Damn Yankees - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Drbio · 10-01-2005, 11:15 PM

Love them or hate them you have to give the NY yanks some credit. They finished off the Red Sox to win the division today.

Man I hate those guys.

chumdawg · 10-02-2005, 02:53 AM

Interestingly enough, in the musical I watched tonight by the same name, Joe caught the final out in center field for the Washington Senators, taking the pennant away from those Damn Yankees on the last day of the season...

Five-ofan · 10-02-2005, 10:14 AM

I hate the red sox more than I hate the yankees. Red sox fans are actually worse than Yankee fans and I didnt think that was possible. Also the whole Ortiz for MVP thing is really annoying. Arod is the MVP. Its EXTREMELY clear cut. Yet Ortiz name keeps coming up as if they are equal. AROD has better offensive numbers while being a very very good defensive 3rd basemen. He is also a threat to steal and a good baserunner. Arod is right behind Pujols for the best player in the game.

#1MavsFan · 10-02-2005, 11:55 AM

Actually their offensive numbers are very comparable. Arod has 1 more hr but Ortiz has 17 more rbi's. Not to mention Ortiz has won 22 games this season for the Sox with a walkoff hit, while Arod has done that about 3 or 4 times. What it all comes down to is that Ortiz HAS been the difference in more games for his team than has Arod thus deserving the MVP more since he truly is more valuable to his team.

Murphy3 · 10-02-2005, 01:01 PM

Another interesting thing to look at is this...the only of the main situational BA's in which ARod outperforms is with no one on base.
Ortiz has a better BA when:
runners are on base
runners are in scoring position
runners are in scoring position with two outs
bases loaded

For ARod, he has been clutch this season. That has been a knock on him the past few years (although not always fairly)...that he hit poorly with men on base. But, his situational stats are still not comparable to Ortiz.

I don't remember him hittting poorly with men on base...seems to me that he struggled as a Ranger with RISP and 2 outs, but I'll have to look that up.

Five-ofan · 10-02-2005, 01:58 PM

For the mvp to be a DH he would have to be by far the best hitter in baseball. You said it yourself their numbers are very comparable. That means that ortiz isnt close. As for the arguments that ortiz has been the better hitter I can make at least as strong of an argument for Arod. BTW Arod has more hrs that tied or put his team ahead than Ortiz does. He has more GW RBIs as well. The consensus best measure of a hitter right now is OPS and Arod wins in that. Also in the close and late game situations which is the only possible argument for Ortiz, Arod has a higher OBP and BA. Basically Arod gets on more often but when Ortiz does get hits he hits them further in those situations.

In overall numbers Arod beats Ortiz in
BA, OBP, OPS, HR, Steals, Slugging, Runs,
In overall numbers Ortiz beats Arod
RBIs and BB.

That doesnt even include the fact that Arod is a near gold glove level 3rd baseman. Also other than just the steals he is more valuable on the bases because he doesnt clog the bases and he can go from first to third on a single. Small things like that all favor arod but they dont even have to be mentioned because One of the many things Arod does well is better than the ONLY thing Ortiz does well.

Murphy3 · 10-02-2005, 03:06 PM

I'm not saying that Ortiz is the MVP. I'm pointing out that he's significantly better when it matters most. I'd give it to ARod, but it wouldn't be an easy decision. I honestly believe that Ortiz' offensive numbers are more impressive than ARod's, but his defensive abilities more than make up for that. Yes, I know that ARod leads Ortiz in most offensive categories, but not in any of the clutch hitting categories....

But like I said, I'd still give the nod to ARod.

Five-ofan · 10-03-2005, 01:05 AM

Whether or not you believe that Ortiz's offensive numbers are better or not is irrelevant. They simply arent. He has a better batting average with the bases loaded? Damn that is an important stat. Where did you find that anyway. That is not even on espns splits page. The 3 other stats you mentioned and even the bases loaded stat all overlap. Ie if Ortiz is signifigantly better with Risp and 2 out it effects all the other numbers are improved as well and thus those numbers dont make alot of sense to be used in conjuction with each other. I agree that risp is important but Arod has had a better year at the plate. OPS is univerisally considered the best measure of a hitter and Arod beats him there. Arod beats him in 2 of the 3 triple crown categories so if you want to go by raw numbers arod wins. Arod beats him in just about all the sabermetric numbers so if you by them Arod wins. Again that is only including hitting which is the ONLY thing Ortiz does vs its one of many things Arod does WELL.

#1MavsFan · 10-03-2005, 02:52 PM

Lets break down "MVP". Most Valuable Player. Would the Yanks still be in the playoffs or at the very least in the wildcard race without Arod? Most people would say "of course". But would Boston have any chance at the playoffs without Big Papi? I doubt it, Ortiz won them 22 games with walk off hits, take out those 22 wins and they're basically just the Rangers. Ortiz is MORE valuable to his team than is AROD. Ortiz was the difference in more games for his team than was Arod.