Mavs vs Kings - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

David · 02-23-2002, 08:40 PM

The last few seasons, when the Mavs have played the Kings, I've felt that the Kings were the better team going into the game. I wasn't sure going into the game today. After watching this game, I feel that the Mavs are now better than Sacramento. The Kings have the best record in the NBA and I feel that the Mavs are the better team. How about that?

Bring on the Lakers. I want to see how yourdallasmavericks match up against them now. Just wait until the new guys get used to playing with the old guys. That's ONE deep Mavs squad.

Fortunately, optimism doesn't seem to be a dirty word on this board like it is on others.

seelenjaeger · 02-23-2002, 08:50 PM

Anyone to backup my idea, that Nellie actually run some "Denver" plays last night to get LaF and VanE some good moments?

#41 · 02-24-2002, 05:44 AM

Dirk had 21 DEFENSIVE boards, looks like an NBA record this year? Anyone of you knows?

#41 · 02-24-2002, 05:46 AM

Shaq's career high is 18!

Joe Joe · 02-24-2002, 05:56 AM

Look at Elton Brands rebounds for the night, not only defensive rebounds but offensive rebounds too. That shows a real rebounder, however not everyone can get that many defensive rebound or that many period. Brand had more offensive rebounds(11) than defensive rebounds(10). That shows a real rebounder right there, and he is not 7ft. Keep up the good work Elton and Dirk, great guys.

Epitome22 · 02-24-2002, 07:19 AM

True Brand is MUCH more of an offensive board crasher than Dirk but if you get 21 rebounds in one game, even if they are all defensive, that is quite a feat.

Joe Joe · 02-24-2002, 09:23 AM

I agree Epitome, that's exactly why I gave props to the both of them.

David · 02-24-2002, 11:21 AM

<< True Brand is MUCH more of an offensive board crasher than Dirk but if you get 21 rebounds in one game, even if they are all defensive, that is quite a feat. >>

You don't catch Elton out by the 3 point line on offense. He is strictly an inside post player. Most of the time on offense, Dirk is not that near to the basket. It is offensive strategy that keeps Dirk from offensive rebounds. Dirk is so multi-demensional on offense that it would screw up the entire team to just play him near the basket. That would be making things easier on the other team.

dallmav · 02-24-2002, 12:32 PM

Joe Joe,

Just because you can get offensive or defensive rebounds, that doesnt make you a true rebounder. If you say dirk is not a rebounder because most of his rebounds are defensive, than something i wrong with you man. Im not trying to dish you, but come on. Elton and Dirk are two totally different people. Dirk plays mostly perimeter, where elton plays mostly post. That would mean that elton would have more offensive rebounds than dirk. Dirk plays perimeter and takes a lot of 3s and 18 ft jump shots, and most of the shots for the mavericks at times. sS most offensive rebounds dont bounce way out where he is when he is shooting. Elton is a great player and I would love to have him on the mavs, But you cant tell me that just because he gets more offensive rebounds, that he is better than dirk.

Joe Joe · 02-24-2002, 03:05 PM

Still making excuses as to why theirs no offensive rebounds gathered by him. Wahad had 1, and that was more than a guy who played 46 or so minutes. Hey, who's counting though? You all call him a post up player, yet he's "always" out on the perimeter I do not get that. It is not like I said he is an bad rebounder, hell I gave props to the both of them. On offense, Elton can step out in knock down the open jumper. You seen that in the Win(s) and lost(1) against Dallas. Whoever said he was better than Dirk, I do not get the crap when you put words into my mouth. I never said he is better than anyone, now did I? No I didn't man, I said Elton is a true rebounder that's it. I didn't say "oh he is better than Dirk" blah blah blah.

Bayliss · 02-24-2002, 04:15 PM

Joe Joe.... let me guess... you think Odom is a pure shooter too, right?

Joe Joe · 02-24-2002, 04:19 PM

Bayliss let me guess you have no life, no wife, or even 1 single friend right?

Bayliss · 02-24-2002, 04:28 PM

Well if I'm "debating" with you, then it's pretty obvious to everyone that I have no life.

I can't believe that you think a person that grabs 10 boards a game (8.5 of those on the defensive end) is not a pure rebounder. Dirk didn't start out as one but he is now.

And one more thing about offense rebounds vs. defensive rebounds.... Dallas needs defensive rebounds **more** than offensive rebounds. Why you might ask. Simple: if Dallas rebounds their end of the court then they limit the opponent from scoring (which has been a prob with Dallas all year). So I'd take defensive rebounds over offensive rebounds any day of the week.

aexchange · 02-24-2002, 04:40 PM

listen its simple.

the reason nowitzki gets fewer offensive rebounds is b/c
1. whereas brand spends 90% of his time in the paint on the offensive end, nowitzki might spend 20%. that means brand is going to get more opportunities.
2. dallas makes a higher percentage of shots than the clips, meaning there are going to be fewer opportunities to grab offensive boards.

joe joe, whats with all the hostility man? nobody insulted you, and yet your getting your panties all bunched up.

Joe Joe · 02-24-2002, 04:46 PM

OK Bayliss sure man whatever you say, all I know is that I am not going to debate with a person like you. I wont even go as far as saying a "man" like you. It is obvious you know nothing about basketball so just drop it. I never said Dirk wasn't a real rebounder, now did I? Nope, so once again either you can't read or you failed to read my whole post. Dirk is a avg to good rebounder for a 7ftr, I just hesitate to put him in that elite group of rebounders like Fortson, Duncan, Wallace, Garnett, or Brand.(I am sure I failed to miss a guy, or maybe 2) That's it, I never said he isn't a good rebounder. I know he is a good rebouner, I know that!

Epitome22 · 02-24-2002, 05:01 PM

Perhaps the more correct term would be the elton Brand is a more of a Complete rebounder than Dirk.

Bayliss · 02-24-2002, 05:08 PM

<< Perhaps the more correct term would be the elton Brand is a more of a Complete rebounder than Dirk. >>

That would only be the case if Brand grabbed more defensive rebounds than Dirk.

Nope... the correct terms are:

Dirk's a better defensive rebounder.
Brand's a better offensive rebounder.

And since the Mavs have a lot of O I'd rather have the D.

Joe Joe · 02-24-2002, 05:12 PM

Are you kidding? Elton Brand is a better O and D rebounder man, get real. Dirk has noone to battle for boards now that Juwan is gone. Brand does, and has alot to battle within his own teammates. Get real man, you must be joking.

Bayliss · 02-24-2002, 05:15 PM

Um, yeah let me get real since you alter facts:

Fact 1: Dirk averages 8.5 defensive rebounds a game
Fact 2: Brand averages 6.9 defensive rebounds a game.

Well, gee by those numbers it clearly shows that Dirk is a better defensive rebounder than Brand.

So like I said:

Dirk is a better defensive rebounder... Brand is a better offensive rebounder.

seelenjaeger · 02-24-2002, 05:22 PM

or lets say it this way:

bayliss is AN more complete poster

joejoe is the better trash poster without having facts to support his statements
bayliss is the better fact poster with far more reason within his words

HANDS DOWN

Joe Joe · 02-24-2002, 05:24 PM

We both know who the better rebounder is Bayliss, Ok how about this. Brand is the better shooter his % on the year is .515 and Dirks is only .472. So what you think about that? I am looking at the total here, Brand averages more rebounds a game. He also has a better % on the year on FG's, so what you got to say now?

Bayliss · 02-24-2002, 05:31 PM

Well Joe Joe... let's go to ESPN and find out shall we?

Elton Brand's FG% is .515
Dirk Nowitzki's FG% is .472

Elton Brand's Adj FG& is .515
Dirk Nowitzki's Adj FG% is .527

The adjusted FG% factors in 3 Point shooting as well.

So on the surface it appears Brand is a better shooter. But in reality based on **facts** Brand does not shoot better than Dirk.

Joe Joe · 02-24-2002, 05:39 PM

Nope, I dont buy it. You have been proven wrong, just admit it man. We aren't adjusting a darn thing. I just provided the #'s yet you still try to post crap like you just did. The fact of the matter is Elton shoots .515 on FG's and Dirk shoots .472. Elton Averages 11.50 rpg, and Dirk averages 10.10 rpg. Those are the facts, anything else is garbage.

MavKikiNYC · 02-24-2002, 05:42 PM

21, 23, 12, 10, 10, 8, 9, 9, 17, 15, 10.....

Dirk's last eleven boarding games.

In the words of Eddie "Cleanhead" Vinson:

"I buy my woman a five-course dinner
She says, "Thanks for the snack."

I buy my baby a brand new Lincoln
She says, "But I wanted a Cadilliac."

I build my baby a big ol' brick house
She says, "It ain't nothin' but a shack."

What does Dirk gotta do for women like Joe Joe to give him his props?

Joe Joe · 02-24-2002, 05:52 PM

If I am not mistaken the uneducated MavKiKi, I gave Dirk his props. Maybe you need to go back to school and learn how to read. Cause I know for a fact I gave props to not only Brand but Dirk too. It sure pisses me off that some of you guys can't read, and you think you're an adult.

MavKikiNYC · 02-24-2002, 06:11 PM

Then why you try to compare him to some sawed-off 'tweener like Brand?
You give the German no respect.

And stop using the word 'piss'. My mother reads this board.

Joe Joe · 02-24-2002, 06:18 PM

Who cares if your mother reads this board, I am sure it's nothing she's never said or seen before herself. That sawed off tweener is 1 of the best PF's in the game, and I can compare him to anyone I want too. I give the German alot of respect, I just don't see why you guys like riding his testicles. I can see if he was in this all by his lonesome but he isn't. Maybe it is time for you all to give Nash and Finley a little more respect. They are the 2 this team relies on so heavily, especially Nash. Where Nash goes, this team goes. If he isn't up to par, the teams not. Fin is the leader of this team this year, but he wont be when he's playing elsewhere next year. You guys will regret the day Fin leaves this team, I guarantee that.

MavKikiNYC · 02-24-2002, 06:37 PM

LOL..

You're falling way behind Jojo, if you haven't noticed the volume of posts in acknowledgment of Finley, Nash and even Juwan Howard, by myself and others.

Poll GMs around the league and not three would take Brand over Nowitzki.

P.S. And you'll do well not to speculate about my mother, me, or testicles until your own drop--if and when.

MFFL · 02-24-2002, 07:50 PM

<< Bayliss let me guess you have no life, no wife, or even 1 single friend right? >>

I would hope this counts as a strike. This seems to be a personal insult.

Road Rage · 02-24-2002, 08:09 PM

<< If I am not mistaken the uneducated MavKiKi >>

Does anybody else see the irony of RCF calling someone uneducated? A man (or boy) who can't even form a complete sentence?

Epitome22 · 02-24-2002, 08:15 PM

Now we're dissing Brand because of his height? Geez guys, that sawed off tweener is leading the league in offensive rebounds and outrebounds Dirk overall. The Man is a beast with a very high percentage shot second to none but Shaq probably who's much larger. that sawed off tweener also blocks twice as many shots a Dirk does. It's not a fault to admit that Dirk, good as he is and will be may not be as strong as other players in other areas.

I dunno about Finley. I think he may be a tad overrated, but Nash is definitly the straw that stirs the punch. Nowitzki called him the heart & soul of the team.

djb · 02-24-2002, 08:27 PM

<< Bayliss let me guess you have no life, no wife, or even 1 single friend right? >>

<< If I am not mistaken the uneducated MavKiKi, I gave Dirk his props. Maybe you need to go back to school and learn how to read. Cause I know for a fact I gave props to not only Brand but Dirk too. It sure pisses me off that some of you guys can't read, and you think you're an adult. >>

This shit is getting old Joe Joe. Consider this your first strike/warning. If you haven't already, please read the bulletin regarding this site's newly implemented 4-Strike Policy. Since your pm's are currently turned off, we were unable to send you this warning privately.

Joe Joe · 02-24-2002, 08:35 PM

That's all I was saying Epitome, I didn't say that Elton was better, nor did I say Dirk was better. Though some of you actually knock the guy because of his height, when even though he is shorter than most of the good PF's in the league he's still 1 of the best in the game. Elton Brand is a damn good PF, tall or short compared to other PF's. Dirk's taller than most PF's but noone says "oh he should be able to score that many points, he can just shoot over them." No 1 does that, but you knock Brand when his job is harder to do than Dirks, with him being shorter(according to some of you). Come on guys, the members on this board surely wont stoop that low to try and win an debate. You guys give Dirk a lot of credit, rightfully so, but it's about darn time Stevie Nash gets some credit. This team begins and ends with him. I think everyone knows that, well everyone but a few of the members on this board. Dirk knows, Steve knows, Nellie knows, heck everyone knows but some of you!!

MFFL-A strike for what? Are you kidding me?

Road Rage-Look for someone else to argue with, cause I don't have the time!

Bayliss · 02-24-2002, 08:55 PM

<< The Man is a beast with a very high percentage shot second to none but Shaq probably who's much larger. that sawed off tweener also blocks twice as many shots a Dirk does. It's not a fault to admit that Dirk, good as he is and will be may not be as strong as other players in other areas. >>

And the same could be said for Elton Brand... as good as **he (Brand)** is he may not be as strong as other players in other areas (ie defensive rebounding).