Dallas-Mavs.com Forums
Old 02-13-2018, 12:45 PM   #601
Magnum_3_Ball
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 591
Magnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MavzMan View Post
OK, you've got my curiosity. What is your reasoning for taking Trae Young ahead of Bamba when we already have DSJ? Do you consider Bamba to be that much of a project? If we were to draft TY, how does a TY and DSJ work?
I think people make too much of the we already have X, so we can't have Y notion. If Portland thought that way, they never would of drafted CJ McCollum after they already had Damian Lillard. There's proof two 6-3 guards can work together.

It's not ideal, but it can work, and taking a player who works out is always better than taking a player who doesn't even if there's some redundancy.

Imo, Trae Young has one of the highest ceilings of anyone in this draft. I don't see comparisons to Steph as unattainable for him. If I'm going to miss on a guy, I'd rather miss on someone with that type of ceiling because championships are won by teams with top 10 players in the league, not the center for the 3rd string All NBA defensive team.

I also think comparisons to Gobert for Bamba aren't as realistic. Gobert had more of an NBA body from day 1. Bamba is going to need his rookie season just to get to where Gobert's body was his rookie year. And Gobert didn't do much his rookie year, he was still adding muscle & getting accustomed to the NBA.

How is Bamba going to do mentally & emotionally when he comes in as a top 5 draft pick & doesn't experience much success his first 2 years? He might have the maturity to keep grinding away & be just fine. His potential is still multi-year All Star, but there's also the potential that he cracks under that type of pressure. I don't think it's a good sign that in college he already is taking plays off & doesn't box out. I also think his shot needs a major overhaul & if he doesn't have an above average work ethic, then he's not going to develop an NBA jump shot.

Last edited by Magnum_3_Ball; 02-13-2018 at 12:46 PM.
Magnum_3_Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-13-2018, 12:46 PM   #602
Underdog
Moderator
 
Underdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
Underdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond repute
Default

DeAndre Ayton
Michael Porter
Jaren Jackson
Marvin Bagley
Luka Doncic
Mo Bamba
Mikal Bridges
__________________

These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Underdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2018, 12:52 PM   #603
Magnum_3_Ball
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 591
Magnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura about
Default

I'm more confident in my rankings now.

Tier 1
Luka Doncic
DeAndre Ayton

Tier 2
Jaren Jackson Jr
Trae Young

Tier 3
Mo Bamba
Mikal Bridges

Tier 4
Marvin Bagley III
Wendell Carter Jr
Collin Sexton


Undraftable: Michael Porter Jr. Would not draft him with a 1st round pick. The performance of players post discectomy surgery is clear. Porter Jr should be avoided like the plague.
Magnum_3_Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2018, 02:15 PM   #604
Bryan_Wilson
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,694
Bryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Mine has changed for now to-

Doncic
Ayton
Porter-if medical clears him

JJJ
Bagley

Bamba

Knox
Young
Mikal
Sexton

Carter
Miles
Bryan_Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2018, 10:13 PM   #605
Magnum_3_Ball
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 591
Magnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura about
Default

Flipped over to ESPN during halftime of Mavs/Kings to see Lonnie Walker. I liked what I saw from Virgina's freshman De'Andre Hunter. 6-7 wing with handles, nice form on the J & an athletic body. Haven't heard anything about him in the 2018 draft class, so he might be more of a 2019 prospect. Still one to keep an eye on.
Magnum_3_Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2018, 10:19 PM   #606
Underdog
Moderator
 
Underdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
Underdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball View Post
Flipped over to ESPN during halftime of Mavs/Kings to see Lonnie Walker. I liked what I saw from Virgina's freshman De'Andre Hunter. 6-7 wing with handles, nice form on the J & an athletic body. Haven't heard anything about him in the 2018 draft class, so he might be more of a 2019 prospect. Still one to keep an eye on.
Tankathon has him going late in the first to the Spurs, might still be there in the second round... Definitely a guy I've had my eye on.
__________________

These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Underdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2018, 10:23 PM   #607
Magnum_3_Ball
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 591
Magnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
Tankathon has him going late in the first to the Spurs, might still be there in the second round... Definitely a guy I've had my eye on.
Oh really? Yeah, I only saw him maybe 3-4 possessions, but stood out almost immediately.

Edit: Sorry, I was confused. I wasn't talking about Lonnie Walker. I need to see more of him. The portion of Virginia/Miami that I saw Walker was on the bench. The guy I'm talking about is the Cavaliers fresh wing De'Andre Hunter. He was very impressive and the announcers said he defends 4 positions.

Last edited by Magnum_3_Ball; 02-13-2018 at 10:27 PM.
Magnum_3_Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2018, 10:30 PM   #608
Underdog
Moderator
 
Underdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
Underdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball View Post
Oh really? Yeah, I only saw him maybe 3-4 possessions, but stood out almost immediately.

Edit: Sorry, I was confused. I wasn't talking about Lonnie Walker. I need to see more of him. The portion of Virginia/Miami that I saw Walker was on the bench. The guy I'm talking about is the Cavaliers fresh wing De'Andre Hunter. He was very impressive and the announcers said he defends 4 positions.
Reading on my phone, somehow missed De'Andre Hunter's name in your post. I'll have to check him out.
__________________

These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Underdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2018, 10:53 PM   #609
EricaLubarsky
Inactive.
 
EricaLubarsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,986
EricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Lottery watch - Strength of remaining schedule

8) Bulls +3.0 (4th hardest schedule)
7) Grizzlies +1.5 (23rd hardest schedule)
4/5/6) Nets +1.0 (13th hardest schedule)
4/5/6) Magic +1.0 (23rd hardest schedule)
4/5/6) Kings +1.0 (11th hardest schedule)
1/2/3) Mavs === (24th hardest schedule)
1/2/3) Suns === (3rd hardest schedule)
1/2/3) Hawks === (18th hardest schedule)

24 games left

1-3 all tied. 1-6 all within a single game. 1-7 within 1.5 games.
EricaLubarsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2018, 11:05 PM   #610
Magnum_3_Ball
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 591
Magnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura about
Default

Jaren Jackson Jr tonight: 27 pts 10/14 FGs 5/8 treys 2/2 FTs 6 rebs 3 asst 0 stl 3 blks 0 TOs and he only played 22 min b/c the Spartans won by 30.

27 pts w/ 5 treys & 3 blks. The kid is the only player in the draft with his specific skill set.
Magnum_3_Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 12:25 AM   #611
Underdog
Moderator
 
Underdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
Underdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball View Post
Jaren Jackson Jr tonight: 27 pts 10/14 FGs 5/8 treys 2/2 FTs 6 rebs 3 asst 0 stl 3 blks 0 TOs and he only played 22 min b/c the Spartans won by 30.

27 pts w/ 5 treys & 3 blks. The kid is the only player in the draft with his specific skill set.
Loving this kid more & more, this is the reason I have him in my top-5.
__________________

These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Underdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 12:39 AM   #612
Underdog
Moderator
 
Underdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
Underdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond repute
Default

__________________

These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Underdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 09:43 AM   #613
MavzMan
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,200
MavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant futureMavzMan has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball View Post
I think people make too much of the we already have X, so we can't have Y notion. If Portland thought that way, they never would of drafted CJ McCollum after they already had Damian Lillard. There's proof two 6-3 guards can work together.

It's not ideal, but it can work, and taking a player who works out is always better than taking a player who doesn't even if there's some redundancy.
I would argue that CJ+DL and DSJ+TY is more like X+X rather than X+Y. And the CJ+DL is not entirely working out either as POR is hanging onto the 6th seed, is definitely in the 3rd tier of WCF playoff teams and there was even talk about them trading off CJ to find a more complimentary piece. The biggest argument against drafting TY and going with DSJ+TY long term is just that small ball is exciting and will win you regular season games, but when defenses crank up in the playoffs and referees choke their whistle, the little guys get more abused. However, I'm playing devil's advocate here and I'm not really a big fan of Bamba either.
MavzMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 10:09 AM   #614
Magnum_3_Ball
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 591
Magnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MavzMan View Post
I would argue that CJ+DL and DSJ+TY is more like X+X rather than X+Y. And the CJ+DL is not entirely working out either as POR is hanging onto the 6th seed, is definitely in the 3rd tier of WCF playoff teams and there was even talk about them trading off CJ to find a more complimentary piece. The biggest argument against drafting TY and going with DSJ+TY long term is just that small ball is exciting and will win you regular season games, but when defenses crank up in the playoffs and referees choke their whistle, the little guys get more abused. However, I'm playing devil's advocate here and I'm not really a big fan of Bamba either.
Don't get me wrong. I agree with you that pairing DSJ & Trae Young is not ideal or even really a good idea. However, I'm coming at it from the perspective of, "What's worse?"

If Bamba or some other player who "fits" is a bust, then what's the upside of drafting them because they fit better with DSJ? At that point wouldn't it be better to have an actual asset, then a guy who missed?

That's how I'm looking at it. Like let's say worse case scenario Bamba is a glorified Hasheem Thabeet. Wouldn't it be better to literally draft DSJ's clone again over Thabeet? Yes, there's redundancy, but you have an asset you can use to acquire a better fitting part.

Imo, Trae Young will have more value 3 years from now than Mo Bamba will. So, if I'm the Mavs, I take the most valuable player on the board when I pick. I mean, because I see a roster with lots of open spaces. We're not 1 or 2 or 3 players away, so I don't think we need to be looking at "best fit" with a potential top 3 or even top 7 draft pick. I want to look at best player available only & make it work from there whether that's a trade or adding different pieces, etc.

Not to mention, if POR had different pieces around McCollum & Lillard, then it might work better. Say they had Robert Covington, then they could hide McCollum better on defense, or if they had a shot blocking center then, it could work better too. Not to mention, McCollum & Lillard create a lot of mismatches for opposing defenses too. That's part of what makes it work for them.
Magnum_3_Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 10:53 AM   #615
Magnum_3_Ball
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 591
Magnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura about
Default

Found some more notes on De'Andre Hunter, the 6-7 wing who stood out in last night's UVA/MIA game.

Hunter was ESPN's 72nd rated player in the 2016 high school class, which sounds low, but Bruno Fernando (Maryland) was 71st & he's projected to either be a late 1st/early 2nd this year or a top 10 pick in next year's NBA draft.

Hunter red-shirted last year, so he's a red-shirt freshman. Looking at a few more highlights of him, the kid can shoot & has a very nice mid range game. He has a short of "old man" feel to his game. He definitely has put time in the weight room because he doesn't even resemble the same scrawny kid you see in AAU highlights.

Also he's from Philly & was working out last summer with another Philly native Rasheed Wallace. I feel like he's a guy who won't (and probably shouldn't) declare for this year's draft, but I could see him being a Mikal Bridges type. Mikal was the 82nd rated player by ESPN in the 2014 high school class, red-shirted his first year at Villanova, and improved his game incrementally each year. Hunter fits that same profile.
Magnum_3_Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 10:54 AM   #616
EricaLubarsky
Inactive.
 
EricaLubarsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,986
EricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond repute
Default

As much as I want to pair DSJ with someone magnificent, it does make me wonder if we just go with BPA

Imagine if the Clippers were willing to pick up a PF and drafted LaFrentz, Dirk, or Jamison instead of going for the center and nabbing Olowakandi? Sure, it's not just a matter of BPA-- hype played a role, but man. There are a lot of teams that drafted by position rather than BPA and missed some truly generational talent.

Not really a comment on Trae. I like the kid a lot and you have to accept that at least on paper the dude is a Steph Curry-type. Not sure how much will transition to the next level, but I like his jumper and his vision.

Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 02-14-2018 at 11:00 AM.
EricaLubarsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 11:44 AM   #617
Magnum_3_Ball
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 591
Magnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura about
Default

I just looked through about a dozen or so mock drafts that have been updated in the last week. It's pretty clear Chandler Hutchinson will not be there in the second round. Virtually everyone but nbadraft & tankathon have him in the mid-teens of the 1st round. Some have him in the late lottery.

Unfortunately, most have Keita Bates-Diop in the 1st round too. A few have him in that mid teens area with Hutchinson.

On the brightside, looks like everyone is sleeping on Robert Franks.
Magnum_3_Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 12:15 PM   #618
Bryan_Wilson
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,694
Bryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky View Post
As much as I want to pair DSJ with someone magnificent, it does make me wonder if we just go with BPA

Imagine if the Clippers were willing to pick up a PF and drafted LaFrentz, Dirk, or Jamison instead of going for the center and nabbing Olowakandi? Sure, it's not just a matter of BPA-- hype played a role, but man. There are a lot of teams that drafted by position rather than BPA and missed some truly generational talent.

Not really a comment on Trae. I like the kid a lot and you have to accept that at least on paper the dude is a Steph Curry-type. Not sure how much will transition to the next level, but I like his jumper and his vision.
Yeah I know you said it's not a comment on Trae but while still on Trae he does worry me more than say sexton. I do fear he is a chucker putting up numbers rather than actually being a great player. He's in a super bad slump right now also and Oklahoma is suffering all the more for his chucking right now. Not saying he's not a top 10 player in this draft but not long ago I thought he could go top 5. No way I'd take him over others right if we have someone rated similarly. For instance if you think Mikal is 9th best and Trae is 7th best I'd prolly go with Mikal even though he's 2 years older.
Bryan_Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 12:28 PM   #619
Magnum_3_Ball
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 591
Magnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson View Post
Yeah I know you said it's not a comment on Trae but while still on Trae he does worry me more than say sexton. I do fear he is a chucker putting up numbers rather than actually being a great player. He's in a super bad slump right now also and Oklahoma is suffering all the more for his chucking right now. Not saying he's not a top 10 player in this draft but not long ago I thought he could go top 5. No way I'd take him over others right if we have someone rated similarly. For instance if you think Mikal is 9th best and Trae is 7th best I'd prolly go with Mikal even though he's 2 years older.
I don't understand the fear, I guess. Especially itemized to one stretch of a shooting slump. Shooters go through slumps. Like, would you move him down or up your draftboard based on the length of a shooting slump he had as a high school senior? Do you even care if he had a shooting slump as a high school senior?

I know those are kinda silly questions, but I don't know his high school #s in terms of a slump or not. I assume he had some slumps & moved past them. Just like I assume he'll move past this slump too. Seems like an overreaction.

I do understand the fear because Trae Young might have one of the lowest floors of any players in this draft & if you're risk adverse, then you tend to want to stay away.

I like what Seth Greenberg said about Trae Young the best. "He's not Steph Curry, but he is Steph Curry-esque."
Magnum_3_Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 12:31 PM   #620
Magnum_3_Ball
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 591
Magnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura about
Default

Boise State is going to be on ESPNU tonight vs #24 Nevada. Good opportunity to see what kind of defender Chandler Hutchinson is.
Magnum_3_Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 12:50 PM   #621
Bryan_Wilson
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,694
Bryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball View Post
I don't understand the fear, I guess. Especially itemized to one stretch of a shooting slump. Shooters go through slumps. Like, would you move him down or up your draftboard based on the length of a shooting slump he had as a high school senior? Do you even care if he had a shooting slump as a high school senior?

I know those are kinda silly questions, but I don't know his high school #s in terms of a slump or not. I assume he had some slumps & moved past them. Just like I assume he'll move past this slump too. Seems like an overreaction.

I do understand the fear because Trae Young might have one of the lowest floors of any players in this draft & if you're risk adverse, then you tend to want to stay away.

I like what Seth Greenberg said about Trae Young the best. "He's not Steph Curry, but he is Steph Curry-esque."
I should clarify it's not just because of the shooting slump. It's what prompted me to look a little more into him and I didn't necessarily like what I saw. He has great numbers at face value but he's also shooting 20fg's a game. Mikal, in my example, is ultra efficient with over 61%TS. Trae could be trying to do too much or could be feeling pressure from all the hype who knows. I don't watch near enough to make a real informed opinion. But according to recent articles he didn't go to Texas Tech, because he said "they need more talent". So he chose to go to Oklahoma yet Tech is playing much better than Oklahoma while presumably less talented. I'd have to look into their teams but he's just starting to show some flags I'm not thrilled with, and I don't think he would fit well with DSJ either. I wish he would go off just so he could get picked before us in the event we don't finish with a top 3-4 pick. But for now I have him in the same group as Mikal and Sexton and I'd prolly take him last of the group personally.

Last edited by Bryan_Wilson; 02-14-2018 at 12:51 PM.
Bryan_Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 12:58 PM   #622
Bryan_Wilson
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,694
Bryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Trae is still really efficient, not saying he's not. But if you take him as bpa he really better be bpa since we would have 2 guys who are best with the ball in their hands and are pretty small to be playing off ball. And neither will be making an all defense team as well.
Bryan_Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 01:37 PM   #623
Underdog
Moderator
 
Underdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
Underdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Where does Trae even rank as the best player available? I mean, he can score, but so can a lot of guys... I'm certainly not taking him over Ayton or Doncic, can't really see him being a significantly better scorer than Bagley or a healthy Porter. When you consider overall impact to the game, is he going to get you more wins than Jaren Jackson Jr? To me it doesn't seem like Young becomes a no-brainer BPA until you get to Bamba, and at that point he'll probably already be off the board. It's a problem that solves itself.
__________________

These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.

Last edited by Underdog; 02-14-2018 at 01:38 PM.
Underdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 01:45 PM   #624
saclare
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,971
saclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant future
Default

With Trae Young, the challenge will be dissecting whether he is putting up insane numbers on a bad team, or if that bad team is also the reason he may go through these slumps.

Any coach worth his salt is going to throw everything at him. Two defenders, bigger/longer defenders, traps, etc. Make the other players on that roster beat you.

It's the Malik Monk issue that I think trapped him in Norman. Remember Monk was heavily pressed, and subsequently wrongly scrutinized for choosing Kentucky. It simply was his best option to lock in his draft status. Young had legacy at Texas Tech, and almost went there. I think he'd fit outstandingly there and they'd be real threats to win it all, if they aren't already.

I just see a real issue with Trae Young in the NBA going up against bigger, quicker guards than he sees in college. Of course that a generalization when looking at draft prospects as a whole, but there's no way in hell his is a legit 6'2...

To me, BPA really doesn't apply to the NBA draft process. Doubly so if you are in the Mavs position, and have a cornerstone at PG that needs the ball in his hands, as well as improvement to his defensive game. DSJ + TY backcourt would be incredible offensively and most likely borderline unplayable on defense.

The comparisons to Lillard and McCollum are probably spot on offensively. Defensively, those two are both bigger guards than Smith Jr. and Young. Again, I do not believe Trae Young is 6'2.

It's tough. I do think he has traits of Steph. I think Steph was more advanced defensively at the same age, but these are prospects that can always grow parts of their game. some of the same weaknesses applied to Steph, but they always came with the risk.

The challenge for the Mavs front office will be one of fit, and one of risk. What is the long term fit considering DSJ is a cornerstone? And what is the risk when compared to similarly rated prospects? Say the risk is similar to a Mo Bamba or Jaren Jackson Jr. or other...tough call that we hopefully won't have to make.
saclare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 01:45 PM   #625
Magnum_3_Ball
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 591
Magnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson View Post
I should clarify it's not just because of the shooting slump. It's what prompted me to look a little more into him and I didn't necessarily like what I saw. He has great numbers at face value but he's also shooting 20fg's a game. Mikal, in my example, is ultra efficient with over 61%TS. Trae could be trying to do too much or could be feeling pressure from all the hype who knows. I don't watch near enough to make a real informed opinion. But according to recent articles he didn't go to Texas Tech, because he said "they need more talent". So he chose to go to Oklahoma yet Tech is playing much better than Oklahoma while presumably less talented. I'd have to look into their teams but he's just starting to show some flags I'm not thrilled with, and I don't think he would fit well with DSJ either. I wish he would go off just so he could get picked before us in the event we don't finish with a top 3-4 pick. But for now I have him in the same group as Mikal and Sexton and I'd prolly take him last of the group personally.
To my understanding he chose Oklahoma because he grew up 5 minutes from the University & he practiced on that court all the time. His current roster isn't very talented at all. No other NBA prospects & the only other ESPN100 players on his team are Soph Kameron McGusty (46) and Soph/red-shirt freshman Kristian Doolittle (69)... Doolittle barely sees the floor & missed half the season.

I think what Young was saying is for him to go to Texas Tech, instead of Oklahoma that he considers home, they'd have to be considerably more talented in order to persuade him & they were not in his estimation.


Edit: Also I think the pressure he feels isn't from the hype. It's from not having any teammates who can take any pressure off of him. If they take Young out of the game, they get behind. That's why he plays 35 mins per game, which is also why his FGA are so high. And, he's not a secret anymore. He's the entire focus of the opposition's defense. They sell out to stop him & he really doesn't have any help. It's an adjustment for him.

Last edited by Magnum_3_Ball; 02-14-2018 at 01:51 PM.
Magnum_3_Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 01:48 PM   #626
saclare
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,971
saclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog View Post
Where does Trae even rank as the best player available? I mean, he can score, but so can a lot of guys... I'm certainly not taking him over Ayton or Doncic, can't really see him being a significantly better scorer than Bagley or a healthy Porter. When you consider overall impact to the game, is he going to get you more wins than Jaren Jackson Jr? To me it doesn't seem like Young becomes a no-brainer BPA until you get to Bamba, and at that point he'll probably already be off the board. It's a problem that solves itself.
Bingo. I touched on it, but BPA is so much harder to apply to a rebuilding NBA team that already has some young pieces in place. It would be incredibly tough for me to take Trae Young over those same guys. I also said it probably begins with Bamba.

I did forget to mention that in addition to hopefully the Mavs not having the issue (re. we are #1 and can simply take Ayton or our pick - I'd be wholly pissed off if we took Young #1 lol), that someone else may value him much higher due to their need for such a guard.
saclare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 01:57 PM   #627
Magnum_3_Ball
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 591
Magnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura about
Default

Interesting question: Who's the one player you hope the Mavs don't draft?

For me it's Michael Porter Jr. I'd take anyone over him. Porter Jr will be out of the league in 5 years with back injuries, imo. I can't see Porter Jr ever sniffing All Star level with a discectomy. I mean, I guess it's possible, but I just see Sam Bowie & Greg Oden 2.0 with this kid.
Magnum_3_Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 02:01 PM   #628
Bryan_Wilson
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,694
Bryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball View Post
To my understanding he chose Oklahoma because he grew up 5 minutes from the University & he practiced on that court all the time. His current roster isn't very talented at all. No other NBA prospects & the only other ESPN100 players on his team are Soph Kameron McGusty (46) and Soph/red-shirt freshman Kristian Doolittle (69)... Doolittle barely sees the floor & missed half the season.

I think what Young was saying is for him to go to Texas Tech, instead of Oklahoma that he considers home, they'd have to be considerably more talented in order to persuade him & they were not in his estimation.


Edit: Also I think the pressure he feels isn't from the hype. It's from not having any teammates who can take any pressure off of him. If they take Young out of the game, they get behind. That's why he plays 35 mins per game, which is also why his FGA are so high. And, he's not a secret anymore. He's the entire focus of the opposition's defense. They sell out to stop him & he really doesn't have any help. It's an adjustment for him.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-bas...er-red-raiders

Quote:
“I just think they need more talent,” Trae says. “Sorry, I’m just being honest. I just want to win.”
Quote:
Trae Young’s father was a star at Texas Tech
Quote:
Texas Tech fans booed Trae Young every time he had the ball. It’s not just because Young is the biggest star in college basketball. He also has deep connections to Texas Tech as a program and nearly decided to play for the Red Raiders.
Bryan_Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 02:05 PM   #629
Bryan_Wilson
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,694
Bryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond reputeBryan_Wilson has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball View Post
Interesting question: Who's the one player you hope the Mavs don't draft?

For me it's Michael Porter Jr. I'd take anyone over him. Porter Jr will be out of the league in 5 years with back injuries, imo. I can't see Porter Jr ever sniffing All Star level with a discectomy. I mean, I guess it's possible, but I just see Sam Bowie & Greg Oden 2.0 with this kid.
It's not one player for me right now. It's drafting outside the top 5 and missing out on Ayton, Doncic, Porter, Bagley, and JJJ. To me there is a drop off after them. I could handle Bamba, depending on how he looks to close the year and combine. But anything outside of them for me right now is an absolute loss of a tank season.
Bryan_Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 02:07 PM   #630
Magnum_3_Ball
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 591
Magnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura about
Default

Didn't know the Texas Tech connection to Trae Young.
Magnum_3_Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 02:13 PM   #631
Magnum_3_Ball
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 591
Magnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson View Post
It's not one player for me right now. It's drafting outside the top 5 and missing out on Ayton, Doncic, Porter, Bagley, and JJJ. To me there is a drop off after them. I could handle Bamba, depending on how he looks to close the year and combine. But anything outside of them for me right now is an absolute loss of a tank season.
Bagley scares me too! His youth & where everyone is projecting him i.e. his upside leaves a high ceiling for now... But I see a guy who can't defend, can't shoot at the NBA level, and basically is the college version of Greg Monroe, compiling rebounds & scoring near the basket vs 6-6 guys that don't come close to representing NBA competition. Not to mention having the advantage of doing so in virtually every game while playing for the more talented/better team, which definitely won't be the case his first few seasons in the league.
Magnum_3_Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 03:54 PM   #632
BPo001
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,791
BPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I read Trae Young was wearing a Tech hat when he made the comments about them not being talented enough. He took off the Tech hat and put on an OU hat.
BPo001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 04:15 PM   #633
mac222b
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
mac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond reputemac222b has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Bagley is the guy I just cant get a feel for and would be least excited about. I know he puts up huge numbers but his game is just so ill- defined to me. Porter scares me. I would be more excited for Ayton, Donic, Jackson or Bamba then Young.
mac222b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 04:39 PM   #634
Underdog
Moderator
 
Underdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
Underdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond reputeUnderdog has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac222b View Post
Bagley is the guy I just cant get a feel for and would be least excited about. I know he puts up huge numbers but his game is just so ill- defined to me. Porter scares me. I would be more excited for Ayton, Donic, Jackson or Bamba then Young.
I'm right there with you on Bagley -- the numbers look good (aside from FTs), but when I watch him I don't really see anything special... Porter, on the other hand, is not a guy you can really project until he gets healthy, but I fully trust the Mavs medical/training staff to make the right call on him.
__________________

These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Underdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 04:58 PM   #635
DevinHarriswillstart
Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,225
DevinHarriswillstart has a reputation beyond reputeDevinHarriswillstart has a reputation beyond reputeDevinHarriswillstart has a reputation beyond reputeDevinHarriswillstart has a reputation beyond reputeDevinHarriswillstart has a reputation beyond reputeDevinHarriswillstart has a reputation beyond reputeDevinHarriswillstart has a reputation beyond reputeDevinHarriswillstart has a reputation beyond reputeDevinHarriswillstart has a reputation beyond reputeDevinHarriswillstart has a reputation beyond reputeDevinHarriswillstart has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Yeah, I'd honestly choose Jaren Jackson and maybe even Bamba over Bagley, but it's not like he is leftover prospect. If the Mavs picked him, then I'd be fine with it.

I'm not as crazy about Doncic as some because of his lack of athleticism/quickness. I think his size can make up for that and his insane talent. But if he gets frustrated in one on one situations, then it could spell a bit of trouble. I mean, he isn't just kinda slow...he looks like he runs with anvils.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy

DevinHarriswillstart is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 05:06 PM   #636
tap2390
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Enemy territory (SA)
Posts: 3,301
tap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond reputetap2390 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Depending on how you view Porter Jr., this draft is basically 6 or 7 blue chip guys deep:

Ayton
Doncic
Bamba
Bagley
Porter
Young
Jackson

If you get one of those guys I think you leave pretty happy.
__________________

Last edited by tap2390; 02-14-2018 at 05:07 PM.
tap2390 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 05:10 PM   #637
saclare
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,971
saclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant futuresaclare has a brilliant future
Default

I think Luka Doncic is what Kyle Collinsworth dreams about being as a player lol
saclare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 05:43 PM   #638
EricaLubarsky
Inactive.
 
EricaLubarsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,986
EricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond reputeEricaLubarsky has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I think Bagley will be solid, but I think he'll end up being more of a Rasheed than a KG or Dirk.
EricaLubarsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 05:54 PM   #639
Magnum_3_Ball
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 591
Magnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura aboutMagnum_3_Ball has a spectacular aura about
Default

I haven't heard a single positive word said about Bagley's defense since I started paying attention to this draft like 2 months ago, and I read at least one article or watch one video or listen to one podcast like every day. I mean, that alone scares me about Bagley. Literally, no one thinks he can defend.

Greg Monroe is a super fair comp for him.
Magnum_3_Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 06:28 PM   #640
BPo001
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,791
BPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond reputeBPo001 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball View Post
I haven't heard a single positive word said about Bagley's defense since I started paying attention to this draft like 2 months ago, and I read at least one article or watch one video or listen to one podcast like every day. I mean, that alone scares me about Bagley. Literally, no one thinks he can defend.

Greg Monroe is a super fair comp for him.
Care to elaborate? Bagley has the ability to spread the floor and is really athletic for his size. I admit I haven't watched Monroe a lot, but I was under the impression he doesn't stray far from the basket. Both are good rebounders, but Bagley also seems to possess enough skill to take a defensive rebound coast to coast which is something I imagine Monroe doesn't do much of.
BPo001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.