Frustrated Carlisle threatens Mavs players with suspensions - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dirt_dobber · 12-31-2012, 02:14 PM

Frustrated Carlisle threatens Mavs players with suspensions
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...h-suspensions/

Dallas has lost six in a row and nine of their last 10 now. It hasn’t been pretty, especially the two losses to the Spurs where Dallas was barely even a threat.

Coach Rick Carlisle is frustrated — frustrated with the effort level of his team. Frustrated with the professionalism. And he threatened his players with suspension after Sunday’s loss, reports the Dallas Morning News.

“The last week, I’ve had to literally scream in the face of two guys in practices and shootarounds to get the point across. And I will continue to do that. If I have to start suspending guys for not doing things they’re supposed to be doing on the court, I’ll do it. And Mark (Cuban) and I will get into it about that. But somehow, things have got to change and it can’t just be about that it’s a tough schedule. It just can’t.”

If Carlisle wants to get into it with Cuban, they should first acknowledge that Cuban ordered a roster built that allows him to go after free agents next summer but in getting guys willing to take one-year deals — Chris Kaman, Elton Brand, Dahntay Jones — or with that much left on their contract (Darren Collison) that there was a drop in talent level.

The other part of this fall in Big D is O.J. Mayo could not sustain his hot start when he carried this team. For his first 20 games Mayo was scoring 20 points a game and shooting better than 45 percent from three and 47 percent overall. But in his last 10 games Mayo is scoring 13.2 points a game on 38.5 percent shooting and 24.4 percent from three.

Dirk Nowitzki isn’t in shape yet to carry the team coming off knee surgery.

But Carlisle is not wrong here, either — the effort from Dallas has been lacking, particularly on defense. They are playing some good teams lately but just rolling over for them, especially when they get behind.

Carlisle isn’t going to be suspending guys, but he can just take away minutes from guys who are not producing. The problem is he doesn’t have a lot of good players to give those minutes to.

SMC0007 · 12-31-2012, 02:32 PM

Get 'em coach.

Maybe that tells us a little bit about why Wright isn't playing as much as we'd like.

I'd love to know who he is yelling in the face of and why. He's yelled at Kaman and Collison a few times in the last 7 or 8 games during timeouts, that he called specifically because they blew it.

Imo, Carter needs to be talked to about the amount of time he spends sagging down too far to help and gets bombed on from outside.

dirt_dobber · 12-31-2012, 03:16 PM

A better (more complete) story about this - including Dirk's thoughts about it.....

By: Jan Hubbard http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/...astic-measures

DALLAS -- After another blowout loss, Mavericks coach Rick Carlisle said he is prepared to use drastic measures to force improvement on what he feels is an underachieving team.

"The last week, I've had to literally scream in the face of two guys in practices and shootarounds to get the point across and I will do that," Carlisle said after Sunday's 111-86 loss to the San Antonio Spurs. "And I will continue to do that. If I have to start suspending guys for not doing things they're supposed to be doing on the court, I'll do it. And Mark [Cuban] and I will get into it about that. But somehow, things have got to change and it can't just be about that it's a tough schedule. It just can't."

For Carlisle, the Mavericks are a perplexing team. Even though they have nine new players on the roster, Carlisle said the Mavs' talent is good enough to compete with the better teams in the league.

"I've said it repeatedly that I like the roster," said Carlisle, who rejected all excuses after the team's sixth consecutive loss. "We're over 30 games into the season. We're not that new. We got to fix it."

The maddening part of the Mavericks' performance for Carlisle -- and probably for fans, too -- is that the team has had its moments. During a 15-minute period that started midway through the first quarter, the Mavericks outscored the Spurs 35-24.

The problem was that stretch began with the Mavericks trailing 20-6.

"It's a 48-minute game, so we've got to be better early, we've got to be better late," Carlisle said. "I don't want to get into a dialogue on the parts of the game that were OK. It's not what this organization has been about since Mark bought the team. This is a stretch that is unprecedented, really. It's bad. We've got to fix it and it starts with me. I'm taking the blame for it."

Carlisle's level of irritation was a surprise to Dirk Nowitzki, who played his fourth game since returning from knee surgery.

"That's a little aggressive," Nowitzki said. "I never heard anything like that. But it starts with the players. We need to compete at all times. And I said it numerous times, we're not as talented as the top teams are. That's pretty obvious. So we really have to make up for it by playing harder, by scrambling on defense, rebounding and five guys being in there scrambling, boxing out, getting the ball. If we take the ball out of the net every time down we're going to have trouble.

"I'm not sure if that helps if [you start] suspending people left and right."

Although Nowitzki was only 3-of-9 from the field with eight points and five rebounds, he said he was making progress physically.

"I felt 10 times better even though I had nothing to show for it," he said, "but just the way I was moving. Today I had a lot more pep in my step. I was really moving even though my shot wasn't really going, but I felt I had more spring in my lift. So that's a good thing."

The Spurs scored the first two points of the game and never trailed. Even when the Mavericks made runs, the Spurs never flinched. They moved the ball crisply and had numerous open shots -- and they hit most of them. They shot 50.6 percent from the field for the night.

They were led by their Big Three. Tony Parker had 21 points, Manu Ginobili had 20 and Tim Duncan had 18 and added 10 rebounds.

Darren Collison had 18 points to lead Dallas while Elton Brand chipped in 14.

Again, the Mavericks had some stretches of strong play. But a good play here and there was not enough for Carlisle, who undoubtedly is not pleased with the Mavericks' 5-10 December record. That is the worst month in the Cuban era -- and the worst since they were 4-10 in December 1999.

"Right now, you'd have to question everything," Carlisle said. "I'll just leave it at that. And again, I'm still going to stay on record saying I believe in the group. But we've all got to do better. And it starts with me."

Jan Hubbard is a contributor for ESPNDallas.com.

Dirk's Knee · 12-31-2012, 04:19 PM

Empty threat, can't suspend players for poor performance. However, you can absolutely bench them. The problem is, who gets the minutes? It's not like this is a terribly deep roster. The offense needs to stop running through Kamen. In fact, I'd be happier seeing James get minutes when Dirk's on the floor to provide some defense in the middle. Every possession the ball needs to touch Dirk's and Mayo's hands and both of them need to step up. Nowitski's slow start is understood but Mayo needs to shoot his way out of his slump.

Ninkobei · 12-31-2012, 04:30 PM

Poor Carlisle. Maybe Dallas can trade for Tyson Chandler next year.

Melonhead · 12-31-2012, 04:57 PM

At least dirk said it. And Cuban needs to listen. The talent on this team doesn't match up with the best. Stop lying to us Cuban. I wish abc would cancel shark tank.

SMC0007 · 12-31-2012, 06:07 PM

The incessant whining about the roster and "F Cuban" this and that is petulant. Why go on and on and on at this point? I understand the frustration, most of us were frustrated as hell with the roster when it happened especially Tyson leaving. But unless he makes a trade, which is debatable that there is one that could put the wheels back on, what's to gain from beating this dead horse? IF Cuban didn't care about winning, why would he be on the sideline every night watching this f'ing mess? Stop being such dumbasses! There are a few of you who continually go overboard blaming this and that, You know who you are. FRustration about this is one thing but flaming Cuban as if his plan of sabotaging the Organization is coming to fruition is what makes you ...special.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-31-2012, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

The incessant whining about the roster and "F Cuban" this and that is petulant. Why go on and on and on at this point? I understand the frustration, most of us were frustrated as hell with the roster when it happened especially Tyson leaving. But unless he makes a trade, which is debatable that there is one that could put the wheels back on, what's to gain from beating this dead horse? IF Cuban didn't care about winning, why would he be on the sideline every night watching this f'ing mess? Stop being such dumbasses! There are a few of you who continually go overboard blaming this and that, You know who you are. FRustration about this is one thing but flaming Cuban as if his plan of sabotaging the Organization is coming to fruition is what makes you ...special.

And there few guarantees in life...especially the NBA. I personally believe the end of an era was coming regardless and that such an end is tough to deal with. Cuban saw this coming and decided he didn't want to be stuck with unreasonable payroll in the process. And he still at least tried to get Dwill and Dwight. No reason to hate on him for that. The guy has given his all for a decade and has earned the right to reel things in a bit.

markus1234 · 12-31-2012, 07:19 PM

I'm feeling quite comfortable in Rick's, Marion's and Dirk's "frustrated" company...

Of course they don't say "f* Cuban". But if look at their faces and read between the lines,....

Quote:

“I don’t need to overstate his importance. We’ll do everything possible to make that happen,” coach Rick Carlisle said. “Tyson Chandler changed our season on a lot of levels. It wasn’t just his play, it was his enthusiasm, his energy.

“He just brought a certain exuberance to our locker room, and he got other guys on board with keeping each other accountable.”

Quote:

“These guys will always be Mavericks royalty to me,’’ Carlisle said after Friday’s shoot around at Madison Square Garden. “I’ve got a high level of respect for Kidd and Chandler -- and always will.’’

...and here is Cuban's approach. Read it and compare it...

http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/2012/...hear-him.html/

http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/2012/...eparture.html/

...

Melonhead · 12-31-2012, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

The incessant whining about the roster and "F Cuban" this and that is petulant. Why go on and on and on at this point? I understand the frustration, most of us were frustrated as hell with the roster when it happened especially Tyson leaving. But unless he makes a trade, which is debatable that there is one that could put the wheels back on, what's to gain from beating this dead horse? IF Cuban didn't care about winning, why would he be on the sideline every night watching this f'ing mess? Stop being such dumbasses! There are a few of you who continually go overboard blaming this and that, You know who you are. FRustration about this is one thing but flaming Cuban as if his plan of sabotaging the Organization is coming to fruition is what makes you ...special.

For me its not so much as F Cuban, I feel like he's wasting the twilight years of dirks career and its just a crappy way for the legend to go out because Cuban thinks he's smarter than the entire league with the ol dry powder method. And refuses to see how far the mavs have fallen in the last couple years.

Melonhead · 12-31-2012, 08:50 PM

He said something very telling on reddit in regards to his business investments and profiting. Along the lines of capitalizing on people who make stupid decisions/mistakes.

And I think that's what he's waiting on when the luxury tax kicks in for teams over the cap. Problem is the NBA is different and is a win now league. And dirk is on his way out which isn't fair to him considering his loyalty to Cuban. But that's just me and I could be incredibly off base in my assumptions.

dude1394 · 01-01-2013, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

I'm feeling quite comfortable in Rick's, Marion's and Dirk's "frustrated" company...

Of course they don't say "f* Cuban". But if look at their faces and read between the lines,....

...and here is Cuban's approach. Read it and compare it...

http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/2012/...hear-him.html/

http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/2012/...eparture.html/

...

I'm with Carlisle.

Budapest Maverick · 01-01-2013, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

Poor Carlisle. Maybe Dallas can trade for Tyson Chandler next year.

Enough with this crap for once and for all. We were virtually the same team with Tyson on the floor, then without him. The point differential was like 0,9. Without Dirk, our championship team was like 5 points worse per 100 possession? Also, the Knicks last year played better defense without Chandler on the floor, not sure about this year stats.

Another interesting tidbit, Dirk, pairing up with Damp, got virtually the same offensive, and defensive rating from 2004 till 2006, than Dirk paired up with Chandler. Summed: Tyson is a massively overrated player, and defender, and Dirk is a top 15 player of all-time. Dirk made Tyson, not the other way around, and our championship defense came from team defense, and the brain was Carlisle behind it. Not Tyson Chandler.

EricaLubarsky · 01-01-2013, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Enough with this crap for once and for all. We were virtually the same team with Tyson on the floor, then without him. The point differential was like 0,9. Without Dirk, our championship team was like 5 points worse per 100 possession? Also, the Knicks last year played better defense without Chandler on the floor, not sure about this year stats.

Another interesting tidbit, Dirk, pairing up with Damp, got virtually the same offensive, and defensive rating from 2004 till 2006, than Dirk paired up with Chandler. Summed: Tyson is a massively overrated player, and defender, and Dirk is a top 15 player of all-time. Dirk made Tyson, not the other way around, and our championship defense came from team defense, and the brain was Carlisle behind it. Not Tyson Chandler.

They play better D without him this year, too at a rate of allowing 5.7pp100 more.

redzwestisbest · 01-01-2013, 11:40 AM

Maybe Delonte West would have helped with the effort level... and the players showing lack of professionalism..hmm...maybe Delonte was not the culprit after all. dumb ass GM and coach.

oilfieldtrash · 01-01-2013, 11:55 AM

Im just glad we have used our dry powder on players like Collison, Brand, and Kaman. No way in hell would Chandler been worth what they are currently paying to Kaman and Collison.

Bayliss · 01-01-2013, 12:27 PM

Cunningham was called up from the D-League. So whomever Carlisle was pissed about and threatening suspension... it may have been on of the guards.

EricaLubarsky · 01-01-2013, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redzwestisbest

Maybe Delonte West would have helped with the effort level... and the players showing lack of professionalism..hmm...maybe Delonte was not the culprit after all. dumb ass GM and coach.

Yes, because his drive and motivation are what got him kicked off the team.

What team is he on now?

EricaLubarsky · 01-01-2013, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Im just glad we have used our dry powder on players like Collison, Brand, and Kaman. No way in hell would Chandler been worth what they are currently paying to Kaman and Collison.

Wow, you are seriously deluded and living in the past.

Kante · 01-01-2013, 12:52 PM

oilfieldtrash making a case for the worst poster around here...

Dan1 · 01-01-2013, 01:18 PM

There you go Rick, finally taking an attitude. I wouldnt mind benching some players, some of them really deserve it as of lately. I think you have your own contribuition as a part of this failure, but some guys rly need to wake up and stop playing like we're the bobcats. I think we're obviously not a top team but we're seriously not as bad as it looks.

nowhereman · 01-01-2013, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Enough with this crap for once and for all. We were virtually the same team with Tyson on the floor, then without him. The point differential was like 0,9. Without Dirk, our championship team was like 5 points worse per 100 possession? Also, the Knicks last year played better defense without Chandler on the floor, not sure about this year stats.

Another interesting tidbit, Dirk, pairing up with Damp, got virtually the same offensive, and defensive rating from 2004 till 2006, than Dirk paired up with Chandler. Summed: Tyson is a massively overrated player, and defender, and Dirk is a top 15 player of all-time. Dirk made Tyson, not the other way around, and our championship defense came from team defense, and the brain was Carlisle behind it. Not Tyson Chandler.

dude1394 · 01-01-2013, 04:30 PM

Yea..we are a lot better defensively without him, that's for sure. Have been for two years now.

Box score coaching at its finest.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-01-2013, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Yea..we are a lot better defensively without him, that's for sure. Have been for two years now.

Box score coaching at its finest.

Last season the defense really didn't take much of a hit.

This season is different...

spreedom · 01-01-2013, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redzwestisbest

Maybe Delonte West would have helped with the effort level... and the players showing lack of professionalism..hmm...maybe Delonte was not the culprit after all. dumb ass GM and coach.

Yeah, because Carlisle isn't one of the very best coaches in the NBA or anything.

some1nw · 01-01-2013, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redzwestisbest

Maybe Delonte West would have helped with the effort level... and the players showing lack of professionalism..hmm...maybe Delonte was not the culprit after all. dumb ass GM and coach.

oh yes definitely definitely. RC is dumb as fuck, and so is Cuban.

Budapest Maverick · 01-01-2013, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Yea..we are a lot better defensively without him, that's for sure. Have been for two years now.

Box score coaching at its finest.

That's not box score stuff, in fact it is actually the complete opposite. You can look it up, Chandler is historically average when it comes to advanced stats, which clearly shows he's an overrated defender.

Just compare his impact stats with Duncan, or Garnett, it's night and day. I'm not even saying that Chandler wouldn't be a good choice for us, he would be. He's a borderline top 10 center in the league, a very good player, an elite defensive player, he is not.

Mavericks DRtg with Chandler in 2011: 103.2, DRtg without him in 2012: 100.5

Again, that's not box score stuff. That's actually the exact opposite. Same with the Knicks last year, and this year. Teams are playing better, or around the same defense without the guy on the floor consistently. While Garnett for example makes the Celtics defense 1st when he's on the floor, and if i'm not mistaken they are 30th when he's not playing. Chandler is clearly not that kind of player defensively (obviously overall the gap is even larger), but some you guys make him out to be, and frankly it's quite tiring.

dude1394 · 01-01-2013, 06:27 PM

Yea chandler is a scrub, box score says so.. That's why cubes offered him 20million and he's got a 14million contract now. Stupid NBA owners.

Budapest Maverick · 01-01-2013, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Yea chandler is a scrub, box score says so.. That's why cubes offered him 20million and he's got a 14million contract now. Stupid NBA owners.

That's a funny argument from you, when earlier you said numerous times it wasn't even a real offer, and a clear disrespect for Tyson. Which one is it then?

dude1394 · 01-01-2013, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

That's a funny argument from you, when earlier you said numerous times it wasn't even a real offer, and a clear disrespect for Tyson. Which one is it then?

It was a joke of an offer because no basketball player in their right mind would take it and cubes knew it. But it was still a 20million/year offer, hardly the scrub you are painting him as.

Budapest Maverick · 01-01-2013, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

It was a joke of an offer because no basketball player in their right mind would take it and cubes knew it. But it was still a 20million/year offer, hardly the scrub you are painting him as.

I never said he was a scrub. He's an above average center, probably second tier in the NBA. A good defender, though far from elite, because of his below average post defense. He's an almost elite help defender, not quite like Garnett, or Rodman, etc, etc, but a very, very good one. His impact is not there because of his post defense, i'm sure of that. He's useful offensively as well, he finishes strong, and always a threat for the lob.

I would love to have him as our starting center, Kaman is probably the worst defensive center in the league, and clearly a net negative. I never said i hated having Tyson, what i hate, is the fact that you, and some other posters made it out like he was a difference maker between a championship squad, and a first round loser, or a lottery team, and if only we would have him, it would all be different now.

In reality, Chandler is not that guy, and his whole career impact numbers show that, there is plenty of evidence, and there is none, that he was the one reason that finally made us winners. No. It was Dirk first and foremost, and his absolutely ridiculous, historic run, up until the finals where he was sick, and injured, and his numbers somehow plummeted because of that.

That year, Dirk could have won with a lot of centers, as he almost won with Damp in 2006. In order of importence imo, it went something like this. 1. Dirk. 2. Team defense 3. Carlisle and the smart use of zone 4. Kidd and Chandler. Tyson surely helped, and i will be forever grateful for him, but again, he was not the biggest difference, and letting him go while might have been a mistake, chances are, it was not a huge mistake, and we wouldn't be much better right now with him.

Even if you disregard everything i said, there is still the one aspect with Tyson, is that he was never consistently healthy, and on top of that, was kind of considered a contract year player. So there was that, too. Again, i like the guy, i just not agree with the notion that he was an all-world, all-defense kind of guy, and there is plenty of statistical evidence that shows exactly that. Not box score stuff, but advanced stats, you know, something that our team actually uses a lot.

adonis · 01-01-2013, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Yeah, because Carlisle isn't one of the very best coaches in the NBA or anything.

He's an average coach.

Kante · 01-01-2013, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adonis

He's an average coach.

Ninkobei · 01-01-2013, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

I would love to have him as our starting center, Kaman is probably the worst defensive center in the league, and clearly a net negative. I never said i hated having Tyson, what i hate, is the fact that you, and some other posters made it out like he was a difference maker between a championship squad, and a first round loser, or a lottery team, and if only we would have him, it would all be different now.

In reality, Chandler is not that guy, and his whole career impact numbers show that, there is plenty of evidence, and there is none, that he was the one reason that finally made us winners. No. It was Dirk first and foremost, and his absolutely ridiculous, historic run, up until the finals where he was sick, and injured, and his numbers somehow plummeted because of that.

Anyway, this argument has been done to death. I think you underestimate the value of a double double center. And please don't compare anyone to Dumpier, he was awful.

SMC0007 · 01-02-2013, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Enough with this crap for once and for all. We were virtually the same team with Tyson on the floor, then without him. The point differential was like 0,9. Without Dirk, our championship team was like 5 points worse per 100 possession? Also, the Knicks last year played better defense without Chandler on the floor, not sure about this year stats.

Another interesting tidbit, Dirk, pairing up with Damp, got virtually the same offensive, and defensive rating from 2004 till 2006, than Dirk paired up with Chandler. Summed: Tyson is a massively overrated player, and defender, and Dirk is a top 15 player of all-time. Dirk made Tyson, not the other way around, and our championship defense came from team defense, and the brain was Carlisle behind it. Not Tyson Chandler.

fodder, this post.

dude1394 · 01-02-2013, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

I never said he was a scrub. He's an above average center, probably second tier in the NBA. A good defender, though far from elite, because of his below average post defense. He's an almost elite help defender, not quite like Garnett, or Rodman, etc, etc, but a very, very good one. His impact is not there because of his post defense, i'm sure of that. He's useful offensively as well, he finishes strong, and always a threat for the lob.

I would love to have him as our starting center, Kaman is probably the worst defensive center in the league, and clearly a net negative. I never said i hated having Tyson, what i hate, is the fact that you, and some other posters made it out like he was a difference maker between a championship squad, and a first round loser, or a lottery team, and if only we would have him, it would all be different now.

In reality, Chandler is not that guy, and his whole career impact numbers show that, there is plenty of evidence, and there is none, that he was the one reason that finally made us winners. No. It was Dirk first and foremost, and his absolutely ridiculous, historic run, up until the finals where he was sick, and injured, and his numbers somehow plummeted because of that.

That year, Dirk could have won with a lot of centers, as he almost won with Damp in 2006. In order of importence imo, it went something like this. 1. Dirk. 2. Team defense 3. Carlisle and the smart use of zone 4. Kidd and Chandler. Tyson surely helped, and i will be forever grateful for him, but again, he was not the biggest difference, and letting him go while might have been a mistake, chances are, it was not a huge mistake, and we wouldn't be much better right now with him.

Even if you disregard everything i said, there is still the one aspect with Tyson, is that he was never consistently healthy, and on top of that, was kind of considered a contract year player. So there was that, too. Again, i like the guy, i just not agree with the notion that he was an all-world, all-defense kind of guy, and there is plenty of statistical evidence that shows exactly that. Not box score stuff, but advanced stats, you know, something that our team actually uses a lot.

Make that an average scrub. That this team is looking for right now anywhere they can find it. Advanced stats in this case appear to be full of crap. All the smartest people in the room use them.

oilfieldtrash · 01-02-2013, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

That's not box score stuff, in fact it is actually the complete opposite. You can look it up, Chandler is historically average when it comes to advanced stats, which clearly shows he's an overrated defender.

Just compare his impact stats with Duncan, or Garnett, it's night and day. I'm not even saying that Chandler wouldn't be a good choice for us, he would be. He's a borderline top 10 center in the league, a very good player, an elite defensive player, he is not.

Mavericks DRtg with Chandler in 2011: 103.2, DRtg without him in 2012: 100.5

Again, that's not box score stuff. That's actually the exact opposite. Same with the Knicks last year, and this year. Teams are playing better, or around the same defense without the guy on the floor consistently. While Garnett for example makes the Celtics defense 1st when he's on the floor, and if i'm not mistaken they are 30th when he's not playing. Chandler is clearly not that kind of player defensively (obviously overall the gap is even larger), but some you guys make him out to be, and frankly it's quite tiring.

Any explanations as to why the Mavericks have went to garbage and the Knicks are now in the championship discussions? Any box scores to explain that away?

Budapest Maverick · 01-02-2013, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Any explanations as to why the Mavericks have went to garbage and the Knicks are now in the championship discussions? Any box scores to explain that away?

First of all, the Knicks aren't contenders. The other thing, we had a statistically better defense last year, than the year before, with a roster similar to the championship squad that Tyson was on. That can only be interpreted in one way, there is no room for discussion.

Chandler wasn't that important to our defense. We actually played better defense with Haywood on the floor in our championship season, than with Chandler. Quite a nice sized sample too. I mean, you guys can feel free to disregard those, but those are pretty strong arguments by themselves, without adding anything, but just for fun.

In the season after our championship run, our problem was clearly the offense. Again, our defense actually improved. Our offense though, plummeted, thanks to Dirk having a down year. He's clearly our offensive anchor, even though he's doing it in an unconventional manner. Remember, he started the season unprepared, and never really looked right after that. That was it.

As far as this year's roster goes, it's a complete mass. Why would you compare that to any of our previous rosters for an argument... Bad chemistry, terrible point guard play, terrible defense, terrible offense, terrible rebounding, you name it. Sure, Chandler would help, i'm not denying that. Kaman is the worst, as far as defense goes, and he's actually not that good on offense, because he can't get to the line at all, so has a pedestrian TS%.

Budapest Maverick · 01-02-2013, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Make that an average scrub. That this team is looking for right now anywhere they can find it. Advanced stats in this case appear to be full of crap. All the smartest people in the room use them.

An above average player is not a scrub. I never said Chandler was a scrub. Advanced stats can't be full of crap when there is a large enough sample size, that's the beauty of it. Just take a look at the +- stats of the last decade, for the best players, offensively, defensively, overall. They are almost never wrong.

dude1394 · 01-02-2013, 07:10 PM

Sure they are contenders, 6th best record in the league is a contending team, period.