Mavs Trade Rumor

[Joe Joe]

Saw on ESPN where the Mavs are really trying to get Jalen Rose. I do not know who is involved or for whom, but they reported the Mavs were trying to get him.

[MavsFanFinley]

On NBA2Nite, David Aldridge was saying that the Pacers are trying to move Jalen Rose and that we want him BAD! We're trying to get him, but names are not really solid just yet and that the rumored 3-team involving Denver isn't really happening. That Howard is NOT involved in the talks right now but when it gets closer to the deadline, who knows?

If we do something straight up with the Pacers, I imagine, Harvey and Najera are involved, our first rounder and cash, some combo of the above mentioned.

[madape]

If I remember, Rose has a monster maxed-out contract similar to Finley's. I can't see how we can get the deal done without trading one of our big four. If the rumor is true, and Howard is not involved, I'm guessing Finley has a big target mark right on his head. Rose would fit in so much better on this team IMO. He can score almost as well as Finley, but most importantly is that he can handle the ball and distribute. He would certainly be able to play the Mav's uptempo style. He could play the two when nash is on the floor, and play the one when Nash is out. I've been wondering if Nelson would try to pick up a scoring two-guard that could play the point. This could be the guy. I would be perfectly fine in trading Finley for Rose, especially if another young PF prospect I love is involved, Jeff Foster.

[MavsFanFinley]

The Bulls are wanting Jeff Foster (Pacers would like to get Oakley), but DA said that none of the young guys are on the market...meaning, no Foster, Harrington (even though he's injured) Bender or O'Neal.

DA said something about the Pacers not wanting big contracts in return...so that would not include Finley, I wouldn't think.

Also, you say Rose has a contract similiar to Fin's? I forget all the technical speak, but if he's a BYC1 like Fin, can they swap them straight up? I thought there was something about only taking half the salaries back or something like that??

[ocelot_ark]

I'd offer them Finley and Harvey for Rose and Bender. Start there and if they decline, oh well...downgrade to Foster->Crosher and so on.

I'd love to get Bender though. He's a legit Garnett clone. He shoots well enough, but jeez, he's probably top 5 in the league in terms of athleticism. We desperately need some of that.

Nash/Tim
Rose/Buck/Newman
Griff/Najera
Dirk/Wang/Bender
Juwan/Bradley

For now that's just as good as we are currently. But in a year or two...

Nash/Bell
Rose/draft pick/Buck
Dirk/Najera/Griff
Bender/Juwan
Duncan/Bradley

A guy can dream can't he?

[TheKid]

I wouldn't want Rose. He was a problem in Denver and he has been playing very well the past two years in Indiana and they STILL want to trade him, that says to me there's an attitude problem or something of that nature is wrong. Also, I don't think Rose would fit in this system well because the Mavs like to run, Rose likes to get the ball and lull his opponent.

Bender on the other hand I would like.

[madape]

RealGM says that Finley is a BYC1 player with a trade kicker, and Rose is a BYC2 player.

[TheKid]

Could someone explain to me the difference?

[dolemite220]

I'm tired of this BS. Every one talking about "I wouldn't mind trading Fin for Jalen". Fin is the MAVERICKS. Just because he has not been shooting lights out like we are accustomed to seeing, every one is ready to trade him. Just because when he was out we only lost one game. Do you really think having Fin on our team is hurting us. Get a life. We are going to need him come playoff time. It seems every one conveniently forgot that last year during the first round of the playoffs that the only reason the team advanced was because Fin got them there. That's right not Dirk, not Nash, not any one else. It was MICHAEL FINLEY! Trading this guy is the worst possible move the Mavs can make.

As far as Juwon Howard is concerned. Every one is talking about trading him. What is wrong with the guy. Is it just me or has any one else noticed just how much better ball this guy has been playing since he was inserted back into the starting lineup.

I know every one is talking "What about when the playoffs start. Juwon can't contain Duncan." Can anyone contain Duncan? NO! Time, after time, after time, I see this guy come up with a defensive of offensive rebound when we need it most. Not to mention the guy has been shooting lights out.

I don't think the Mavs need to do anything major right now. I truly feel that we need to just Get Wang to toughen up, get Bradley back to where he was last year and we will be alright. We are a much more improved ball club than last year. We just need to get our big men to step it up a little. I like our chances with the guys we have on our roster right now

I would like to hear any comments about what I wrote about.

[TheKid]

Dolemite, no need to get bothered because the reality is Fin isn't going anywhere. I think people got very excited about the way the team played without Fin and all of a sudden they thought the team could go deep into the playoffs without him. Well I think that's SOME fans, not the majority of them. I don't think there are any fans who has REALLY watched this team and thinks someone is going to come in for Fin and this team will still be on the same level they are on now.

What people fail to recognize is that 12 games played without Fin, only two of those teams had winning records at the time and we lost to one of them.

There are so many things that other players probably do better than Fin but there are MANY more things that Fin gives to this team that I just don't see anyone coming in here giving the team. I've stood by this statement and I will stand by it, the ONLY way I would be in agreement with a trade for Fin is if it's going to be a BIG CALIBER power forward or center here, otherwise there's no way in the world I would agree to it. That's why that Jalen Rose thing is a joke, there is no way in hell the Mavericks would pull the trigger on that, it would have to be some other things going on to do that. So I don't think you have to worry right now, it's all talks and people are just saying what they think but it's not going to happen, IMO.

Juwan has been playing much better and it does give the team another option, you just hope he continues at that level. However Wang and Bradley, we need more beef upfront. Maybe Esch might be the answer to that without pulling the trigger on a trade but we'll see what happens.

[LandoCaly]

I completely agree with Dolemite. This "trade Finley" talk is crazy. Can you imagine the "trust" factor of the Mavs after something like this went down:

Finley was the only good player on the team for years.
He signed his first good contract because he had faith in Nellie.
The only guys that Nellie brought in at that point were Bradley and Pack.
Finley carried the team while Nash and Nowitski were booed and questioned while developing.
Finley led the team to it's first playoffs in eleven years.
Finley signed a huge contract without even shopping himself around.
The chemistry of this team is near-perfect.
The hot trade talk is for a guy who's complained for years.
Jalen Rose would have to share the offense with Dirk (#1 option) and Nash (#2 or #2a).

On paper this trade looks good. In the lockerroom this trade could blow up in Nellie's face just like the last trade he made at Golden State.

[LandoCaly]

One more point. If Jalen Rose is brought in here, Juwan Howard becomes untradeable because now if you trade his boy Howard, Rose will definitely erupt like Mount Saint Helens.

[MavsFanFinley]

Dolemite:

I don't think there's a person on this board that wants Finley traded just to trade him. Hell, I don't. I've never made a secret of that either. I know some are of the belief that if we could get a big man for Fin, then they'd do it. No biggie.

I really doubt Cuban or Nelson would trade him though, not after what he's been through here.

I was responding to Madape and asking what the purpose of trading Fin for Rose--straight up--would accomplish, assuming it could be done under the rules?

I was corrected on another board, DA said that the Nuggets, Pacers and us are working on a 3-team and Howard would be involved in that if it happens. At this poing though, the Mavs are just trying to work with the Pacers on getting Rose.

Which means, Im thinking, that Harvey, Najera, possibly Griffin, cash and our #1 (some combo of that) would be what gets us Rose.

Interesting that we want Rose that "BAD" as DA said last night.

[madape]

Dolemite's response is typical. Finley gave the Mavericks years worth of great play. He put up great numbers on a bad team for several years. However, he is no more "The Mavericks" than Troy Aikman was "The Cowboys". There was a time for the Cowboys to end their relationship with Troy. There will also be a time for the Mavericks to end their relationsip with Michael. I'm not saying that time is now, but I'm not going to close my eyes and put my fingers in my ears when a legitimate trade offer comes up. The fact is, that despite what 95% of Mavericks fans think, Finley is not an elite player in this league. He may not even be one of the two best players on his team anymore. He's got serious deficiencies in defense, rebounding, ball-handling, and ball distribution. He doesn't drive to the basket any-more, instead he relies on a slightly above average outsite shot.

On the other hand, Rose is a special player. It is hard to find a guy of his size with the point guard type skills he has. Over the last couple of years, he's really turned it on, turning all that talent into production. He's become one of the best unheralded players in the league. The stats don't lie: minute per minute, his stats are similar, if not better all-around than Finley. He'd be a great for the Mavs. Just think about the matchup problems Nellie could create with Rose. It seems a perfect fit.

That being said, I don't want to see Finley go. The way he has accepted his new role on the team is remarkable. He's got the total team attitude, and the contribution he makes to the chemistry here is undeniable. He has been the heart and sole of the Mavs for years. However, I don't think the Mavs have any obligation to repay him more than they already have. I don't have any problem trading him if it means improving the team.

[madape]

Which means, Im thinking, that Harvey, Najera, possibly Griffin, cash and our #1 (some combo of that) would be what gets us Rose.

I don't know, I would think we'd have to throw in a big fish to get the salaries to match. The Mavs just don't have very many supporting players with salaries big enough to get the deal done without one. Try out some scenarios on realgm and see. I also think that Howard must not be involved. It just wouldn't make much sense for the Mavs to trade really their only big post player for another guard, unless they got a big man of comparable quality back. To me, that leaves a possibility of either Nash and an assortment of players, or Finley almost straight up. Finley seems the more likely candidate.

[TheKid]

Madape you hit the nail on the HEAD!! He's a team player and Rose is NOT! He's always been more concerned about personal stats than team goals, but hey if you think that's what the Mavericks need then that's your opinion. Granted Fin does have some problems on defense and ball handling but everything he lacks in those areas he makes up for in hustle, something Rose does NOT do as well as Finley. Also, if you don't think Finley drives enough then you haven't watched Rose play often. Rose does have a great handle and he can cause many mismatches as a result (that's why he goes to the free throw line so much from posting smaller players up). Also if you think Fin is not one of the elite in the NBA, where does Rose rank? He has arguably a better jumpshot than fin and can handle the ball better and that's IT, however you think he would be a better fit for this team than Rose?

[dragonsnake]

Base year compensation (BYC) prevents salary cap loophole. Without BYC, a team over the salary cap that wants to trade a player, but can't because of the assigned player exception (which says teams can receive no more than 115% of the salary they trade away), could just sign the player to a new contract that fits within the desired range, then do the trade. BYC says "if you re-sign a player and give him a big raise, then for a period of time his trade value will be lower than his actual salary."

BYC defines the salary that's used to compare players for compliance under the assigned player exception. Usually, the salary used for comparison is the player's actual salary. But under either of the following circumstances, a different salary is used when comparing salaries for trading purposes:

The team is over the salary cap, they had Larry Bird or Early Bird rights to re-sign the player, and the player received a raise greater than 20%. (Note that they do not have to actually use the Larry Bird or Early Bird exception to re-sign the player.)

The team is over the salary cap, it extended the rookie scale contract of the player, and the player received a raise greater than 20%.
If either of the above apply, then the player is considered a base year player. A player remains a base year player for two years (one year if the contract is signed on or after July 1, 2001). When trading a base year player, the salary used for comparison is defined as follows:

Contract signed First year BYC Second year BYC
Before July 1, 2001 Previous year's salary or 50% of first-year salary in new contract* 120% of the salary in the last year of the previous contract or 75% of the second-year salary in new contract*

After July 1, 2001 or later Previous year's salary or 50% of first-year salary in new contract* N/A
Whichever is greater

Here is an example of a BYC calculation: A player earned $2 million in 99-00, after which he became a free agent. Prior to the start of the 00-01 season, he signs a new contract (re-signing with his previous team, which is over the salary cap) starting at $9 million. This player qualifies for BYC, so his trade value is the greater of his previous salary ($2 million) or 50% of his new salary ($4.5 million), or $4.5 million. So this player, who actually earns $9 million, is worth $4.5 million for trading purposes.

When comparing salaries for trade, teams use their own player's BYC value and the other player's full salary, even if the other player is also BYC. Here is a simple example -- two $5 million players, both of whom are re-signed (by teams over the cap) for $10 million. Both players become base year players whose base year amount is $5 million (50% of the new salary). If the teams want to trade these players for each other they compare their player's base year amount to the other player's full salary. So each team can take back a maximum of 115% plus $100,000 of their player's $5 million base year amount, or $5.85 million. They compare $5.85 million to the other player's full $10 million. $10 million is way too high, so this trade can't be done, even though the players' actual salaries match exactly.

If one of the teams in the above example was below the cap, the trade still couldn't be done. For the team under the cap, their player would NOT be BYC, so they would be comparing $10 million to $10 million. But since the other team is over the cap, their player is BYC, and they'd still be comparing $5.85 million to $10 million, which prevents the trade from working. (See question number 68 for more information about trading BYC players.)

For Larry Bird or Early Bird players, the player's BYC begins on the date he signs his contract. For extended rookie scale contracts, the player's BYC begins on the July 1 preceding the first season of the extension. For example, if an extension of a rookie scale contract is signed on 10/30/99, his BYC begins on 7/1/00, because the first season of the extension is 00-01. If a team tries to trade an extended rookie between the date his extension is signed and the date it takes effect, his "trade value" for the receiving team is the average of the salaries in the last year of the scale contract and each year of the extension. This is called the "poison pill provision."

A player's BYC goes away if the team falls below the salary cap, the player signs with a different team, or the player is traded.

There is an interesting twist to base year compensation caused by the 1998 lockout. Since the start of the 98-99 season was delayed, contracts signed prior to the 98-99 season were signed in February 1999. The duration of BYC is specified in calendar years and not seasons, so for contracts signed in February 1999, the BYC amount changes in February 2000, which is in the middle of the 99-00 season. It then goes away in February 2001, which is in the middle of the 00-01 season. So for these players, in addition to the mid-year change, BYC lasts into the third season of their contracts.

Don't worry if BYC seems way too complicated -- everybody, the media included, seems to get it wrong. Further complicating matters, the formula used for calculating a player's BYC changed with the current CBA Just know that a large percentage of trade rumors from "reliable sources" are simply not possible because of the BYC rule.

Please read this article carefully and Finely lover won't worry about the trade of finely!
After you read this article, you guys know that although Finely and Rose make similar amount of money, the trade cannot be done if we want to exchange Finely for Rose directly. Under the rule, Finely's trade value is about 6 million while Rose is about 8 million.

[dolemite220]

I don't think that Fin has accepted a new "role". He is still working his way into the lineup. Once playoff time comes around who will pick this team up and carry them to at least the Western Conference Finals
that's right MadMonkey Michael Finley.

Here are the statistics from this year. Hope you are able to read them properly. This is the best I could do.
Michael Finley
G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
38 38 39.7 290-649 .447 36-119 .303 116-139 .835 1.20 3.70 4.90 3.7 .97 .42 1.89 2.10 19.3

Jalen Rose
G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
51 51 36.6 373-839 .445 48-139 .345 153-182 .841 .50 4.10 4.70 3.6 .86 .51 1.98 2.80 18.6

As you can see there is no advantage to getting Jalen Rose. They are pretty close to equal with Fin having a better field goal average .447 as apposed to .445. Also points per game 19.3 as apposed to 18.6

[dolemite220]

Isn't Jalen Rose a free agent after this season?

[Joe Joe]

No Dolemite he is signed through the 2006-2007 season at the leagues Max.

[Mavinator]

The thing I don't like about Jalen is that he is a gunner- he has a tendency to shoot early and often. The only reason his shot attempts are so low in Indiana is because sometimes the younger guys actually freeze him out of the offense a little bit to contain his poor decision-making. I wouldn't put it past Nelson to make Jalen a deadly piece of the offensive rotation, though... But anyway, if Nellie's pursuing a trade with Indiana, it's not about Jalen- Nellie's real target is one of those kids. I could really see Indiana parting with Foster for the right deal, and boy could we use him...

[MavKikiNYC]

Any buzz about Mavs' acquisition of Oakley to toughen up rebounding and interior defense?

What's the story with Donnell Harvey? Does he have any game at all? Why does he never get any court time? Is he just going to get released next year?

Any info welcome to Mavs fan in NYC.

K

[MavKikiNYC]

NO WAY they trade Finley for Rose.

Totally different games, different styles of play, different attitudes.

If they can acquire Rose IN ADDITION to Finley, maybe....but at what cost? Don't think Rose can be acquired without giving up a major piece, and frankly, he's not worth it--he's just not better than what they have now.

[Road Rage]

The last I heard the Mavs have zero interest in Oakley.

[TheKid]

I know you can't believe everything you read, but here is what Nellie has had to say.



By Mike Fisher -- DallasBasketball.com
Try telling Nellie just how good this Mavericks team is, and he goes to great lengths to tell you you’re wrong.
FISH Audio: TREASURE FOR TRASH?
BLAZERS STUFF
“I think we’re playing way over our heads,’’ coach Don Nelson said in a pregame conversation with our Norm Hitzges. “I just don’t think we should be talked about with these other teams. They’re better than we are.’’
Is that really Nellie’s evaluation? Or is he poor-mouthing this awfully good club – Wednesday’s sluggish 114-103 loss at Portland notwithstanding -- keeping expectations (and his own personal hyperbole machine) in check?
“Maybe I’m wrong,’’ Nelson says. “My team keeps finding ways to win, keeps surprising me. We are where we are.’’
Maybe. The “theys’’ (presumably LA, Sacto and the Spurs) are good. But in the next breath, when asked about all the Mavs-related trade gossip buzzing about the league – Juwan Howard and Michael Finley are both mentioned on one end, with Tim Thomas, Rasheed Wallace and Danny Fortson (we guess we might as well throw Jalen Rose in there, too) among the names thrown against the wall to see if they stick on the other end – Nellie shuts ‘er down.
“We’re not going to lose any major players,’’ Nellie says, not needing to address Finley or Howard by name. “We love our team.’’
And what’s the sense in “loving our team’’ if the coach doesn’t think our team is damn good? So around here, we figure Nellie is sandbagging, trying to fly as far under the radar screen as the No. 1 team in the Midwest Division can fly.
OK, so on Wednesday it wasn’t good enough to win its ninth straight road game; but no other Mavs team in history has ever been good enough to win more than seven straight. And OK, in the second of a back-to-back road sandwich and the fourth game of a six-game, 13-day trip (the All-Star Break included), it wasn’t good enough to expand on those 36 victories; but except for Sacramento, no other team in this NBA has been able to win that many.
In Mavs’ times of trouble, it is probably instructive to note that the Blazers are truly the team in pain. Individually, Portland probably has the sort of talent and depth that matches Dallas’; shouldn’t Wallace, Scottie Pippen and Bonzi Wells constitute some sort of a Big Three?
But this club, which two years ago was a few minutes away from being the Western rep in the NBA Finals before collapsing down the stretch against the eventually dynastic Lakers, is maddeningly inconsistent (a 13-12 record to start, a 12-3 run before the All-Star break) and is maddeningly. … well, mad.
There is simply no forgetting or forgiving the scathing portrayal of the dysfunctional Blazers in that Sports Illustrated article in December in which Bonzi Wells said, "We're not going to worry about what the hell (the fans) think...they don't really matter to us."
At the same time, such a team is vulnerable – and it’s a shame the Mavs didn’t exploit that. The Blazers’ strategic nugget that triggered the loss, really, is one that asks the executor to get executed: double-teaming Steve Nash. Granted, as Seattle coach Nate McMillan said after Dallas’ win there Tuesday, “He's the X-factor for them. He's very, very good. He's a great point guard; he creates shots for his teammates. And he's like a waterbug; he's tough to defend because he can score. He's a very unselfish player. I think he's the key to that team."
Still, in theory, using the double-team to force the ball from his hand should mean a huge night for his receivers. That’s why some of Nash’s mediocre numbers (one field goal in the first half?!) aren’t as disappointing as his numbers combined with his receivers’ numbers.
Nash, Dirk Nowitzki and Michael Finley, who average 63 a game, hit just six of their first 20. By the end of the third, Nash still had his three points and Fin has just four. For those of you scoring at home, that’s the starting backcourt, usually good for 39 per game, needing three quarters to get to seven!
Things appeared healthier by game’s end; not for Nash (stuck on three points) but for Finley (a deceiving 15) and for Dirk (a deceiving 27). Really, Tim Hardaway (19 points, including a cold-blooded bomb to cut the deficit to 87-82 at the end of three) and still-hot Juwan Howard (19 points) kept the Mavs close – must not much closer than that, as Dallas went five minutes late in the fourth without scoring a field goal.

But all in all, Nellie’s team? I think I’ll keep ‘em.






No Deals -- And No Win In Portland