Official offseason 2013-2014 thread

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Honestly, I don't know why people insist on worrying about this. If a point guard not named Chris Paul, or a center not named Dwight Howard agrees to a contract while the two big names have yet to make up their mind, then the point guard or center in question was either never going to do otherwise, or they have the worst agent in pro sports. And nobody who's any good has an agent that bad, so we're really just down to the player having their mind made up long before July 1 even gets here.

Don't confuse what the media and message boards fixate on for what the team is actually doing.

This is true really only of starters in the league and maybe the premier back ups. Many second stringers/role players will get tolerable contracts prior to the signing of the big guys and likely be willing to sign them simply to get a raise or to play for a better team. The real challenge is what happens if Dwight signs and Paul drags it out. You certainly want to make bids for Paul and want to keep the cap to do such, but while you are waiting other teams with no PG needs are snapping up all the good role players and we have a lot of slots to fill in addition to starting PG/C.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I still give it to the Clippers. Brooklyn at least made it go seven games whereas the Clippers started out 2-0 just to lose four straight. Plus, Clips won 56 versus 49 for the Nets.

All true, but the Clips played a very, very stout Grizzlies team. The Nets played the Bulls B-team and still lost twice at home. That's pretty awful.

Plus, the Nets have a higher payroll.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

This is true really only of starters in the league and maybe the premier back ups. Many second stringers/role players will get tolerable contracts prior to the signing of the big guys and likely be willing to sign them simply to get a raise or to play for a better team. The real challenge is what happens if Dwight signs and Paul drags it out. You certainly want to make bids for Paul and want to keep the cap to do such, but while you are waiting other teams with no PG needs are snapping up all the good role players and we have a lot of slots to fill in addition to starting PG/C.

1) The second-stringers/role-players are not going to be the pivot on which Dallas offseason turns. Dallas needs to come to favorable terms with 30+ mpg, starting-caliber players. And they will, and should, be preserving as much cap flexibility as they can for that purpose and that purpose alone at least until the first round of chips has fallen.

2) Dallas may very well end up arriving at an agreement in principle on a vet min, room exception, or early bird exception contract early in the game.

3) I disagree that what I originally said doesn't apply to second-stringers/role players. At least the ones worth talking about. Because out of that pool the ones that go off the market quickly usually either go to Miami or some other high probability contender, or they stick with their current team. In either case I'd say it's pretty obvious they knew what they were doing before the carousel even got to turning, and just as obvious that Dallas would not have been on their radar.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

1) The second-stringers/role-players are not going to be the pivot on which Dallas offseason turns. Dallas needs to come to favorable terms with 30+ mpg, starting-caliber players. And they will, and should, be preserving as much cap flexibility as they can for that purpose and that purpose alone at least until the first round of chips has fallen.

2) Dallas may very well end up arriving at an agreement in principle on a vet min, room exception, or early bird exception contract early in the game.

3) I disagree that what I originally said doesn't apply to second-stringers/role players. At least the ones worth talking about. Because out of that pool the ones that go off the market quickly usually either go to Miami or some other high probability contender, or they stick with their current team. In either case I'd say it's pretty obvious they knew what they were doing before the carousel even got to turning, and just as obvious that Dallas would not have been on their radar.

Point 3 was the one I was trying to make. Solid role players who aren't going to earn big contracts, the most desirable to back fill a roster which is financially limited by multiple max players, are exactly the types of players the Mavs will need to flesh out a roster. I don't see a vet min, 3 point specialist or lock down defense (but limited offensive) SG waiting for CP or Dwight to sign if OKC, SA, NYC, or really any other upper tier playoff team offers them a fair salary. I'd say many of these players know what they'd like to do and if that opportunity arrives, they take it. While I'm sure it happens some, technically its against the rules to be courting these guys until free agency begins so its not like they all automatically know who's going to be offering them deals.

[Budapest Maverick]

I just hope Paul and Howard will allow Cuban, Dirk, and Carlisle to pitch this thing for them before they make their decision. No question in my mind the FO wants to build our big 3. Well, no s**t, i guess. Every team wants that has the capspace, or can create it, like us. That's like 5-6 teams i guess, but realistically, i can only see the Hawks, us, and the Rockets as players.

[SMC0007]

The best most interesting off season in a long time.

[Windmill360]

Chris paul exit interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=fTUtiH2phuY

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

I don't see a vet min, 3 point specialist or lock down defense (but limited offensive) SG waiting for CP or Dwight to sign if OKC, SA, NYC, or really any other upper tier playoff team offers them a fair salary. I'd say many of these players know what they'd like to do and if that opportunity arrives, they take it.

In what way is this not exactly the point I was originally making?

And these guys who are going to jump at the opportunity to join OKC or SA would be interested in signing with Dallas before the Mavs have successfully addressed their need for a starting point guard why?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

The best most interesting off season in a long time.

Biggest offseason in my Mavs fandom (which began with Dirk/Nash).

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Windmill360

Chris paul exit interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=fTUtiH2phuY

Money is always important, but it really sounds like "winning" is going to be a priority for CP3 this offseason... It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out - especially if he looks at how "taking the money" is working out for Deron Williams.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Biggest offseason in my Mavs fandom (which began with Dirk/Nash).

+1

[grndmstr_c]

My vote for biggest offseason goes to Dirk's turn as an unrestricted free agent just prior to the title season. It's going to take a whole lot of ?????? to unseat that one.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

My vote for biggest offseason goes to Dirk's turn as an unrestricted free agent just prior to the title season. It's going to take a whole lot of ?????? to unseat that one.

Yeah, but that wasn't the biggest offseason going in - it's not like Mavs fans were anticipating that or anything.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

In what way is this not exactly the point I was originally making?

And these guys who are going to jump at the opportunity to join OKC or SA would be interested in signing with Dallas before the Mavs have successfully addressed their need for a starting point guard why?

There is a big difference in knowing what one would like to do versus what opportunities they are presented with. All I'm saying. The solid roles players who can also be difference makers in the right scenarios will likely take the first better offer they get versus holding out. If Dallas waits deep into free agency working on a star, they will be picking up scraps across the board. Don't forget, we've got a lot of the bench which needs stocking as well. Having a deep team can be a difference maker in this league, look at Chicago.

I know Paul is a long shot, but 2 great articles on the topic:

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...an-vs-sterling

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...-as-it-appears

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, but that wasn't the biggest offseason going in - it's not like Mavs fans were anticipating that or anything.

The title was the validation, for sure. Still, to me, going into that summer the possibility of losing Dirk while he was still undeniably in his prime just meant so much more.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

If Dallas waits deep into free agency working on a star, they will be picking up scraps across the board.

So what? Are you saying don't work on the star? Or are you arguing that there's a significant difference between the rotation/depth guys who sign early and the rotation/depth guys who sign late (other than that one group is either overpaid or was never an option in the first place)? Because obviously I'd disagree on both counts.

Don't forget, we've got a lot of the bench which needs stocking as well. Having a deep team can be a difference maker in this league, look at Chicago.

Not forgetting anything. What money do you propose to sign them with? Like I indicated earlier, Dallas will have vet min contracts, a room exception, and an early bird exception on Brandan to fill out their roster in free agency if they land Chris or Dwight. They'll almost certainly look to make the best use of those that they can from the get go. Any other negotiations will and should be contingent on Chris and Dwight choosing to sign elsewhere.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

There are tons of plan bs but only a few players would be considered a plan a. A plan a player is Paul, Howard, and mayyybe Bynum. I suppose you can throw in Josh Smith. Those are four players. To not even try for the likes of Chris Paul is lunacy.

A solid plan b is pretty guaranteed to happen no matter what if those four players listed above don't happen.

[Underdog]

Screw Plan B... We didn't dismantle our championship team for Plan B.

Besides, who did we miss out on while we were busy courting D-Will? I seem to remember guys like Nash, Lin and Dragic getting deals AFTER Williams decided to stay in Brooklyn.

There's a pecking order in free agency. Nobody of consequence is going to sign a contract until the big names do - especially since the teams who strike out on those big names are going to be more desperate, thus more likely to overpay for the second-tier players. If we don't get Chris Paul, then guys like Jack and Calderon will still be there.

[EricaLubarsky]

You can talk with guys without offering money. There is no reason that we couldn't try to woo 4-5 guys once the moratorium is over and the new CBA also only gives current teams 3 days to match instead of 7, so we can hypothetically take bigger risks with RFAs too, not that there are a ton of high-quality guys there.

Potential RFA targets:
Jeff Teague (G)
Brendan Jennings (G)
Eric Maynor (G)
Gary Neal (G)

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by Windmill360

Chris paul exit interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=fTUtiH2phuY

I spotted a beard he's growing. Hm.. hopeful hint to Dirk perhaps. My translation to that interview was him saying "This overrated squad couldn't do squat in the playoffs 2nd year in a row. It's like I have to do everything while Blake flops and DeAndre Jordan plays like a dense fool". I heard nothing about him saying "I'll be back" either.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Screw Plan B... We didn't dismantle our championship team for Plan B.

Besides, who did we miss out on while we were busy courting D-Will? I seem to remember guys like Nash, Lin and Dragic getting deals AFTER Williams decided to stay in Brooklyn.

There's a pecking order in free agency. Nobody of consequence is going to sign a contract until the big names do - especially since the teams who strike out on those big names are going to be more desperate, thus more likely to overpay for the second-tier players. If we don't get Chris Paul, then guys like Jack and Calderon will still be there.

If Nash and Kidd were "hanging around" after Williams signed, why didn't we sign them up? Oh yeah...Now, in retrospect Williams' made a pretty poor choice and will be stuck with the same cast in next year's first round exit if they make the playoffs.

I think the case Cuban is a better owner and will spend to improve the team around CP is a strong argument, one need only look at how much he's spent to build the team around Dirk (and how much he's getting paid). If nothing else, Cuban has proven how "faithful" he's been to his star player.

All I'm saying is they need to be simultaneously working the Plan B for insurance. And to be honest, I think the idea Jack is any more available than Paul is a long shot. From the horse's mouth: "I believe everything will work out," Jack said. "I want to be here and if they want me here, it will work out." Now,of course money can change a player's mind...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

If Nash and Kidd were "hanging around" after Williams signed, why didn't we sign them up?

Because Nash wanted more money than Cuban thought he was worth and Kidd bolted after we struck out on D-Will... Just because we didn't get them doesn't mean they weren't available (and by "available" I mean "unsigned").

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

All I'm saying is they need to be simultaneously working the Plan B for insurance.

I'm pretty sure Mark and Donnie are ALWAYS doing that... But they're not going to pull the trigger on Plan B until Plan A is exhausted. Our front office is more concerned with winning than not losing, if you get my meaning.

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

And to be honest, I think the idea Jack is any more available than Paul is a long shot. From the horse's mouth: "I believe everything will work out," Jack said. "I want to be here and if they want me here, it will work out." Now,of course money can change a player's mind...

I'm willing to concede that the one case where a player isn't "available" is if they re-sign with the same team without exploring any other options... But I don't think any agent worth their salt is going to let a client re-sign without exploring other options, unless we're talking about the face of the franchise (guys like Kobe, Duncan or Dirk)... And even then, I'm sure they're at least willing to hear what other teams have to say, even if the likelihood of them leaving is nil.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Honestly, I don't know why people insist on worrying about this. If a point guard not named Chris Paul, or a center not named Dwight Howard agrees to a contract while the two big names have yet to make up their mind, then the point guard or center in question was either never going to do otherwise, or they have the worst agent in pro sports. And nobody who's any good has an agent that bad, so we're really just down to the player having their mind made up long before July 1 even gets here.

Don't confuse what the media and message boards fixate on for what the team is actually doing.

You know, I agree with you 90% of the time, but I just have to disagree with this one. If this offseason is anything like the summer of 2012, then players and agents know that the longer you wait to sign, the less $$ is out there for the taking. Dwight, being as flakey as he is, could wait months to sign a contract with someone. Who knows what his immature and indecisive brain will tell him to do. RFAs like Pekovic are likely to be offered a contract relatively quickly, so his new potential team can move on to Plan B if he re-signs. Same thing with Jennings (although I'm not a fan). I'm by no means saying you skip the Dwight and CP3 sweepstakes, but you've got to think ahead and figure out a reasonable timeline within which you are willing to wait.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

If this offseason is anything like the summer of 2012, then players and agents know that the longer you wait to sign, the less $$ is out there for the taking.

Who made less money in 2012??

Nash, Lin, Dragic and Kidd all waited for D-Will to make a decision, and you can make a pretty strong argument that all four of them are overpaid for their output and/or have too many years on their contract. I wouldn't want the Mavs to be stuck with any of those contracts.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

There is no way Dwight and Paul will wait months to make a decision. They basically have two months starting when they both exited in the first round to make that decision. Could you imagine the PR disaster if the FO didn't try their best to get them? The whole point of having cap space is to sign or trade for these types of players. Tier 2 type players are always available for the right price. A Paul and Dwight don't become free agents very often.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Who made less money in 2012??

Nash, Lin, Dragic and Kidd all waited for D-Will to make a decision, and you can make a pretty strong argument that all four of them are overpaid for their output and/or have too many years on their contract. I wouldn't want the Mavs to be stuck with any of those contracts.

The way I remember it all those teams had 2 plans in place ready to go...except Dallas who was left scrambling (though who knows what was happening behind the scenes). Brooklyn's back up was Dragic, as soon as Williams was signed, Dragic was signed to the Suns and the Nash sign and trade went down. Kidd didn't really want to start anymore and saw the mess Dallas was in and opted to go to New York to backup/mentor Lin, after which (unfortunately for Kidd) New York felt they had enough talent to let Lin go and save some money. IIRC, the Houston offer for Lin was the first to go down, and NY drug it's feet to match (though said they would match any offer) ultimately letting him go. If you think there will be some time to reset after Paul or Howard signs, think again. It will go down exactly the same with all the dominoes falling very quickly. Any team without a plan B ready to go immediately will be left scrambling. Dallas ended up with their plan D (A=Williams, B=Kidd/West, C = Beaubois/Cunningham, D = James/Fisher/Collison/Jones/Akognon/whatever other scrubs they rolled in and out). They can't let that happen again. You guys are entirely missing my point. I'm not saying go out and sign a bunch of backups first, but the full plan must be laid out like yesterday and they need to be actively perusing several backup lineups as well rather than putting all eggs in one basket.

[sefant77]

Long two months. Even the lottery will be pretty boring for us. The small hope to slide into the Top3 and thats it. They will take the BPA. No way in hell they will do a major draft day trade with adding salary.

Not before Paul/Dwight are gone in the first july week

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

The way I remember it all those teams had 2 plans in place ready to go...except Dallas who was left scrambling (though who knows what was happening behind the scenes). Brooklyn's back up was Dragic, as soon as Williams was signed, Dragic was signed to the Suns and the Nash sign and trade went down. Kidd didn't really want to start anymore and saw the mess Dallas was in and opted to go to New York to backup/mentor Lin, after which (unfortunately for Kidd) New York felt they had enough talent to let Lin go and save some money. If you think there will be some time to reset after Paul or Howard signs, think again. It will go down exactly the same with all the dominoes falling very quickly. Any team without a plan B ready to go immediately will be left scrambling. Dallas ended up with their plan D (A=Williams, B=Kidd/West, C = Beaubois/Cunningham, D = James/Fisher/Collison/Jones/Akognon/whatever other scrubs they rolled in and out). They can't let that happen again...

At the time, Collison/Mayo/Kaman looked like a pretty decent plan B, especially without taking on long term salary. Hindsight is always 20/20. And it was us or NY for Deron. And this time around, we'll be one of five teams that I do believe Paul and Howard will consider. You take odds like that for those kinds of players every time.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

At the time, Collison/Mayo/Kaman looked like a pretty decent plan B, especially without taking on long term salary. Hindsight is always 20/20. And it was us or NY for Deron. And this time around, we'll be one of five teams that I do believe Paul and Howard will consider. You take odds like that for those kinds of players every time.

I'm not saying you don't play the odds. All I'm saying, they need a plan B actively working. Collison was plan C for the Mavs, they got played in last year's off season...

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Who made less money in 2012??

Nash, Lin, Dragic and Kidd all waited for D-Will to make a decision, and you can make a pretty strong argument that all four of them are overpaid for their output and/or have too many years on their contract. I wouldn't want the Mavs to be stuck with any of those contracts.

Actually, I think if you look back at the timeline Dragic, Nash, and Lin all agreed to sign at about the same time as Deron. Regardless if they are good or bad contracts they were negotiating with teams at the same time as DWill. I expect that Jefferson, Calderon, and Jack will be negotiating around the same time as Dwight and CP3, but we'll have to wait and see. Likewise, I'd be surprised if we don't hear news of a Pekovic or Jennings signing early in the offseason. If any of these players sign within the same time frame as Dwight or Paul, we can assume, as gm_c suggests, that the Mavs had no chance from the get go. I'm not inclined to readily agree with that assessment, but I guess its possible. It seems to me that a guy like Calderon might not seem worth $8-9M/yr in July, but teams might wish they had him for that price in August because there are very few quality options left on the table. For example, I might argue that Dragic at $7.5M seems outlandish right now, but, if the Mavs fail to sign Calderon, Jack, Paul, or Jennings and can't make a trade for a quality PG elsewhere, then that Dragic pricetag seems a bit easier to swallow.

As far as who signed for less, I will go back and look at last years signings when I have more time. But it seems to me there were quite a few one year deals signed late in the offseason that were a bit surprising.

[sefant77]

They didnt get played.

With the begin of the Johnson to the Nets rumors they warned Deron that this move would be terrible and kill all their future for years.

And look now and guess what Deron is thinking. Mavs didnt get played, deron was just blind and stupid...

[Budapest Maverick]

Plan B is pretty simple. If Paul and Howard are off the market, you go for the next available players. There are quite a few who could make us competitive again. Not contenders, but a solid playoff team. Anyway, you can't talk those players before Paul and Dwight regardless, i mean can you imagine something like that: "we really want you, but let's wait what Paul and Howard does". Of course you can't. But it likely doesn't matter, as only players that really made up their mind will sign before Howard and Paul, the others will wait as Underdog wrote. So really, no need to worry about that.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by sefant77

They didnt get played.

With the begin of the Johnson to the Nets rumors they warned Deron that this move would be terrible and kill all their future for years.

And look now and guess what Deron is thinking. Mavs didnt get played, deron was just blind and stupid...

They certainly got played. They had to fall back to their plan C. Of course, if the Mavs end up with CP (doubtful) then it will look like genius that Cuban opted not to meet with Williams.

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Plan B is pretty simple. If Paul and Howard are off the market, you go for the next available players. There are quite a few who could make us competitive again. Not contenders, but a solid playoff team. Anyway, you can't talk those players before Paul and Dwight regardless, i mean can you imagine something like that: "we really want you, but let's wait what Paul and Howard does". Of course you can't. But it likely doesn't matter, as only players that really made up their mind will sign before Howard and Paul, the others will wait as Underdog wrote. So really, no need to worry about that.

Except if you don't have the groundwork laid, the next available players are already gone and you've fallen to the scrubs. You don't call them and say hey if it doesn't work out with CP we want you, you call them and express your interest, you send out Michael Finley to meet with them, etc. You guys realize teams can't talk to players until free agency right? I mean, I'm sure back door messages get around but players under contract can't be officially courted by other teams.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

There is no way Dwight and Paul will wait months to make a decision. They basically have two months starting when they both exited in the first round to make that decision. Could you imagine the PR disaster if the FO didn't try their best to get them? The whole point of having cap space is to sign or trade for these types of players. Tier 2 type players are always available for the right price. A Paul and Dwight don't become free agents very often.

I think Dwight is a wild card. He has proven to be so indecisive that almost anything is possible. Paul will probably sign within a timeframe similar to DWill unless he is trying to work something out where he and Dwight go to the same team (doubtful). But really if, as you say, Dwight and CP3 sign in early July, then all this discussion is moot as long as the Mavs have their backup plans ready to implement. I'm just saying that you don't wait around until the end of July or into August for Dwight Howard to make up his mind. Double that if you see other FA and RFA signings. He is too unpredictable.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

They didnt get played.

With the begin of the Johnson to the Nets rumors they warned Deron that this move would be terrible and kill all their future for years.

And look now and guess what Deron is thinking. Mavs didnt get played, deron was just blind and stupid...

Pretty much.

Mavs said, "we'll pay you max and you can play with Dirk and Marion. We dont know what other moves we'll make".
Nets said, "we'll pay you max, we'll re-sign Lopez and Wallace and get you an all-star (Johnson).

One of those two was more appealing at the time. Now Brooklyn can only improve via late first-rounders and they are 20mill over the cap with harsher taxes kicking in.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

You know, I agree with you 90% of the time, but I just have to disagree with this one. If this offseason is anything like the summer of 2012, then players and agents know that the longer you wait to sign, the less $$ is out there for the taking. Dwight, being as flakey as he is, could wait months to sign a contract with someone. Who knows what his immature and indecisive brain will tell him to do. RFAs like Pekovic are likely to be offered a contract relatively quickly, so his new potential team can move on to Plan B if he re-signs. Same thing with Jennings (although I'm not a fan). I'm by no means saying you skip the Dwight and CP3 sweepstakes, but you've got to think ahead and figure out a reasonable timeline within which you are willing to wait.

You've got it backwards. The players who signed late last summer didn't lose money by waiting. They waited to see if the offers would come up, and/or to try to latch on with the team or teams they thought would give them their best chance to boost their value. It'll be the same this summer. Teams with space will have their priority list. Some of them will make early, aggressive bids for their top choices (Portland to Pek, say), and some will reach agreement with those top choices, and message board posters will cry about the Mavs spending all their time on Chris Paul's doorstep while all the good free agents get snatched up by other teams, ignoring the fact that Dallas would never have agreed to pay that much for Pekovic even if they weren't chasing Chris Paul. Meanwhile, any player with even a passing interest in Dallas who plays a position of need for the Mavs, doesn't have his sights set on Miami or OKC, and is at all dissatisfied with their current team, or is anything short of blown away by the current best offer on the table, will wait to see what Chris Paul and Dwight Howard decide to do, in the hope that by waiting they'll be able to increase their chances for a big payday, or at least catch on with a more desirable/less dysfunctional franchise with which to build up their value.

As a side note, I actually won't be surprised to see Jennings wait it out and just end up eventually signing his qualifying offer.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

They certainly got played. They had to fall back to their plan C.

If getting played means having the one high-salary guy on the market that you were willing to commit multiple years to decide to take more money to stay with his current team after they locked themselves into years of mediocrity with two monumentally worthless and/or expensive trades in the span of a few months, then waiting out the middle portion of free agency while a bunch of unexceptional guys get overpaid by crappy teams, before finally filling out an undoubtedly flawed but arguably playoff-caliber roster (allowing for a healthy Dirk) without in any way impairing your ability to get in on next summer's bidding for two players who are better than the one you missed out on, then yeah, I suppose the Mavs got played.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

If getting played means having the one high-salary guy on the market that you were willing to commit multiple years to decide to take more money to stay with his current team after they locked themselves into years of mediocrity with two monumentally worthless and/or expensive trades in the span of a few months, then waiting out the middle portion of free agency while a bunch of unexceptional guys get overpaid by crappy teams, before finally filling out an undoubtedly flawed but arguably playoff-caliber roster (allowing for a healthy Dirk) without in any way impairing your ability to get in on next summer's bidding for two players who are better than the one you missed out on, then yeah, I suppose the Mavs got played.

Yes it does. When your plan B agrees to a contract, then backs out forcing you to fall back to your plan C, and then your plan C isn't even good enough that you end up signing a player who has already written his memoirs of playing in the NBA after releasing your plan D who signs with the Thunder, you got played. Sorry, the FO screwed up last year. Let's just hit the reset button and forget about it...

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Pretty much.

Mavs said, "we'll pay you max and you can play with Dirk and Marion. We dont know what other moves we'll make".
Nets said, "we'll pay you max, we'll re-sign Lopez and Wallace and get you an all-star (Johnson).

One of those two was more appealing at the time. Now Brooklyn can only improve via late first-rounders and they are 20mill over the cap with harsher taxes kicking in.

With Crash and JJ just getting older and JJ coming off another terrible playoff series...guy shot like 20% from downtown...

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

Yes it does. When your plan B agrees to a contract, then backs out forcing you to fall back to your plan C, and then your plan C isn't even good enough that you end up signing a player who has already written his memoirs of playing in the NBA after releasing your plan D who signs with the Thunder, you got played. Sorry, the FO screwed up last year. Let's just hit the reset button and forget about it...

So they got played by Kidd and Fisher, is that it? Meh. I'll grant you they both pulled some douchbaggery with the Mavs, but not having Kidd on the books next year is a blessing, and while Fish would've helped had he stayed on board, he's hardly worth crying about, as he's also not a guy worth building around. Both of them are probably about to get the playoff exits they deserve, anyway, and the organizational reset button on those disappointments was hit long ago.

If you're going to persist in trying to claim that Dallas got played because they had the good sense to sit out a poor free agent market after the top guy went off the board, though, you're arguing a losing, and very misinformed, point.