GDT: game 22 (21?) - Suns (10-8) at Mavs (8-12) 7:30 pm NBATV

[VA-Mavs-Fan]

Shoulda put Green on CPaul. (Same for Lavine against Chicago). And the good news, Green will only get better, if we play him. Honestly, Green is probably our best 1-3 defender. Brunson and Burke try on defense, but they are not close to Green on D. CP torched us. again and again. But that's OK. Keep doing the same thing RC.

Some folks will tell me about all the shots that Burke and Brunson make - Ok, some nights they do. But not usually enough to offset all the easy baskets that THJ, Burke and Brunson give up on the defensive side. THose guys are almost always negative in +/-. Same for tonight. RC can't pretend that defense is job 1, and leave probably his best 1-3 defender on the bench, and keep in 3 guards that are very poor defenders.

The bad news - RC will probably trade Green for some mediocre vet.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by VA-Mavs-Fan

Shoulda put Green on CPaul. (Same for Lavine against Chicago). And the good news, Green will only get better, if we play him. Honestly, Green is probably our best 1-3 defender. Brunson and Burke try on defense, but they are not close to Green on D. CP torched us. again and again. But that's OK. Keep doing the same thing RC.

Some folks will tell me about all the shots that Burke and Brunson make - Ok, some nights they do. But not usually enough to offset all the easy baskets that THJ, Burke and Brunson give up on the defensive side. Those guys are almost always negative in +/-. Same for tonight. RC can't pretend that defense is job 1, and leave probably his best 1-3 defender on the bench, and keep in 3 guards that are very poor defenders.

The bad news - RC will probably trade Green for some mediocre vet.

Yeah I stay away from complaining about Rick for playing THJ. He's a decent team defender. Not the best individual defender, but more than anything, his scoring is huge. His super efficient scoring kept us in the game last night.

What I don't understand is the total no show for Green. We drafted him. He's been solid when he gets minutes. It's just hard to be consistent with 2minutes and then five DNPs.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

If Suns take it out of Doncic's hands, we only have Richardson and THJ (who were actually darn good, but still not nearly as deadly as Doncic).

If Mavs take it out of Paul's hands, they have Booker wrecking us. And he did.

That's the difference in the two teams and why it's easy to couch quarterback this team but if you're spending all your energy keeping it out of Paul's hands 1) He's smart and wiley and will beat you anyway and 2) You're leaving yourself open to get absolutely wrecked by Booker. You can barely keep it out of one guy's hands. It's impossible to prevent it from two.

Which is why you put a quicker defender on him like JRich. Ya know....the guy we went to get specifically for these situations.

[Quantum]

I am thinking that Rick is on the hot seat within the organization to get this team out of the rut asap...therefore was not going to play guys he cant trust. He had to play his best players tonight without experimenting with the lineup. His leash has been shortened on the whole "experimenting with lineups". I dont think Green was ever going to play in a game like last night even though casuals like myself think Green could have bothered Booker or Paul with his athleticism and energy and lat quickness.

On the Paul thing, though...I think Paul might be too savy for the rook. I am assuming Paul would have gotten Green fouled out quick. Easy free throws, etc etc. Doesnt mean Green couldnt have bothered him.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

If Suns take it out of Doncic's hands, we only have Richardson and THJ (who were actually darn good, but still not nearly as deadly as Doncic).

If Mavs take it out of Paul's hands, they have Booker wrecking us. And he did.

That's the difference in the two teams and why it's easy to couch quarterback this team but if you're spending all your energy keeping it out of Paul's hands 1) He's smart and wiley and will beat you anyway and 2) You're leaving yourself open to get absolutely wrecked by Booker. You can barely keep it out of one guy's hands. It's impossible to prevent it from two.

Booker was in street clothes Saturday and RC never bothered to trap Paul.

Regardless though you try something different or you use situational defense down the stretch like put your best defenders on the floor just like teams put their best offensive players on the floor late in games.

[VA-Mavs-Fan]

Originally Posted by Quantum

I am thinking that Rick is on the hot seat within the organization to get this team out of the rut asap...therefore was not going to play guys he cant trust. He had to play his best players tonight without experimenting with the lineup. His leash has been shortened on the whole "experimenting with lineups". I dont think Green was ever going to play in a game like last night even though casuals like myself think Green could have bothered Booker or Paul with his athleticism and energy and lat quickness.

On the Paul thing, though...I think Paul might be too savy for the rook. I am assuming Paul would have gotten Green fouled out quick. Easy free throws, etc etc. Doesnt mean Green couldnt have bothered him.

Well - Green couldn't possibly done worse than allowing CP go 14/20. That's embarrassing, and shows our total failure in even slowing him down. Green is a much much better defender than THJ, Burke, Brunson. And he will only get better, if RC plays him - he was just starting to get comfortable on offense, when he started getting DNPs. I see the short leash for RC, but if he really means -"playing great defense is job 1", then he needs to give Burke's minutes to Green, at the very least.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Booker was in street clothes Saturday and RC never bothered to trap Paul.

Regardless though you try something different or you use situational defense down the stretch like put your best defenders on the floor just like teams put their best offensive players on the floor late in games.

Are really using Saturday-- a game where nothing was going right to justify Rick's decision not to trap yesterday when they actually did have Booker?

BTW, on the last play, we did deny CP and it went to Booker who won the game for them.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Are really using Saturday-- a game where nothing was going right to justify Rick's decision not to trap yesterday when they actually did have Booker?

BTW, on the last play, we did deny CP and it went to Booker who won the game for them.

yes I'm using Saturday

In fact I even said the same thing in Saturday GDT

It doesn't hurt to try and trap the guy and force someone else to beat you or make a decision with the ball.

Saturday the Suns had no one else capable of handling the ball and he still didn't utilize the trap.

Who knows if it works yesterday but the fact that you ignored doing it again and tried to slow him down with DFS (which is not the 1st time we've seen DFS chasing around Paul all game) is bad coaching not willing to try something different.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Are really using Saturday-- a game where nothing was going right to justify Rick's decision not to trap yesterday when they actually did have Booker?

BTW, on the last play, we did deny CP and it went to Booker who won the game for them.

Idk, it makes sense to me. It's hard to see how his point isn't valid but citing the last play where denying CP ending up with Booker winning the game. Booker put them ahead with 1.5 left in the game, but he didn't WIN the game. CP3 won that game, and he won the last game on Saturday too.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by VA-Mavs-Fan

Shoulda put Green on CPaul. (Same for Lavine against Chicago). And the good news, Green will only get better, if we play him. Honestly, Green is probably our best 1-3 defender. Brunson and Burke try on defense, but they are not close to Green on D. CP torched us. again and again. But that's OK. Keep doing the same thing RC.

Some folks will tell me about all the shots that Burke and Brunson make - Ok, some nights they do. But not usually enough to offset all the easy baskets that THJ, Burke and Brunson give up on the defensive side. THose guys are almost always negative in +/-. Same for tonight. RC can't pretend that defense is job 1, and leave probably his best 1-3 defender on the bench, and keep in 3 guards that are very poor defenders.

The bad news - RC will probably trade Green for some mediocre vet.

So you honestly think Green is our best 1-3 defender? Better than the guy we went to get specifically for 1-3? He's not. Well, I mean it's not proven yet so Idk maybe you are going to soon be right but I haven't seen it yet. I don't blame Rick for not relying on a Green rookie down the stretch. But I damn sure blame him for having DFFS on him.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Yeah I stay away from complaining about
What I don't understand is the total no show for Green. We drafted him. He's been solid when he gets minutes. It's just hard to be consistent with 2minutes and then five DNPs.

For comparison, Bane is averaging 22 mpg for Memphis.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

For comparison, Bane is averaging 22 mpg for Memphis.

So much for the theory that Dallas is a winning team and it's hard for rookies to get playing time on a winning team.

Meanwhile Memphis has won 7 straight without J.Jackson even playing a single minute this year and have a better record than the Mavs.

But hey Rick is going to ride his vets even if they don't play defense and Green has to play mistake free when he does get minutes or else it's back to the end of the bench.

[Quantum]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

So much for the theory that Dallas is a winning team and it's hard for rookies to get playing time on a winning team.

Meanwhile Memphis has won 7 straight without J.Jackson even playing a single minute this year and have a better record than the Mavs.

But hey Rick is going to ride his vets even if they don't play defense and Green has to play mistake free when he does get minutes or else it's back to the end of the bench.

Does Green mess up the spacing on offense that bad? Does he make so many mistakes he is not playable? I get the trust argument...but Greens defense and energy going after rebounds pops off the screen.

Is Rick from a military family? You have to earn your stripes from the bench...vets get the playing time even if they are inferior players?

[SMC0007]

Rigid Rick. Man what a frustrating situation.

I'd love to say I told ya so about drafting Bane at 18. Its a moot point because rigid Rick wouldnt play him either.

[Quantum]

Rick the type of dude to not play Lebron until his 3rd season.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Rigid Rick. Man what a frustrating situation.

I'd love to say I told ya so about drafting Bane at 18. Its a moot point because rigid Rick wouldnt play him either.

LOL

They should have hired you as an consultant this off season.

Would have had both Wood & Bane although I think Green is still going to be a solid NBA player.

Also, I'm not sure Bane would have got the minutes here either so really it's a wash.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

LOL

They should have hired you as an consultant this off season.

Would have had both Wood & Bane although I think Green is still going to be a solid NBA player.

Also, I'm not sure Bane would have got the minutes here either so really it's a wash.

I would have choked before draft and traded the picks for cash...because something is in the water at the Mavs facility.

I just don't love our current boys in blue more than I love my home organization. My loyalty lies with the team not the individuals and its a do or didn't league and clearly Wood and Bane would be benefitting us way more than what we currently have. I would have already consulted Cuban to sit RC down and had a come to Jesus meeting about rotations, utilizing our 1st round Pick and freshening up our offensive system. Also perhaps hire a fn defensive coach like we had in D Casey.

I like Green and think he's gonna be a good player too. God only knows when that might be. I have a suspicion that as a Mav under Rigid Rick, it's gonna take longer than many other places.

[turin]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Idk, it makes sense to me. It's hard to see how his point isn't valid but citing the last play where denying CP ending up with Booker winning the game. Booker put them ahead with 1.5 left in the game, but he didn't WIN the game. CP3 won that game, and he won the last game on Saturday too.

In a 1 possession loss, the point is not that it didn't work on the ONE freaking possession at the end. There were practically 4 complete quarters where it could've been tried multiple times. What if it only worked once or twice? Maybe the Mavs get a W. This is all on RC. Green is your best 1-3 defender and his arse was glued to the bench while DFS ran around to no effect. Unbelievable! How about that last play for Luka? 1.5 seconds left and Luka is behind the 3-pt line and catches the ball and is moving AWAY from the basket. WTH? RC couldn't think of a more difficult position to put Luka in? /sarc

It's time for a new coach.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by turin

In a 1 possession loss, the point is not that it didn't work on the ONE freaking possession at the end. There were practically 4 complete quarters where it could've been tried multiple times. What if it only worked once or twice? Maybe the Mavs get a W. This is all on RC. Green is your best 1-3 defender and his arse was glued to the bench while DFS ran around to no effect. Unbelievable! How about that last play for Luka? 1.5 seconds left and Luka is behind the 3-pt line and catches the ball and is moving AWAY from the basket. WTH? RC couldn't think of a more difficult position to put Luka in? /sarc

It's time for a new coach.

I'm not sure what to make of this. I'm staring at it though.

[Quantum]

Allowing the rookie Green, whom cant be trusted because he makes mistakes, play in at the end could have been a blessing in disguise...he might have made a mistake and fouled Paul or Booker. Would have possibly saved us the game.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Quantum

Allowing the rookie Green, whom cant be trusted because he makes mistakes, play in at the end could have been a blessing in disguise...he might have made a mistake and fouled Paul or Booker. Would have possibly saved us the game.

I'm all absolutely for playing Green. I'm just curious as to why he is preferred over JRich guarding Paul?

[turin]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I'm not sure what to make of this. I'm staring at it though.

After rereading this, it looks like I was a bit unclear. I was referring to Green playing in the game period, not specifically the last play of the game. There were 4 quarters where Green could've played and possibly had an impact. I dont' think he would've been worse than dfs. After not playing any of the game at all, there is no way that Green comes in on that last play for any coach in the NBA more than likely.

[turin]

.

[turin]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I'm all absolutely for playing Green. I'm just curious as to why he is preferred over JRich guarding Paul?

I'm fine with JRich on Paul also. At least that's trying something different. Maybe JRich on Paul and Green on Booker would've worked a little better. There was also a foul to give, but like contesting a call, I guess those are just too valuable to use sometimes. heh

[Quantum]

No NBA coach would have Green in during an important play like that...I agree.

About the foul not used. I am seeing a comment on mavsmoneyball where someone is saying that JRich said after the game that the team was aware of the foul to give and that they had a very specific plan during the timeout. The comment I guess suggests Maxi was supposed to foul Paul?

I am guilty of not doing research on this to see if JRich said this. I am also aware that someone on the internet could be telling lies. Anyway...if JRich said this...he is either taking one for Carlisle...or one of the players made a big mistake. Maxi was the one able to foul i guess?

[turin]

Originally Posted by Quantum

No NBA coach would have Green in during an important play like that...I agree.

About the foul not used. I am seeing a comment on mavsmoneyball where someone is saying that JRich said after the game that the team was aware of the foul to give and that they had a very specific plan during the timeout. The comment I guess suggests Maxi was supposed to foul Paul?

I am guilty of not doing research on this to see if JRich said this. I am also aware that someone on the internet could be telling lies. Anyway...if JRich said this...he is either taking one for Carlisle...or one of the players made a big mistake. Maxi was the one able to foul i guess?

Hmm, okay. That's interesting. But Maxi can't guard everybody. There was no reason that the guys guarding CP and Booker on that last possession couldn't have fouled either one of them. <?> I'd go back and rewatch it to make a more accurate comment, but I'm too beat down, and it doesn't make any difference. The players and Carlisle are all professionals. I just don't understand why these closing scenarios are so routinely executed so poorly. These guys have been playing basketball their entire lives. Every game has an end, and there are only so many different scenarios. A foul to give, timeouts available, et. al. These things are not esoteric unicorns that nobody has ever seen before. I just don't get why this crap keeps happening over and over again.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Quantum

No NBA coach would have Green in during an important play like that...I agree.

About the foul not used. I am seeing a comment on mavsmoneyball where someone is saying that JRich said after the game that the team was aware of the foul to give and that they had a very specific plan during the timeout. The comment I guess suggests Maxi was supposed to foul Paul?

I am guilty of not doing research on this to see if JRich said this. I am also aware that someone on the internet could be telling lies. Anyway...if JRich said this...he is either taking one for Carlisle...or one of the players made a big mistake. Maxi was the one able to foul i guess?

Rick said postgame that they were informed of a foul to give and to take it. That in particular isn't on him even though he is trying to eat it.

“We were well-aware that we had the foul to give,” said Mavericks coach Rick Carlisle. “We were supposed to take it; we did not. So that’s my responsibility"

[Quantum]

There was a screen placed on DFS that put Maxi on Paul. But it still didnt look like they were trying to foul right after inbound

[SMC0007]

[QUOTE=turin;1488568]Hmm, okay. That's interesting. But Maxi can't guard everybody. There was no reason that the guys guarding CP and Booker on that last possession couldn't have fouled either one of them. <?> I'd go back and rewatch it to make a more accurate comment, but I'm too beat down, and it doesn't make any difference. The players and Carlisle are all professionals. I just don't understand why these closing scenarios are so routinely executed so poorly. These guys have been playing basketball their entire lives. Every game has an end, and there are only so many different scenarios. A foul to give, timeouts available, et. al. These things are not esoteric unicorns that nobody has ever seen before. I just don't get why this crap keeps happening over and over again.[/QUOTE]

Bro.... it's simple. We have 1 playmaker. 1! Double him or deny him and the odds increase significantly that you win the game much more often than not. No one is concerned that DFS, Maxi, JRich or even kP is going to beat them.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Quantum

There was a screen placed on DFS that put Maxi on Paul. But it still didnt look like they were trying to foul right after inbound

https://youtu.be/IqbfRuv238w

Maxi on Paul in that situation is better than DFS IMO.

There was like 11 seconds left so they dont want to foul immediately anyway. Any of the guys could have fouled at about 4 or 5 seconds mark but no one did.


But look at this hot garbage. KP gets split wide open on the PnR and literally stands there watching. Somehow Paul misses a layup and he then decides to run down and luckily ties up Ayton.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by turin

After rereading this, it looks like I was a bit unclear. I was referring to Green playing in the game period, not specifically the last play of the game. There were 4 quarters where Green could've played and possibly had an impact. I dont' think he would've been worse than dfs. After not playing any of the game at all, there is no way that Green comes in on that last play for any coach in the NBA more than likely.

Yea, Green doesn't hurt us and you have to get him minutes. I would have had him on Bridges and perhaps Booker. You have to give the kid minutes because the one thing he always gives is full on hustle.

[Quantum]

there was no pick placed on DFS...my bad. Maxi and DFS just switched.

Looks like Booker and Paul both were cooking KP with the dribble and then long jump backwards and to the side where KP could not block their shot. Kind of hard to defend that unless you are 8 foot tall.

Would WCS's length and foot speed have been better to defend the PnR last night? Or is WCS more of a liability than KP?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Quantum

there was no pick placed on DFS...my bad. Maxi and DFS just switched.

Looks like Booker and Paul both were cooking KP with the dribble and then long jump backwards and to the side where KP could not block their shot. Kind of hard to defend that unless you are 8 foot tall.

Would WCS's length and foot speed have been better to defend the PnR last night? Or is WCS more of a liability than KP?

Imo Willie is much better but still not as good as Maxi. KP is a flat out liability right now defensively. Aside from help side rim protection.

Paul was just hitting tough shots and that's OK. Not much anyone in the league could have done. Gjys are just gonna have those nights. But the one constant is how bad our starting "center" is on PnR D

[turin]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Bro.... it's simple. We have 1 playmaker. 1! Double him or deny him and the odds increase significantly that you win the game much more often than not. No one is concerned that DFS, Maxi, JRich or even kP is going to beat them.

The end of game screwups have nothing to do with the fact that Luka is our sole playmaker. There was a foul to give at the end that wasn't utilized. It wouldn't matter if we had Luka, Harden, and Chris Paul on the floor if NOBODY fouls.

[turin]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yea, Green doesn't hurt us and you have to get him minutes. I would have had him on Bridges and perhaps Booker. You have to give the kid minutes because the one thing he always gives is full on hustle.

Sadly, if we're too good now for Green to get minutes, then we just need to admit our mistake and release him and move on. /sarc

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by turin

The end of game screwups have nothing to do with the fact that Luka is our sole playmaker. There was a foul to give at the end that wasn't utilized. It wouldn't matter if we had Luka, Harden, and Chris Paul on the floor if NOBODY fouls.

I thought you were talking about final offensive possession. Hell even most of our offensive possessions down the stretch, teams aren't worried about the other ghys...just Luka

[FreshJive]

Yesterday on NBA radio, Antonio Daniels said that defending guards and forwards with handles in the nba has become nearly impossible compared to when he played, because of the way the rules and refs favor the offensive player so heavily. He said he has no idea what coaches and players are supposed to do, and you are pretty much just praying they miss shots. One thing he talked about was how difficult screens are to overcome. If you fight over the screen, shooters like Durant and Harden know how to draw the foul, and if you go under, then they are taking warm up shots.

[turin]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I thought you were talking about final offensive possession. Hell even most of our offensive possessions down the stretch, teams aren't worried about the other ghys...just Luka

Gotcha. That makes more sense. I was talking about the semi-regular closing mistakes this team makes in crunch time. There seems to always be a mental mistake. It's one thing to execute and things not work out, but there's no excuse to continue making mental errors in clutch time imo, especially on things as simple as having a foul to give.

[Dallas41]

.

[Quantum]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Yesterday on NBA radio, Antonio Daniels said that defending guards and forwards with handles in the nba has become nearly impossible compared to when he played, because of the way the rules and refs favor the offensive player so heavily. He said he has no idea what coaches and players are supposed to do, and you are pretty much just praying they miss shots. One thing he talked about was how difficult screens are to overcome. If you fight over the screen, shooters like Durant and Harden know how to draw the foul, and if you go under, then they are taking warm up shots.

Everyone hates player empowerment...but it should be up to the players to complain about the game and get it changed to a better product. Not an owner or shareholder...but the guys playing. Unless they sign off on the way the games rules are interpreted in the CBA...I just dont see how players can play with flopping(or how the refs are subjective about when they call it) or how they can play with the weak fouls around the rim. Its a contact sport regardless of what the rule interpreters think. Eliminate the bs and get the sport in the proper direction.