Let's talk roster. - Page 12 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

markus1234 · 07-18-2012, 11:08 AM

Show me a play where West passes the ball to Dirk for an open shot. You won't find many....

In the playoffs West actually force-fed Brandon Haywood (who then tried to dribble the ball like a guard), it was painful to watch to say the least.

To make it short, i am pretty disappointed with West. He had plenty of time to study our game when he was injured, especially Dirk's sweet spots. But when he came back it looked even worse than at the beginning of the season.

As a backup SG (like Dsteve) for 15min he is OK though.

sike · 07-18-2012, 11:11 AM

What I hope happens for both DC and Mayo is for the team/Carlisle/Dirk to embrace them in such a way that they are given grace to grow into their starter roles. BOTH of them have been benched last season (2 seasons for Mayo) despite their talent...they need a team that will help nurture and coach the best out of them. If either of them regularly get a quick hook to the bench, it could be counter productive over the long haul.

jthig32 · 07-18-2012, 11:13 AM

How many minutes does everyone see Brand playing? I mentioned on another site that he could play 30+ minutes and got a lot of dissenting opinions.

I feel like he's going to get 10-13 minutes at PF, and around 20 minutes at center. Even if the averages, say 18 minutes a center during the normal rotation (which I think is low), his minutes will go way up if Kaman goes through injury issues.

markus1234 · 07-18-2012, 11:16 AM

Brand/Dirk/Kaman will be huge in b2b situations. It should keep our front court fresh and agressive (rebounding, defense).

Kante · 07-18-2012, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

How many minutes does everyone see Brand playing? I mentioned on another site that he could play 30+ minutes and got a lot of dissenting opinions.

I feel like he's going to get 10-13 minutes at PF, and around 20 minutes at center. Even if the averages, say 18 minutes a center during the normal rotation (which I think is low), his minutes will go way up if Kaman goes through injury issues.

I think Dirk/Brand/Kaman will be around 30 minutes. Likely the same what RC did with Butler/Marion/Dirk when they were healthy at the start of 2010-11. Wright to fill in the other minutes or Marion and at the end you ride with who's hot next to Dirk.

Murphy3 · 07-18-2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

How many minutes does everyone see Brand playing? I mentioned on another site that he could play 30+ minutes and got a lot of dissenting opinions.

I feel like he's going to get 10-13 minutes at PF, and around 20 minutes at center. Even if the averages, say 18 minutes a center during the normal rotation (which I think is low), his minutes will go way up if Kaman goes through injury issues.

Personally, I've expected Brand to get 30-32 mpg... Kaman will probably be about the same. Dirk will probably see his minutes reduce down to 32-33 or so.

Some might depend upon Wright. If the Mavs can reduce Kaman and Brand to the 27-28 mpg range, that might help to keep both of them fresher. Kaman has a decent injury history.. Brand isn't getting any younger. If Wright allows the Mavs to get away with reducing Kaman and Brand's minutes, then the Mavs would probably love to do so. And let's be honest, it's very possible that Dirk's minutes are right back at around the 34-35mpg mark.

grndmstr_c · 07-18-2012, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

How many minutes does everyone see Brand playing? I mentioned on another site that he could play 30+ minutes and got a lot of dissenting opinions.

I feel like he's going to get 10-13 minutes at PF, and around 20 minutes at center. Even if the averages, say 18 minutes a center during the normal rotation (which I think is low), his minutes will go way up if Kaman goes through injury issues.

30+ isn't unreasonable at all, IMO. Elton's a better player than Chris, who, even if he's healthy and playing well, isn't likely to be a heavy minute guy. And they're not going to run Dirk into the ground, either. I do think Shawn will continue to get PF minutes, both to allow Rick to take advantage of some of his backcourt speed, and to make a little room for Vince and to a lesser extent Crowder at SF, and that'll help keep Elton's minutes down somewhat. But in tight, important games, I suspect Elton will be the go-to center more often than not, and his minute totals should reflect that.

sike · 07-18-2012, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Personally, I've expected Brand to get 30-32 mpg... Kaman will probably be about the same. Dirk will probably see his minutes reduce down to 32-33 or so.

This is about what I'm hoping for. Dirk playing 32minutes will be a great sign that the other guys (Mayo, DC, Kaman, Brand) are carrying their load.

Quote:

Some might depend upon Wright. If the Mavs can reduce Kaman and Brand to the 27-28 mpg range, that might help to keep both of them fresher. Kaman has a decent injury history.. Brand isn't getting any younger. If Wright allows the Mavs to get away with reducing Kaman and Brand's minutes, then the Mavs would probably love to do so. And let's be honest, it's very possible that Dirk's minutes are right back at around the 34-35mpg mark.

If Wright is almost a forgotten man, I'm fine with that. If Carlisle feels he can contribute, I'm fine with that.

sike · 07-18-2012, 11:32 AM

Dirk averaged 33.5min per game last season. It would be great to see that drop by a couple minutes per game.

Bayliss · 07-18-2012, 11:36 AM

Well there are 96 minutes between the PF and C spots combined. And I can see Brand/Dirk/Kaman playing the majority of those minutes if healthy. Dirk has already started his downward trend with minutes. Last year he only played 33 minutes a night. I don't see Carlisle will play him more than that this year. And Kaman and Brand are capable of playing 30 minutes a night apiece.

Highlight_15 · 07-18-2012, 11:40 AM

Collison had games of 17,18, and 20 assists during his rookie season. He's a UCLA product, the kid could be a big surprise. Indy didn't match his strengths and I think the Mavs' pick and roll offense will do wonders for him. He already talked to RC about the offense and is watching film on his teammates. I expect him to get 8-10 assists a game (he can also score a little, torched the Mavs for 35 once).

BGMaverick9 · 07-18-2012, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highlight_15

Collison had games of 17,18, and 20 assists during his rookie season. He's a UCLA product, the kid could be a big surprise. Indy didn't match his strengths and I think the Mavs' pick and roll offense will do wonders for him. He already talked to RC about the offense and is watching film on his teammates. I expect him to get 8-10 assists a game (he can also score a little, torched the Mavs for 35 once).

Hmmm

CaseyJones · 07-18-2012, 11:44 AM

Center position worries be. I'd rather have an actual center backing up Kaman than to know that Brand and Wright will be coming in as center.
They should make a couple more moves before they say that team is ready, but i have a feeling there won't be anyone else added to the roster.

Also, I almost forgot to mention how painful it is knowing that VC will be getting way too many minutes backing up Marion.

sike · 07-18-2012, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highlight_15

Collison had games of 17,18, and 20 assists during his rookie season. He's a UCLA product, the kid could be a big surprise. Indy didn't match his strengths and I think the Mavs' pick and roll offense will do wonders for him. He already talked to RC about the offense and is watching film on his teammates. I expect him to get 8-10 assists a game (he can also score a little, torched the Mavs for 35 once).

He has openly said that he is excited to get back to the pick and roll game in Dallas. He feels that is a personal strength of his.

roadrunner · 07-18-2012, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaseyJones

Center position worries be. I'd rather have an actual center backing up Kaman than to know that Brand and Wright will be coming in as center.
They should make a couple more moves before they say that team is ready, but i have a feeling there won't be anyone else added to the roster.

Also, I almost forgot to mention how painful it is knowing that VC will be getting way too many minutes backing up Marion.

Brand can play center at a high level. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find he is our starting and closing center this year. If u haven't already go check out the article that made a great case for DPOY as a center last year. It was posted by LDub in the Brand to Dallas thread. May change your opinion on him.

Kante · 07-18-2012, 01:25 PM

Brand can play C with no problem. Can be an elite defender if it's needed. I assume he will close more games than not.

Kidd Karma · 07-18-2012, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

I see no reason that DC/West wouldn't be a satisfactory PG line up. (Obviously West can also play the 2)

Agreed, DC for 28, West for 20. OJ can handle as well.

Dale4Saul2Red0 · 07-18-2012, 02:33 PM

Mavs are going to be that team no 1-4 seed wants to see in the 1st round. As bad as we were last year and yes we lost 4-0 to the Thunder in the 1st round, but the Mavs could have easily won 2 of those games and were in position to do so. Team isn't championship caliber, but by god are we going to be a tough out. Don't underestimate the hunger of players who haven't won a title either that we brought in.

sike · 07-18-2012, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Agreed, DC for 28, West for 20. OJ can handle as well.

I'd like to think that the 24 yr old PG could get over 30min a game.

We'll see though.

markus1234 · 07-18-2012, 03:50 PM

Collison and Mayo should play ~40min. It would be a different story, if we had better alternatives on the bench.

PG: Collison 40 Roddy 8
SG: Mayo 40 Jones 8
SF: Marion 30 Carter 18
PF: Dirk 33 Brand 15
C: Kaman 28 Brand 12 Wright 8

Underdog · 07-18-2012, 03:50 PM

Kinda hard to predict minutes for Delonte West when he isn't even on our roster yet...

nowhereman · 07-18-2012, 03:51 PM

I could see Marion getting some minutes at the 4, with Kaman/Brand exclusively at the 5. Especially if Crowder starts earning some decent minutes. Wouldn't be surprised to see much VC at the 3, either.

Kidd Karma · 07-18-2012, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

I'd like to think that the 24 yr old PG could get over 30min a game.

We'll see though.

True, we'll see about RC's leash. Pretty loose with Kidd, see how tight it is with DC.

turin · 07-18-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

True, we'll see about RC's leash. Pretty loose with Kidd, see how tight it is with DC.

I just hope RC doesn't choke him unconscious with that leash. :-O

I'm very much looking forward to this coming season. I think the Mavs will be around the #4 spot. The key to any playoff run though is going to be CLOSING games. I think this team is more talented than last years. I just hope they can close significantly better. With better closing, the 2011-2012 team could've made OKC sweat it out during their series.

BGMaverick9 · 07-18-2012, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

I just hope RC doesn't choke him unconscious with that leash. :-O

I'm very much looking forward to this coming season. I think the Mavs will be around the #4 spot. The key to any playoff run though is going to be CLOSING games. I think this team is more talented than last years. I just hope they can close significantly better. With better closing, the 2011-2012 team could've made OKC sweat it out during their series.

With better closes, or more luck, they wouldn't have faced OKC in the first round.

Murphy3 · 07-18-2012, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

I could see Marion getting some minutes at the 4, with Kaman/Brand exclusively at the 5. Especially if Crowder starts earning some decent minutes. Wouldn't be surprised to see much VC at the 3, either.

I don't see that at all. Brand will get significant minutes at the 4.

Kidd Karma · 07-18-2012, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

I just hope RC doesn't choke him unconscious with that leash. :-O

I'm very much looking forward to this coming season. I think the Mavs will be around the #4 spot. The key to any playoff run though is going to be CLOSING games. I think this team is more talented than last years. I just hope they can close significantly better. With better closing, the 2011-2012 team could've made OKC sweat it out during their series.

Team is deeper, Dirk should be in better shape to start, rather than play catch up all year. Get a top 4 seed, 1st round opponent doesn't turn out to be a Finalist. Get the mojo running into the conference championship round....and at that point anything can happen, with Dirk on our side, I'll take it.

sike · 07-18-2012, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Team is deeper, Dirk should be in better shape to start, rather than play catch up all year. Get a top 4 seed, 1st round opponent doesn't turn out to be a Finalist. Get the mojo running into the conference championship round....and at that point anything can happen, with the Mavs at Dirk's side, I'll take it.

fixed.

Melonhead · 07-18-2012, 08:06 PM

Birdman anyone? Nuggets used amnesty so hed be cheap. Always likes his energy off the bench and he was a fan favorite in denver. Child porn accusations were false too. Some lady was blackmailing him.

Kante · 07-18-2012, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Birdman anyone? Nuggets used amnesty so hed be cheap. Always likes his energy off the bench and he was a fan favorite in denver. Child porn accusations were false too. Some lady was blackmailing him.

No thanks. I take Wright over him.

sefant77 · 07-19-2012, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

I could see Marion getting some minutes at the 4, with Kaman/Brand exclusively at the 5. Especially if Crowder starts earning some decent minutes. Wouldn't be surprised to see much VC at the 3, either.

Marion is MUCH better as SF, i expect him as fulltime SF.

With Brand there is no need to play Marion as PF if everyone is healthy.

Simple_Like_That · 07-19-2012, 06:44 PM

Any chance you guys make a trade to get more size in the SG/SF position? Crowder is a rookie you can't count on him...there are to much combo guards out there...

grndmstr_c · 07-19-2012, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Marion is MUCH better as SF, i expect him as fulltime SF.

With Brand there is no need to play Marion as PF if everyone is healthy.

I don't disagree that Shawn's best position at this point in his career is SF (although that wasn't always the case), but still...good luck with that. Rick's too much of a tinkerer for me to think that he's not going to continue to experiment with lineups that have Shawn at PF.

Underdog · 07-19-2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I don't disagree that Shawn's best position at this point in his career is SF (although that wasn't always the case), but still...good luck with that. Rick's too much of a tinkerer for me to think that he's not going to continue to experiment with lineups that have Shawn at PF.

Yeah, that's something I've been thinking about lately - Brand is a badass, but can't back up both Dirk and Kaman at the same time... I'm sure we'll see plenty of different combinations with all these new tools at Carlisle's disposal.

ribosoma · 07-19-2012, 07:50 PM

If Crowder gives the team what I think he can, I wouldn't be surprised to see Shawn get playing time at the 4, with Brand or Kaman at the 5, and Jae at the 3. That would be a pretty good anchor to a defensive lineup.

chumdawg · 07-19-2012, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribosoma

If Crowder gives the team what I think he can, I wouldn't be surprised to see Shawn get playing time at the 4, with Brand or Kaman at the 5, and Jae at the 3. That would be a pretty good anchor to a defensive lineup.

We've got more options than a Barry Switzer wishbone offense!

Robillion · 07-19-2012, 08:11 PM

So.. what's happening with AK47 these days? Is he (Andrei Kirilenko) staying in Europe, with the Jazz, or what? Seems he could be had pretty inexpensively, if he still wanted to play in the NBA that is. Definitely wouldn't mind having him as a backup.

sefant77 · 07-19-2012, 08:23 PM

Decided to stay in Russia on a juicy contract

Simple_Like_That · 07-19-2012, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robillion

So.. what's happening with AK47 these days? Is he (Andrei Kirilenko) staying in Europe, with the Jazz, or what? Seems he could be had pretty inexpensively, if he still wanted to play in the NBA that is. Definitely wouldn't mind having him as a backup.

I mention him before...he would be a good fit for Dallas. I still think you guys should go for an other wing option like CJ Miles or M Webster...

Work a sign and trade with the Jazz D Jones + Beaubois for Miles and filler or pick.

DC/West/Jared
OJ/Carter/Jones
Marion/Miles/Crowder
Brand/Wright/James
Dirk/Kaman

ribosoma · 07-19-2012, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

We've got more options than a Barry Switzer wishbone offense!

And much less guaranteed money.