Plan B if D Wade and Lebron go elsewhere

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by mavsfan4lyfe201

johnson is alot like iggy and would work but iggy provides more slashing..which is what we need badly.

Why not both??

I already posted this in the offseason thread, but I'll put it here since it's pertinent.

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I wonder what it would take to get Iggy. If we could get him without giving up Roddy, I'd call that a home run. Throw in Dalembert and it's a grand slam.

If neither Lebron nor Wade wind up in Dallas (and I don't think they will), my ideal Plan B would be to Iggy and JJ for any combination of Damp&Butler + filler.

JKidd
JJ
Iggy
Dirk
Haywood

That starting five isn't necessarily overwhelming, but I think it would certainly be good enough to be a legit contender, especially with Roddy as our sixth man.

The more I think about it, the more I absolutely love this idea. Basketball-wise, that lineup is absolutely solid, inside and out and on both ends of the floor. I would put that team up against the Lakers any day.

Thinking about it a little more, the real long shot is landing either of these guys, Iggy in particular, without giving up Roddy. Butler for Iggy straight up works salary wise, and Butler's contract is up next year, so the Sixers would save a ton of money. Philly is over the cap, but I'm just not sure how desperate they are to shed salary. Without Roddy, they would probably demand that we take back another of their bad contracts, namely Brand, and I'm not sure we could even make that work salary-wise (although basketball-wise, it could work nicely)

That, and of course we would still have to convince JJ to come here and work a S&T with Atlanta. Who the hell knows how likely that is.

So yeah, it's a long shot, but certainly no more so than landing Lebron friggin James.

[Thespiralgoeson]

This works on realgm.

Dallas trades

Caron Butler
Jason Terry
Eduardo Najera

Philadelphia trades

Andre Iguodala
Elton Brand

Philly definitely loses on talent, but not too horribly, and they save a TON of money in the long run. The last years on both Jet's and Eddie's contracts are unguaranteed, so financially it makes great sense for Philly. The Mavs get a huge upgrade in talent. Aside from the obvious impact of Iggy, having a bench of Roddy/Marion/Brand would be pretty sick. I have serious doubts as to whether Cuban would be willing to take on that much salary, but I think it's a solid deal for the Mavs.

[dalmations202]

Does Philly kick in the #2 pick as well?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Does Philly kick in the #2 pick as well?

Why would they if they're rebuilding?

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Why would they if they're rebuilding?

To get rid of the Brand contract.

Maybe????

They are basically trading Iggy for Butler and JET - then moving Brand and the cost is the #2 pick.

Although if I was Philly, I wouldn't. If I did then Dallas would be kicking in Damp, etc so I could clear massive $$$$$, and it would be a much larger deal.

<edit>

When I say larger deal I mean something like:
Brand, Iggy, Dalembert, #2 for Damp, Butler, JET, Stevenson, JJB.

Philly basically kills all the long term and BIG contracts, but aren't killed by no talent. They get their current youngsters like Holliday and Young lots of burn, but still have vets on short terms. They get killed by BIGS, but they are getting killed by BIGS now- and these have large contracts.

Dallas gets a shot NOW.
Kidd, Iggy, Marion, Dirk, Dalembert/ (resigned Haywood or Damp)
Roddy, #2 pick, Brand off the bench. 9 deep, and really only looking for a zone buster with the MLE.

Kidd is brains, leader, and spot up guy.
Iggy is slasher and Robin
Marion is clean up (trash guy - picks, alley oops, some low post stuff)
Dirk is Batman
Dalembert is middle defense and clean the glass (janitor).

Roddy is the penetrating PG.
Brand is the post (high and low) guy - especially when Dirk is off the floor - forcing post defense.
Haywood/Damp - both are 6 fouls and keep teams honest in the paint.
#2 pick which would most likely be Evan Turner - #1 swingman off the bench. Said to have excellent vision and handles - and a terrific crossover. Very long wingspan.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

When I say larger deal I mean something like:
Brand, Iggy, Dalembert, #2 for Damp, Butler, JET, Stevenson, JJB.

I think this would qualify as the largest 2-team deal in NBA history...

Bare bones, we can trade DUST for Iggy straight-up.

I somewhat agree with Caron Butler that this team could "come back the same next season and compete for a championship", but I think we're still a (moderate) piece or two away from that. Sure, that 13-win streak got our hopes up, but the reality is that the only mid-season moves that have ever yielded a championship were the Clyde Drexler and Rasheed Wallace trades. Most new starting lineups need a training camp and a full year of chemistry-building to take the next step.

The simple addition of Iggy would give us tremendous flexibility:

Kidd/Roddy/JJB
Iggy/Roddy/JET
Butler/Marion/Iggy
Dirk/Marion/Najera
Haywood/Damp/Dirk

I still think we need a better answer at the 5 (like Dalmbert or Brand or someone else... Haywood/Damp/Gooden?), but I also think Butler at the 3 can still be our Robin most nights. Add Iggy as another Robin at the 2 and I think we're in business, especially with Marion/Roddy/JET all capable of going off at any given moment...

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

To get rid of the Brand contract.

Maybe????

They are basically trading Iggy for Butler and JET - then moving Brand and the cost is the #2 pick.

Although if I was Philly, I wouldn't. If I did then Dallas would be kicking in Damp, etc so I could clear massive $$$$$, and it would be a much larger deal.

<edit>

When I say larger deal I mean something like:
Brand, Iggy, Dalembert, #2 for Damp, Butler, JET, Stevenson, JJB.

Philly basically kills all the long term and BIG contracts, but aren't killed by no talent. They get their current youngsters like Holliday and Young lots of burn, but still have vets on short terms. They get killed by BIGS, but they are getting killed by BIGS now- and these have large contracts.

Dallas gets a shot NOW.
Kidd, Iggy, Marion, Dirk, Dalembert/ (resigned Haywood or Damp)
Roddy, #2 pick, Brand off the bench. 9 deep, and really only looking for a zone buster with the MLE.

Kidd is brains, leader, and spot up guy.
Iggy is slasher and Robin
Marion is clean up (trash guy - picks, alley oops, some low post stuff)
Dirk is Batman
Dalembert is middle defense and clean the glass (janitor).

Roddy is the penetrating PG.
Brand is the post (high and low) guy - especially when Dirk is off the floor - forcing post defense.
Haywood/Damp - both are 6 fouls and keep teams honest in the paint.
#2 pick which would most likely be Evan Turner - #1 swingman off the bench. Said to have excellent vision and handles - and a terrific crossover. Very long wingspan.

I don't like this deal. Frankly I don't think that lineup would compete for the title. I still haven't given up on the idea of landing one of the major free agents, and so I don't want to throw in the DUST chip just to get the #2 pick, unless we absolutely know we're getting a future star (admittedly, I don't know anything about Evan Turner.)

For me, this would be more like plan C or D. As I said earlier, plan B for me essentially is JJ for DUST, and Iggy for Butler.

[RoddyB#3]

I like the ideas for getting something out of Philly, but I don't think it's going to happen. Collins has already said that he wants Iggy, Dalembert, and Brand to be starters. He even said one of his main priorities is to team up with Coach K and meet with Brand to have some fun. Mainly just trying to get Brand going again. He called Brand a leader and someone he plans to lean heavy on this coming season. He see's Iggy as a 3 and wants to see him be more aggressive. Dalembert is someone Collins has known since he played at Seton Hall under his son.

Philly is going to give Collins what he wants in his first year. Holiday/Turner/Iggy/Brand/Dalembert is probably what we will see. They will at least see how things work up until the deadline. Unfortunately for us, I believe Collins signing has put any big deal on hold unless it's a move that makes them better basketball wise. I don't believe they will look for money savings this off season. Unless they get off to a bad start. Then we might see something around the deadline.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by RoddyB#3

I like the ideas for getting something out of Philly, but I don't think it's going to happen. Collins has already said that he wants Iggy, Dalembert, and Brand to be starters. He even said one of his main priorities is to team up with Coach K and meet with Brand to have some fun. Mainly just trying to get Brand going again. He called Brand a leader and someone he plans to lean heavy on this coming season. He see's Iggy as a 3 and wants to see him be more aggressive. Dalembert is someone Collins has known since he played at Seton Hall under his son.

Philly is going to give Collins what he wants in his first year. Holiday/Turner/Iggy/Brand/Dalembert is probably what we will see. They will at least see how things work up until the deadline. Unfortunately for us, I believe Collins signing has put any big deal on hold unless it's a move that makes them better basketball wise. I don't believe they will look for money savings this off season. Unless they get off to a bad start. Then we might see something around the deadline.

i tend to agree with this

[dalmations202]

I tend to agree with all the above, and the bigger deal is from a Philly perspective - not a Dallas one.

Why would Philly do a Iggy for Damp? I can't see that one -- they want to get rid of Brands contract.

If you want Iggy from them, you have to take Brand, and send talent back, IMO.

Although I think Dallas could get it done, it would take a huge deal, IMO, to get Philly to do it --- which is the one I proposed.

With that said, I don't think Dallas would take on all that salary.
It is a thought though.

You might be able to get Brand/#2 for Dust/Barea -- but that isn't really advantageous to Dallas unless you are convinced Brand is back to his old form and Turner is your starting SG.

I don't see them moving Iggy though, without a major deal where they can literally blow it up totally and sign a free agent or two.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I tend to agree with all the above, and the bigger deal is from a Philly perspective - not a Dallas one.

Why would Philly do a Iggy for Damp? I can't see that one -- they want to get rid of Brands contract.

If you want Iggy from them, you have to take Brand, and send talent back, IMO.

Although I think Dallas could get it done, it would take a huge deal, IMO, to get Philly to do it --- which is the one I proposed.

With that said, I don't think Dallas would take on all that salary.
It is a thought though.

You might be able to get Brand/#2 for Dust/Barea -- but that isn't really advantageous to Dallas unless you are convinced Brand is back to his old form and Turner is your starting SG.

I don't see them moving Iggy though, without a major deal where they can literally blow it up totally and sign a free agent or two.

I absolutely agree that the only way to get Iggy is to take on Brand's contract as well, but in that sense I think sending Butler+Terry is a much preferable option to sending Damp. Butler's contract expires next year and Terry's last year is unguaranteed, so it still amounts to a ton of savings for Philly. This way we get the player we want and we can still use the DUST chip to land one of the big free agents (namely JJ).

But alas, Cuban probably isn't willing to take on that much salary.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Butler's contract expires next year and Terry's last year is unguaranteed, so it still amounts to a ton of savings for Philly.

Wait, what?

I thought Terry's last year was guaranteed - if not, I need to re-think the possibilities for this summer because I've pretty much assumed that he's untradeable until next year...

[KINGBEEF]

Hello Mr. Terry what number would you like here in Philly?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Wait, what?

I thought Terry's last year was guaranteed - if not, I need to re-think the possibilities for this summer because I've pretty much assumed that he's untradeable until next year...

At least it is according to ShamSports. Could be dead wrong for all I know, but that's always what I go by as far as salaries go.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pa.../mavericks.jsp

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

At least it is according to ShamSports. Could be dead wrong for all I know, but that's always what I go by as far as salaries go.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pa.../mavericks.jsp

Well I got my info from HoopsHype, so it isn't like my source is trustworthy...

[grndmstr_c]

Didn't patricia's site (am I remembering that correctly?) have info on JETs contract? I seem to remember that the last year wasn't fully guaranteed, but that the criteria that had to be met for the guarantee to kick in were pretty likely to be met.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Didn't patricia's site (am I remembering that correctly?) have info on JETs contract? I seem to remember that the last year wasn't fully guaranteed, but that the criteria that had to be met for the guarantee to kick in were pretty likely to be met.

According to Tim McMahon:

Is Terry's time running out in Dallas?

link

The buyout in Jerry Stackhouse’s contract was the Mavs’ biggest trade chip last summer. Erick Dampier’s nonguaranteed $13 million salary is their biggest trade chip this summer.

Jason Terry’s creatively worded contract could give the Mavs a chip next summer that interests cost-cutting teams – if his minutes are severely slashed.

If Terry plays fewer than 1,500 minutes next season, he can be bought out for $5 million before July 15. That’s a significant savings from his 2011-12 salary of $11.16 million.

If that happens and Mark Cuban is willing to sweeten the pot with cash considerations, the Mavs might be able to move a guy entering the twilight of his career for an impact player in his prime.

A year ago, it looked like Terry hitting that minutes incentive was a layup. It’s only 18.3 minutes per game if he plays all 82, and Terry has averaged over 30 in each of his five seasons as a Mav. Plus, he’s a durable dude who has come back early from injuries the last two seasons.

Of course, a year ago, few folks in Dallas outside the Mavs’ front office could have told you anything about Rodrigue Beaubois. Now there’s big buzz about Roddy B, who is primed for a significant part in the Mavs’ rotation after a promising rookie season.

Who do you think will sacrifice playing time to get Beaubois more burn?

The hope is that Beaubois will develop enough as a point guard this summer to play 12-14 minutes per game behind Jason Kidd. To fully tap into his talent, one would think he’d get at least that many minutes at shooting guard alongside Kidd.

As the roster is currently constructed, Caron Butler is the starting shooting guard. If Butler gets traded, it’s probable that the return package will be a premier wing player.

How many minutes are left over for Terry? It might be in the Mavs’ best interests if the answer is 18 or fewer.

[jthig32]

McMahon's off his rocker if he thinks Jet's minutes are going to dip below 19 a game with the Mavs next year. There has to be an in between step between 30 and less than 20, unless he's just awful.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

McMahon's off his rocker if he thinks Jet's minutes are going to dip below 19 a game with the Mavs next year. There has to be an in between step between 30 and less than 20, unless he's just awful.

Joe Johnson/Roddy/JET

I could see him dipping below 18 in that situation...

[Lor20]

if we get a real 2 terrys minutes WILL go below 20 minutes. a star player needs at least 35 minutes, and booby needs 15 mins on the two positions combined and kidd prolly around 30. out of the 96 guard minutes that leaves 6 minutes plus however long carlisle plays the 3 guard lineup and i dont think its gonna be much more than 10 minutes. so terry 15-20 minutes is quite likely if we land a star #2

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I absolutely agree that the only way to get Iggy is to take on Brand's contract as well...

If you're right about that then Iggy's staying put, because I don't think anybody's going to take on both those contracts.

That said, here's a completely untenable left-field idea that has Dallas doing just that: Damp+Marion+Carroll+Stevenson+Najera for Iggy+Brand. At first glance it seems like Marion with his mixed-bag of a contract (i.e., very reasonable salary but a bit longer than you'd like given his age) plus a bunch of junk, but it'd save Philly a ridiculous amount of cash. In fact, it'd save them so much (46 million over the next three years!!!) that I almost can't even imagine the Mavs would agree to do it unless Philly was willing to expand the deal to include JET, Kapono and the #2.

I'd kinda like that, though, I have to say. Bring in an inexpensive big body at center to complement Wood (we'll call said warm body 'Damp'), and:

Kidd(32) /Booby(16)
Iggy(22) /Turner(20) /Booby(6)
Caron(35) /Iggy(13)
Dirk(36) /Brand(12)
Wood(28) /Brand(14) /Damp(6)

...plus JJB and Kapono getting occasional situational and garbage minutes. You're gambling a bit on both extremes of the age spectrum in your backcourt and you've pretty much locked yourself into having a 90+ million dollar payroll for the next three years, but the talent level on that team (if Turner's a worthy #2 and Booby is what we think he is) would be through the roof.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

If you're right about that then Iggy's staying put, because I don't think anybody's going to take on both those contracts.

That said, here's a completely untenable left-field idea that has Dallas doing just that: Damp+Marion+Carroll+Stevenson+Najera for Iggy+Brand. At first glance it seems like Marion with his mixed-bag of a contract (i.e., very reasonable salary but a bit longer than you'd like given his age) plus a bunch of junk, but it'd save Philly a ridiculous amount of cash. In fact, it'd save them so much (46 million over the next three years!!!) that I almost can't even imagine the Mavs would agree to do it unless Philly was willing to expand the deal to include JET, Kapono and the #2.

I'd kinda like that, though, I have to say. Bring in an inexpensive big body at center to complement Wood (we'll call said warm body 'Damp'), and:

Kidd(32) /Booby(16)
Iggy(22) /Turner(20) /Booby(6)
Caron(35) /Iggy(13)
Dirk(36) /Brand(12)
Wood(28) /Brand(14) /Damp(6)

...plus JJB and Kapono getting occasional situational and garbage minutes. You're gambling a bit on both extremes of the age spectrum in your backcourt and you've pretty much locked yourself into having a 90+ million dollar payroll for the next three years, but the talent level on that team (if Turner's a worthy #2 and Booby is what we think he is) would be through the roof.

Unless there's absolutely no chance whatsoever of us getting one of the big free agents, I have no interest in using the DUST chip on Iggy.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Joe Johnson/Roddy/JET

I could see him dipping below 18 in that situation...

If we get a true stud at SG and keep Roddy, I have to believe some effort will be made to move Jet for something that fits better, even if you have to take it on the chin for his contract.

I just can't imagine Jet being on this team in that type of role. He's been a team player up until now, but everyone has their limits, and given his role as a leader on this team and in the locker room, I can't imagine that situation working out real well.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by jthig32

If we get a true stud at SG and keep Roddy, I have to believe some effort will be made to move Jet for something that fits better, even if you have to take it on the chin for his contract.

I just can't imagine Jet being on this team in that type of role. He's been a team player up until now, but everyone has their limits, and given his role as a leader on this team and in the locker room, I can't imagine that situation working out real well.

Unfortunately I think you're right. And I say unfortunately because I think the guy SHOULD be playing around 18 minutes or so. I've thought that for a few years now, actually.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Unless there's absolutely no chance whatsoever of us getting one of the big free agents, I have no interest in using the DUST chip on Iggy.

If anything, Damp is my preferred route to landing guys like Iggy or JJ. I don't mind giving up a contributor like Butler for a Wade or a Lebron, but if I'm getting back a 'lesser' talent like Iggy I'd rather not be losing any talent in the trade.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

If anything, Damp is my preferred route to landing guys like Iggy or JJ. I don't mind giving up a contributor like Butler for a Wade or a Lebron, but if I'm getting back a 'lesser' talent like Iggy I'd rather not be losing any talent in the trade.

I understand where you're coming from, but what I'm saying is I would only consider using the DUST chip for someone like Iggy after we know that guys like Lebron and Wade are no longer even a remote possibility.

Edit: I just now remembered that's the point of the entire thread. I got this thread mixed up with the offseason thread. Disregard completely. I'm an idiot.

[Eman]

Trade Terry straight up for IGGY!!!!!!!26 years old, big improvement, Philly can intentionally play younger guys ahead of him and cut him for $5 mill at the end of the year. Get off the hook for Iggy's huge contract.

Haywood/Damp
Dirk/Marion/Najera
Marion/Butler
Iggy/Butler/Beaubois
Kidd/Beaubois/jj

We've still got chips for another player.

[Mavericks Rockets Fan]

Originally Posted by Eman

Trade Terry straight up for IGGY!!!!!!!26 years old, big improvement, Philly can intentionally play younger guys ahead of him and cut him for $5 mill at the end of the year. Get off the hook for Iggy's huge contract.

Haywood/Damp
Dirk/Marion/Najera
Marion/Butler
Iggy/Butler/Beaubois
Kidd/Beaubois/jj

We've still got chips for another player.

The 76ers would never accept this trade. If we want Iggy, we will have to throw in Butler.

[SMC0007]

Roddy has to step up. Kidd is not going to cut it.

[clutch#41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Roddy has to step up. Kidd is not going to cut it.

its more like carlise needs to give him playing time.roddy has stepped up when allowed to play.

[jayC]

If not Lebron Joe Johnson that's who. A guy who can distribute and drive to the hole. He is the consistent 20 point a game scorer that the mavs have been searching for, and he becomes the best two guard the mavericks have ever had.

Add a little toughness like Matt Barnes and maybe a backup center like Shaq. Joe Johnson and Dirk may not win an NBA title , but it brings you a lot closer to one than you were before.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Mavericks Rockets Fan

The 76ers would never accept this trade. If we want Iggy, we will have to throw in Butler.

If I were Cuban, honestly I'd call the Sixers and offer Butler for Iggy straight up. It really makes sense from several angles. It's a massive money-saver for Philly, and Iggy is not a big ticket-seller anyway. Besides, Butler is not THAT much of a downgrade from Iggy, so there's really no reason for them to turn this deal down.

Indeed, the only reason I'm confident that it won't happen is because I don't think Cuban would be willing to take on so much salary.

[wilmtalk]

Originally Posted by clutch#41

its more like carlise needs to give him playing time.roddy has stepped up when allowed to play.

I agree whole heartedly. A major problem is RC. Also even if people don't see it our problems at guard are because Kidds limitations in creating offense and defensive libilities help create major the rotation problems. Be creating offense I am not refering to just finding and passing to an open man but actually creating of the dribble and drawing double teams that create space and free up others. Roddy has to be the point with Kidd backing him up before the end of next season.

Damp is another player who's time should be over and should not be resigned under any circumstance's.

[mavsfan2323]

i don't see it happening, but if there's any way we could get iggy/#2 without giving up roddy would be amazing. turner could be the guy that keeps us in championship contention when dirk is winding down his career and after. roddy, iggy, turner at the 1,2,3 would be a great outside lineup for many years. turner's game is going to translate to the NBA very well. 6'7" 210lb slasher with a great midrange game. how long have we been missing that? also avg almost 6FTA per game last year while shooting 75%

[tyronefly]

ok lets be real with all the good guys on the market only two i think a team will actally trae is chris bosh and iggy ....and kinda dwayne wade just kinda but u gon have to give up good players n money for him
so i think we should focus on chris bosh and iggy

[tyronefly]

i agree on the caron bulter for iggy
go ahead thro jjb n there to make it a fair trade

[tyronefly]

Originally Posted by clutch#41

its more like carlise needs to give him playing time.roddy has stepped up when allowed to play.

yea i think he deserve more plaing time

[Underdog]

[SMC0007]

Where is the vote for Gone Fishing?

By the time this bs Lebron and WAde fantasy craps the bed, Joe Johnson and Chris Kaman will be sooo HOT!

[Kidd Karma]

Chris Bosh, we should sell him he'll be the man after Dirk's done.