Official Dirk is Great Thread

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

There was only one real snub on the NBA all-star rosters

I'm actually surprised by Aldridge's defensive numbers which may have put him over the top.

[Underdog]

2011 Champion/Finals MVP
2007 Most Valuable Player
6th All-Time Scorer
13x All-Star
50-40-90 Club
Most Likable Franchise Player in Sports History

Long live the king, baby!

[GermanDunk]

Can we at least save this ?

[Sportstudi]

Originally Posted by Underdog

2011 Champion/Finals MVP
2007 Most Valuable Player
6th All-Time Scorer
13x All-Star
50-40-90 Club
Most Likable Franchise Player in Sports History

Long live the king, baby!

6th All-Time Scorer Not sure if he catches Wilt.

[Skywalker]

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Sportstudi

6th All-Time Scorer Not sure if he catches Wilt.

That was a typo, thanks for the catch (especially since the site is still around!)

[BPo001]

The Dirkster is mentioned in this article by Jamal Crawford.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/jam...shot-creators/

[BPo001]

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Has there been an unstoppable move in the NBA since the skyhook? And I bring up Dirk’s fadeaway. ABDUL-JABBAR: You asked about Dirk Nowitzki. Dirk Nowitzki’s shot is very hard to block, but I don’t think that he was able to have a dominant career because he couldn’t do other things. If he could have shot like that and rebounded and played defense and blocked shots, then he would have been all-around, and he would have gotten more credit. He was like a one-trick pony.
– via Medium

Hater.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BPo001

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Has there been an unstoppable move in the NBA since the skyhook? And I bring up Dirk’s fadeaway. ABDUL-JABBAR: You asked about Dirk Nowitzki. Dirk Nowitzki’s shot is very hard to block, but I don’t think that he was able to have a dominant career because he couldn’t do other things. If he could have shot like that and rebounded and played defense and blocked shots, then he would have been all-around, and he would have gotten more credit. He was like a one-trick pony.
– via Medium

Hater.

Getting kicked in the head by Bruce Lee will do that to a fella...

[Bryan_Wilson]

Rly wish someone would correct him... I believe he once called Dirk a volume scorer also.... Also I'm pretty tired of the defense/rebounding narrative that has followed Dirk. Nobody criticizes Magic when he wasn't exactly playing defense to his athletic abilities. And Dirk was always a good defensive rebounder... he just never got those offensive boards simply because he was too busy shattering the mold (by not being so close to the rim) and fathering the small ball era.

[10AMGareDuNord]

Originally Posted by BPo001

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Has there been an unstoppable move in the NBA since the skyhook? And I bring up Dirk’s fadeaway. ABDUL-JABBAR: You asked about Dirk Nowitzki. Dirk Nowitzki’s shot is very hard to block, but I don’t think that he was able to have a dominant career because he couldn’t do other things. If he could have shot like that and rebounded and played defense and blocked shots, then he would have been all-around, and he would have gotten more credit. He was like a one-trick pony.
– via Medium

Hater.

KAJ is a noted Dirk hater (this is only the most recent in a string of bitter vitriol geared toward Dirk), and frankly, I think he's a racist (based on many of his quotes and pseudo-philosophical essays). This quote is bar none, one of the single most ignorant and inaccurate things I have ever read. Dirk was actually a *better* defensive rebounder than KAJ, and more efficient scorer.

[Underdog]

@OneLeggedFade41: Dirk is only player in HISTORY w/ 25k+ Pts, 10k+ Rebs, 1k+ Blks, 1k+ Stls, & 1k+ 3's but hes a "1 trick pony"

[j0Shi]

Fuck him, really. Ego > knowledge is always a good combination to look awfully stupid.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by BPo001

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Has there been an unstoppable move in the NBA since the skyhook? And I bring up Dirk’s fadeaway. ABDUL-JABBAR: You asked about Dirk Nowitzki. Dirk Nowitzki’s shot is very hard to block, but I don’t think that he was able to have a dominant career because he couldn’t do other things. If he could have shot like that and rebounded and played defense and blocked shots, then he would have been all-around, and he would have gotten more credit. He was like a one-trick pony.
– via Medium

Hater.

FCK anything that pseudo intellectual douche has to say.

I just used my twitter @bpstevens87 to say something to him lol

[10AMGareDuNord]

Also, the whole Dirk being just a shooter (offensive only) is delusional. Since around 2007-onwards, Dirk has arguably been the best post player in the NBA. Every year he's top 5 in post-up efficiency/scoring. Third in the NBA in post-up points this year...at 37.

Saw this in a thread on RealGM, as well.

POST-UP POWERS
Most efficient post-up players in 2013-14 season, according to Synergy (minimum 125 plays).

Player Plays Points FG% %FT Pts/play
LeBron James 261 283 55.9 21.8 1.08
Kevin Durant 207 221 47.8 20.8 1.07
Dirk Nowitzki 534 568 50.8 15.5 1.06
Dwyane Wade 145 153 53.7 17.2 1.06
Carmelo Anthony 420 427 49.4 16.7 1.02
Al Jefferson 840 813 51.0 11.0 0.97
Arron Afflalo 173 167 49.6 14.5 0.97
Blake Griffin 541 517 47.8 22.7 0.96
Joe Johnson 244 233 50.8 12.3 0.96
Brandon Bass 241 229 44.8 17.0 0.95

[Samurai]

Dirk as a poor defensive player is probably the biggest myth in basketball. I challenge anybody to come up with stats that show that he isn't a better than average defender.
Dirk has always had a better Defensive Rating than the teams he played on. For his career, his teams have given up 105.52 (Points per Possession multiplied by 100), while Dirk is at 104. That would be a PLUS 1.52 on defense. (Compare that to Kobe at 105, and a NEGATIVE .89) I am guessing that elite career Defensive Rating numbers over and above the team average would be something like a plus 3. My guess is that guys like Duncan and Garnett would be somewhere around a plus 4. So a plus 1.5 would make Dirk a good, but not a great defender.

[10AMGareDuNord]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Dirk as a poor defensive player is probably the biggest myth in basketball. I challenge anybody to come up with stats that show that he isn't a better than average defender.
Dirk has always had a better Defensive Rating than the teams he played on. For his career, his teams have given up 105.52 (Points Per Possession multiplied by 100), while Dirk is at 104. That would be a PLUS 1.52. (Compare that to Kobe at 105, and a NEGATIVE .9) I am guessing that elite career Defensive Rating numbers over and above the team average would be something like a plus 3. My guess is that guys like Duncan and Garnett would somewhere around a plus 4. So a plus 1.5 would make Dirk a good, but not a great defender.

Oh, absolutely. Prime Dirk was a *good* defender. No, not elite...nowhere near the impact of KG or Duncan, obviously. But he was a good defender. Not just a little above average, but as in he actually made a discernible, positive impact. Also, per Synergy, Dirk has actually been an extremely good post and man defender (it's his PnR D that has been average in his prime, to bad now, in his career). He guarded LMA, Gasol, and Bosh better than Tyson or Haywood in the 2011 run. Also, prime Dirk was an *elite* defensive rebounder...especially in the playoffs. His playoff DRB% is higher than Hakeem and KAJ's.

Sadly, Dirk's race and birthplace definitely plays into the false narrative that certain people like KAJ like to parrot.

[nikeball]

Dirk's classy response

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14...one-trick-pony
Tim MacMahon

ESPN Staff Writer

DALLAS -- Dirk Nowitzki respectfully disagrees with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's opinion that Nowitzki is a "one-trick pony" who has not had a "dominant career."

"I mean, it's actually not the first time he said some stuff," Nowitzki, the sixth-leading scorer in NBA history, told ESPN.com after scoring 28 points for the Dallas Mavericks in Wednesday's 93-90 loss to the Miami Heat. "I'm not sure why. I guess he's not a big fan of my game, which is OK. But I like to think I was dominant at some point -- especially on the offensive end -- of my career, in my prime.

"It is what it is. People have opinions. He's one of the greatest ever to play the game, so I'm not going to get in a war of words. I respect his opinion. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it is what it is."


During an appearance this week, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar said that Dirk Nowitzki would have gotten more credit for his career if he wasn't a "one-trick pony," a characterization Nowitzki respectfully disagrees with.

Abdul-Jabbar, a six-time champion and the league's all-time leading scorer, made his comments during an appearance at George Mason University this week. He was asked whether there has been an unstoppable shot since his sky hook, with Nowitzki's one-legged fadeaway suggested as a possibility.

"You asked about Dirk Nowitzki," Abdul-Jabbar said. "Dirk Nowitzki's shot is very hard to block, but I don't think that he was able to have a dominant career because he couldn't do other things. If he could have shot like that and rebounded and played defense and blocked shots, then he would have been all-around, and he would have gotten more credit. He was like a one-trick pony.

"You want guys that can shoot like that on your team. I'm not saying that he lacked value, but he would have been considered at a higher level if he had done more on the court other than just shoot the ball."

Nowitzki acknowledged that he never had the kind of impact that Abdul-Jabbar did as a defender and rebounder, but he noted that he worked his way to being a "decent" rebounder, averaging as many as 9.9 per game in a season twice.

Nowitzki said he is also proud that he went from being "strictly a spot-up shooter" to a versatile offensive threat who punished opponents in the post, off the dribble and with his jump shot.

Nowitzki has made 13 All-Star appearances and has also earned league MVP and Finals MVP honors. He was the lone All-Star on two Finals teams, including the 2010-11 NBA champions.

With Nowitzki as the face of the franchise, the Mavs had 11 consecutive 50-win seasons. During that stretch, one of Nowitzki's teammates was selected as an All-Star only five times, including two occasions as injury replacements.

"I don't think you can average 25 and 10 over your playoff career and not be dominant. I don't think you can get to sixth in scoring in this league over 18 years and not be at some point at least somewhat dominant."

Dirk Nowitzki
Only three other teams in NBA history have had a decade-long run with at least 50 wins in each season: Bill Russell's Boston Celtics, the Los Angeles Lakers with Magic Johnson and Abdul-Jabbar, and Tim Duncan's San Antonio Spurs.

The list of players with career playoff averages of at least 25 points and 10 rebounds per game is similarly short: Nowitzki and Hall of Famers Elgin Baylor, Hakeem Olajuwon and Bob Pettit.

"I don't want to get into throwing stats around, because his are obviously way better than mine," Nowitzki said. "But I don't think you can average 25 and 10 over your playoff career and not be dominant. I don't think you can get to sixth in scoring in this league over 18 years and not be at some point at least somewhat dominant."

[Bryan_Wilson]

@Tmac-
Heated Chandler Parsons: "Carried franchise for almost 20 years, Finals MVP, regular season MVP, 6th all-time? Wish I was a 1-trick pony."

https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/st...86275843035141

[Underdog]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...-nbarank-16-20

#17 Dirk Nowitzki

Position
Power forward

Teams
Dallas Mavericks (1998-present)

Honors
MVP (2006-07), Finals MVP (2010-11), 13-time All-Star, 12-time All-NBA selection

Championships
One (2011)

Career stats
22.1 PPG, 7.9 RPG, 2.6 APG, .475 FG%

Did you know?
Nowitzki is the NBA's all-time leader in 3-point field goals, free throws and free throw percentage (minimum 10 attempts) among players 7 feet or taller. He has made over 1,000 more 3-pointers than the next most prolific 7-foot shooter in NBA history (Andrea Bargnani). -- ESPN Stats & Info

[10AMGareDuNord]

ESPN list is so all over the place. With recency bias, esp. KD and Steph are WAY too high. If you extrapolate their career trajectories, sure. But that's a bit myopic. Stockton is too high. I hate KG, but he's ahead of Robinson and Stockton. Dirk at #17 is reasonable, though he has a far better case at 11-15. There's some good stuff in certain RealGM threads with heavy analytics comparisons that favor Dirk VERY well (I've seen him in the Top 10 even occasionally). Personally, I have him at 12.

(No Order)

MJ
Russell
Wilt
KAJ (asshole)
Jordan
Bird
TD
Shaq
Magic
Hakeem
LBJ
Dirk (right above the 4some of Kobe, West, Dr. J, Big O).

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...f=64&t=1328924

[10AMGareDuNord]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

@Tmac-
Heated Chandler Parsons: "Carried franchise for almost 20 years, Finals MVP, regular season MVP, 6th all-time? Wish I was a 1-trick pony."

https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/st...86275843035141

Anyone that has played with Dirk (and against...unless they're a jaded scrub like Mikki Moore), *immensely* respects Dirk. Kobe, MJ, TD, McGrady, Webber, etc. all gush about him.

Honestly, people need to address the elephant in the room. KAJ has a racially motivated vendetta against Dirk. And I guarantee if Bird made these kinds of repeated, vitriolic comments about, say, Kobe, the people would be calling that out...

[Underdog]

@ESPNSteinLine: Think I liked it better when Kareem was cold-shouldering the media if these are the interviews we've been missing

[dude1394]

You guys have shat all over this thread discussing a pos like Alcindor here. Boo hisss.

[10AMGareDuNord]

At 37, "one trick pony/streaky shooter," Dirk is 3rd in the NBA in post-up points. With a higher PPP (1.05) on post-ups than both Gasol's, LMA, Cousins, Vucevic, Lopez, ZBo, Melo, Love, David, Dwight, Blake, Towns, LBJ, Kanter, Monroe...

In fact, the *only* player with a higher PPP on a significant amount of post touches is Millsap, at 1.08. But Millsap is 10 spots below Dirk in post-up points.

So "one-trick, can only shoot," Dirk, at 37, is THE best post player in the NBA...

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/pos...r&OD=offensive

[Jack.Kerr]

Abdul-Jabbar is hands-down the best center in the history of the NBA, and one of the most dominant of his era. And he is correct insomuch as Dirk has not been as dominant in his era as Abdul-Jabbar was in his.

But I think it is very fair to ask whether Abdul-Jabbar would be as dominant in Dirk's era as he was in his own. I think Abdul-Jabbar would still be a great player, but not necessarily as dominant.

The game has changed, the center position has evolved. Unless Kareem could hit a 3-pt sky hook, he'd be playing a lot of goalie.

Ironically, Abdul-Jabbar's ungracious comments about Dirk echo Wilt Chamberlain's embittered criticisms of Abdul-Jabbar himself. As intelligent as Abdul-Jabbar is, it's curious that he doesn't realize this. He just looks bitter and petty, and more defensive than he looked over the last 5 years of his career.

I remember a comment that Kareem made back around '76 or '77, after the Bucks had traded him to LA, and before the Lakers had upgraded the roster. A frustrated Abdul-Jabbar said of the Lakers, "They just pay me to show up and shoot a few hook shots." Was he being a one-trick pony at that point?

Let's be honest: Abdul-Jabbar ALWAYS needed an elite-level PG like Oscar Robertson or Magic in order for him to be a "dominant" player. Not only that, Abdul-Jabbar played the last decade-plus of his career on a roster stocked with all-time greats like Magic and Worthy, and with starts like Jamaal Wilkes and Norm Nixon, and with top-tier reserves like Michael Cooper, Bob McAdoo and Mychal Thompson. Abdul-Jabbar was able to be a "dominant" player because he had elite players supporting him. Abdul-Jabbar was roundly and rightly criticized for being a passive defender, and showing little interest in defending beyond being an off-ball shot blocker. And rightly or wrongly he was criticized for being "soft", missing a decisive championship game with a "migraine" during Magic's rookie year, when Magic pretty much single-handedly defeated the Sixers for the championship with Abdul-Jabbar back in Los Angels. I'm not sure that he was as regarded as being as dominant and well-rounded during the last half of his career as he seems to remember.

With the exception of Jason Kidd playing out the tail-end of his career with the Mavericks, Dirk never had that level of support on the roster. He has ended up carrying the Mavericks on his back for the better part of two decades. Dirk may not have as many rings as Abdul-Jabbar, but he's been an MVP and an NBA Champion. Dirk has also been a loyal, humble, classy, team player and a great example for his teammates, something fewer people would say about Abdul-Jabbar.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 10AMGareDuNord

At 37, "one trick pony/streaky shooter," Dirk is 3rd in the NBA in post-up points. With a higher PPP (1.05) on post-ups than both Gasol's, LMA, Cousins, Vucevic, Lopez, ZBo, Melo, Love, David, Dwight, Blake, Towns, LBJ, Kanter, Monroe...

In fact, the *only* player with a higher PPP on a significant amount of post touches is Millsap, at 1.08. But Millsap is 10 spots below Dirk in post-up points.

So "one-trick, can only shoot," Dirk, at 37, is THE best post player in the NBA...

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/pos...r&OD=offensive

Dirk's "one trick" is being awesome at basketball.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Abdul-Jabbar is hands-down the best center in the history of the NBA, and one of the most dominant of his era. And he is correct insomuch as Dirk has not been as dominant in his era as Abdul-Jabbar was in his.

But I think it is very fair to ask whether Abdul-Jabbar would be as dominant in Dirk's era as he was in his own. I think Abdul-Jabbar would still be a great player, but not necessarily as dominant.

The game has changed, the center position has evolved. Unless Kareem could hit a 3-pt sky hook, he'd be playing a lot of goalie.

Ironically, Abdul-Jabbar's ungracious comments about Dirk echo Wilt Chamberlain's embittered criticisms of Abdul-Jabbar himself. As intelligent as Abdul-Jabbar is, it's curious that he doesn't realize this. He just looks bitter and petty, and more defensive than he looked over the last 5 years of his career.

I remember a comment that Kareem made back around '76 or '77, after the Bucks had traded him to LA, and before the Lakers had upgraded the roster. A frustrated Abdul-Jabbar said of the Lakers, "They just pay me to show up and shoot a few hook shots." Was he being a one-trick pony at that point?

Let's be honest: Abdul-Jabbar ALWAYS needed an elite-level PG like Oscar Robertson or Magic in order for him to be a "dominant" player. Not only that, Abdul-Jabbar played the last decade-plus of his career on a roster stocked with all-time greats like Magic and Worthy, and with starts like Jamaal Wilkes and Norm Nixon, and with top-tier reserves like Michael Cooper, Bob McAdoo and Mychal Thompson. Abdul-Jabbar was able to be a "dominant" player because he had elite players supporting him. Abdul-Jabbar was roundly and rightly criticized for being a passive defender, and showing little interest in defending beyond being an off-ball shot blocker. And rightly or wrongly he was criticized for being "soft", missing a decisive championship game with a "migraine" during Magic's rookie year, when Magic pretty much single-handedly defeated the Sixers for the championship with Abdul-Jabbar back in Los Angels. I'm not sure that he was as regarded as being as dominant and well-rounded during the last half of his career as he seems to remember.

With the exception of Jason Kidd playing out the tail-end of his career with the Mavericks, Dirk never had that level of support on the roster. He has ended up carrying the Mavericks on his back for the better part of two decades. Dirk may not have as many rings as Abdul-Jabbar, but he's been an MVP and an NBA Champion. Dirk has also been a loyal, humble, classy, team player and a great example for his teammates, something fewer people would say about Abdul-Jabbar.

This is a great post.

[10AMGareDuNord]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Abdul-Jabbar is hands-down the best center in the history of the NBA, and one of the most dominant of his era. And he is correct insomuch as Dirk has not been as dominant in his era as Abdul-Jabbar was in his.

But I think it is very fair to ask whether Abdul-Jabbar would be as dominant in Dirk's era as he was in his own. I think Abdul-Jabbar would still be a great player, but not necessarily as dominant.

The game has changed, the center position has evolved. Unless Kareem could hit a 3-pt sky hook, he'd be playing a lot of goalie.

Ironically, Abdul-Jabbar's ungracious comments about Dirk echo Wilt Chamberlain's embittered criticisms of Abdul-Jabbar himself. As intelligent as Abdul-Jabbar is, it's curious that he doesn't realize this. He just looks bitter and petty, and more defensive than he looked over the last 5 years of his career.

I remember a comment that Kareem made back around '76 or '77, after the Bucks had traded him to LA, and before the Lakers had upgraded the roster. A frustrated Abdul-Jabbar said of the Lakers, "They just pay me to show up and shoot a few hook shots." Was he being a one-trick pony at that point?

Let's be honest: Abdul-Jabbar ALWAYS needed an elite-level PG like Oscar Robertson or Magic in order for him to be a "dominant" player. Not only that, Abdul-Jabbar played the last decade-plus of his career on a roster stocked with all-time greats like Magic and Worthy, and with starts like Jamaal Wilkes and Norm Nixon, and with top-tier reserves like Michael Cooper, Bob McAdoo and Mychal Thompson. Abdul-Jabbar was able to be a "dominant" player because he had elite players supporting him. Abdul-Jabbar was roundly and rightly criticized for being a passive defender, and showing little interest in defending beyond being an off-ball shot blocker. And rightly or wrongly he was criticized for being "soft", missing a decisive championship game with a "migraine" during Magic's rookie year, when Magic pretty much single-handedly defeated the Sixers for the championship with Abdul-Jabbar back in Los Angels. I'm not sure that he was as regarded as being as dominant and well-rounded during the last half of his career as he seems to remember.

With the exception of Jason Kidd playing out the tail-end of his career with the Mavericks, Dirk never had that level of support on the roster. He has ended up carrying the Mavericks on his back for the better part of two decades. Dirk may not have as many rings as Abdul-Jabbar, but he's been an MVP and an NBA Champion. Dirk has also been a loyal, humble, classy, team player and a great example for his teammates, something fewer people would say about Abdul-Jabbar.

Yep. KAJ played on absolutely *stacked* teams. Big O, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo all won MVP's or were MVP caliber. Once the team officially became Dirk's, the BEST offensive sidekick he had was Josh freaking Howard and Jason Terry. That's insane. KAJ played with at least 8 guys who were all better than J-Ho/Terry.

Moreover, I'd actually argue Dirk's prime was MORE dominant than KAJ. What makes KAJ a top 5 lock is his longevity. From 05-07, Dirk led the entire NBA in PER, Win Shares, and WS/48. If that's not dominant, I don't know what is...

[Melonhead]

Just popping in to say posters are putting out great stats and some really informative analysis. Making me more knowledgeable

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

But I think it is very fair to ask whether Abdul-Jabbar would be as dominant in Dirk's era as he was in his own. I think Abdul-Jabbar would still be a great player, but not necessarily as dominant.

Shaq, Duncan and KG would have made his life hell on both ends of the floor... And none of those guys could ever be called a Dirk-stopper.

[Skywalker]

[DirkFTW]

Gazeem
Abu
Jafar

[Skywalker]

@townbrad

I asked Pop about Kareem's "one-trick-pony" comment. "That doesn't sound like Kareem," Pop said, adding of Dirk...

[Underdog]

Dirk just moved into #34 all-time rebounding.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Dirk just moved into #34 all-time rebounding.

But Kareem says he is a one trick pony? Gosh darnit.

[GermanDunk]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But Kareem says he is a one trick pony? Gosh darnit.

Kareem seems to be an idiot. If i was at 36000 points in the NBA, i would keep my mouth shut.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by GermanDunk

Kareem seems to be an idiot. If i was at 36000 points in the NBA, i would keep my mouth shut.

Totally agree. You should never "punch down". Kareem's on top. He should just enjoy the view. Opening his mouth he only degrades himself and his legacy. Keep it classy, Big Guy.

[Underdog]

@SI_ChrisBallard: A tale of triple-decker PB&Js, "NUMBNUTS!" and One-Legged Fadeaways: My feature on @swish41 - http://www.si.com/nba/2016/02/16/dir...sh-kobe-bryant


Excellent read!

[Dnowit41]

Originally Posted by Underdog

@SI_ChrisBallard: A tale of triple-decker PB&Js, "NUMBNUTS!" and One-Legged Fadeaways: My feature on @swish41 - http://www.si.com/nba/2016/02/16/dir...sh-kobe-bryant


Excellent read!

One of the best articles I've read on Dirk in quite some time