Amnesty Day redux

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

What lol? The Mavs are still over the cap. Finley's contract has gone nowhere. And even if it did the Mavs would still be over the cap and will still be paying the luxury tax. From the team perspective Fin's contract means nothing.

I don't claim to be a salary cap expert, and no offense intended, but I'm frankly not sure you have even a small clue -- the Mavericks as an organization saved about $50 million cash by waiving Finley under the amnesty provision -- they now have $50 million cash which they would not have otherwise had that they can spend resigning players like Howard and Terry. It's as simple as that.

If you don't understand that waiving Finley effectively freed up $50 million dollars to spend on other players down the road, then naturally you're not going see the benefit of waiving a vastly over-paid and relatively easily replaceable two-guard whose production last year was very comparable to that of Eddie Jones, Latrell Sprewell, or Jalen Rose.

I loved what Finley meant to the Mavs all those years, but the guy is next to done.
Finley had been on the market and there weren't any takers, there weren't any takers because it was a bad contract....the Mavericks got out of a bad contract while the gettin' was good.

Cuban et al had no way of knowing at the time that a) Finley would wind up with the Spurs; and b) the Mavs would meet the Spurs in the playoffs. So, you think mark cuban is wrecking the Mavericks....then who would you prefer???

Ross Perot Jr, maybe?

cheers

[MavsFanFinley]

I thought Cuban broke the news to Finley while in Mexico? I can't swear that was mentioned in his blog but it was mentioned in the stories that circulated around that time. This story says that his agent broke the news. I know it mentions that Finley knew a little bit about the amnesty deal but I wonder if that was from Cuban or from the players union?

And it also says the Mavs were not going to trade him because they weren't going to give up their leader that way. Either this story is bullshit or what the Mavs fed us during that time was.

From Mavs icon to Spurs reserve, Finley shows no bitterness

By JAIME ARON, AP Sports Writer
May 11, 2006

DALLAS (AP) -- Michael Finley happily expected to spend the rest of his career on the Dallas Mavericks. The Mavs didn't really have a choice considering the huge contract they gave him.

Then, last summer, along came the "amnesty clause," a one-time chance for teams to dump big salaries that was part of the NBA's new labor agreement.

Finley already knew a little about it when he went to Mexico for the wedding of the team's equipment manager. While there, his agent called to say Finley's days in Dallas were done.

"I was mentally prepared to see in the transactions that I was waived," Finley said.

Although it took longer than he would've liked -- from June all the way to the Aug. 15 deadline -- Finley got over the disappointment and realized how good he had it. Not only would he still get the $51 million the Mavs owed him, he'd get another paycheck from the team of his choice.

Wooed by Phoenix, Miami, Minnesota and Detroit, Finley picked Dallas' top rival, San Antonio. He gladly accepted a spot on the bench for a chance to be part of the defending champions.

This season, Finley helped the Spurs become the only Western Conference team to win more games than the Mavericks. Now, his new team and his old one are meeting in the second round of the playoffs.

Great chance to rub it in, right, Fin?

"It's easy for me to say yes," he said this week. "But there's no personal vendetta to go out and beat Dallas. I just want to be the last team standing at the end."

The series is tied 1-1 going into Game 3 Saturday night in Dallas. Finley is curious to hear the reception he gets.

"Well, I didn't do anything wrong, so I may get a few cheers," he said, smiling. "But I'm on the bad guys now, so I may get a few boos."

No longer smiling, he added: "I left because they didn't want me. Not because it was my choice."

To understand why it came to that, you have to know the whole story.

Finley was acquired the day after Christmas 1996. Fans were upset for the simple reason the Mavs traded Jason Kidd to get him.

In only his second season, Finley already was a rising star in Phoenix, but the breakup of the "Three Js" (Kidd, Jamal Mashburn and Jim Jackson) left the fans angry about another rebuilding try.

Surprise, surprise -- this one worked, at least once Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki arrived.

Together, the "Big Three" led Dallas into the second round of the playoffs in 2000, 13 years after the franchise's last postseason victory. In July 2001, with Finley coming off his second straight All-Star season, it seemed like a no-brainer when the club gave him a maximum length, maximum value contract.

But things changed quickly.

Seeing Nowitzki blossom, Finley let the German kid become the focal point of the offense, a move everyone in the organization appreciated. Still, Finley's scoring average dropped for five straight seasons and the former dunk contest participant grew way too comfortable standing around the 3-point line.

Age caught up to him another way: durability. His streak of 490 straight games, a span that included leading the league in minutes three times, ended in December '01. He then missed at least 10 games per season.

Public opinion shifted, too. The former fan favorite became an easy target, especially after coach Don Nelson took Finley to task for not rebounding -- while he was on the court.

The only way to trade him would've been to take on another bad contract, and the Mavs certainly weren't going to give up their longtime leader that way. Cutting him wasn't financially feasible.

The amnesty clause, which wiped out the contract's luxury tax burden, was the perfect solution.

So a year after the Mavs lost Nash in free agency, Finley was gone, too. Few hated it more than president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson, who was an assistant coach in Phoenix when Finley broke in and joined him in Dallas in 1998.

"Mike was one of the cornerstones of this franchise," Nelson said. "He carried us through a lot of years. What he did for this franchise and community will never be forgotten."

Spurs coach Gregg Popovich gave Finley no guarantees of playing time. Still, there obviously would be a plum role for someone who'd averaged 19 points for his career.

Backing up Manu Ginobili, Finley averaged 10.1 points and 26.5 minutes.

He scored 21 points the night he turned 33 and broke 20 six more times. San Antonio went 7-0 in those games. Finley also played in 77 games, his most since '01, and started 18.

"Michael has been beyond a pleasure," Popovich said. "He's obviously done well as a player, but his leadership -- his quiet leadership -- and example, his work ethic, his class in the locker room, they've all been great additions."

Finley said his biggest adjustment was figuring out when to speak up. Coaches told him to be more vocal, but with two years left on his contract, he's taken it slowly.

"I don't want to override the foundation that's already been set," he said.

Bruce Bowen says Finley's fitting in just fine, and that's saying something considering the source.

In March 2004, the pair had an on-court skirmish that resulted in Finley getting ejected. After Finley signed with the Spurs, they went to dinner; by dessert, they were happy to be on the same side.

"I think he's accepted (his role) and done a great job with it," Bowen said. "He has a lot of valuable knowledge to give to a lot of the younger players, as well as the older players."

The Spurs will arrive in Dallas on Friday afternoon. Finley still has a house in the area, but he won't be staying there.

"I'm staying with the team," he said. "I'm with the Spurs now."

[dude1394]

Just the breaks man. I've always understood the finley deal, I never felt it was good talent-wise at all, but financially you just have to take 50million, you just have to.

[Murphy3]

I did have an issue with it then only because the Mavs weren't getting anything in return for a pretty good player. But, in retrospect, I was wrong for questioning the move even in the slightest. I knew that he was probably unwilling to accept a greatly reduced role in Dallas. But, my concerns over that should have outweighed any of my reservations.

The Mavs are better off without Finley.

[Dtownsfinest]

Seeing Nowitzki blossom, Finley let the German kid become the focal point of the offense, a move everyone in the organization appreciated. Still, Finley's scoring average dropped for five straight seasons and the former dunk contest participant grew way too comfortable standing around the 3-point line.

"I left because they didn't want me. Not because it was my choice."

I think these two quotes dismiss the rumors made up by fans that Finley's departure was due to him not wanting to take a reduced role as a Mav. I think playing 26 minutes a game is further proof.

[chumdawg]

Yeah, I never did get that either, that Fin wouldn't have accepted a lesser role. Why not? He's doing it now, that's for sure.

My take has always been that Johnson needed to clear Finley out of the locker room in order to put his own stamp on the team. Johnson wasn't anywhere near experienced enough as a coach to be able to handle that kind of situation otherwise. In fact, Johnson may not have been able to pull off what he did if Dirk didn't have such a deferent personality.

[dude1394]

Sometimes it's just too damn uncomfortable for everyone to make a move like benching finely. With the sk*rts there really wasn't a choice. He could come off the bench or not play there. There wasn't quite an opportunity to "start over" within the mavs organization.

I obviously don't know the inside scoop but I can see this being the case.

[chumdawg]

Yeah, well, it was uncomfortable to bench Damp, too. Didn't keep it from happening.

[dude1394]

Not nearly the same thing chum. Damp wasn't like a leader of the team for the last x years or so.

Also finley didn't own AJ a dang thing like damp has.

[chumdawg]

Damp doesn't own AJ anything, either. When he was asked about that in interviews I heard, he bristled.

I think it's a fair comparison. And if anything, it was even MORE uncomfortable to bench Damp. Damp hadn't been taking a lesser role for five years on end. Damp was signed to a big contract just the summer before. Everyone would have understood why Finley would have taken a lesser role. When Damp was benched, everyone was left to believe that he was a failure in his role as starter. (AJ may have salved over this, but it remains a legitimate claim.)

I think it's interesting, the perhaps-Freudian slip you made in saying that Damp "owns" something to AJ, where Finley didn't. You were probably thinking that AJ "owns" Damp, and didn't own Finley, which I believe captures the situation quite nicely.

[WildArkieBoy]

I usually smile when I see Findog or The Quick enter the game. It usually means someone more effective like Parker or Ginobli is on the bench.

WAB

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Damp doesn't own AJ anything, either. When he was asked about that in interviews I heard, he bristled.

I think it's a fair comparison. And if anything, it was even MORE uncomfortable to bench Damp. Damp hadn't been taking a lesser role for five years on end. Damp was signed to a big contract just the summer before. Everyone would have understood why Finley would have taken a lesser role. When Damp was benched, everyone was left to believe that he was a failure in his role as starter. (AJ may have salved over this, but it remains a legitimate claim.)

I think it's interesting, the perhaps-Freudian slip you made in saying that Damp "owns" something to AJ, where Finley didn't. You were probably thinking that AJ "owns" Damp, and didn't own Finley, which I believe captures the situation quite nicely.

Well it's hard to claim freudian slip when I'm typing don't you thunk?

Point taken, maybe damp doesn't feel he owes AJ anything. Even if I discount that, dampier has no following in the lockerroom like finley does. I still contend that sitting mike down (amongst his peers) is more difficult than sitting dampier down (amongst his peers who probably agreed with it).

My point is and I'm sure you've seen issues where a guy in the room thinks he's more qualified than others. On the mavs that case can easily be made for fin and (griffin/stack). On the sk*rts it's not as easy a case as ginobbli has been more renowned than mike in the last championship run.

Mike knew going in that he was second fiddle, in dallas he was going to have to be convinced of it.

Again I don't know the inner-workings, but my take is staying on the mavs and being demoted would have been tougher than going to the sk*rts as second fiddle from the outset.

[dude1394]

I did think this a funny quote from dirk yesterday.

Boo Finley

Dirk Nowitzki said he had already grown accustomed to former teammate Michael Finley being with the Spurs after facing them four times in the regular season.

"It's obviously a little weird that he's not with us in this playoff run," Nowitzki said.

Nowitzki figures Finley's already received his warm reception from the fans at American Airlines Center, though.

"He had a great career here, left his heart out for this organization every night," Nowitzki said.

"But now it's playoff time. He got his cheers in the two regular-season games, so now it's about time to boo him."

OKAY THEN!

[EricaLubarsky]

boo!

[Murphy3]

Finley cried last year when he was asked to do the little things. I see no reason to believe that he would take a reduced role permanently with the Mavs.

And let's stop the B.S. about Fin just sliding over and letting Dirk take over the reigns or any other crap like that. He did so because there was no other somewhat logical choice for him. If it would have simply been a matter of him just sliding over and letting Dirk take over the role as the main offensive weapon, it actually would have happened sooner than it did. Fin didn't just slide over. There was a long stretch where Fin was still taking more shots even though it was apparent that he wasn't the best offensive option.

[MavsFanFinley]

Yes, boo him. That might just be the perfect thing to fire him up in Dallas.

[EricaLubarsky]

Im pretty sure he can't hear me from Phoenix. Nash maybe, but Finley probably not.

[Murphy3]

Don't boo Finley any more than what you'd do any Spurs player. He's just the opposition now..nothing more and nothing less. When he retires, that's something different entirely. But for now, he's a Spur.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Don't boo Finley any more than what you'd do any Spurs player. He's just the opposition now..nothing more and nothing less. When he retires, that's something different entirely. But for now, he's a Spur.

Actually now that I think about it, I probably will not "boo" him until/unless he's on the ft line. I only really boo players during intros, then I boo all of them, players, coaches, waterboys, all of 'em.

After that it's sort of a positive-only mentality except when it comes to specific plays and refereeing.

If he starts. he's getting booed.

[Dtownsfinest]

My take has always been that Johnson needed to clear Finley out of the locker room in order to put his own stamp on the team. Johnson wasn't anywhere near experienced enough as a coach to be able to handle that kind of situation otherwise. In fact, Johnson may not have been able to pull off what he did if Dirk didn't have such a deferent personality.

Agreed. I think it helped the Mavs feel better about hte departure. Had Fin still been here the younger guys probably would've relied on him too much sort of like the players did when AJ was a player and Nellie was coach.

Sometimes it's just too damn uncomfortable for everyone to make a move like benching finely. With the sk*rts there really wasn't a choice. He could come off the bench or not play there. There wasn't quite an opportunity to "start over" within the mavs organization.

Exactly. If Finley didn't want a reduced role he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs period. He could've signed with the Heat or Nuggets if being a starter was that important to him. It seems he would rather win.

I think it's a fair comparison. And if anything, it was even MORE uncomfortable to bench Damp. Damp hadn't been taking a lesser role for five years on end. Damp was signed to a big contract just the summer before. Everyone would have understood why Finley would have taken a lesser role. When Damp was benched, everyone was left to believe that he was a failure in his role as starter. (AJ may have salved over this, but it remains a legitimate claim.)

Especially since you have some fans out there who were pissed that the Mavs didn't resign Nash but signed Dampier for 10 million a year. Benching Damp could've started a uproar had Damp not been producing so effeciently.

Finley cried last year when he was asked to do the little things. I see no reason to believe that he would take a reduced role permanently with the Mavs.

Finley cried? When was this? I completely missed this part of last season. Finley was asked to do things he possibly couldn't do on a bum ankle. Why are fans making the Finley departure more than what it was? Cuban did it so save 51 million. Simple as that. Maybe if Fin played 82 games last season and was more consistent he would still be a Mav. But don't for one second think Fin was released because he wouldn't do the "little things" or because he was crying. Those are rumors made up by fans. Nothing more.

And let's stop the B.S. about Fin just sliding over and letting Dirk take over the reigns or any other crap like that. He did so because there was no other somewhat logical choice for him. If it would have simply been a matter of him just sliding over and letting Dirk take over the role as the main offensive weapon, it actually would have happened sooner than it did. Fin didn't just slide over. There was a long stretch where Fin was still taking more shots even though it was apparent that he wasn't the best offensive option.

Wow lol. The Finley hate runs deep it seems. Fin's attitude and leadership is what helped the progression of Dirk. What if Dirk stayed with the Bucks? Playing alongside Sam Cassell, Ray Allen and Glenn Robinson. Would Dirk be a MVP candidate? Its not bs. Because there were times when Fin took more shots than Dirk means nothing. Fin took the shots that were given to him. What? Was he suppose to pass up open shots so Dirk can get more shots? It was Nellie's job to get Dirk the amount of shots he needed. Not Finley's.


Boo Finley. When he enters the game I say give him a standing ovation for the last time. After that boo him. Yes, he is a Spur but don't boo him because of rumors stirred up by Maverick fans.

[bernardos70]

The boobirds should go to the whole spurts squad.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by bernardos70

The boobirds should go to the whole spurts squad.

I'm aheading over I guess. I don't know about you, but I'll be there a'booing.

[kriD]

Finley wanted better ending with Mavs

By DWAIN PRICE
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

SAN ANTONIO - At the end of the day, when he allows time for reflection, Michael Finley's feelings were hurt that the Mavericks no longer wanted him to be part of their team.

"I was hurt for a couple of reasons," Finley said. "One, because I knew I was leaving a team that was on the verge of being a pretty good team. And, two, when you get to the point where you're comfortable with a situation of family and friends, it's tough to leave that. Especially when you haven't been, quote-unquote, a problem."

Before Dirk Nowitzki and Steve Nash joined the Mavs in 1998, Finley was the face of the franchise for about 18 months. And while Nowitzki and Nash were learning their way around Dallas, Finley became a two-time All-Star.

But none of that mattered last summer when the Mavs used the NBA's new amnesty clause to waive Finley, who later signed a free-agent contract with the San Antonio Spurs. The Mavs and Spurs are tied 1-1 in their best-of-seven Western Conference semifinal series, which resumes at 7 tonight at American Airlines Center.

Finley was the first building block the Mavs used to return to respectability. He wanted to be around when they finally won an NBA championship, but that won't happen.

"A lot of people can say I helped build it, but we didn't win anything," Finley said. "So from that standpoint, it's understandable why you want to make changes, because we never won the big thing, and we never advanced as far as we should have, maybe, some years in the playoffs.

"From a fan's perspective, they may think that it was time for a change."

Finley made two appearances in Dallas with the Spurs earlier this season to a warm reception from the Mavs' fans. But the stakes are higher now.

"I haven't done anything wrong, so I may get a few cheers," Finley said. "But I'm one of the bad guys now, so I may get a few boos. But I left [the Mavs] because they didn't want me, not because it was my choice."

Finley was with the Mavs when they lost to the Spurs in five games in the 2001 conference semifinals, and in six games in the 2003 conference finals. He spent 8 1/2 seasons in Dallas, and some are still getting accustomed to seeing him wear the Spurs' silver-and-black.

"At the beginning, it was real weird," Mavs owner Mark Cuban said. "But like I told Mike after our very first game, if we don't win it [all], I hope he does."

With the Spurs, Finley is trying to adjust to a new role -- coming in off the bench for the first time since early in his second season with the Phoenix Suns. He averaged a career-low 10.4 points and shot a career-low 41.2 percent from the field this season in 26.5 minutes per game, and his scoring average decreased for the sixth consecutive season.

But the Spurs believe Finley's experience more than offsets his diminishing production.

"With less minutes he's doing great for us," Spurs guard Manu Ginobili said. "He's the type of player we needed. Of course, it was awkward for him [at the beginning]. But we can't say that it took him awhile because he had great games from the beginning."

Finley was the vocal and emotional leader for the Mavs. With the Spurs, that role belongs to Tim Duncan.

"In Dallas I had the leeway to speak up in huddles, speak up in timeouts, and the guys pretty much respected what I said," Finley said. "Here, the respect is still there, but I don't want to override some of the leadership that's already been here."

He also doesn't want to lose this series to the Mavs.

"It's no personal vendetta to go out and defeat Dallas," Finley said. "I got rid of that last summer. I just want to be the last team standing at the end."

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I did have an issue with it then only because the Mavs weren't getting anything in return for a pretty good player. But, in retrospect, I was wrong for questioning the move even in the slightest. I knew that he was probably unwilling to accept a greatly reduced role in Dallas. But, my concerns over that should have outweighed any of my reservations.

An absolute crock of crap. Finley only stated that he didn't want to come off the bench for players who weren't BETTER than him. If there was a better player, then start him. But if there wasn't then Finley believed that he should start. And why not? Shouldn't someone have to TAKE your job, rather than you just GIVE it to them?

Howard is a better 3 and he was the starter. But Stackhouse isn't BETTER than Finley (different but not better). Daniels certainly isn't better. Griffin wasn't on the team but he certainly isn't better (why else would EVERY team who was in the conference Finals last year want Finley yet Griffin was on his couch AFTER the season started).

None of them are better than Finley so why should they have his job?

The Mavs are better off without Finley.

Totally agree. Avery is more comfortable without Finley here and he is FAR more important to the franchise than an aging shooting guard.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by MFFL

An absolute crock of crap. Finley only stated that he didn't want to come off the bench for players who weren't BETTER than him. If there was a better player, then start him. But if there wasn't then Finley believed that he should start. And why not? Shouldn't someone have to TAKE your job, rather than you just GIVE it to them?

Howard is a better 3 and he was the starter. But Stackhouse isn't BETTER than Finley (different but not better). Daniels certainly isn't better. Griffin wasn't on the team but he certainly isn't better (why else would EVERY team who was in the conference Finals last year want Finley yet Griffin was on his couch AFTER the season started).

None of them are better than Finley so why should they have his job?



Totally agree. Avery is more comfortable without Finley here and he is FAR more important to the franchise than an aging shooting guard.

However if you wanted a defensive guy either christie or griffin would have been better. What would mike has said about that one?

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by dude1394

However if you wanted a defensive guy either christie or griffin would have been better. What would mike has said about that one?

I don't know and neither does anyone else. We didn't have that kind of player on the roster last year.