would peak my interest; I think he still has a chance. I think Milwaukee might even deal under the right circumstances.

Don't know much about Primoz. I would tend to guess that he follows the stereotype.

Loren Woods has some character issues, along with some back issues. He may be the most obtainable guy on the list though. He was supposed to be better than Duncan once upon a time.

Doleac stays in New York unless he's moved out as part of another blockbuster package. I just think he's worth more to them - or someone else - than he is to the Mavs.

Scott Williams would be a Popeye type guy here. He's battle tested and has hurt Karl Malone. I think Phoenix would want expiring contracts that the Mavs don't have. He would be a good fit though.

Brendan Haywood is the most interesting name on the list. He's got all kinds of potential and ability. He's always been able to rebound and block pretty effectively. I think he would be a great fit here becuase of his ability to run the floor, among other things. I don't know for sure what we would give to get him. My first guess is that it would have to be a package deal.

I guess if I had to put the guys in some order of preference, I would do it as follows:
Haywood
Prizybilla
Tsakalidis
Williams
Doleac
Woods
Brezec

MavsFanFinley · 01-25-2004, 12:41 AM

Taken from the DMN.

Center of attention:

The Mavericks have not given up on the search for a backup center, since it appears the embers have cooled for now on the Rasheed Wallace front. "There's been some increased discussion of late," Donnie Nelson said Saturday. "We're in the hunt to help ourselves with a backup big man."

Mamadou N'diaye's second 10-day contract expires Monday, which could leave a spot on the roster if he is not signed for the rest of the season.

Among bargain-basement centers that may be on the market are Memphis' Jake Tsakalidis, Cleveland's DaSagana Diop or Ruben Boumtje-Boumtje, New Orleans' Sean Rooks or Miami's Loren Woods.

V · 01-25-2004, 12:55 AM

Whoa, if the Mavs get Diop I will donate another $100 to this board.

Chicago JK · 01-25-2004, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
Taken from the DMN.

Center of attention:

The Mavericks have not given up on the search for a backup center, since it appears the embers have cooled for now on the Rasheed Wallace front. "There's been some increased discussion of late," Donnie Nelson said Saturday. "We're in the hunt to help ourselves with a backup big man."

Mamadou N'diaye's second 10-day contract expires Monday, which could leave a spot on the roster if he is not signed for the rest of the season.

Among bargain-basement centers that may be on the market are Memphis' Jake Tsakalidis, Cleveland's DaSagana Diop or Ruben Boumtje-Boumtje, New Orleans' Sean Rooks or Miami's Loren Woods.

Thanks MFF. I will eat my shorts if Diop is at a bargain basement level. Diop may never develop and has injury concerns but there is now way Cleveland gives him away without getting something back pretty exciting. Diop is a huge man who is young and has a low salary. He is a long way from being a productive player but there is no way he is a bargain basement center.

Chicago JK · 01-25-2004, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: ddh33
I hate to classify this team as "beggars" since I don't think they are. But beggars can't be choosers. Anyone of those guys would help this team in some way. I don't think there is anything wrong with having a big body on the bench who can play in a pinch, even if he doesn't play much.

As for my thoughts on the players:
Tsakalidis is huge. He was pretty highly thought of in the draft. I think he fell becuase of a contract and language issue. He's hasn't shown much so far, but he may still develop into something. You can't teach size. However, it's hard to deal with a team in your own division - especially when that team is run by Jerry West. Remember, they need size as much as we do. I don't think he's the guy...

Joel Prizybilla was supposed to be better than this. He's a guy who was drafted high. Unfortunately, injuries have derailed his career. He is a good shotblocker. He would peak my interest; I think he still has a chance. I think Milwaukee might even deal under the right circumstances.

Don't know much about Primoz. I would tend to guess that he follows the stereotype.

Loren Woods has some character issues, along with some back issues. He may be the most obtainable guy on the list though. He was supposed to be better than Duncan once upon a time.

Doleac stays in New York unless he's moved out as part of another blockbuster package. I just think he's worth more to them - or someone else - than he is to the Mavs.

Scott Williams would be a Popeye type guy here. He's battle tested and has hurt Karl Malone. I think Phoenix would want expiring contracts that the Mavs don't have. He would be a good fit though.

Brendan Haywood is the most interesting name on the list. He's got all kinds of potential and ability. He's always been able to rebound and block pretty effectively. I think he would be a great fit here becuase of his ability to run the floor, among other things. I don't know for sure what we would give to get him. My first guess is that it would have to be a package deal.

I guess if I had to put the guys in some order of preference, I would do it as follows:
Haywood
Prizybilla
Tsakalidis
Williams
Doleac
Woods
Brezec

Good analysis DDH33. Good stuff.

V · 01-25-2004, 01:32 AM

I could see Cavs dealing Boom Boom for a PG. Any interest?

The only thing I know about him is that Sheed & Bonzi beaned him in the nuts with a basketball earlier this year.

Dirkenstien · 01-25-2004, 02:45 AM

Diop would be a very good fit here. He has good size and great potential. The question is how much would we be willing to give up to get him here? Who knows..this trade works but we may be giving up a little too much. Thoughts?

Dallas trades: SG Marquis Daniels (4.6 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 10.2 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: C DeSagana Diop (2.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 16.1 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -8.4 ppg, +1.2 rpg, and -0.9 apg.

Cleveland trades: C DeSagana Diop (2.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 16.1 minutes)
Cleveland receives: SG Marquis Daniels (4.6 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25 games)
PG Tony Delk (6.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 29 games)
Change in team outlook: +8.4 ppg, -1.2 rpg, and +0.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

grndmstr_c · 01-25-2004, 04:21 AM

If the Cavs would do Marquis and Delk for Diop, I'd do it.

EricaLubarsky · 01-25-2004, 09:21 AM

heck yeah I would do that. We would be trading a talented guard with a lot of potential and a potentially explosive guard for a center with a heck of a lot of potential.

We develop swingmen WAY better than we develop big men but Diop is a guy you'd want around for a few years with us.

I dont know if there is much of a chance of the trade happening but I would sure as heck do it.

Poindexter Einstein · 01-25-2004, 07:17 PM

The numbers I look at say that Cleve has to send another player (more salary) to Dallas, if they want Delk and Daniels.

Nash13 · 01-25-2004, 07:35 PM

Dallas trades: SG Marquis Daniels (4.6 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 10.2 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: C Loren Woods (3.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.2 apg in 13.5 minutes)
SF John Wallace (4.7 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 11.0 minutes)
PF Samaki Walker (3.9 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 0.2 apg in 14.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +0.7 ppg, +6.3 rpg, and -0.8 apg.

Miami trades: C Loren Woods (3.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.2 apg in 13.5 minutes)
SF John Wallace (4.7 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 11.0 minutes)
PF Samaki Walker (3.9 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 0.2 apg in 14.6 minutes)
Miami receives: SG Marquis Daniels (4.6 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25 games)
PG Tony Delk (6.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 29 games)
Change in team outlook: -0.7 ppg, -6.3 rpg, and +0.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

uberfan · 01-26-2004, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Dirkenstien
Diop would be a very good fit here. He has good size and great potential. The question is how much would we be willing to give up to get him here? Who knows..this trade works but we may be giving up a little too much. Thoughts?

Dallas trades: SG Marquis Daniels (4.6 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 10.2 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: C DeSagana Diop (2.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 16.1 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -8.4 ppg, +1.2 rpg, and -0.9 apg.

Cleveland trades: C DeSagana Diop (2.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 16.1 minutes)
Cleveland receives: SG Marquis Daniels (4.6 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25 games)
PG Tony Delk (6.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 29 games)
Change in team outlook: +8.4 ppg, -1.2 rpg, and +0.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

I doubt that Cavs would ever do this, but it would be a major coup for the Mavs.

kingrex · 01-26-2004, 01:49 PM

I think it's amazing how Josh Howard has been elevated (and deservingly so) to an almost untradable-level among Mavs fans.

I think it speaks alot to the amount of hustle and excellent basketball he has shown.

Jamisonite · 01-26-2004, 02:10 PM

there are only 3 mavs i wouldnt trade....dirk nash n jho

kingrex · 01-26-2004, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Jamisonite
there are only 3 mavs i wouldnt trade....dirk nash n jho

AJ is not your list? Amazing from a poster called "Jamisonite".

EricaLubarsky · 01-26-2004, 02:34 PM

J-Ho is tradable, dont get me wrong but the major detriment (if you can call it that) is that Josh Howard is getting paid first round lottery minimum. There isnt anyone out there getting paid like that that would be worth it. If he was in the 5-10 million mark he would be tradable for a Boozer, Marion or other mid-level star but he's playing like a 5-6 million dollar player and he is getting paid barely over rookie minimum.

Nash13 · 01-26-2004, 02:42 PM

Quote:

There isnt anyone out there getting paid like that that would be worth it.

Actually, Howard gets paid a little more than Boozer, so you could do a straight up trade, but Cleveland isn't that dumb.

Jamisonite · 01-26-2004, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kingrex

Quote:

Originally posted by: Jamisonite
there are only 3 mavs i wouldnt trade....dirk nash n jho

AJ is not your list? Amazing from a poster called "Jamisonite".

AJ is my fav player in the league but im a MAVS fan. And if we gotta trade AJ to improve this team than do it

kingrex · 01-26-2004, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Jamisonite

Quote:

Originally posted by: kingrex

Quote:

Originally posted by: Jamisonite
there are only 3 mavs i wouldnt trade....dirk nash n jho

AJ is not your list? Amazing from a poster called "Jamisonite".

AJ is my fav player in the league but im a MAVS fan. And if we gotta trade AJ to improve this team than do it

So the day AJ was acquired by the Mavs must have been a glorious one for you.

Josh Howard is my favorite Maverick, but then again I've always loved the Maverick who played the best defense and who showed the most fight. This goes back to Adrian Griffin, to Buckner and all the way back to Sam Perkins even.

ddh33 · 01-26-2004, 06:02 PM

Would a Tony Delk+Trade exception for Joel Prizybilla+Erik Strickland work?

Strick has fallen behind Damon Jones in Milwaukee, and he has ties to this team. We could always use his defense and toughness. If Travis Best moves on in the offseason, Strick would be good PG insurance while also providing some ability to play the 2.
Prizybilla is still young and big, albeit injury prone. Once upon a time, I thought he would be a solid center in this league.

kingrex · 01-26-2004, 06:36 PM

do the salaries workout on that Delk for Strick & Pryz trade?

ddh33 · 01-26-2004, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kingrex
do the salaries workout on that Delk for Strick & Pryz trade?

I don't know. That's why I asked...

I have read somewhere (possibly here) that Milwaukee is dangerously close to the luxury tax. I know that Prizybilla isn't playing (probably due to some injuries), and Strick has fallen out of the regular rotation. I just thought this might be a somewhat feasible and reasonable trade, in theory. Milwaukee doesn't seem to lose any production and Dallas gets a couple of guys who might be able to contribute.

By the way, I think Tony Delk has received an awful lot of unfair treatment for some of this team's struggles. He's fought injuries all year and still managed to put up some pretty good numbers. Just like Best, I still think there is a good chance that he can come back to this team and contribute. I just don't think he's really found his role yet. I'm not ready to give up on him yet...

My preference at this point is to bring in someone without giving anything up. We don't need someone who will demand minutes unless we send out someone who is demanding minutes. Who do you want to part with? I still like Scott Williams if he becomes a available. I think Jelani McCoy might be able to help some too.

bcrav4 · 01-26-2004, 11:44 PM

Do you think Melvin Ely would be better than the backup centers mentioned in the article????

bcrav4 · 01-27-2004, 12:22 AM

Also.....remember the last time the Star-Telegram posted an article like this (w/names of N-Daiye, Tyrone Hill, Jelani McCoy) we got N'Daiye. So maybe we can assume that we will be getting one of the names off this list!!!

ddh33 · 01-27-2004, 01:19 AM

I usually prefer young with potential as compared to old and maxed out. So, Ely would be one of my top choices. I think he has a lot of ability...

For a Nellie coached team, I do think that the best fit would be an old veteran with a lot of experience, savvy, and know-how. I think Scott Williams would be a good fit here, even though he isn't a long term answer. If he can stay healthy, he can provide a lot of what we need in limited minutes.