Official Rangers off season thread - Page 17 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 03-17-2011, 11:47 AM

I cannot imagine Davis and Napoli on the major league roster unless Young or Moreland are moved. Moreland's not going anywhere.. Young probably isn't either. Napoli's a lock to make the roster.. Davis is going down to AAA.

jthig32 · 03-17-2011, 01:43 PM

Yep. Barring injury, the roster is set as far as position players is concerned. There is no spot for Davis to earn.

Murphy3 · 03-17-2011, 02:41 PM

There wasn't a spot open for anyone to earn going in to spring training. The position players were as close to 100% set as possible.

dalmations202 · 03-17-2011, 04:20 PM

I kind of think that was what Davis figured out as well -- that it didn't matter what he did this time --- he didn't have a position. Maybe that is why he spoke out.

Somehow which ever way the Rangers go -- I think it will bite them in the backside.

<edit>
Cool Read
http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/03...potential.html

Male30Dan · 03-17-2011, 11:26 PM

I am sorry, but I am beginning to strongly believe that those that feel Borbon is a better CF than Hamilton are not just stupid but are GD fools.

That is all.

dalmations202 · 03-18-2011, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

I am sorry, but I am beginning to strongly believe that those that feel Borbon is a better CF than Hamilton are not just stupid but are GD fools.

That is all.

after last night..........agreed

Borbon does not look fluid at all.

mkat · 03-18-2011, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

I am sorry, but I am beginning to strongly believe that those that feel Borbon is a better CF than Hamilton are not just stupid but are GD fools.

That is all.

I don't think there are many saying that Borbon is a *better* CF than Hamilton, it's just that Hamilton can't be out there because of his frequent injuries. It wouldn't surprise me to see them make some kind of trade for a guy. Not a big name, but someone that's a bit more established in that role.

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 08:26 AM

I didn't see any of last night's game, but he's definitely had a rough spring defensively by most accounts.

Doesn't really change the fact that Borbon was quite good defensively last year, and I expect more of the same this year, if he can get the bat going enough to stay on the field.

It IS getting to the point this spring that I'm slightly concerned that he has something going on mentally.

Murphy3 · 03-18-2011, 08:52 AM

I've never thought Borbon was better in CF than Hamilton.. not at all. Yes, Borbon covers a little bit more ground, but Hamilton's arm is significantly better. The idea of having Borbon in center has much more to do with Hamilton's tendency to get injured at that position... Management feels that the left field position is a place in which he's less likely to get injured.

With that being said, I thought Borbon did a solid job in CF last year. This spring, he has been garbage. And of course, as I type all of this, I see MKat's response..so, just read what he wrote.

Anyways, Borbon could be playing his way off of the major league roster. I wouldn't mind..perhaps it would open up a door for Davis to earn a spot.. but then you'd have 5 guys on the roster capable of playing 1st base...

Murphy3 · 03-18-2011, 09:17 AM

With Chris Davis..trust me, I hope he makes the roster. He's probably my favorite Rangers player right now. Perhaps Borbon can play his way off the roster.....

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

With Chris Davis..trust me, I hope he makes the roster. He's probably my favorite Rangers player right now. Perhaps Borbon can play his way off the roster.....

You still need a backup CF capable of playing significant time there, even if you decide to roll with Hamilton in CF. And Murphy isn't that guy.

So Borbon would have to be replaced by some other CF option.

Only way for Davis to make the roster for an extended period of time is injury, sending Moreland down, or trading Young.

I think you know all this though.

Murphy3 · 03-18-2011, 10:10 AM

I don't think you have to have a backup CF on the roster.. Murphy can play that position in a pinch as can Cruz (yes, I know that it's not ideal, but it wouldn't be the first time that a team didn't have a true back up CF...not at all). What you have to have is a backup CF in the organization that can come up right away when needed.

What would have to happen would be the Rangers committing to using Hamilton at CF. Hamilton would be great with that...But, the organization would like to not use him in CF if at all possible.

And yes, I know that this was your point.. and you are right.. This is why I posted:

"I cannot imagine Davis and Napoli on the major league roster unless Young or Moreland are moved. Moreland's not going anywhere.. Young probably isn't either. Napoli's a lock to make the roster.. Davis is going down to AAA."

With that being said, Borbon could cause the team to move Hamilton back to center full time. I don't have a huge issue with not having a center fielder on the roster besides Hamilton. I'm ok with what Murphy would do in CF. No, it's not great, but it would work good enough to give Josh the occasional day off from CF.

Will all of this happen before the end of spring training? I seriously doubt it. Will all of this happen at some point during the season? Well, I expect Borbon to lose his job in center. What they do from that point, I don't know. You'd have to be comfortable with someone else on the roster playing an OF spot. You don't want only 3 OF's on the roster obviously. And obviously, here's the problem. You'd have to replace Borbon with someone else capable of playing in the OF unless you thought Moreland could handle the left field spot with Davis at first. I haven't seen much of Moreland in the OF, but no, I don't see that happening.

So, the obvious solution would be to let Davis or Young learn to play the left field spot.

In conclusion.. it's not looking good for Davis to start the season at the major league level.

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 10:27 AM

Well first of all, I think the organization views Murphy as an emergencies-only CF. If he was passable in CF he would have played there more last season, because the lineup was obviously much better with him in it over Borbon.

Secondly, and most importantly, I'm sure that Hamilton is going to get more than an occasional day off, no matter what position he plays. I would think that they want to get him out of the field at least once every two weeks, and probably a bit more often than that. If they moved him to center, I would think that they'd try to get him a game at DH almost every week. And there'd be road series, like the one in Toronto, where they'd probably DH him at least two games in a three game series, maybe more.

Remember with Josh, it's not just the crashing into walls, it's also the knee issues, and there's a lot more running in center.

I wouldn't be hoping for Borbon to play himself off the roster, myself. I'd be hoping that he reaches something close to his potential, because this team will benefit greatly if he does.

Murphy3 · 03-18-2011, 11:30 AM

Again, as I said in synopsis, I don't think things are going to work out to where Davis can be on the roster to start the season..

And no, I"m not wishing for failure for Borbon. But, I do expect him to lose his position. There's a big difference between what I want and what my expectations are..

And yeah, I don't know that the Rangers want Hamilton in center..but I also don't know what the options are going to be once Borbon loses his spot.

dalmations202 · 03-18-2011, 11:41 AM

As CD hits the slam last night.

What more do they want him to do?

Murphy3 · 03-18-2011, 12:08 PM

There's really not much more that he can do. He can play three positions:
1. First base - The Rangers are going to give Moreland a shot there. He looked good last year.. great in the playoffs.. and good this spring.
2. Third Base - Adrian Beltre
3. DH - Michael Young

Where do you think the Rangers should put Davis?

dalmations202 · 03-18-2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

There's really not much more that he can do. He can play three positions:
1. First base - The Rangers are going to give Moreland a shot there. He looked good last year.. great in the playoffs.. and good this spring.
2. Third Base - Adrian Beltre
3. DH - Michael Young

Where do you think the Rangers should put Davis?

Personally I think Davis and Moreland should battle it out for 1st instead of trying to get MY his bats in there. I love MY, but the more I watch, the more I realize that he is past his prime, and his upside is now downside.

CD's defense seems to me to be better than MY and MM's. His potential at the plate is huge. The question is "can he live up to the potential?".

IMO, he has done all he can this spring training -- his inability to "get it" sooner may cost him. It also may cost the Rangers when he leaves.

Then again, he may flame totally out and just be a waste -- or he may be another Adrian Gonzalez.

Either way, IMO, he is a better prospect than most and somehow they need to actually find out if he is for real, or just showing "pre-season" gusto.

If CD was the corner infield backup and Moreland an OF backup as well -- maybe you would have time to really find out. As it sits -- basically no one is happy -- MY isn't, CD isn't, and I am guessing that Napoli and Moreland don't like the situation either. Hard choices, but CD seems to have the biggest upside to them all, so I think the chain should be a little longer on him -- much like it was with Nellie Cruz and CJ Wilson for that matter.

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 04:03 PM

I would imagine Moreland is pretty damn happy with the situation.

Davis has had his chances and hasn't produced. Let him mash in AAA (like Nellie did) and wait for another chance. It will come.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 09:09 PM

Elvis just hit a friggin home run...

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Elvis just hit a friggin home run...

It wasn't some cheapy either. He put a charge into it.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

It wasn't some cheapy either. He put a charge into it.

Definitely - did you see Wash after he hit it... Ha - funny stuff.

In other news (and despite his unfortunate error that otherwise would have saved a run) Davis keeps on hitting.

Murphy3 · 03-18-2011, 10:33 PM

Davis is actually younger than Moreland. This is far from decided.. Yes, Moreland will get his shot to start the season. I hope he takes advantage of this shot.. With that being said, Davis may be on the roster to fill some other void sooner rather than later. It's a long season, and Davis is very likely to get another shot here in a Rangers uniform. It's just going to take some patience on his part.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Davis is actually younger than Moreland. This is far from decided.. Yes, Moreland will get his shot to start the season. I hope he takes advantage of this shot.. With that being said, Davis may be on the roster to fill some other void sooner rather than later. It's a long season, and Davis is very likely to get another shot here in a Rangers uniform. It's just going to take some patience on his part.

It appears you are a huge fan of Davis and I think mostly everyone here knows I love the guy and always have (WOW HUGE HR BY MURPHY THERE BTW). With that said, do you think there is a case to be made for trading high on him while hoping he doesn't pull an AGon or even a Hafner?

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 10:56 PM

I don't think trading him now would be trading high. He tore up Spring Training last year too. I can't imagine that he's drawing nice offers. I'm sure he's drawing a ton of offers, just like it's been reported, but for anything of any real substance? I doubt it.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 10:57 PM

By the way - Rhadigan really does suck at his new job. Seriously.

Earlier tonight a pitch was fouled and dude says "...And he swings and misses....................fouls it off" only to just now ask "...did he get enough of it?" on an absolute BLAST by Murphy (a homerun that from sound alone a blind man knew was gone).

P.S. Those are not the only two examples in case you were wondering. It's early and it is a heck of a transition so hopefully for all of our sakes he improves greatly over the first couple of months. I can't imagine gearing up for a playoff run still listening to this garbage.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't think trading him now would be trading high. He tore up Spring Training last year too. I can't imagine that he's drawing nice offers. I'm sure he's drawing a ton of offers, just like it's been reported, but for anything of any real substance? I doubt it.

Let me rephrase... Trading as high as you can on him. You either trade him now while he is a pleasant unknown or roll the dice and play him at the MLB level. Ultimately he either plays well and you keep him or he plays poorly and his offers decrease. Sending him to AAA and having him tear it up there doesn't really improve his value because he has done that too. At least here he is hitting MLB-level talent (just ask Bell).

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 10:59 PM

Yeah, he's been really bad. I want to give him fair shake, because he's by all accounts a really, really nice guy, and I enjoy him on the radio at times, but he's really, really raw right now.

And "saddle up baseball" is just awful.

I wasn't real high on Lewin, but so far his replacement has not gone well.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Yeah, he's been really bad. I want to give him fair shake, because he's by all accounts a really, really nice guy, and I enjoy him on the radio at times, but he's really, really raw right now.

And "saddle up baseball" is just awful.

I wasn't real high on Lewin, but so far his replacement has not gone well.

Yeah - same here on wanting the guy to have success... Hopefully he can learn the nuances of this new gig. But man - hurry the hell up. I feel like muting this shit sometimes.

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Let me rephrase... Trading as high as you can on him. You either trade him now while he is a pleasant unknown or roll the dice and play him at the MLB level. Ultimately he either plays well and you keep him or he plays poorly and his offers decrease. Sending him to AAA and having him tear it up there doesn't really improve his value because he has done that too. At least here he is hitting MLB-level talent (just ask Bell).

Yeah, I wouldn't mind too much if they did that.

My preference, though, would just be to ride it out the whole season and see if an opportunity opens up for him on the ML roster, so you can give him one last shot in a Ranger uniform.

I still think there's a decent chance that Young is traded before his 10/5 rights kick in (sometime in May I believe), which would be an opening for Davis.

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Yeah - same here on wanting the guy to have success... Hopefully he can learn the nuances of this new gig. But man - hurry the hell up. I feel like muting this shit sometimes.

Have you had much occasion to hear Barnett on the radio at all? If not, get ready. He is worse. He's the worst professional radio announcer I've ever heard.

Ironically he's not terrible on tv, because he's not responsible for painting the picture (which he just flat out can't do). He might have been a better choice than Rhads on tv.....

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Yeah, I wouldn't mind too much if they did that.

My preference, though, would just be to ride it out the whole season and see if an opportunity opens up for him on the ML roster, so you can give him one last shot in a Ranger uniform.

I still think there's a decent chance that Young is traded before his 10/5 rights kick in (sometime in May I believe), which would be an opening for Davis.

Oh man that would be great to me... Absolute ideal scenario given our current situation? Trade Young for a closer so that Feliz can be in the rotation and open a spot for Davis with the Young trade. This helps you get a younger more talented 1B in here in Davis (in my opinion anyway). You improve the defense that much more and have Napoli play 1B/C/DH and Moreland play DH/1B/COF. I think Davis has turned the corner like Cruz did a few years back - I sure hope we don't let another stud 1B get away due to not having enough patience.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Have you had much occasion to hear Barnett on the radio at all? If not, get ready. He is worse. He's the worst professional radio announcer I've ever heard.

Ironically he's not terrible on tv, because he's not responsible for painting the picture (which he just flat out can't do). He might have been a better choice than Rhads on tv.....

No I haven't - thanks for the warning though. I will make sure I am planted firmly in front of the TV come time for a Rangers game.

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

No I haven't - thanks for the warning though. I will make sure I am planted firmly in front of the TV come time for a Rangers game.

Well thankfully Nadel is awesome, so it does offset.

Man I wish Nadel and Grieve could work together.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 11:11 PM

Sigh... Good job Borbon.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 11:12 PM

EXACTLY RHADIGAN - Listen and learn from Grieve... He had no issue catching it - he slowed down for fear of hitting the wall... You know, something Hamilton never does. Like I said so many times before - he has the range, but has no idea how to make the difficult catch.

Basically he is a helluva athlete that is trying to learn to play defense. He is not a great defensive outfielder.

chumdawg · 03-18-2011, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Have you had much occasion to hear Barnett on the radio at all? If not, get ready. He is worse. He's the worst professional radio announcer I've ever heard.

Ironically he's not terrible on tv, because he's not responsible for painting the picture (which he just flat out can't do). He might have been a better choice than Rhads on tv.....

Is this Dave Barnett you are talking about? Dude is a seasoned pro.

Then again, Brad Sham is also a seasoned pro. He's the worst I've ever heard, in terms of filling you in on what happened. Like this: "...Romo...Bryant!...touchdown!!"

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

EXACTLY RHADIGAN - Listen and learn from Grieve... He had no issue catching it - he slowed down for fear of hitting the wall... You know, something Hamilton never does. Like I said so many times before - he has the range, but has no idea how to make the difficult catch.

Basically he is a helluva athlete that is trying to learn to play defense. He is not a great defensive outfielder.

He was a really good defender last year. He does seem to have the yips or something this spring; it's concerning.

Although I'm not real concerned about him not wanting to crash into the wall during spring training (I didn't see the play, so going off what you said).

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 11:17 PM

First poor at bat I have seen in a while from Davis.

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Is this Dave Barnett you are talking about? Dude is a seasoned pro.

Then again, Brad Sham is also a seasoned pro. He's the worst I've ever heard, in terms of filling you in on what happened. Like this: "...Romo...Bryant!...touchdown!!"

Barnett is a good basketball announcer. He is absolutely horrendous as a radio baseball announcer. Just awful. You never have any idea what's going on when he's announcing, and when he DOES try to relay info he's often corrected by Nadel.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

He was a really good defender last year. He does seem to have the yips or something this spring; it's concerning.

Although I'm not real concerned about him not wanting to crash into the wall during spring training (I didn't see the play, so going off what you said).

You know me - I am an asshole typically.

That said, completely not trying to be that at all here, is it possible that he simply covered a lot of ground and didn't drop balls that he made it to so therefore seemed to be a really good defender when the truth of the matter is that he was just a really fast guy?

He takes poor angles from what I see, slows up when he should be sprinting, and puts himself in situations where he has to react REALLY fast to make up for his poor angles and decrease in speed. What that leads me to think is that, in general, he probably had those same traits most of last year and they didn't burn him while he has been fairly unlucky with balls hit just far enough that his issues are more noticeable at this current moment.

Just a thought.