Start Barea - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

spreedom · 02-10-2015, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Barea 6-10 last game.

I obviously want JJ to do well, but there is absolutely no reason he should be starting on a good team.

EricaLubarsky · 02-10-2015, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Neither should Rondo. Both have weaknesses. Rondo kills our offense. Barea is slightly weak on defense and streaky. We still need to fix our starting point guard situation. Rondo wasn't the answer. And now with these injuries, we got more problems. Might even miss the playoffs.

Except that subbing in JJB for Rondo doesn't solve the issue, which is what the thread is about. You wanna trade Rondo? I'm sure you'd have some support, although there'd have to be a bigger discussion as to what we could get for him.

You want to just start JJB as the better player and better fit as a starter? You'd have a really hard time arguing that.

rimrocker · 02-10-2015, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Neither should Rondo. Both have weaknesses. Rondo kills our offense. Barea is slightly weak on defense and streaky. We still need to fix our starting point guard situation. Rondo wasn't the answer. And now with these injuries, we got more problems. Might even miss the playoffs.

I'm not a big Rondo fan either but there isn't much out there available any better.
I think there are 4 primary dimensions to the game:
1. Offense
2. Defense
3. Assists
4. Rebounds

You have to admit Rondo is 3 dimensional (Defense, Assists, Rebounds) using that philosophy and you have to search hard to find another on our roster that is at least 3 dimensional.

bilease · 02-11-2015, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Neither should Rondo. Both have weaknesses. Rondo kills our offense. Barea is slightly weak on defense and streaky. We still need to fix our starting point guard situation. Rondo wasn't the answer. And now with these injuries, we got more problems. Might even miss the playoffs.

Rondo wasnt the answer? You know that after just 4 weeks of basketball while we had the toughest schedule of our season so far right in the middle of that adjustment period? I wasnt happy with every part of Rondos game, but at least give them time when everyone's healthy again. And as much as I like JJ, starting him when Rondo is healthy is simply stupid. It wont happen.

sefant77 · 02-11-2015, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Neither should Rondo. Both have weaknesses. Rondo kills our offense. Barea is slightly weak on defense and streaky.

Hello ignore list.

Pretty much every statistic shows that Rondo improves the defense more than he hurts the offense. And Barea hurts the defense more than he can make up with his (specially this season) inefficient offense.

Your "arguments" are idiotic. Good bye.

mavsfan1000 · 02-11-2015, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilease

Rondo wasnt the answer? You know that after just 4 weeks of basketball while we had the toughest schedule of our season so far right in the middle of that adjustment period? I wasnt happy with every part of Rondos game, but at least give them time when everyone's healthy again. And as much as I like JJ, starting him when Rondo is healthy is simply stupid. It wont happen.

Yes I do. We need a spot up shooter who doesn't take the ball away from Ellis and Parsons who are great playmakers. That's basically the opposite of what Rondo brings. Lol 30% free throws. Seriously, I haven't seen a guard in this league that shoots worse than Rondo. All our set plays are effected when one player is offensively deficient.

spreedom · 02-11-2015, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Yes I do. We need a spot up shooter who doesn't take the ball away from Ellis and Parsons who are great playmakers. That's basically the opposite of what Rondo brings. Lol 30% free throws. Seriously, I haven't seen a guard in this league that shoots worse than Rondo. All our set plays are effected when one player is offensively deficient.

Individual shooting performance aside, the numbers with Rondo don't lie. Top 7 offensively and defensively. That means *gasp!* it was a great trade.

mavsfan1000 · 02-11-2015, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Individual shooting performance aside, the numbers with Rondo don't lie. Top 7 offensively and defensively. That means *gasp!* it was a great trade.

We blew out a couple teams. But our record is a better indicator of how we are with Rondo. We were on pace to being close to a 60 win team before the trade. Now we're on pace to being a 50 win team. Losing our big man also hurts though. Just not a good trade.

spreedom · 02-11-2015, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

We blew out a couple teams. But our record is a better indicator of how we are with Rondo. We were on pace to being close to a 60 win team before the trade. Now we're on pace to being a 50 win team. Losing our big man also hurts though. Just not a good trade.

Yes, comparing win-loss record immediately after a trade (against a tougher strength of schedule) with the pre-trade record 25 games into a season is a good indicator of whether the trade was successful or not. Well done.

mavsfan1000 · 02-11-2015, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Yes, win-loss record immediately after a trade (against a tougher strength of schedule) is a good indicator of whether the trade was successful or not. Well done.

Excuses. We had the depth and a balanced offense to handle a tough schedule before the trade. Balanced meaning you couldn't cheat off any player. Our bench was great with Wright nailing almost all the interior passes and alley oops heading his way. He and Harris had great great chemistry. Harris has struggled since the trade. I guess it's not Rondo's fault they made the trade. But I wish we still had Wright.

dirt_dobber · 02-11-2015, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

... But I wish we still had Wright.

teams were starting to really figure out Wright - and as a result of scouting and
the defensive adjustments he was seeing his numbers and touches trending down.

Wright hasn't been killin' it in Phoenix with his 10 min and 4 points
in last nights loss to the Suckets.

mavsfan1000 · 02-11-2015, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

teams were starting to really figure out Wright - and as a result of scouting and
the defensive adjustments he was seeing his numbers and touches trending down.

Wright hasn't been killin' it in Phoenix with his 10 min and 4 points
in last nights loss to the Suckets.

What Wright does in Phoenix has no implications of what he meant to us. Yes he struggled a couple games before the trade. But everyone has slumps. But replacing him with CBA players is what really hurt us.

G-Man · 02-11-2015, 03:03 PM

Around and around and round we spin. With Mavfan1000, this argument never ends.

You have yet to address any of the key arguments against you.

1: Wright sucked against every Western conference playoff team. He may have gotten double digits once, so having him didn't help us win tough games, and we can win easy ones without him. Yet you keep posting like he would have made a difference. Why do you keep saying that in the face of the evidence that he did not?

2: Rondo makes our defense much better.

3: Rondo shuts down top guards like Westbrook and Harden. With Rondo on bench, Curry goes for 40. As all the teams we need to beat have great guards, having JJB or Nelson wave at them as they blow by, post up or shoot over them is not a way to win games. We tried it. That's why they made the trade.

Your point about being on pace to win 60 is totally bogus. There are 7 other playoff teams in the West. As we had lost to every one of them before the trade, so we were on pace to lose close to 28 game to them alone. That's 56 wins max and a certain 1st round exit. Plus we'd already lost a few more. So please quit repeating that claim as if it had merit.

So, if we had not made the trade, what would the plan be to defend guards?

Since we were a bottom 5 defense before the trade, what would the plan be with that roster to improve? Start JJB? Westbrook is on line one, saying "please do."

Or maybe your idea is to just outscore everybody. Are you familiar with the careers of Don Nelson and Mike Dantoni? You can find both in the "wow that was fun until the playoffs started" section. Also known as the losers bracket.

mavsfan1000 · 02-11-2015, 03:30 PM

So it's ok to win less. As long as our defense is better? I don't disagree with needing to improve our defense. But why couldn't we get a point guard that could shoot as well and doesn't work against our offense? Shooting is the most important thing in basketball. Teams that are easy to shut down don't go far in the playoffs either. The game plan in the playoffs is have Rondo's defender help out on Dirk, Ellis, or whoever is close by.

bilease · 02-11-2015, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

So it's ok to win less. As long as our defense is better? I don't disagree with needing to improve our defense. But why couldn't we get a point guard that could shoot as well and doesn't work against our offense? Shooting is the most important thing in basketball. Teams that are easy to shut down don't go far in the playoffs either. The game plan in the playoffs is have Rondo's defender help out on Dirk, Ellis, or whoever is close by.

Are you still not getting it? We wouldnt have won more with Nelson/Wright/Crowder anyway. We were not on pace for your miraculous 65+ wins season before the trade. Which point guard do you think the Mavs should have traded for? Who else was available? Wherever I look I cant see anybody around the league the mavs wouldve been able to acquire. They got the best available point guard out there, wether he can shoot or not. And so far, the trade is far away from being a failure. We will see in a couple of months. Fact is something had to be done and we werent going anywhere with the pre-trade team, now, its still difficult but not completely impossible to get past the 1st round.

mavsfan1000 · 02-11-2015, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilease

Are you still not getting it? We wouldnt have won more with Nelson/Wright/Crowder anyway. We were not on pace for your miraculous 65+ wins season before the trade. Which point guard do you think the Mavs should have traded for? Who else was available? Wherever I look I cant see anybody around the league the mavs wouldve been able to acquire. They got the best available point guard out there, wether he can shoot or not. And so far, the trade is far away from being a failure. We will see in a couple of months. Fact is something had to be done and we werent going anywhere with the pre-trade team, now, its still difficult but not completely impossible to get past the 1st round.

I disagree with you. But we're going in circles. So I'll end it there. The only thing I agree with is something needs to be done. And I still feel that way now. We're going nowhere with our current roster.

bunkmoreland · 02-11-2015, 03:59 PM

We were "going nowhere" before the Rondo trade. I praise Donnie and Cuban for taking a risk and making a move to attempt to address our weaknesses.
Has the trade worked? Anyone who has a definitive answer to that question is wrong. Too early to tell. It might. Injuries to Rondo and Tyson now complicate the situation. We need help down low.
But is it plausible that we sign Jermaine, maybe Amare, the team focuses on staying rested and healthy, gets into the playoffs playing strong but as a seven seed and defeats their first round opponent?
Absolutely plausible. Chances might even be better now than before the Rondo trade.

Kante · 02-11-2015, 04:45 PM

Can't we just lock the thread? It's like talking to a retarded dog...

G-Man · 02-11-2015, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kante

Can't we just lock the thread? It's like talking to a retarded dog...

That's not nice. But its so damned funny ...

sefant77 · 02-11-2015, 06:24 PM

Dogs are actually really really smart

mavsfan1000 · 02-11-2015, 06:32 PM

Never mind..

sefant77 · 02-11-2015, 08:34 PM

woof!

mavsfan1000 · 02-11-2015, 08:50 PM

Calling me a dog? Are you willing to sink that low to insult me? Let's see who can outdo you on how to insult someone without explicit lyrics.

dirkhorse · 02-11-2015, 10:22 PM

mavsfan1000 is nothing more than a troll.

mavsfan1000 · 02-11-2015, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirkhorse

mavsfan1000 is a troll.

Have someone call you a dog and then we can speak. BTW you win. I 'd rather be a dog then a troll.

mavsfan1000 · 02-11-2015, 10:57 PM

Barea 8-15. Exum 1-8. Woof!

twelli · 02-11-2015, 11:04 PM

I love Barea, not sure what went wrong for him with his last team. But he certainly brings it again for the Mavs. He's a warrior.

Thebo · 02-12-2015, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

I disagree with you. But we're going in circles. So I'll end it there. The only thing I agree with is something needs to be done. And I still feel that way now. We're going nowhere with our current roster.

So, you disagree that Mavs couldn't have done better than Rondo for Wright/Crowder/Nelson? You are arguing like Mavs had to choose between this imaginary(?) spot up shooter/defender and Rondo. Who else was there available then for the same package?

sefant77 · 02-12-2015, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Barea 8-15. Exum 1-8. Woof!

Nice try Lassie.

Previous 10 games: 0.394%. Woof

bunkmoreland · 02-12-2015, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twelli

I love Barea, not sure what went wrong for him with his last team. But he certainly brings it again for the Mavs. He's a warrior.

Not trying for sarcasm here, but what went wrong was that Minnesota did not have someone like Dirk spacing the floor or Tyson creating screens. These are opportunities that the Mavs were able to give Barea when he was here last, and often when he's here this time. And he is quite effective in taking advantage of those opportunies, just as Brandan Wright was.
But put them on another team, deny them those opportunities, and they start to look pretty mediocre.