02-08-2023, 10:28 AM
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#1
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Diamond Member
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The Kyrie Thread
Can't believe we don't have one yet. Figured we need to separate this from the other trade deadline talk.
Short term I think Kyrie is going to play extremely well the rest of the season and in playoffs. He will also be on his best behavior with an eye towards securing a deal this offseason.
Long term I really don't see a better situation for Kyrie around the league. Mavs can give him more than any other team, have the best non-Giannis player in the league, and he gets to generally do his thing with less media than he's used to in Dallas. Time will tell, but why leave that to team up with a 39-year-old Lebron and alway hurt AD?
There's a good breakdown of the basketball aspect of this by Nekias Duncan here: https://www.basketballnews.com/stori...ncer-dinwiddie
and by Draymond Green (of all people) here: https://youtu.be/eZJCEVAAIBE?t=1318
For Kyrie's first press conference see here: https://youtu.be/GZYDTShR4CI
Wanna get hyped, see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyWnzWCMArg
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02-08-2023, 10:36 AM
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#2
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Diamond Member
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Some of Draymond's points:
-Kyrie is a fantastic spot up shooter... implies concern about sharing the ball with Luka is overblown
-says Luka & Kyrie combo is going to be "tough tough tough to guard"
-says Kyrie has matured as a defender and has risen to the challenge of defending good guards... says Kyrie is better than Dinwiddie on this end of the court
-says trade must have come together extremely quickly because SD and DFS played on Saturday and were traded by Sunday at noon... gives credit to Nico Harrison, says Nico didn't have much time to think and pulled the trigger
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02-08-2023, 10:50 AM
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#3
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Diamond Member
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I'm not worried about fit at all really. As far as the obvious risks off the court- Kyrie marches to the beat of his own drum. If he leaves to me it's not in 6 months its further down the line. I'd be more worried about year 3 then 6 months from now but who knows.
A lot of this negative talk with his fit and fit with luka to me is media driven.
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02-08-2023, 11:01 AM
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#4
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Inactive.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tap2390
Some of Draymond's points:
-Kyrie is a fantastic spot up shooter... implies concern about sharing the ball with Luka is overblown
-says Luka & Kyrie combo is going to be "tough tough tough to guard"
-says Kyrie has matured as a defender and has risen to the challenge of defending good guards... says Kyrie is better than Dinwiddie on this end of the court
-says trade must have come together extremely quickly because SD and DFS played on Saturday and were traded by Sunday at noon... gives credit to Nico Harrison, says Nico didn't have much time to think and pulled the trigger
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1) Kyrie is almost 40% on catch-and-shoot threes. He's going to get a lot of those in the minutes he plays with Luka
2) Luka shoots 40.0% on his own catch-and-shoot threes. He can finish plays that Kyrie creates.
3) Kyrie and Markieff both have legit defensive numbers
I am excited
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02-08-2023, 11:06 AM
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#5
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Inactive.
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Mavs players assisted threes
Wood 43.6%
Green 43.2%
Lawson 42%
Luka 40.0%
Morris 40.0%
Maxi 38%
Bullock 38%
Kyrie 38%
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02-08-2023, 11:08 AM
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#6
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Platinum Member
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Kyrie is going to ball out these next few months for the Mavs. The guy has an all-time media slant going against him right now and is on an expiring deal. He wants to secure the bag at a minimum so he's not likely to cause or create drama as it's in his best interest. Short term is all roses as far as I'm concerned.
The big questions are beyond this season. Mavs get a good look at fit on the court and have to then be ready to offer another max if they feel Irving can fit long term. The flexibility here is potential cap space and/or SNT possibilities should he have his heart set on somewhere else. Lots of different ways this team can go and it's really exciting compared to about a month ago.
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02-08-2023, 12:24 PM
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#7
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Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saclare
Kyrie is going to ball out these next few months for the Mavs. The guy has an all-time media slant going against him right now and is on an expiring deal. He wants to secure the bag at a minimum so he's not likely to cause or create drama as it's in his best interest. Short term is all roses as far as I'm concerned.
The big questions are beyond this season. Mavs get a good look at fit on the court and have to then be ready to offer another max if they feel Irving can fit long term. The flexibility here is potential cap space and/or SNT possibilities should he have his heart set on somewhere else. Lots of different ways this team can go and it's really exciting compared to about a month ago.
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I want to agree with this very take as what he does here in Dallas for the next handful of months will determine the rest of his career. If he does indeed stay focused and throw the kitchen sink at basketball, then it'll be fun to watch.
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02-08-2023, 12:37 PM
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#8
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Platinum Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by washedklean77
I want to agree with this very take as what he does here in Dallas for the next handful of months will determine the rest of his career. If he does indeed stay focused and throw the kitchen sink at basketball, then it'll be fun to watch.
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There's also the scenario where a max gets done here and, in a year or so, Kryie is again unhappy and requests a trade. He would likely net us more than we gave up as he wouldn't be expiring at that point. Would suck it didn't work out, but Kyrie on an extension is a big asset in either situation.
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02-08-2023, 12:53 PM
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#9
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saclare
There's also the scenario where a max gets done here and, in a year or so, Kryie is again unhappy and requests a trade. He would likely net us more than we gave up as he wouldn't be expiring at that point. Would suck it didn't work out, but Kyrie on an extension is a big asset in either situation.
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Moving 50 million in salary would be difficult...especially when Kyrie burning every team is now a thing.
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02-08-2023, 01:37 PM
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#10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saclare
There's also the scenario where a max gets done here and, in a year or so, Kryie is again unhappy and requests a trade. He would likely net us more than we gave up as he wouldn't be expiring at that point. Would suck it didn't work out, but Kyrie on an extension is a big asset in either situation.
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Thats a worse case scenario...hes only accepting a 4 year deal so when year 1 hes unhappy, no one wants that contract. That would be 4 organizations done with him. 50m is hard enough to move...no one wants Westbrook and hes actually playing as best as he can. Kyrie will have burned through 4 organizations by the time hes done with dallas.
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02-08-2023, 02:45 PM
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#11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
Thats a worse case scenario...hes only accepting a 4 year deal so when year 1 hes unhappy, no one wants that contract. That would be 4 organizations done with him. 50m is hard enough to move...no one wants Westbrook and hes actually playing as best as he can. Kyrie will have burned through 4 organizations by the time hes done with dallas.
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Yea but Kyrie and Rwb is light years of separation.
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02-08-2023, 03:35 PM
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#12
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Unless one is going to sacrifice, we're talking about 42 shots a game between Kyrie and Luka. I have no idea if it's going to work, but it'll be must watch TV to find out.
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02-08-2023, 03:51 PM
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#13
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Guru
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..
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
Last edited by DevinHarriswillstart; 02-08-2023 at 03:51 PM.
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02-08-2023, 05:01 PM
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#14
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Diamond Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJay
Unless one is going to sacrifice, we're talking about 42 shots a game between Kyrie and Luka. I have no idea if it's going to work, but it'll be must watch TV to find out.
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To be fair KD only shoots about one less shot per game than Luka.
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02-08-2023, 08:01 PM
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#15
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Inactive.
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NBA University
@NBA_University
*Most efficient players in Isolation (points per possession):
1. Kyrie: 1.19?5.2 iso poss/g
2. Dame: 1.13?5.0
3. Luka: 1.12?11.9
4. DeRozan: 1.12?5.4
5. Zion: 1.07?8.8
6. Brunson: 1.04?3.7
7. Şeng?n: 1.03?4.6
8. Harden: 1.03?6.6
9. Kawhi: 1.00?6.1
10. SGA: 1.00?7.2
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02-08-2023, 09:20 PM
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#16
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Diamond Member
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Lakers hypothetical Kyrie pursuit this off-season just got a lot harder with Beasley?s player option, D?Angelo?s cap hold, and Vanderbilt?s cap hit.
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02-08-2023, 09:26 PM
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#17
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Yeah but we have seen teams make room when they need to for star level and superstar level talent.
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02-08-2023, 10:14 PM
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#18
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Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tap2390
Lakers hypothetical Kyrie pursuit this off-season just got a lot harder with Beasley?s player option, D?Angelo?s cap hold, and Vanderbilt?s cap hit.
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Well D'Angelo they'd just let walk for Kyrie that's an easy decision, and he makes 30 mil. They could probably trade Vanderbilt easily.
Definitely agree about Beasley making it very difficult. I just saw an estimate of 134 million cap, this will already be over 100 with just these players
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02-08-2023, 10:17 PM
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#19
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Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson
Yeah but we have seen teams make room when they need to for star level and superstar level talent.
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From what I can tell and going by cap estimates, only way they could give Kyrie a max contract is if Beasley opts out.
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02-08-2023, 10:40 PM
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#20
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Diamond Member
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Would depend if a team with cap allowed lakers to send Beasley to them for air then, but that kinda stuff happens all the time from what I can remember in the past. Namely I recall nobody thinking Durant could go to Warriors till they traded away David Lee and stuff for cap space.
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02-08-2023, 10:52 PM
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#21
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Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson
Would depend if a team with cap allowed lakers to send Beasley to them for air then, but that kinda stuff happens all the time from what I can remember in the past. Namely I recall nobody thinking Durant could go to Warriors till they traded away David Lee and stuff for cap space.
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It might be moot, the NBA has to negotiate a new CBA between now and then where they can change the rules and change max contracts etc... anything can be changed. So all we can do is wait and see.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryanto...h=2f2c14cc77a9
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02-08-2023, 10:55 PM
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#22
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Member
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Remember last time they were negotiating a CBA, the season didn't start until Christmas. (right after we won the chip)
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02-09-2023, 01:20 AM
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#23
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Guru
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Last edited by SMC0007; 02-09-2023 at 01:20 AM.
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02-09-2023, 12:21 PM
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#24
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJay
Remember last time they were negotiating a CBA, the season didn't start until Christmas. (right after we won the chip)
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Soooo you're saying we are winning the championship this year. I like it.
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02-09-2023, 10:41 PM
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#25
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Diamond Member
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MY belief is Kyrie is just a rental and Cuban has no intentions of resigning him or Wood after the season
I believe Cuban prefers the cap space and really because of all the outside noise he had to make some trade in order to quite it down and appease Luka .
I think a lot of rumors about dallas being interested in certain players are leaked intentionally because it helps to show the team is trying to improve the overall roster.
I really don't think guys like Powell, Maxi or THJ will ever be traded their contracts will just expire.
I honestly think the days of Cuban going all in are over. I just don't think he's the same owner that has that spend big money attitude for a winner. I mean he's going to sale out games regardless because of Dirk and Luka effect.
But I won't believe Kyrie or Wood is resigning here and I don't think Cuban will be that upset anyway
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02-09-2023, 11:04 PM
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#26
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Well we know Cuban lost a boat load on crypto and is being sued over it too. No way that doesn't have a ripple effect.
But really don't care anymore. If he wants to be cheap and run Luka off, then so be it. FO never has a solid plan for the future anyway. Seriously the worst at FA and summer dealings. We lucked into Wood, but nobody else wanted him anyway. .
And the report that Sixers wanted a first for Thybulle means GMs just want to screw him over. Seems like we never get deals in good faith.
Just enjoy having two superstars for now. A summer of disappointment is just the going rate these days.
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02-10-2023, 09:31 AM
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#27
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I honestly don?t think the 76ers tried to screw over the Mavs by demanding a first round pick. I think they legitimately valued Jaden McDaniels more than anything other than a first round pick.
I hope you?re wrong about Cuban, and I pray he doesn?t low ball Kyrie if Kyrie balls out.
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02-10-2023, 11:43 AM
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#28
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One more note DHWS.... we were just the beneficiary of another team wanting to screw the Lakers over! Let's be real, it made no sense for the Nets to trade for Dinwiddie and DFS when they turned around and traded KD to the Suns. Not when the Lakers were offering unprotected '27 and '29 picks.
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02-10-2023, 05:50 PM
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#29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tap2390
One more note DHWS.... we were just the beneficiary of another team wanting to screw the Lakers over! Let's be real, it made no sense for the Nets to trade for Dinwiddie and DFS when they turned around and traded KD to the Suns. Not when the Lakers were offering unprotected '27 and '29 picks.
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Which is why I still don't trust Cuban
I think dude prefers to have a team full of Powell's surround Luka in order to save money and still win just enough to make the playoffs and sell out games
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02-11-2023, 02:35 AM
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#30
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From a purely x's and o's, on paper, basketball standpoint, this trade is an absolute homerun for the Mavericks. The Mavs desperately needed to put another star next to Luka, and Kyrie is still one of the most talented players in the league. The only problem is... it's Kyrie Irving. The guy is a supremely talented nutcase.
If this were just about any other team, I would say that nobody should touch Kyrie Irving with a ten foot pole. But I think the Mavs are/were actually in a much more desperate position than people realized. They needed to make a big splash or probably lose Luka, and I don't think there was another star player out there to be had. I'm not at all optimistic that the deal will work out long term, and yet I can't fault the Mavs for doing it.
Short term though? I love it. I agree with the OP that Kyrie will be on his best behavior for at least the next few months and will be eager to prove his critics wrong. And I do think Kryie and Luka will work very well on court together.
Slightly off topic though- what I am extremely excited and optimistic about is the development and emergence of both Josh Green and Jaden Hardy as legit assets. That needs a thread of its own.
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02-11-2023, 03:07 AM
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#31
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
Slightly off topic though- what I am extremely excited and optimistic about is the development and emergence of both Josh Green and Jaden Hardy as legit assets. That needs a thread of its own.
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I agree there needs to be a Green thread for sure- Hardy too... I'd love to see THJ mins come down for Hardy. If nothing else to let THJ know that going 5/15 and 5/16 every game shouldn't translate to 35+mins a game.
For Green... His growth this year is so exciting. I like DFS but honestly seeing what Green can do this year it really makes me wonder why the hell Green has been stuck behind DFS and Bullock.
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02-11-2023, 09:36 AM
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#32
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Guru
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I'm still trying to figure out of Kyrie is next level genius by letting Josh and Hardy handle the ball and initiate offense so much on purpose to get their confidence up or if he is mostly still trying to learn the system and fit in. Either way, it's exactly what we needed. Young motors, good handles, infused with Luka and Kyrie is 10x more fun to watch and the uptempo is boosting everyone. We don't look so Rigid on rotations and stagnant slow mediocre offensive sets. Counting on the kids is the biggest thing I wanted to see even if it meant not winning a bunch of games right away. It's a huge bonus that we have actually win games without Luka and looked better than we have all season...and 1 of those games we didn't have Kyrie.
I appreciate the fact that Kyrie isnt going for the ball every possession and is letting the offense breathe, we are moving the ball and he's letting others cook. He and Luka are so good 1v1 that they can also iso bail us out of tough possessions.
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Last edited by SMC0007; 02-11-2023 at 09:38 AM.
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02-13-2023, 05:47 PM
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#33
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Guru
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Quote:
Teeny-tiny sample size but something to consider:
Mavs passes per game all season before Feb. 8: 265.4, 27th in the NBA
Mavs passes per game since Feb. 8 (post-trade, Kyrie's debut): 332.3, 1st in the NBA
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https://twitter.com/bobbykaralla/sta...llas-mavericks
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02-13-2023, 06:19 PM
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#34
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
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Pretty, prettttty good
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03-06-2023, 02:42 PM
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#35
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03-10-2023, 11:21 AM
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#36
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Kyrie off the clock comments are heating up, not saying anything too wild though.
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03-10-2023, 12:05 PM
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#37
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He spoke nothing but facts, just people don't like to hear it sometimes. I'd personally love Kyrie to re-sign here as I think he can unlock the final element(s) in Luka on the court. And Luka is too silly and free that the mental side off the court shouldn't get to him, and I just don't think he cares about that stuff too deeply lol
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03-11-2023, 05:59 PM
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#38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
Kyrie off the clock comments are heating up, not saying anything too wild though.
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Got a link? What did I miss?
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06-28-2023, 05:32 PM
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#39
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06-29-2023, 09:20 AM
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#40
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Platinum Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFFL
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Good read. The perception of Kyrie has always been media driven. He's done enough to put himself in these situations, but it always seemed to be overblown by non-players and coaches. Maxi, THJ, Green and Hardy are some I remember gushing about Kyrie as a teammate and more importantly for those last two, as a mentor.
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