Kidd Talk

[BGMaverick9]

I think it does deserve it's own thread...and it gives us something to talk about while we enjoy our nice long rest heading into the 2nd round.

Props for Dirkadirkastan for finding the article.

Here is the teaser that was on db.com

ITEM: Reporter Art Garcia had a long conversation with Kidd about free agency – Jason sure isn’t shy about talking about his future! -- so be on the lookout for that piece tomorrow on NBA.com

then you add the quick note Jet mentioned about Kidd in his post-game interview...

Kidd closes the door on Spurs ... but not everyone else

By Art Garcia, NBA.com
Posted Apr 29 2009 2:16AM

SAN ANTONIO -- Six years later, Jason Kidd promises to go with his head and not his heart.

That may not be good news for the freshly-minted Western Conference semifinalists. When he hits free agency this time, the suitors may again feature an NBA champion. Back then, it was the Spurs. This summer, the Lakers or Cavaliers might come knocking on his door.

The rest of the circumstances don't exactly line up. Now, he's 36. He's no longer considered the crème of the point guard crop. Chris Paul leads the league's pantheon of playmakers guards now, along with Deron Williams, and the man Kidd almost replaced in San Antonio.

Tony Parker couldn't have had a better series, and Kidd let him know as much after Tuesday night's 106-93 clincher that sent the Mavericks to the second round for the first time in three years. Dallas awaits the Nuggets-Hornets winner, with Denver holding a commanding 3-1 lead going into tomorrow's Game 5 at Denver.

"With everything we've gone through this season," Kidd said, "we still have a good chance to compete for the Western Conference."

The Spurs denied Kidd and the Nets in their second shot at a title in 2003. Kidd didn't exactly return the favor this year, since San Antonio wasn't going to win a title with Manu Ginobili sidelined. Instead, Kidd has taken part in what some are calling the end of the dynastic-like run here.

(No, the Spurs were never a dynasty, not that Gregg Popovich and Co. care about such a distinction. And don't think for a second their window has closed. A healthy Tim Duncan and Ginobili, a couple of roster tweaks and they're right back in the hunt next season.)

Kidd will be back, too, but Big D might not be home. His second incarnation with the Mavericks hasn't been without controversy, though much of the Devin Harris backlash has died down. The Harris-led Mavs lost in the first round in his first full season as a starter despite being the top seed in the West.

Kidd has them in the semis as a sixth seed. If the Mavericks continue to trend up with the multi-faceted attack the sunk the Spurs in five games, the West finals aren't a stretch. Would such a postseason run play into Kidd's decision to sign with Dallas?

"I'm going into it with an open mind and see what comes up," he said. "There could be some great situations again, so maybe this time I'll think with my mind and not my heart."

Kidd can't help but wonder what might have been had he signed a different team's contract in 2003. The Spurs, from Popovich on down, did everything right in their recruitment, Kidd said. He decided to stay in New Jersey, saying that "loyalty" was a factor and believing the Nets were on the brink. That changed with Kenyon Martin's exit.

The Spurs remained a title contender, and Kidd counted up the rings he passed up.

"Maybe I would have had two," he said. "Maybe or I might have messed it up. I don't think I could have messed up throwing the ball to Tim and Tony and Ginobili."

Kidd doesn't think his arrival in San Antonio would have pushed Parker out. Parker thought otherwise, figuring he would have eventually been traded. Kidd's flirtation with the Spurs did give him maximum bargaining power against New Jersey, and his willingness to look elsewhere this summer could drive the price up in Dallas.

The Mavericks' front office expects a number of teams to come after Kidd this time, despite his age and production. But his impact has never been strictly measured by stats, which coincidently were the worst of his career this season. And it's not about athleticism. As someone who's never played above the rim, Kidd hardly missed a beat or lost a step after microfracture surgery earlier this decade.

Kidd is still quick enough and smart enough to double-back on an outlet pass, steal the ball and coax a foul out of Roger Mason late in the third quarter of Game 4. Kidd's two 3-pointers in the last two minutes of Tuesday's third quarter, including one at the horn, turned back a Spurs' charge and staked Dallas to a 15-point lead.

Popovich has admired Kidd since his high school days in Oakland, adding he "does those Ginobili things." The perfectly timed burst going into the fourth quarter all but cooked the Spurs, and were the last points Kidd would score in a 41-minute outing. He finished with a cool dozen, all off 3-pointers, as six Mavs scored in double figures. Dirk Nowitzki, the MVP teammate he never had in New Jersey, scored 31.

"They made stops and had little runs of their own," Popovich said. "That's why they won the series 4-1."

Kidd didn't have to dominate this series as Parker did. Had Kidd spent the last six years in Silver & Black, "That would have been a great ride to be part of." But he won't let finally besting the Spurs in the postseason factor into his July thinking.

Asked to put odds on a return to the city of his NBA birth, Kidd politely declines. "I can't," he said. "I wouldn't even know how to handicap it, but I like it in Dallas."

He liked New Jersey, too. Sometimes the heart is wrong.

[Dirkadirkastan]

And props to you for making the new thread. I'm always gun-shy when it comes to making new threads.

[sefant77]

Kidd will look at Lakers, Celtics, Magic and Cavs.

He wants to play until 40 and i dont think he wants to sit allready next season 30mins on the bench behind a rising allstar.

That rules out Magic (Nelson) and Boston (Rondo).

Cleveland: He loves James and James loves him. But they have also Mo Williams. Playing with Mo like with Terry and Barea? Could be. BUT if he signs the multiyear MLE he has a nice shot 09/10 but still have to beat LA and a healthy Boston that year. But what then? To sign with Cleveland he would basically need the promise of James to stay in Cleveland. Or he is after 2010 stuck in a probably mediocre team. Or he sign just a 1 year deal with Cleveland. But i see Cleveland also looking and using the MLE for a fresher and younger center since Z and Ben getting really really old...

Lakers: If they call and offer the MLE we should be screwed because that would give Kidd a ring for sure. BUT do they need Kidd? Will they go for him? Fisher is enough running the TPO. And their main priority is probable to resign Ariza (~5 Mio) and Odom because they need them more than a Kidd.

So, the only fear i see is the Lakers. IF they make a run. Or a 1 year sign with Cleveland.

I hope Cuban pulls early a trade that pushes us near or even on the level of LA and Cleveland (e.g. the often posted Stack/XY for Jefferson/Kaman etc).

Then i see Kidd staying here 2 more years trying for his ring. And after that he can still go and choose the contender bench he wanna sit for the minimum (Lakers).

And of course, if he leaves the Harris trade would be a disaster.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

And props to you for making the new thread. I'm always gun-shy when it comes to making new threads.

I figured it DEFINITELY deserved it's own thread, not a case of Thread Diarrhea.

The only thing I can see most of our competitors offering is the MLE, Cleveland and LA. The Lakers need to take care of Odom and probably Ariza. I doubt it because I don't know if he actually really gains more from it but Kobe could always throw a curveball and opt out and say he wants more money. I think that only really leaves the MLE to offer to Kidd. Cleveland does have some money coming off the books but I'm sure they'll want to address other issues but Kidd would be the home run option if they can't follow through with other options. Honestly though, they've got about 3-4, maybe even 5 guys who can legitimately play PG for that team and can do it well...that's not an issue for them. They'll also wanna be sure they're setting themselves up for success for giving the mega money contract to Lebron that following summer.

The Cuban factor will come in to play. He's going to have the money to throw at Kidd and he'll probably have the multi-year deal if it's necessary. Dallas has a lot of assets to use in the summer to bolster the roster if it's necessary to do so and still keep Kidd.

It'll be interesting for sure.

[ghazi]

I really hope he stays.

[mqywaaah]

And this means that we will be PG-less come next season. I would love to keep Kidd here in Dallas, but not at a steep price. For something less maybe.

[sefant77]

2 years for a total of 15-20 million. Maybe an additional 3rd year with a teamoption or not guaranteed with strong restrictions (like Damp).

Do it Mark!

[jthig32]

This depresses me just thinking about it.

[tsar]

I really hope Kidd stays, he is an amazing player and a good team mate. It seems like he has made the whole team smarter even when he's not on the floor; the leadership and the bball IQ rubs off. It also showed us that Harris wasn't all that special to begin with because we've been able to supplement some of what he brings with JJB. If we don't retain him I predict we'll see a large decline in the teams performance unless we can find another true PG. I hope Cuban does everything in his power to keep Kidd.

[MX425]

Keep Kidd at whatever price. Anyone who says either cheap or nothing doesn't realize we are not under the cap and prob won't be if we want to upgrade this summer. Its not our money it is Cubes money. We need to keep Kidd, if we don't we are all the sudden on the outside of the playoffs lokking in.

[TheMaverick]

It would seriously suck if we lose such a special player in Jason Kidd

[Underdog]

Kidd walks...

But we get Chris Paul...





(hey, I thought beating San Antonio in 5 was impossible too!)

[DirkFTW]

Cavs miss out on the ring, and LeBron calls Kidd to say "stay put. I'm going to you."

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Cavs miss out on the ring, and LeBron calls Kidd to say "stay put. I'm going to you."

That's somewhat possible. I think Cleveland's sense of urgency might change if they don't get the title this year.

[Dirkenstien]

As I mentioned in the other thread, I think LA is going to be a huge pull for him and I really don't know how he could turn down an opportunity to play with such a dominant team. He's never been on THE feared team of the league and I think he's the kind of guy that wants to be a part of something like that.

Let's enjoy Kidd while we have him.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

As I mentioned in the other thread, I think LA is going to be a huge pull for him and I really don't know how he could turn down an opportunity to play with such a dominant team. He's never been on THE feared team of the league and I think he's the kind of guy that wants to be a part of something like that.

Let's enjoy Kidd while we have him.

You think he's the kind of guy that wants to be on the feared team on the league? Really? I don't get that from him. He wants to be on a good/competitive team and be a major contributor to it but I think there is a difference between that and saying I want to be on the most dominant team in the the league.

[MaVs0541]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Cavs miss out on the ring, and LeBron calls Kidd to say "stay put. I'm going to you."

o man if that happen i would go insane lol but i really hope kidd stays he is an amazing point guard and we cant loose him if it wasn't for him we wouldn't be in the 2nd round right now so Cuban keep him no matter what and u can bring James lol i wish

[kg_veteran]

Has anybody considered the obvious here? Kidd just wants a bigger contract from Dallas, and the way to leverage that is to hint at leaving.

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

You think he's the kind of guy that wants to be on the feared team on the league? Really? I don't get that from him. He wants to be on a good/competitive team and be a major contributor to it but I think there is a difference between that and saying I want to be on the most dominant team in the the league.

That may have been the case in 2003 but he clearly wants the ring now. If he were content being on a competitive team he wouldn't have lifted up his skirt in Cleveland or talked so openly about wishing he joined the Spurs, or gone out of his way to avoid saying he'd like to be back in Dallas next year.

He's been a perennial All-Star, made multiple All-NBA teams (offensive and defensive), played in over 100 playoff games including two Finals appearances, and made over $150M. The only thing left is the ring.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

or gone out of his way to avoid saying he'd like to be back in Dallas next year

Actually, in the article above (btw, screw you, Art Garcia, for trying to ruin my enjoyment of the first round win!), he says that he likes it in Dallas. Sure, he's not guaranteeing a return, but neither is Dirk.

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Has anybody considered the obvious here? Kidd just wants a bigger contract from Dallas, and the way to leverage that is to hint at leaving.

I had considered that but Jason Terry's comments lead me to believe that this is more than just posturing. Unless Terry's in on it .

[SMC0007]

I wonder if there is life on other planets.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I had considered that but Jason Terry's comments lead me to believe that this is more than just posturing. Unless Terry's in on it .

Can you link to exactly what Terry said?

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Can you link to exactly what Terry said?

From mavs moneyball...but they're taking it from Terry's post-game interview

It's been along time since you guys got to taste winning a playoff series. What did it mean to win this one in five games?

It's tremendous. Over the last three years we've obviously been through a lot of adversity -- not getting out of the first round. But that's not our goal. Our goal is to win a championship. Obviously there is some urgency, with Jason Kidd probably not going to be with us next year. The time is now. We feel we are still under the radar. Nobody expects us to win. We are definitely not going to be favored in the next series, so we all have to continue to play and keep it going.

------

I dunno, you can read it in two totally different ways. One is the way where he feels like he knows Kidd is gone for sure...for whatever reason. The other way is that he's trying to keep the sense of urgency and hungry alive. Kind of like, hey this could be the last time we are all together...so we need to stay hungry and be ready to fight.

[kg_veteran]

If it helps them maintain their sense of urgency, then fine. I'll worry about next year in July.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

If it helps them maintain their sense of urgency, then fine. I'll worry about next year in July.

I agree, and as mentioned, the article is a good way to create leverage.
I've gotten the impression that he really likes it here and I think this run can help solidify that.

[DLord]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Has anybody considered the obvious here? Kidd just wants a bigger contract from Dallas, and the way to leverage that is to hint at leaving.

Bingo. Finally someone who gets it.

It's always been about the payday this summer. The payday is the way an owner puts his estimation of value on a player, Kidd has used finesse to say it, but he's always been consistent that it's the contract. And the ball is in Cuban's court, because he has the ability to pay more than anyone else if he wants to.

I haven't ever seen Kidd say he wants to leave. In fact, my sense from both what he's said and what he's done is he would prefer to stay. But he doesn't control the offers, and he's a grown man who understands that and knows he has to play the hand he's dealt.

[jthig32]

I would normally be on KG's side on this, but Terry's comments really threw me. And honestly I'm pretty pissed about it and that stupid Art Garcia article.

Not even a month ago I was commisserating with KG about how much mediocrity sucks. Now the Mavs are out of the first round, Josh Howard looks reborn, Barea and Bass have established themselves and legitimate playoff rotation players, and I have visions dancing in my head of us cashing in on Stackhouse and maybe even the mid level to add to this suddenly promising core.

And now this.

Bleah.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by DLord

Bingo. Finally someone who gets it.

It's always been about the payday this summer. The payday is the way an owner puts his estimation of value on a player, Kidd has used finesse to say it, but he's always been consistent that it's the contract. And the ball is in Cuban's court, because he has the ability to pay more than anyone else if he wants to.

I haven't ever seen Kidd say he wants to leave. In fact, my sense from both what he's said and what he's done is he would prefer to stay. But he doesn't control the offers, and he's a grown man who understands that and knows he has to play the hand he's dealt.

Then what do you make of Terry's comment?

Sorry, the idea that this is a negotiation ploy doesn't jive with me on this one.

I'm not saying it's a done deal, but I think you can officially say Kidd has already been looking at his upcoming opportunities, to the point that Jet has noticed.

[Murphy3]

Personally, I don't think Kidd should talk about anything else concerning basketball other than what's currently going on in the playoffs. Now is not the time to try and get a new contract or anything else in my opinion. He needs to worry about keeping the opposing PG under 80 instead of trying to up the amount of millions he'll have in his checking account next season.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Personally, I don't think Kidd should talk about anything else concerning basketball other than what's currently going on in the playoffs. Now is not the time to try and get a new contract or anything else in my opinion. He needs to worry about keeping the opposing PG under 80 instead of trying to up the amount of millions he'll have in his checking account next season.

That was my gut reaction, too, but then I started thinking a bit about context. Garcia is doing an article and asking Kidd pointed questions about whether or not he is going to re-sign with Dallas. Kidd isn't going to come right out and say, "Yes, I'm definitely staying here." That doesn't make any sense, and it doesn't make Kidd disloyal to answer the question that way.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Then what do you make of Terry's comment?

Sorry, the idea that this is a negotiation ploy doesn't jive with me on this one.

I'm not saying it's a done deal, but I think you can officially say Kidd has already been looking at his upcoming opportunities, to the point that Jet has noticed.

I think Terry's comment could mean that Kidd is a free agent and everything is uncertain this summer if the team doesn't keep advancing. Heck, for all we know Terry may think that Cuban won't offer Kidd enough money.

Bottom line, I'm not going to get all worked up about Kidd's comments. I don't think he's dreaming of leaving or even actively thinking about it at this point. The guy I see out there on the court is focused on trying to win it all, and win it all now.

[jthig32]

If Jet had said "may not be back" then I'd agree. But he said "probably". And Jet doesn't generally mince words and say something he doesn't mean.

We'll see. I'm not really obsessing about it, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't punch me in the stomach last night when I heard the comment.

[Kidd Karma]

If Kidd is true to his word, I don't know if teams would be willing to wait on him. While he waits and sees what Cuban does to better the team. Chronologically, trades aren't official until July 1.....or July 15, if there's a moratorium. First there's the draft and given our pick, it won't help much. I guess we can always hold discussions and make "unofficial" trades to give Kidd an idea as to what direction we're headed. I think Lebron stays in Cleveland in 2010 and beyond, I think he's invested a lot of things mentally and physically on the Cavaliers. The relations he's developed, the big fish in a small pond versus a small fish in a big pond(NY). The guy's already worldwide and it will grow as time passes. NY isn't going to get him mainstream or on the map, he's already there. I think Cleveland's a realistic option for Kidd at this point.

[DLord]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Then what do you make of Terry's comment?

I think JET doesn't really recognize the nuances of contract negotiations (a lot of these guys don't). Or maybe he is just talking and playing the worst case scenario game (as a motivational tool, perhaps).

But if you think he somehow truly KNOWS what's going to happen at this point - at a time when Cuban and Kidd don't - then I think you give him far too much credit. He's not in Kidd's head, he's not Kidd's agent, and he's not Miss Cleo.

[dirno2000]

What's the harm in saying "if we can get the detals worked out I'd love to continue playing here"? That leavs him an out but indicates that he likes the team and, if Cuban does his part, plans to be here. His vauge statment could mean that he likes the team but it could just as easily mean he likes the city.

Do you honestly think that when Kidd says he regrets not signing with San Antonio he's negotiating? Those strike me as honest reflective comments from a great player who see's his career coming to and end and would rather be Gary Payton than Patrick Ewing.

I'm not saying it's not about the contract. Only that we're going to have to overpay, in either money or years, to keep him. All things being I think he's gone.

[Dirkenstien]

My view of the situation is that Kidd is going to look for an opportunity to be a part of a strong championship caliber team. The Lakers make a lot of sense. Cleveland makes some sense, and we could make some sense depending on what moves we make this off-season coupled with the advantage we have with being able to pay him more.

Sure nothing is set in stone yet, and nobody knows what kind of decisions they'll make, but if I know anything about Kobe and Lebron I know that they both played with Kidd on Team USA and they both love the guy and will make extremely competitive pitches in the off-season. Those guys are competitors on AND off the court; I expect them to pursue Kidd with the same tenacity they have on the court.

Can we counter those pitches with a great pitch of our own? Right now I'm not sure we can. Kidd only has so many years left ... is he going to play the money game when he already has tons of it or is he going to take less to get something money can't buy? My guess is the latter.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

What's the harm in saying "if we can get the detals worked out I'd love to continue playing here"? That leavs him an out but indicates that he likes the team and, if Cuban does his part, plans to be here. His vauge statment could mean that he likes the team but it could just as easily mean he likes the city.

Do you honestly think that when Kidd says he regrets not signing with San Antonio he's negotiating? Those strike me as honest reflective comments from a great player who see's his career coming to and end and would rather be Gary Payton than Patrick Ewing.

I'm not saying it's not about the contract. Only that we're going to have to overpay, in either money or years, to keep him. All things being I think he's gone.

Well said. I completely agree. His comments about San Antonio seem to have been sincere and much more than money leveraging statements.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

That was my gut reaction, too, but then I started thinking a bit about context. Garcia is doing an article and asking Kidd pointed questions about whether or not he is going to re-sign with Dallas. Kidd isn't going to come right out and say, "Yes, I'm definitely staying here." That doesn't make any sense, and it doesn't make Kidd disloyal to answer the question that way.

What I want to hear from him is this: "I'm a Mav. I don't want to discuss anything concerning basketball other than playoffs until our run is finished.. hopefully with a championship"

That's it. If a reporter wants to ask him about contracts or anything else, that is how I would expect a player to answer.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

What I want to hear from him is this: "I'm a Mav. I don't want to discuss anything concerning basketball other than playoffs until our run is finished.. hopefully with a championship"

That's it. If a reporter wants to ask him about contracts or anything else, that is how I would expect a player to answer.

Fair enough.