GDT: Mavs (2-6) at Knicks (3-6) 6:30pm FSSW, MSG - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-15-2016, 12:12 AM

I think Anderson should start over Finey-smith. He doesn't provide instant offense so I'm not sure the purpose of bringing him off the bench.

Budapest Maverick · 11-15-2016, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

and 3rd were looking like a 4-5Th overall pick

I would like to think we looked worse than that. We need to embrace the tank, and do it soon. This team is NOT winning more than 38 games, and that may be very optimistic. We need to tank this season, it was never this obvious.

spreedom · 11-15-2016, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I think Anderson should start over Finey-smith. He doesn't provide instant offense so I'm not sure the purpose of bringing him off the bench.

TBH I think the two play similar roles but DFS is already a more productive player. As every game goes by, I'm getting closer and closer to thinking Simba is bound to be a bust.

Budapest Maverick · 11-15-2016, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

TBH I think the two play similar roles but DFS is already a more productive player. As every game goes by, I'm getting closer and closer to thinking Simba is bound to be a bust.

He is a late first round pick, can he even be a bust? I imagine a high percentage of late first rounders are out of the league within a couple of years.

Underdog · 11-15-2016, 09:59 AM

I don't know why people keep talking about "tanking" the season... Tanking is all about INTENTIONALLY losing. We're losing anyway.

Just keep doing what we're doing, we're well on our way to a lottery pick.

j0Shi · 11-15-2016, 09:59 AM

We're missing three key players, so it's unsurprising that we're lacking depth. Our starting unit wasn't really productive and our bench even less. Quite fitting that Holiday's 16 off the bench for the Knicks is the game's handicap.

j0Shi · 11-15-2016, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I don't know why people keep talking about "tanking" the season... Tanking is all about INTENTIONALLY losing. We're losing anyway.

Just keep doing what we're doing, we're well on our way to a lottery pick.

It's funny that while the FO actually wanted to keep the team around Dirk competitive as long as possible, they might have actually achieved the opposite.

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-15-2016, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

It's funny that while the FO actually wanted to keep the team around Dirk competitive as long as possible, they might have actually achieved the opposite.

To be fair, you also achieve the opposite when Dirk himself can't play due to injuries.

turin · 11-15-2016, 10:26 AM

Am I the only one who thinks Anderson is digressing compared to how he finished the season last year?

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-15-2016, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

Am I the only one who thinks Anderson is digressing compared to how he finished the season last year?

Well he has 0 playmaking skills in a league that basically requires it unless you're excellent in other areas.

We did go on a 6 game winning streak last season when he was inserted into the starting lineup so I use that as at least some evidence that it might work. Not like you'd lose anything by trying it.

Bryan_Wilson · 11-15-2016, 12:09 PM

I think it's hard to evaluate any of the guys at this point. With Dirk and Dwill missing games that's about 25-30 shots worth of offense we are missing. If you throw in Harris it's even higher. Guys like Simba should not be shooting 11-19 shots like he has the last 2 games. Barring a heat check he shouldn't be above 7-8 probably. His value right now is defense and rebounding. Nobody should be surprised he is struggling when he is shooting 30 times in the last 2 games. Same with Seth and even Wes. Seth, barring heat check, shouldn't be shooting 12-17 times. Wes certainly should not be shooting as many as 25 times.

Until Dirk and Dwill come back the shots have to come from somewhere. Barnes and JJ are the only ones who have shown they were capable of a bigger role. All I've seen so far from everyone else is that they are either not ready for an increased role(all the young guys), or they are playing a role larger than what their skillset is capable of(Wes).

EricaLubarsky · 11-15-2016, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I think it's hard to evaluate any of the guys at this point. With Dirk and Dwill missing games that's about 25-30 shots worth of offense we are missing. If you throw in Harris it's even higher. Guys like Simba should not be shooting 11-19 shots like he has the last 2 games. Barring a heat check he shouldn't be above 7-8 probably. His value right now is defense and rebounding. Nobody should be surprised he is struggling when he is shooting 30 times in the last 2 games. Same with Seth and even Wes. Seth, barring heat check, shouldn't be shooting 12-17 times. Wes certainly should not be shooting as many as 25 times.

Until Dirk and Dwill come back the shots have to come from somewhere. Barnes and JJ are the only ones who have shown they were capable of a bigger role. All I've seen so far from everyone else is that they are either not ready for an increased role(all the young guys), or they are playing a role larger than what their skillset is capable of(Wes).

I actually don't think Dirk and Deron have a place on the team. We basically have two identities. Deron and Dirk fit into the old Mavs -- vets who love to slow it down and pound it. The rest of the team is built for speed, aggressiveness, and fullcourt play.

We'll have to see what happens when they both return. They certainly provide an offensive spark (we've seen it from Deron this year-- not from Dirk, but he's Dirk and will eventually start making shots). I just saw them help our offense while destroying our defense. The young team struggles to score but can defend. The old guys can score but can't defend. It'll be interesting to see how Rick squares that circle.

Budapest Maverick · 11-15-2016, 12:34 PM

I don't understand why anybody would be dissapointed about Anderson's play. What exactly did he show during his rookie year? He is a horrific offensive player, who will never be a good shooter. He doesn't have handles, cannot finish in traffic, and is a huge brick layer. He can learn to make the corner three I guess, but at, what, 24, how and why would he become an offensive player suddenly? He is an excellent rebounder and good defender, who doesn't deserve criticism for not being able to provide something that is clearly beyond his skill level.

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-15-2016, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I actually don't think Dirk and Deron have a place on the team. We basically have two identities. Deron and Dirk fit into the old Mavs -- vets who love to slow it down and pound it. The rest of the team is built for speed, aggressiveness, and fullcourt play.

We'll have to see what happens when they both return. They certainly provide an offensive spark (we've seen it from Deron this year-- not from Dirk, but he's Dirk and will eventually start making shots). I just saw them help our offense while destroying our defense. The young team struggles to score but can defend. The old guys can score but can't defend. It'll be interesting to see how Rick squares that circle.

Funny thing is that the youth hasn't really displayed much in the way of speed, aggressiveness, or full court play. I still see the offense often getting bogged down in half court sets with Barea trying to do something or Barnes working on ISO.

Budapest Maverick · 11-15-2016, 12:44 PM

Yeah, we have young players, but they are role players at best, and roster-fodders at worst. You cannot build a system on any of them. As much as it pains me to say, there is no way we are NOT the absolute worst offensive team without Dirk and Deron in the lineup. Small sample size or not, we put up 77 points to what was one of the worst defenses in basketball. I watched all Knicks games (big fan of Porzingis), and their defense is horrific. We couldn't put up 80 on them.

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-15-2016, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Yeah, we have young players, but they are role players at best, and roster-fodders at worst. You cannot build a system on any of them. As much as it pains me to say, there is no way we are NOT the absolute worst offensive team without Dirk and Deron in the lineup. Small sample size or not, we put up 77 points to what was one of the worst defenses in basketball. I watched all Knicks games (big fan of Porzingis), and their defense is horrific. We couldn't put up 80 on them.

So then never healthy Deron and over the hill Dirk were expected to carry this team offensively? That HAS to be the FO purposely tanking if true. I guess reality just hits you in the face when you think about it.

Melonhead · 11-15-2016, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

Am I the only one who thinks Anderson is digressing compared to how he finished the season last year?

He's a spurt guy. Hes about the same as he was last year. But he cannot do what he did at the end of the season consistently as a starter. I honestly wish he'd never shoot unless its within 6 feet of the rim. His shot will never be good, form is too unconventional.

Melonhead · 11-15-2016, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Funny thing is that the youth hasn't really displayed much in the way of speed, aggressiveness, or full court play. I still see the offense often getting bogged down in half court sets with Barea trying to do something or Barnes working on ISO.

This. Yeah we have youth. But youth doesnt translate to a better team. Some of the young guys just arent that skilled and wont be able to carry much collectively. That was painfully obvious last night.

rimrocker · 11-15-2016, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

This. Yeah we have youth. But youth doesnt translate to a better team. Some of the young guys just arent that skilled and wont be able to carry much collectively. That was painfully obvious last night.

We have too many energy scrappy athletic limited-skilled players with little upside on this team and Anderson appears to be one of them. Anderson, DFS, Powell and Acy play with heart but their ceilings seem to be bench players who will need a lot of skilled players around them.

Wouldn't be surprised if Anderson/Powell become the next Crowder/Wright situation. As long as our pick doesn't go with them I could live with them being moved in the right situation.

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-15-2016, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

This. Yeah we have youth. But youth doesnt translate to a better team. Some of the young guys just arent that skilled and wont be able to carry much collectively. That was painfully obvious last night.

Well and you can't blame everything on the players. The offense doesn't look good either. Yes, you have to actually have talent to score, but I'm tired of watching players look uncomfortable in Rick's system. They just look like they don't know what to do outside of Barnes and Barea. Even Barnes looks unsure at times. You can't tell me that a team full of pro basketball players just don't have a clue on offense.

Bryan_Wilson · 11-16-2016, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I actually don't think Dirk and Deron have a place on the team. We basically have two identities. Deron and Dirk fit into the old Mavs -- vets who love to slow it down and pound it. The rest of the team is built for speed, aggressiveness, and fullcourt play.

We'll have to see what happens when they both return. They certainly provide an offensive spark (we've seen it from Deron this year-- not from Dirk, but he's Dirk and will eventually start making shots). I just saw them help our offense while destroying our defense. The young team struggles to score but can defend. The old guys can score but can't defend. It'll be interesting to see how Rick squares that circle.

I think if RC were to keep their minutes down they could have a better role. I just really really doubt RC will do that. Not a knock against him, it's clear that his job, for now, is to win. Maybe that changes after we lose enough games.

Dirk could still play a significant amount of minutes just because our Centers really are not bringing much. Bogut cant really play more than 20-25mins. Powell can roll to the rim but can't finish and can't defend. When he's the 5 teams have zero fear attacking the rim. He's also very underwhelming at rebounding and basically everything really. I had hopes he could be another Wright type player but it's just not happening. Mejri can block shots but he also is not very good at much else. He also has moments where he is a foul machine. So if the other options don't rebound great, and don't provide excellent defense then Dirk may as well play some backup 5 minutes because he's a far better offensive option just from the space he provides.

Dwill on the other hand should not be playing close to the 35mins a game pace he is on in the 5 games he played. That's higher than last year's 32 which is still too high. Dwill needs to be around 22-25mins honestly. Not because he is made of glass or because JJ has been better in his absence. But because to me he is playing at a lower gear to preserve his body for those minutes. Last year, and I'm sure this year, he will flash and show a small glimpse of the guy he used to be and then he will dial it back. If his role is a 35min starter he's going to play a certain way to make sure he can be on the floor for 35mins and as many games as he can. If we made his role a 22-25min 6th man role, where he can have a green light to do whatever he wanted in his limited minutes I think he could play with some more aggressiveness simply because he won't need to pace himself. He's still going to get injured and who knows maybe I'm totally wrong and he plays the exact same way. Either way the way he is playing he should not be a 35min starter.

Budapest Maverick · 11-16-2016, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So then never healthy Deron and over the hill Dirk were expected to carry this team offensively? That HAS to be the FO purposely tanking if true. I guess reality just hits you in the face when you think about it.

They probably thought Dirk would still be valuable as a presence, give spacing to the team, and this may very well still happen, but without him, there is obviously nothing to go on. Right now, the only player you even consider doubling is Barnes, but you probably just leave him go one on one. I mean he is playing excellent basketball, but he is not going to put up 40 or 50, and kill you single handedly. Imagine what would happen if he has a bad game or two, and Jose comes back down to earth as well? Would we even score 60 in a game like that?

EricaLubarsky · 11-16-2016, 01:00 PM

GDT? I've got a terrible W/L, but maybe that's a good thing if we're team tank. Anyone object to me starting the GDT?

Underdog · 11-16-2016, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

GDT? I've got a terrible W/L, but maybe that's a good thing if we're team tank. Anyone object to me starting the GDT?

I like Bryan's "losing streak" idea this season... Doesn't seem to matter either way these days.