Championship and Playoff series failures

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

You couldn't be more wrong about Carlisle. He's never had any meltdowns. The only series he lost that you could argue he should've won was in 03 when his Pistons lost to the Nets.

The next year, when his Pacers lost to the Pistons, they lost to the better team. The Pacers did have the best record that year, yes, but remember that Detroit acquired Rasheed right before the deadline. That was HUGE. If Detroit had Rasheed from the season opener, they might've had the best record. I mean, c'mon, Chauncey Billups against Jamaal Tinsley? Tayshaun Prince against a 40-year-old Reggie Miller? Detroit was the better team, hands down. Didn't that Detroit team also go on to win the championship 4 games to 1 against the heavily favored Lakers? I believe they did.

And the only reason the Pacers did "worse and worse each year" after that was because of the brawl. Remember the beginning of the 05 season? The Pacers were favored to win the East. Then Artest gets suspended for the rest of the season, with Stephen Jackson and JO missing significant time too. The Pacers never recovered from that because JO could never stay healthy, not to mention Jackson's well-documented off-court problems.

Carlisle's coaching in Indiana was outstanding IMO. After the brawl, the Pacers were expected to have one of the worst records in the league, and they still managed to make the playoffs that year and get out of the first round. Indiana's downfall was anything but Carlisle's fault.

Lets say that you are completely right on this. Then tell me why they fired him, and why he sat out for an entire season afterwards while no GM took a chance on this young great coach?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Lets say that you are completely right on this. Then tell me why they fired him, and why he sat out for an entire season afterwards while no GM took a chance on this young great coach?

I honestly don't know exactly why they fired him. I figure they were in rebuilding mode and just wanted a fresh perspective.

Why he sat for a season? Because the Mavs were f**king stupid enough to waste another year on Avery, that's why.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Why he sat for a season? Because the Mavs were f**king stupid enough to waste another year on Avery, that's why.

I think he was asking you why no other team hired him during that year, not why the Mavs didn't fire Avery and hire him.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I think he was asking you why no other team hired him during that year, not why the Mavs didn't fire Avery and hire him.

I kinda got that. There was a bit of sarcasm in my answer. I dunno though. How many other positions were available. I don't remember. Was there there a lot of coaching turnover that season? Furthermore, was there any position Carlisle was offered that he would've been interested? How do we know he didn't turn down some offers. I don't know.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I kinda got that. There was a bit of sarcasm in my answer. I dunno though. How many other positions were available. I don't remember. Was there there a lot of coaching turnover that season? Furthermore, was there any position Carlisle was offered that he would've been interested? How do we know he didn't turn down some offers. I don't know.

I dunno either. I thought maybe you did.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I kinda got that. There was a bit of sarcasm in my answer. I dunno though. How many other positions were available. I don't remember. Was there there a lot of coaching turnover that season? Furthermore, was there any position Carlisle was offered that he would've been interested? How do we know he didn't turn down some offers. I don't know.

I think maybe Carlisle turned all those jobs away like Avery did

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I honestly don't know exactly why they fired him. I figure they were in rebuilding mode and just wanted a fresh perspective.

Why he sat for a season? Because the Mavs were f**king stupid enough to waste another year on Avery, that's why.

A hot young great coach like that would never be w/o a job in the NBA. There had to be something to where GM's would not pick him up right after the Pacer gig. Keep in mind that he left a Larry Bird Pacer team. Carlisle and Bird were very good friends from playing together and coaching together under Bird. There had to be a reason other than re-building.

When Carlisle left the Pistons, the players wanted to get rid of him as well for some reason or another, and won the NBA title after the next year. Then his buddy Bird let him go as well. To top it off, no other GM took a chance on him for an entire year. Is there something there? Dont know, but it looks a little fishy to me. IMO

Now, Avery is another story. Young, hot coach with one of the best regular season records ever, but is now without a job for an entire season. Is there a reason for it? Could be, dont know, but it is fishy. We all know why he is NOT here, but why is he not anywhere else?

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

A hot young great coach like that would never be w/o a job in the NBA. There had to be something to where GM's would not pick him up right after the Pacer gig. Keep in mind that he left a Larry Bird Pacer team. Carlisle and Bird were very good friends from playing together and coaching together under Bird. There had to be a reason other than re-building.

When Carlisle left the Pistons, the players wanted to get rid of him as well for some reason or another, and won the NBA title after the next year. Then his buddy Bird let him go as well. To top it off, no other GM took a chance on him for an entire year. Is there something there? Dont know, but it looks a little fishy to me. IMO

Now, Avery is another story. Young, hot coach with one of the best regular season records ever, but is now without a job for an entire season. Is there a reason for it? Could be, dont know, but it is fishy. We all know why he is NOT here, but why is he not anywhere else?

bologna

players want to get rid of coaches all the time.. coaches get fired all the time. It doesn't mean they are bad coaches. And him being friends with Bird has nothing to do with it. Nellie was the GMs son when he got fired for christsake. And how do you know the year off was because he wanted the time off to do ESPN? or because he wasn't interested in any of the teams with open positions?

I'll judge Rick on what he did with his past teams and what he's doing with this team. All that gossip and guessing doesn't do anything for me.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

bologna

players want to get rid of coaches all the time.. coaches get fired all the time. It doesn't mean they are bad coaches. And him being friends with Bird has nothing to do with it. Nellie was the GMs son when he got fired for christsake. And how do you know the year off was because he wanted the time off to do ESPN? or because he wasn't interested in any of the teams with open positions?

I'll judge Rick on what he did with his past teams and what he's doing with this team. All that gossip and guessing doesn't do anything for me.

Dont give that speech. Players DONT always want to get rid of coaches. You sound silly to think that if a good friend of Carlisle fired him it dont mean nothing. When you fire a friend, you are essentially taking food from the table of that person that you are friends with. So, yes it had to take alot for Bird to fire him. I dont know what it was, nor do you, but I will assume it took alot to fire a friend.

When was the last time you heard of a young hot coach wanting to take off for ESPN? Well, I heard of one and his name is Avery. Remember all those head coaching jobs he turned down? For the record, Nellie did NOT get fired. Nellie did what he wanted to do to promote Avery and get paid from Cuban. As of matter of fact, he got paid twice, because Mark paid him and he took a new job as well all while relaxing on the beaches doing some so called scouting.

Carlisle is NOT above criticism, so it comes with the territory. I have not seen a single thing to change my mind otherwise on Carlisle from the past. I was hoping he would become the difference maker and that the complete problem was Avery. Right now, it looks like the problems are much deeper than Avery.