P.J. Brown - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

akaarod03 · 02-20-2005, 03:54 PM

For whatever it's worth...this is from Chad Ford's ESPN NBA Insider column...

"They'd also be willing to dump P.J. Brown straight up for an expiring contract. By doing so, the Hornets could drastically cut payroll, go into the summer with a ton of cap room and begin rebuilding around young players such as Jamal Magloire and J.R. Smith"

Why not Alan Henderson straight up for P.J. Brown?

I know chemistry is a big issue. I'm tired of making trades without giving the current roster a chance to gel. But I think acquiring a better low post defender in Brown...makes this team even stronger. He's a better fit. Obviously, his numbers are inflated because he plays more minutes and he plays for a bad team...but 11 points, 9 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1 block, and 1 steal in 36 minutes per game...is pretty impressive. I love his FT shooting percentage...a blistering 85%. He could play the exact role that Henderson plays...backup PF/C. He's also 6'11. The only downside...he's older than Henderson...35 years old...Henderson is 32. And Brown has 2 years left on his contract after this year.

Do you pull the trigger?

dalmations202 · 02-20-2005, 05:00 PM

I think Dallas would have to do this trade, if offered. I don't think it is being offered though. This would be one of those too good to be true things.

Bayliss · 02-20-2005, 05:21 PM

Why mess with a team that has clear cut roles?

PJ Brown would not like to be the backup 4 or 5. And Dallas doesn't need to make Dirk the center so PJ can get more minutes.

dalmations202 · 02-20-2005, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Bayliss
Why mess with a team that has clear cut roles?

PJ Brown would not like to be the backup 4 or 5. And Dallas doesn't need to make Dirk the center so PJ can get more minutes.

I understand your point. But PJ is a better scoring option, and plays better D than Henderson. He is taller, and more active. He would increase the chances of Dallas winning it all.

You say that PJ would not like to be the backup 4 or 5. How do you know? He is 35 and you are offering him the chance at a ring if he plays this role. I'm think he would make the perfect 1st frontcourt player off the bench.

V2M · 02-21-2005, 12:44 AM

If the salaries match, we should do it. PJ would be a nice defensive, rebounding and a scoring threat behind Dirk & Damp.

Pirate · 02-21-2005, 09:52 AM

I agree with those who think PJ Brown would bring real chemistry issues over minutes, if he was swapped for Henderson. Henderson is getting about 15 minutes a game and Brown is getting about 40. Once Dirk gets his 40 and Damp gets the 35 he has shown he needs, and you give some to Bradley or Booth here and there, all you have left for Brown on the roster is the limited time Hendu has been getting. Thats a recipe for a very unhappy camper.

I say no. Chemistry aka players getting in roles that they can accept, is too valuable to mess with. This roster has found a very good balance with players who have accepted roles and bought into the minutes packages as they exist. Dont mess with it.

PepperTheMavsFan41 · 02-21-2005, 10:37 PM

Good Lord this is a no brainer. And I for one have no clue why it hasnt been made already.

So PJ Brown a guy getting up there. Whose been on winning teams in the past, and has already been "Paid" would rather start on the worst team in basketball, over being the first 4/5 off the bench on a perennial contender??

I dont buy that at all.

kg_veteran · 02-21-2005, 10:47 PM

IF this deal were on the table, Dallas would HAVE to do it immediately.

If Stackhouse hasn't caused chemistry problems, why should Brown? When has there ever been any indication that Brown thinks he has to play 36 mpg? Why couldn't Brown get 25-28 mpg on this team and be happy?

That said, this deal isn't going to be offered, IMO.

Pirate · 02-21-2005, 11:30 PM

KGV, I disagree with you totally. I dont believe there are 28 mpg available - all I believe they have to give him are the minutes Henderson gets. And I do believe that if Stackhouse (or any starter-caliber player) was only playing 15 per game, he too would cause chemistry problems.

Nash13 · 02-22-2005, 12:02 AM

Pirate, Brown would get 22-25mpg for our team. He'll take minutes from Booth/Bradley because he fits perfectly into Nellie's system. Nelson wants someone who's a natural 4 but can play the 5, and that's exactly who Brown is. Because most of the time when Hendu's in the game, Dirk's in the game. And this way Dirk could still play the 4.

And if you look at the contenders, they all have a great frontcourt F/C coming off the bench, ex. PHO: Hunter, SAS: Rose/Horry, SEA: Fortson, SAC: Songalia, HOU: Dike/Taylor, MEM: Swift, LAL: Grant, MINN: Madsen/Griffin.

Because if i had to pick out Dallas' biggest weakness, it's our frontcourt depth. I don't think Booth or Bradley get enough time to play their best, and putting Dirk at the 5 with Hendu at the 4 ain't gonna fly in the playoffs.

Pirate · 02-22-2005, 06:53 AM

"they all have a great frontcourt F/C coming off the bench, ex. PHO: Hunter, SAS: Rose/Horry, SEA: Fortson, SAC: Songalia, HOU: Dike/Taylor, MEM: Swift, LAL: Grant, MINN: Madsen/Griffin."

Interesting how you define "greatness"! For the most part, you have listed a collection of spares. Besides Grant and Swift, I dont see anyone on there who is necessarily better than Henderson/Bradley/Booth.

Nash13 · 02-22-2005, 10:09 AM

Well there not so much great as they are solid.

Horry and Songalia have given Dirk problems on defense, Stephen Hunter has been good for Pheonix this year, and i think most Mavs fans would rather have Eddie Griffin than Alan Henderson.

Pirate · 02-22-2005, 11:23 AM

What you call "solid" I would call "sparedom." Hunter was decent (not good, merely decent) early in the season but in time fell back to his normal "scrub to the max" level, and barely plays anymore. Horry and Songaila are so mediocre it is pointless to even examine. Griffin has SOME talent but Minny is underachieving in large part because they have NO big man who really helps Garnett. Griffin's stats look nice except if you do the per/48 calculation, Henderson's are essentially identical - and Hendu doesnt have the baggage. In my opinion, the concept that all these spares on other teams are suddenly solid, and somehow better than Henderson-and-crew, is "grass greener over the fence" syndrome, and nothing more. Henderson/Booth/Bradley are a far better combo than any of those alternate options.

V2M · 02-22-2005, 11:58 AM

Henderson is a smart player who plays well within his limitations. But one aspect of his game that I don't like is his FT shooting (58%). It could be crucial during playoffs where games are played lot closer.

PJ Brown shoots 85%, btw.

Nash13 · 02-22-2005, 05:10 PM

Pirate, with the exception of Malik Rose and Fortson, all the other players are taller and good defender. They're also faster and can score better around the basket.

Pirate · 02-22-2005, 06:50 PM

Nash, they are all SCRUBS. You first said everyone else had a "great" backup. I replied to the lunacy of THAT and you backed off, and changed to saying they were solid. I showed you how crap-tastic they were after that, and now you say "well they are tall and fast and can score and are good defenders." No they arent. If that was true, they all would be starting somewhere - instead, the guys you named are barely playing. Why? Cause they are SPARES.

Look, the bottom line is the backup big men on the competition all pretty much suck. The Mavs are getting good solid play from their backups. They are fine as is.

Nash13 · 02-22-2005, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Nash, they are all SCRUBS.

If they are all scrubs, then please name me one player who has not had a previous history of playing well against the Mavs?

Quote:

I replied to the lunacy of THAT and you backed off, and changed to saying they were solid.

I'll admit i overstated when i said they are great, but they are solid.

Quote:

I showed you how crap-tastic they were after that, and now you say "well they are tall and fast and can score and are good defenders." No they arent.

You haven't given me stats, you've given me opinion, and vague ones at that. And those other guys are taller and faster. And guys like Horry, Rose, Madsen, and Grant are known for being good defenders. And Swift, Griffin and Hunter are known for their shotblocking. I didn't make this stuff up.

Quote:

No they arent. If that was true, they all would be starting somewhere - instead, the guys you named are barely playing. Why? Cause they are SPARES.

Actually, Fortson, Horry, Grant, Taylor, Swift have all started either this year or in the RECENT history. And the last time i checked, this thread is about trading for a SPARE.

Quote:

Look, the bottom line is the backup big men on the competition all pretty much suck. The Mavs are getting good solid play from their backups. They are fine as is.

Now i'm a fan of Hendu and have appreciated what he's done this season, but at the same time i'm not naive to think he's the best backup in this league.

Pirate · 02-23-2005, 07:48 AM

Again, you are talking about SPARES. SCRUBS. None of these guys are borderline starters, or anything that should make the Mavs worry enough to run out and look for upgrades, with the possible exception of Swift. If that is the extent of the poblem, I will retain team chemistry and leave everything as is.

Some of them were starters years ago. SO WHAT? You say that some of them are tall - but then again, some are short. You say some are fast - but then again, some are slow. You say some of them had a good game or two in the past - again, SO WHAT? Everyone has a decent game here or there. You say ALL those players you named are CURRENTLY Mavs-killers? Nonsense - total unadulterated horse hockey.

And the essence of my point is in the final thing you say: "i'm a fan of Hendu and have appreciated what he's done this season, but at the same time i'm not naive to think he's the best backup in this league." SO WHAT? At best, only one of the guys you named could be construed as the "best backup in this league" - and your thesis apparently was that Henderson is the WORST (which again conflicts with "i'm a fan of Hendu and have appreciated what he's done this season.") Henderson is the WORST? That's just an absurd opinion.

You are afflicted with "grass is greener over the fence" eyesight. All those players (again with the possible exception of Swift) are mediocre, and if they (rather than Hendu) were on the Mavs where you watched them every game rather than seeing them for a few minutes once a month or less, you would realize the Mavs have something that isnt broke, so it doesnt need fixing. Henderson is making a significant contribution this year, and people in the Mavs organization are very aware of that fact, whether you can see it or not.

Nash13 · 02-23-2005, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Again, you are talking about SPARES. SCRUBS. None of these guys are borderline starters, or anything that should make the Mavs worry enough to run out and look for upgrades, with the possible exception of Swift. If that is the extent of the poblem, I will retain team chemistry and leave everything as is.

OK, I want you to look at my first post directed towards you. In that last paragraph i said that i don't think the combo of Dirk and Hendu will work in the playoffs and that Nelson doesn't play Booth and Bradley enough to play their best. And i also said that those other guys are Forwards <u>AND</u> can play some Center. Henderson is a good option at the forward, but he cannot, and i repeat, cannot play the 5. And i named players who have played some minutes well at the 5 for their team.

PJ Brown, the guy who this thread is about, can play minutes at the 5. In order to have more consistency from our frontcourt, Brown is a better option because he brings more to the table.

Quote:

And the essence of my point is in the final thing you say: "i'm a fan of Hendu and have appreciated what he's done this season, but at the same time i'm not naive to think he's the best backup in this league." SO WHAT? At best, only one of the guys you named could be construed as the "best backup in this league" - and your thesis apparently was that Henderson is the WORST (which again conflicts with "i'm a fan of Hendu and have appreciated what he's done this season.") Henderson is the WORST? That's just an absurd opinion.

I want you to go back and find where i said Henderson is the WORST. But clearly other people on this board don't think he's the best if they want to trade him for Brown.

Quote:

Some of them were starters years ago. SO WHAT? You say that some of them are tall - but then again, some are short. You say some are fast - but then again, some are slow. You say some of them had a good game or two in the past - again, SO WHAT? Everyone has a decent game here or there. You say ALL those players you named are CURRENTLY Mavs-killers? Nonsense - total unadulterated horse hockey.

What do you mean they started years ago. Swift and Griffin started this season. Dike, Taylor, Grant, Fortson started just LAST season. And Songalia, Madsen and Horry have all started when a starter's been injured. Like i said earlier, i didn't make this stuff up.

Quote:

You are afflicted with "grass is greener over the fence" eyesight. All those players (again with the possible exception of Swift) are mediocre, and if they (rather than Hendu) were on the Mavs where you watched them every game rather than seeing them for a few minutes once a month or less, you would realize the Mavs have something that isnt broke, so it doesnt need fixing. Henderson is making a significant contribution this year, and people in the Mavs organization are very aware of that fact, whether you can see it or not.

The grass is greener if they have players that are better fit for our team then Henderson.

And for your information, i've seen all but ONE Mavs game this season, and i know that Henderson himself hasn't been solid every game. He was really good at the beginning of the season, but he came back to reality after a few games. Now i think his overall play is good, but he isn't that much better if at all than Najera.

The Mavs frontcourt are much like my computer, it's not broke, but it's out-dated.

fin4life · 02-23-2005, 01:06 PM

Pirate and Nash... you have been arguing about this for 2 days. Give it a rest.

and BTW... those players are scrubs

Nash13 · 02-23-2005, 01:16 PM

I'm really not trying argue, i was just trying to get a point across.

Pirate · 02-23-2005, 03:25 PM

I am also trying to get a point across - which is, Henderson is just fine, and the Mavs are NOT trailing other teams in the quality of the play they are getting out of their backup big men.

As for PJ Brown, I dont see any way he is a feasible answer for 15 minutes a game, which is what Henderson is playing and thus what he would get if they acquired him.

If you want my best evidence of how accurate I am - I will submit that Henderson, because of his expiring contract and his pretty good play this year, is VERY marketable at this point. Doesnt everyone agree to that?

SOOOOOO ... IF the Mavs think he isnt giving what they want, and IF they think other options are better, and IF they think they are lagging badly behind other teams, then they can easily make a trade. NOW - sit and watch, and see what they do. I believe they will do nothing - because they like what Henderson (and Booth and Bradley) are providing, and they know what they have is just fine compared to everyone else. Just sit back and watch, and we'll see whether the EXPERTS (the Mavs front office, who see this stuff up close and know EXACTLY whether they are getting something good or not) are satisfied.

Poindexter Einstein · 02-23-2005, 06:15 PM

Henderson's play this year is very underrated. I've been surprisingly impressed with what I've seen, more often than not.

PepperTheMavsFan41 · 02-24-2005, 01:35 PM

Heres one last prayer that Cuban gets PJ Done.

V2M · 02-24-2005, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Pirate
I am also trying to get a point across - which is, Henderson is just fine, and the Mavs are NOT trailing other teams in the quality of the play they are getting out of their backup big men.

As for PJ Brown, I dont see any way he is a feasible answer for 15 minutes a game, which is what Henderson is playing and thus what he would get if they acquired him.

If you want my best evidence of how accurate I am - I will submit that Henderson, because of his expiring contract and his pretty good play this year, is VERY marketable at this point. Doesnt everyone agree to that?

SOOOOOO ... IF the Mavs think he isnt giving what they want, and IF they think other options are better, and IF they think they are lagging badly behind other teams, then they can easily make a trade. NOW - sit and watch, and see what they do. I believe they will do nothing - because they like what Henderson (and Booth and Bradley) are providing, and they know what they have is just fine compared to everyone else. Just sit back and watch, and we'll see whether the EXPERTS (the Mavs front office, who see this stuff up close and know EXACTLY whether they are getting something good or not) are satisfied.

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