OFFICIAL: Andrew Bogut traded to Dallas - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

j0Shi · 07-07-2016, 09:35 AM

It's official. We get a second in 2019 and send a conditional second-round pick back.

T-Mac: "The protection on the conditional second-round pick makes it unlikely that the Mavs will actually give up anything."

slim · 07-07-2016, 11:41 PM

Warriors fan here...

I think you folks are going to like Bogut quite a bit.

Yes, he's fragile, can't play big minutes and isn't at his best every game. But, he's a great defender, rim protector, shot blocker, passer, screen setter, and tough guy. His basketball IQ is way up there. Players say he's great at reading the other team's offense and shouting out help instructions. He can't make free throws and hates to shoot, though he has his moments when his damaged elbow is feeling OK. He's not fast, but he's very nimble and coordinated. He'll win games for you sometimes.

Plus, he's got an irreverent wit and makes for a refreshing, sometimes in a cranky way, interview.

I wish he could be around for next season, but the cap didn't permit. I hope Zaza is an OK replacement. I realize he's not the rim protector Bogut is, but it seems he's more of a scorer.

Underdog · 07-07-2016, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slim

I hope Zaza is an OK replacement. I realize he's not the rim protector Bogut is, but it seems he's more of a scorer.

Zaza is almost the polar opposite of Bogut -- good scorer with some range, but not much of a defender... Also has a good sense of humor and likable personality, so it seems like an even swap there. Would love to see him win a championship.

If nothing, he'll be excellent value for the price.

EricaLubarsky · 07-08-2016, 12:14 AM

Andrew Bogut's stats and game are almost identical to 2011 Tyson Chandler's

Tyson 13pts, 12reb, 1.4blk, 0.6stl, 65% FG
Bogut 9.3 pts, 12.2 reb, 2.8blk, 0.8stl, 63% FG

tap2390 · 07-08-2016, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Andrew Bogut's stats and game are almost identical to 2011 Tyson Chandler's

Tyson 13pts, 12reb, 1.4blk, 0.6stl, 65% FG
Bogut 9.3 pts, 12.2 reb, 2.8blk, 0.8stl, 63% FG

What? Bogut averaged 5/7 last season and 10/9 with 1.6 blocks for his career.

I like the pickup but Bogut can't be expected to play more than 20 mpg at this point. Let's hope he teaches Mejri and Hammons about professionalism, passing, and defense.

Underdog · 07-08-2016, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Andrew Bogut's stats and game are almost identical to 2011 Tyson Chandler's

Tyson 13pts, 12reb, 1.4blk, 0.6stl, 65% FG
Bogut 9.3 pts, 12.2 reb, 2.8blk, 0.8stl, 63% FG

Per-36 numbers?

EricaLubarsky · 07-08-2016, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Per-36 numbers?

Yeah sorry. Working on my phone and lost edit that clarified that.

bunkmoreland · 07-08-2016, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slim

Warriors fan here...

I think you folks are going to like Bogut quite a bit.

Yes, he's fragile, can't play big minutes and isn't at his best every game. But, he's a great defender, rim protector, shot blocker, passer, screen setter, and tough guy. His basketball IQ is way up there. Players say he's great at reading the other team's offense and shouting out help instructions. He can't make free throws and hates to shoot, though he has his moments when his damaged elbow is feeling OK. He's not fast, but he's very nimble and coordinated. He'll win games for you sometimes.

Plus, he's got an irreverent wit and makes for a refreshing, sometimes in a cranky way, interview.

I wish he could be around for next season, but the cap didn't permit. I hope Zaza is an OK replacement. I realize he's not the rim protector Bogut is, but it seems he's more of a scorer.

Thanks for the input. I hope you are right.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-08-2016, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Zaza is almost the polar opposite of Bogut -- good scorer with some range, but not much of a defender... Also has a good sense of humor and likable personality, so it seems like an even swap there. Would love to see him win a championship.

If nothing, he'll be excellent value for the price.

Zaza almost completely lost his mid range jump shot last season. He was able to score off a few running pnrs and off garbage but not much more.

It'll be interesting to see if Bogut has a resurgence the same way Zaza did here...and even more interesting if we run Bogut into the ground doing it. I think with Mejri, Hammons and probably Powell that it hopefully won't happen that way.

tap2390 · 07-08-2016, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Andrew Bogut's stats and game are almost identical to 2011 Tyson Chandler's

Tyson 13pts, 12reb, 1.4blk, 0.6stl, 65% FG
Bogut 9.3 pts, 12.2 reb, 2.8blk, 0.8stl, 63% FG

Sorry, but I don't like this comparison at all. In 2010-11 Chandler was 28 and averaged about 28 mpg. Bogut will be 32, and his minutes have gone down the last three seasons. In bursts he will effective as long as his minutes are managed, but let's not kid ourselves and think he'll have the impact Tyson did.

bunkmoreland · 07-08-2016, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Sorry, but I don't like this comparison at all. In 2010-11 Chandler was 28 and averaged about 28 mpg. Bogut will be 32, and his minutes have gone down the last three seasons. In bursts he will effective as long as his minutes are managed, but let's not kid ourselves and think he'll have the impact Tyson did.

As long as his minutes are managed, as you say.
I'm really hoping Rick will limit his minutes and play the young guys...exactly what he did not do with ZaZa.

Melonhead · 07-08-2016, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Zaza almost completely lost his mid range jump shot last season. He was able to score off a few running pnrs and off garbage but not much more.

It'll be interesting to see if Bogut has a resurgence the same way Zaza did here...and even more interesting if we run Bogut into the ground doing it. I think with Mejri, Hammons and probably Powell that it hopefully won't happen that way.

Please dont do this RC. Because our roster is similar to last seasons, Im afraid RC will commit same mistakes. Mejri limited minutes and/or Curry not getting minutes to get comfortable etc.

EricaLubarsky · 07-08-2016, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Sorry, but I don't like this comparison at all. In 2010-11 Chandler was 28 and averaged about 28 mpg. Bogut will be 32, and his minutes have gone down the last three seasons. In bursts he will effective as long as his minutes are managed, but let's not kid ourselves and think he'll have the impact Tyson did.

I don't really care what you feel, because your feelings (and the age argument) do nothing to address the fact that the cold, hard numbers show that Bogut has a simile game. I also never claimed that Bogut would be Chandler 2.0 or even 1.0, but they are similar.

The fact is, Bogut has a very similar game and impact when on the court. He's a defensive guy who will score inside and pull down some boards. I'm well aware of the age (Chandler has gotten old too), but in 20-25 min he's going to be solid and have the sort of impact that Tyson had in a similar manner. That style of game really works for us-- more so than the type of game Zaza had.

Will he win us a championship? No way this squad Gets out of the second round. Will he play 40mpg? Let's hope not. Will he have Chandler-like production in his minutes out there? The numbers say yes.

tap2390 · 07-08-2016, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I don't really care what you feel, because your feelings (and the age argument) do nothing to address the fact that the cold, hard numbers show that Bogut has a simile game. I also never claimed that Bogut would be Chandler 2.0 or even 1.0, but they are similar.

The fact is, Bogut has a very similar game and impact when on the court. He's a defensive guy who will score inside and pull down some boards. I'm well aware of the age (Chandler has gotten old too), but in 20-25 min he's going to be solid and have the sort of impact that Tyson had in a similar manner. That style of game really works for us-- more so than the type of game Zaza had.

Will he win us a championship? No way this squad Gets out of the second round. Will he play 40mpg? Let's hope not. Will he have Chandler-like production in his minutes out there? The numbers say yes.

But they aren't similar. You're inflating a guy who plays limited minutes to 36 per to make your point. My point is Bogut won't be on the floor long enough to make the impact you think he will. My other point is his age, injury issues, and lack of mobility also don't bode well.

No my argument isn't based on FEELINGS, it's based on facts, something you don't seem to have a grip on recently.

BigDog63 · 07-08-2016, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slim

Warriors fan here...

I think you folks are going to like Bogut quite a bit.

Yes, he's fragile, can't play big minutes and isn't at his best every game. But, he's a great defender, rim protector, shot blocker, passer, screen setter, and tough guy. His basketball IQ is way up there. Players say he's great at reading the other team's offense and shouting out help instructions. He can't make free throws and hates to shoot, though he has his moments when his damaged elbow is feeling OK. He's not fast, but he's very nimble and coordinated. He'll win games for you sometimes.

Plus, he's got an irreverent wit and makes for a refreshing, sometimes in a cranky way, interview.

I wish he could be around for next season, but the cap didn't permit. I hope Zaza is an OK replacement. I realize he's not the rim protector Bogut is, but it seems he's more of a scorer.

Seems like a good run-down, of both players.

I think you'll be pleased with Zaza. There was a lot of talk about him being a potential All Star before he ran out of gas in the second half. Yes, not the rim defender that Bogut is (which Dallas desperately needed) but otherwise very similar, and probably is a better scorer. He was a double double machine.

slim · 07-08-2016, 12:05 PM

That's encouraging about Zaza. As great as the Warriors were offensively, there were times where their inability to get points out of their conventional centers hurt them. The Warriors have lost lots of rim protection, though, with the departures of Bogut and Festus. They need to find some without having to place too much of a burden during the regular season on Draymond Green and KD. That's for another team's board, though.

I don't think overplaying Bogut will be an option. Some players just can't handle the minutes. My guess is that he'll make it clear that he just can't play big minutes regularly. He won't bite his tongue. There will be games or short stretches of games where he just doesn't have it, where his body won't let him be at his best. This is where he's at in his career. And he's coming off of a knee injury that looked bad when it happened, but didn't end up requiring surgery. 20 minutes a night, 65 games a year is about what you can expect. He might feel good and exceed that by a little. Quality, not quantity, in this case.

One way in which he's not a reluctant scorer is on alley oops. Maybe Carlisle can get him to be more willing to shoot in other situations. I think the Warriors wanted him to, but he wouldn't. There are shots he can make. It's that he doesn't trust his elbow and he doesn't want to have to go to the line. Or so it seems. I don't pretend to be in any of these guy's heads.

His impact on the game is similar to Chandler's, but he does it in somewhat different ways.

I wouldn't be concerned about lack of mobility unless this knee issue lingers. He's not going to be racing up and down the floor, but in the half court, his agility more than makes up for his lack of foot speed or visible quickness. He moves better than you might expect. He's one of those players who sees and reacts more quickly than most, which makes up for some athletic shortcomings. Barnes, alas, has been at the other end of the spectrum in that regard, though I'm hoping that the change of scenery helps him.

Thebo · 07-08-2016, 12:36 PM

I do not think Mavs have any need for Bogut to play more than 20 minutes a night. I am not so confident that Carlisle will go with it, though. I hope that he will use Bogut like that from the day 1, which would give younger guys more chance to improve. The goal should be to get Bogut to the playoffs healthy.

GSW on the other hand will miss a lot of defending. Matchup against SAS will be very interesting since Spurs went bigger this offseason. Also, I am not so confident that Duncan has retired for good. He might return next spring. I will only be convinced of his retirement once SAS is playing the first playoff game and he is not in the lineup. It is hard to believe that Duncan is already out for good.

Underdog · 07-08-2016, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slim

I wouldn't be concerned about lack of mobility unless this knee issue lingers. He's not going to be racing up and down the floor, but in the half court, his agility more than makes up for his lack of foot speed or visible quickness. He moves better than you might expect. He's one of those players who sees and reacts more quickly than most, which makes up for some athletic shortcomings.

Fans around here love drawing comparisons to the 2011 team, but this part actually makes Bogut sound more like Kidd than Chandler.

slim · 07-08-2016, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

this part actually makes Bogut sound more like Kidd than Chandler.

Interesting thought and a good call. Bogut has that kind of deep and quick intellect for the game that Kidd did, though I'm not so sure he has the singular passion for it that Kidd does.

spreedom · 07-08-2016, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Andrew Bogut's stats and game are almost identical to 2011 Tyson Chandler's

Tyson 13pts, 12reb, 1.4blk, 0.6stl, 65% FG
Bogut 9.3 pts, 12.2 reb, 2.8blk, 0.8stl, 63% FG

BTW, I'm not saying, but... Bogut for Tyson works straight-up in a trade. If Tyson has a bounce-back first 50 games this year and it's apparent that Bogut isn't a long-term fit, I wouldn't be totally opposed to a trade like that. With the looming cap increase (I think estimates have dropped it to about $104M next year, of which Tyson's contract would take 12.5%).

I honestly see Tyson being a relatively sought-after player this upcoming trade deadline or next summer... what was initially looking like a pretty big reach by Phoenix is turning out to be pretty freaking reasonable if you think the guy can still anchor a defense and get some rebounds.

Thebo · 07-08-2016, 06:46 PM

I say no to Tyson. Nothing against him but I am sure he has something against the Mavs front office. I also would rather have some younger center than him. He brings leadership to a team, everything else can be replaced by some other player.

It is more likely that Suns want to trade his contract, rather than simply teams going after him. I still prefer Bogut and his contract over Tyson.

rimrocker · 07-08-2016, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebo

I say no to Tyson. Nothing against him but I am sure he has something against the Mavs front office. I also would rather have some younger center than him. He brings leadership to a team, everything else can be replaced by some other player.

It is more likely that Suns want to trade his contract, rather than simply teams going after him. I still prefer Bogut and his contract over Tyson.

I think it might depend on Mejri and Hammons. If those two are productive I could see the Mavs trading for TC if Bledsoe would somehow be part of the package.
Or maybe if Bogut suffers a major injury before the deadline I could see that as a possible trade situation.

MFFL · 07-08-2016, 08:21 PM

Not a complimentary piece

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...s-and-reaction

NeedlesKane · 07-10-2016, 07:50 PM

I am curious. Is he the 4th #1 overall pick to become a member of the Mavericks association? The first that I am aware of is the best. Who? Mark Aguirre. Since the new millennium the Mavs have had Danny Manning and Elton Brand.

Underdog · 07-12-2016, 07:33 PM

@espn_macmahon: Rick Carlisle on Andrew Bogut: "He's a top-five center as a defender without question. He's a premier rim protector, he's one of the best centers at taking charges, and he really understands the game. Offensively, we're going to look to get him involved. He'll be a guy we look to throw to on the inside some, and we know he's a great passer and a great roller."

DoYouEvenLift · 07-12-2016, 09:55 PM

I know the Warriors didn't have much choice due to available cap space and for 2 million why not Zaza but I am not yet convinced it will translate to championship at least for next season. I'm not sure Durant is as good a defender as Barnes although absolutely he's 30x the offensive player but overall Durant is not a lock down defender. Zaza does nothing for their defense either. Who is the backup center to Zaza? David West? I don't even know.

They already put up almost all time great numbers on the offensive end and weren't a defensive stud team this past season and I expect the defense to get quite a bit worse and I'm just not sure how much better the offense can get. Are they going to average 120 ppg? I guess they could even though it's never been done before as there's still only so many possessions per game and one ball. I think they will lose in the Finals again this next season then get a better center next summer and win it in 2017-2018. When Bogut got injured in Game 5 of the Finals they proceeded to lose 3 games in a row to the Cavs, he is a big loss for them and they lost their other centers too. It's been proven time and time again with early 2000 Mavs mid 2000 Suns that great offenses don't translate to championships. I'm not even sure Warriors would have a championship in 2015 if not for so many injuries to their opponents.

Underdog · 07-13-2016, 08:36 PM

@espn_macmahon: The Warriors gave Andrew Bogut the option of choosing between Dallas and Houston as his trade destination, according to league sources. The Rockets were willing to make the same deal that the Mavs made to get the big man from Golden State. Philadelphia also showed heavy interest, but the Warriors felt they owed it to Bogut to send him to a team with realistic playoff hopes.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-13-2016, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

@espn_macmahon: The Warriors gave Andrew Bogut the option of choosing between Dallas and Houston as his trade destination, according to league sources. The Rockets were willing to make the same deal that the Mavs made to get the big man from Golden State. Philadelphia also showed heavy interest, but the Warriors felt they owed it to Bogut to send him to a team with realistic playoff hopes.

Repost this on clutchfail.

mac222b · 07-13-2016, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoYouEvenLift

I know the Warriors didn't have much choice due to available cap space and for 2 million why not Zaza but I am not yet convinced it will translate to championship at least for next season. I'm not sure Durant is as good a defender as Barnes although absolutely he's 30x the offensive player but overall Durant is not a lock down defender. Zaza does nothing for their defense either. Who is the backup center to Zaza? David West? I don't even know.

They already put up almost all time great numbers on the offensive end and weren't a defensive stud team this past season and I expect the defense to get quite a bit worse and I'm just not sure how much better the offense can get. Are they going to average 120 ppg? I guess they could even though it's never been done before as there's still only so many possessions per game and one ball. I think they will lose in the Finals again this next season then get a better center next summer and win it in 2017-2018. When Bogut got injured in Game 5 of the Finals they proceeded to lose 3 games in a row to the Cavs, he is a big loss for them and they lost their other centers too. It's been proven time and time again with early 2000 Mavs mid 2000 Suns that great offenses don't translate to championships. I'm not even sure Warriors would have a championship in 2015 if not for so many injuries to their opponents.

Bogut will be tough to replace but The fall off from Barnes to Durant shouldn't be much if at all. They still have time to find a rim protector through trade or buyout etc.

Underdog · 07-13-2016, 11:10 PM

Dubs don't need defense when they're dropping 145 per game...

EricaLubarsky · 07-13-2016, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Dubs don't need defense when they're dropping 145 per game...

And that's what got Don Nelson a ring for every finger.

DoYouEvenLift · 07-14-2016, 10:48 AM

Warriors were pretty good defensively in 2015 not to mention all the injuries to other teams players I will believe Warriors are champs next season when I see it. I'll laugh when Durant Curry Klay and Green all go cold at the same time in a Game 6 or 7 they turn over the ball can't get stops and they choke. I've seen it happen already this past season just with Durant doing it on the Thunder and the rest of the Warriors doing it themselves. I do not believe these are the type of players to handle the pressure of being a super team and just go out and win it their first season together.

May seem like it but I'm not hating I do believe next summer they find a better center and with their overall talent they find a way to win it in 2017-2018 I just am not seeing it this next season.

Underdog · 07-14-2016, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Repost this on clutchfail.

Gotta love the fact that no matter how hard the Mavs fall on their face, the Rockets find a way to fall even harder...

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-14-2016, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Gotta love the fact that no matter how hard the Mavs fall on their face, the Rockets find a way to fall even harder...

Their woes made last season for us a lot more tolerable.

Plus, I think there is some bad blood there from when GS played Houston in the conference finals.

Underdog · 08-01-2016, 04:25 PM

Bogut plays in game for first time since injury

Underdog · 08-01-2016, 10:44 PM

@ESPNSteinLine: First two locks in men's basketball in Rio: Team USA wins the gold and @AndrewBogut is the first name on my All-Interview Team ballot ...

EricaLubarsky · 08-02-2016, 12:10 PM

Andrew Bogut criticizes Olympic Village accommodations
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/olym...cid=spartandhp

Quote:

Australia basketball center Andrew Bogut criticized the standard of the accommodations at the Olympic Village in a series of tweets he posted on Monday night.

At 7:30 ET Bogut retweeted his Australian teammate David Andersen that he had just arrived in Rio de Janeiro, where the Olympics are scheduled to begin on Friday. “Exciting times ahead,” Andersen tweeted.

But just under three hours later, Bogut tweeted that he had arrived at the Olympic Village and was less than pleased with its state.

“In the OLY village,” Bogut wrote. “Upon first looks its only fitting I will be posting pics with the hashtag #IOCLuxuryLodging.”

Bogut followed the tweet with an image of himself putting together a shower curtain, among other tweets criticizing the lodging situation.

Australia was the first team to complain about the problems with the Village, even before a fire in the basement of the building housing the Australian delegation forced the team to evacuate and thieves stole a number of their belongings, including laptops and clothing.

Underdog · 08-03-2016, 02:29 PM

Dallas Mavericks: Andrew Bogut’s Take on Rio

EricaLubarsky · 08-06-2016, 02:34 PM

Bogut had 18pts, 4reb, 5ast, 1blk in 23 min of play and was +28 on 90% FG% in a rout of France

chumdawg · 08-06-2016, 02:52 PM

I am so gloomy today!