Josh and Stack for Carter, Dooling and Najera? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

monty55555 · 02-13-2009, 02:03 AM

Quote:

PHOENIX – The New Jersey Nets and Dallas Mavericks have discussed a trade that would reunite Vince Carter and Jason Kidd, with Carter joining the Mavericks, a league source familiar with the discussions said Thursday night.

The proposed deal, which isn’t imminent, would send Carter, Keyon Dooling and Eduardo Najera to the Mavericks for Josh Howard and Jerry Stackhouse.

Nets executives are still reluctant to trade Carter, but are determined to let teams make their best offers all the way to next Thursday’s trade deadline.

The Mavericks have lost guard Jason Terry to a broken hand and desperately need perimeter scoring to stay a contender in the Western Conference. The Nets’ and Mavericks’ front offices engineered the Jason Kidd-Devin Harris blockbuster at the trade deadline a year ago. Nets GM Kiki Vandeweghe and Mavs GM Donnie Nelson have been active trading proposals, league sources say.

Carter, 31, has inspired significant interest throughout the league. The San Antonio Spurs are pursuing him and have discussed a proposal that would include Roger Mason, Bruce Bowen and Fabricio Oberto. While the Spurs also have interest in Detroit’s Rasheed Wallace, a Pistons source says the teams have not had any conversations.

For the Nets, the motivation to move Carter is mostly financial. The franchise is losing tens of millions of dollars a year and moving Carter would clear more cap space for 2010. Nevertheless, Nets president Rod Thorn wants to make the playoffs and believes he has his best chance with Carter on the roster. Carter is in the second season of a five-year extension that pays him close to $80 million through 2012. Only a fraction of the contract’s final season is guaranteed.

Carter is having a good season, averaging 21 points, five rebounds and five assists. The Nets are 24-29 and one game out of the final playoff spot in the Eastern Conference.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wir...ade_with_nets/

Underdog · 02-13-2009, 02:10 AM

Carter - better than Josh (if Kidd thinks so...)

Dooling - better than JJB (if he can be consistent - 44% 3pt shooter...)

Najera - good for 6 fouls (I got nothin'...)

TheMaverick · 02-13-2009, 02:22 AM

That would be a coup for Dallas, owning New Jersey again.

alby · 02-13-2009, 02:52 AM

On Josh's best day, let's say he is equal to Vince Carter so take them out of the equation.

Jerry Stackhouse doesn't even f'ing play, Kenyon Dooling has been a great back up PG for the Nets this year and Viva Najera has developed a three point shot and still has great defensive basketball IQ. Plus, his return would be a nice little tidbit for the fans in Dallas that didn't want him to leave way back when.

So you are losing one player in your top 10, while receiving 3 players in your top 10.

BGMaverick9 · 02-13-2009, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

On Josh's best day, let's say he is equal to Vince Carter so take them out of the equation.

Jerry Stackhouse doesn't even f'ing play, Kenyon Dooling has been a great back up PG for the Nets this year and Viva Najera has developed a three point shot and still has great defensive basketball IQ. Plus, his return would be a nice little tidbit for the fans in Dallas that didn't want him to leave way back when.

So you are losing one player in your top 10, while receiving 3 players in your top 10.

That's been my point with Stack, the dude hasn't done jack and he's going to be touch and go (at best) from here on out.

If Dooling is as you mentioned in terms of the PG, I'll take it. I can't trust JJB as my backup PG, it's too tough of a sell for me right now.

Najera is fodder in the deal or you've got another reason you can trade Bass away. I don't know how you can trade him on his own unless you're getting a one-dimensional kind of player who is cheap.

If Vince and Kidd are on the up and up and this "drama" stuff is just BS, and Cuban is up for making a deal that goes past '10...I can see it helping.

alby · 02-13-2009, 03:08 AM

Vince would be the legitimate #2 option we've been clamoring for since Michael Finley got old.

Also, we would have a guy that receives superstar treatment from the refs... I can not tell you how important that is.

grndmstr_c · 02-13-2009, 03:10 AM

If Vince's head is in the game he's about as close as you can hope to get to the Pierce/Kobe level, and I don't think he's that far off. He's a pretty brilliant playmaker - more capable of carrying the scoring load than Josh, and in a completely different world as a passer. I've no doubt this trade would improve the team. The catch is, with VC's contract and both Josh and Stack going out you've made all the impact moves you're going to be able to make for a while, so the question isn't whether it improves the team so much as whether it lifts them up to the LA/Boston/Cleveland level. I think it could, but it's not a given.

Windmill360 · 02-13-2009, 03:12 AM

EDUARDO!!!!

Do it.

Dooling is a great back up.

Edit #3:

Let's Get Killer Van Horn back in dis shat too.

alby · 02-13-2009, 03:25 AM

Vince Carter in 2008/2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkiyrFw11q8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8c2bucPQL8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnmeXN2Ala4

He still has a lot of lift in those legs. It's not like he's Tracy McGrady, faking knee injuries after getting blocked by the rim on a dunk attempt.

Tracy McGrady in 2008/2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ4DN6bSxyM

mac222b · 02-13-2009, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

If Vince's head is in the game he's about as close as you can hope to get to the Pierce/Kobe level, and I don't think he's that far off. He's a pretty brilliant playmaker - more capable of carrying the scoring load than Josh, and in a completely different world as a passer. I've no doubt this trade would improve the team. The catch is, with VC's contract and both Josh and Stack going out you've made all the impact moves you're going to be able to make for a while, so the question isn't whether it improves the team so much as whether it lifts them up to the LA/Boston/Cleveland level. I think it could, but it's not a given.

It does leave us w/out almost any tradeable assets until maybe next season when Damp becomes desirable. But then we would need a center in return for Damp. Could get tricky. Dooling is a good defender and could guard quicker pg's playing next to Kidd. I wonder if anyone out there prefers this deal to the Shaq/Barnes possibility? Davis/Kaman? Time for a poll? It's good to know there seem to be options out there for us. So glad we overpaid Stack a few years back...

dayman · 02-13-2009, 05:39 AM

Much rather do the shaq/barnes deal but watching the youtube clips sure makes this deal look ALOT sweeter. Who would be our starting 3 if carter plays the 2

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 02-13-2009, 07:53 AM

Marc Stein with a big update, Mavs don't want to include Josh.

Quote:

There have been media reports all week indicating that the Mavs are chasing New Jersey's Vince Carter, but club sources have stressed repeatedly that they have no intention of including Josh Howard in such a deal, likely ruling out any notion of a Carter-Jason Kidd reunion.

One team source said Thursday that the Nets would have to include rookie center Brook Lopez to change that stance, which obviously isn't happening.)

An on an unrelated note that was part of Stein's update, Felton.

Quote:

NBA front-office sources said that longtime Mavs target Raymond Felton -- whom Dallas nearly acquired last month in a three-way deal with Charlotte and Oklahoma City that ultimately collapsed -- is far more likely to stay with the Bobcats than go in the season's final seven days of trading.

TNT · 02-13-2009, 08:42 AM

damn, cuban is a fool..

MX425 · 02-13-2009, 09:02 AM

I don't think he is a fool. If these teams are hurting then make them give you what you want. No other teams have pulled the trigger on anything either. IF these teams are hurting make them sweat it and give you a deal.

A lot of these teams need to make a deal or else they will pay luxury tax and most owners are saying to cut payroll, they have to deal. If we don't make a deal we make the playoffs and see what we can get in the offseason. Let's not forget whose backs are against the wall, it ain't us. yet.

Underdog · 02-13-2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MX425

I don't think he is a fool. If these teams are hurting then make them give you what you want. No other teams have pulled the trigger on anything either. IF these teams are hurting make them sweat it and give you a deal.

A lot of these teams need to make a deal or else they will pay luxury tax and most owners are saying to cut payroll, they have to deal. If we don't make a deal we make the playoffs and see what we can get in the offseason. Let's not forget whose backs are against the wall, it ain't us. yet.

Totally agree - I'd rather make no trades than a bad trade...

(at least we survive to trade another day, so to speak...)

Dirkenstien · 02-13-2009, 09:14 AM

Yeah I'm not on board if we're including Howard in the deal. Don't make a trade just to make a trade, especially one that could ruin our 2010 chances.

jthig32 · 02-13-2009, 09:17 AM

I wouldn't be upset if that trade went through, but as _c pointed out, if you make this move, this is it for the next few years. You better be dang sure that Kidd is on board (and will re-sign next season and beyond).

The play of Antoin Wright has me more convinced than ever that this team would improve by trading Josh for a more accomplished offensive wing like Vince.

MX425 · 02-13-2009, 09:24 AM

If Lopez comes with the deal, then include Josh. If not, NEXT.

kg_veteran · 02-13-2009, 10:17 AM

I'm not in favor of this deal. It's just not enough to make a difference.

dalger · 02-13-2009, 10:44 AM

I wouldn't be excited about a Josh/Stack for Carter deal either. We pretty much wouldn't be able to do anything else other than using Damp's contract next February. On top of that we'd have two shooting guards in JET and Carter with long and expensive contracts and would still have Bass on the team who might be a useful addition to Stack's contract if something were to happen over the next couple of days.

I would just think that trading Stack/Bass and Josh in single trades might get you more than this one. Not to mention that the Howard/Stack for Shaq/Barnes deal sounds better to me.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-13-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I'm not in favor of this deal. It's just not enough to make a difference.

LOL, look at your signature...

BGMaverick9 · 02-13-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I wouldn't be upset if that trade went through, but as _c pointed out, if you make this move, this is it for the next few years. You better be dang sure that Kidd is on board (and will re-sign next season and beyond).

The play of Antoin Wright has me more convinced than ever that this team would improve by trading Josh for a more accomplished offensive wing like Vince.

To me it sounds like they're sticking with the 2010 plan unless it's a no-brainer deal. I'm guessing VC the player might sound like that fits the bill but the contract is TOO heavy for the liking. He'll skip the plan if the contract is good enough, but that isn't it.

Windmill360 · 02-13-2009, 11:25 AM

watch the spurs pull some sweet trade out of their ass and land VC.

kg_veteran · 02-13-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

LOL, look at your signature...

I know. If I'm against this trade, you know it must be bad.

darkwitzki · 02-13-2009, 11:51 AM

Josh will be reunited with good buddy Devin. Vince will be reunited with alley up buddy Kidd. Najera will add toughness we don't have, Dooling will at least play instead of Stack. I don't know if this will instantly make us contenders this season.

quietsavant · 02-13-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windmill360

watch the spurs pull some sweet trade out of their ass and land VC.

Oh yeah, We are going to stand pat, trying to play hard ball and watch the Spurs pull a roger mason, Oberto, and brucy B for him. Giving yet another elite status team in the west.

Zki41 · 02-13-2009, 12:01 PM

2010 isn't even a guaranteed thing, but neither is trading for Carter. You just have to pick if you want to try to win while Dirk is in his prime, or just wait till 2010 and rebuild most likely without the majority of the core we have enjoyed the past few seasons. I'd rather try to risk it all now with Dirk, and then miss 2010 and rebuild later, than waste the rest of Dirk's prime rebuilding.

TheMaverick · 02-13-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

Vince Carter in 2008/2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkiyrFw11q8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8c2bucPQL8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnmeXN2Ala4

He still has a lot of lift in those legs. It's not like he's Tracy McGrady, faking knee injuries after getting blocked by the rim on a dunk attempt.

Tracy McGrady in 2008/2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ4DN6bSxyM

Nice find. When was the last time we saw Josh Howard take it to the rim with that kind of authority? How about never. In fact, the other part of the deal, Jerry Stackhouse, was the only guy in a Mavs uni that used to do that kind of stuff. Getting to the free throw line and putting defensive pressure on your opponent is so important. We have one of the sweetest shooters to ever play the game in Dirk, but we need a Robin that can do the things Dirk doesn't. Josh Howard is not that man.

Also, that T-Mac video gets me everytime lol.

No matter how bad it may get here, at least we're not the Houston freakin' Rockets. The best team on paper year in and year out, but once the season starts? Pathetic.

darkwitzki · 02-13-2009, 12:14 PM

I'm sure there are more other tasty offers out there, Cubes mentioned he's looking for a "Gasol" type of bargain, let's see if he can pull off a surprise for us.

Underdog · 02-13-2009, 12:16 PM

About 2010 - why do people assume that the only great players available will be LeBron, Wade and Bosh???

Has anyone considered the big contracts that will have be to cleared by other teams to make room for those guys? I'm pretty sure some unexpected names will surface in trade rumors over the next year or so - hopefully we're lucky enough to snag a couple of them (the closer we get to those big trades, the more desperate certain teams will get to make them happen...)

I'd rather waste this season by standing pat than waste the next 2-3 seasons with a bad trade...

(but I like to have my cake & eat it too - bring Shaq to Dallas!)

FreshJive · 02-13-2009, 12:46 PM

So if you're going to do this why not do the Baron/ Kaman thing also?

Zki41 · 02-13-2009, 12:49 PM

It's better to have Kidd/Shaq/Carter than Baron/Kaman/Josh

bernardos70 · 02-13-2009, 12:52 PM

The real deal here like MX says is to make the Nets sweat. They're likely to budge. Just imagine if we pull this off without involving Josh...

Underdog · 02-13-2009, 12:56 PM

For some reason Vince Carter and Baron Davis feel like smokescreen trade rumors to me (unless Cuban is talking out of his ass, which wouldn't surprise me either...)

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-13-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

The real deal here like MX says is to make the Nets sweat. They're likely to budge. Just imagine if we pull this off without involving Josh...

The only problem with this is that San Antonio (rumored) has a package for Carter as well.

Cuban might be forced to do this just so SA doesn't get him. If they get Carter, ugh.

Windmill360 · 02-13-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

The real deal here like MX says is to make the Nets sweat. They're likely to budge. Just imagine if we pull this off without involving Josh...

Or if we manage to get Lopez.

jthig32 · 02-13-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windmill360

Or if we manage to get Lopez.

That is really, really not happening.

Windmill360 · 02-13-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

That is really, really not happening.

Yea i know.

quietsavant · 02-13-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

About 2010 - why do people assume that the only great players available will be LeBron, Wade and Bosh???

Has anyone considered the big contracts that will have be to cleared by other teams to make room for those guys? I'm pretty sure some unexpected names will surface in trade rumors over the next year or so - hopefully we're lucky enough to snag a couple of them (the closer we get to those big trades, the more desperate certain teams will get to make them happen...)

I'd rather waste this season by standing pat than waste the next 2-3 seasons with a bad trade...

(but I like to have my cake & eat it too - bring Shaq to Dallas!)

I Personally am hoping for Joe Johnson. Beast!! If we can have him at the 2? 2010 will have been wort it for me

Underdog · 02-13-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

I Personally am hoping for Joe Johnson. Beast!! If we can have him at the 2? 2010 will have been wort it for me

Now your talking - he's a LOT more attainable than LeBron/Wade/Bosh and would be one of those players who could put us over the top...

Cuban said he was going to be "creative" concerning 2010 - Joe Johnson fits that mindset...