Official Dirk is Great Thread - Page 54 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Brave Sir Robin · 06-21-2011, 03:12 PM

when dirk retires at the age of 45, he will be top 15 for sure.
someone should rewrite the old testament, including the german moses. maybe then i will read that thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I missed the Dirk interview due to being 2 hours behind. Do they normally archive that stuff somewhere? I don't see it on their list of podcasts. Maybe it doesn't go up until tomorrow?

i second that. would love to listen to the podcast.

BGMaverick9 · 06-21-2011, 03:16 PM

They usually need some time from their web guys to get it going for the podcast. I figure it should be up later this afternoon or early tomorrow.

mavspwnage · 06-21-2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robin

when dirk retires at the age of 45, he will be top 15 for sure.

Retirement at 45? pfft, that's when Dirk will be entering his prime.

OSUmavsfan · 06-21-2011, 03:47 PM

Dirk's interview with Ben and Skin:

http://espn.go.com/dallas/radio/archive?id=4503352

Direct Link

Not sure if the direct link will work, but if not, it's the first one podcast listed in the top link.

LonghornDub · 06-21-2011, 04:11 PM

"I probably would have played the Clippers if I could." HAH. Poor Clippers.

GermanDunk · 06-21-2011, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSUmavsfan

Not sure if the direct link will work, but if not, it's the first one podcast listed in the top link.

Works. Thank you !

LonghornDub · 06-21-2011, 04:19 PM

"[The whole bar cheered] when Cardinal hacked somebody....like always."

Dirk is such a hilarious dude.

CadBane · 06-21-2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

DIRK
Wilt
Kareem
Russell
MJ
Bird
Magic
West
Oscar
Hakeem
Duncan
Kobe
Shaq
Moses Malone

Official updated list.

Actually, Jerry West never won a regular season MVP.

CadBane · 06-21-2011, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

"[The whole bar cheered] when Cardinal hacked somebody....like always."

Dirk is such a hilarious dude.

Card & Dirk seem to have grown into pretty good buddies. Hope he sticks around.

CadBane · 06-21-2011, 04:26 PM

The Mavericks relied on Nowitzki in the Finals and he led them to the promise land. Nowitzki scored scored 44 percent of the Mavs’ fourth quarter points in the Finals (62 of 142).

Pretty crazy.

SMC0007 · 06-21-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Actually, Jerry West never won a regular season MVP.

Actually I never ever said thats what this list was.

OSUmavsfan · 06-21-2011, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Actually, Jerry West never won a regular season MVP.

Yeah, that's why I asked what the list was. Bill Russell never won a finals MVP (the NBA didn't start awarding it until after he won all those championships) and Oscar Robertson didn't win a finals MVP (Kareem won it the year they made the finals together).

GermanDunk · 06-21-2011, 05:05 PM

Must say, it is still unreal for me, even though i have been blessed being able to celebrate very many unreal results. The last ten minutes of the game felt like 30 minutes and then all of a sudden it was over. That´s a really crazy feeling

fluid.forty.one · 06-21-2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSUmavsfan

Dirk's interview with Ben and Skin:

http://espn.go.com/dallas/radio/archive?id=4503352

Direct Link

Not sure if the direct link will work, but if not, it's the first one podcast listed in the top link.

+rep

thank you!

mavspwnage · 06-21-2011, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSUmavsfan

Dirk's interview with Ben and Skin:

http://espn.go.com/dallas/radio/archive?id=4503352

Direct Link

Not sure if the direct link will work, but if not, it's the first one podcast listed in the top link.

nice! just listened and that was great. Dirk gives such great interviews.

CadBane · 06-22-2011, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Actually I never ever said thats what this list was.

Then what did you think it was a list of?

kingmalaki · 06-22-2011, 12:59 AM

Great postseason run by Dirk. He really silenced all the critics. I have him in the top 25-30 range now. Since his game isn't built on athleticism he may be able to play many more seasons and jump in the top 20. I don't think there is any way he can crack the top 15 but I think he can get between 16-20.

CadBane · 06-22-2011, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

Great postseason run by Dirk. He really silenced all the critics. I have him in the top 25-30 range now. Since his game isn't built on athleticism he may be able to play many more seasons and jump in the top 20. I don't think there is any way he can crack the top 15 but I think he can get between 16-20.

Umm...why not? I already have him at #14. The argument can be made now, let alone in 3-5 years.

LonghornDub · 06-22-2011, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Umm...why not? I already have him at #14. The argument can be made now, let alone in 3-5 years.

Because homeboy is a closet Heat fan.

kingmalaki · 06-22-2011, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Umm...why not? I already have him at #14. The argument can be made now, let alone in 3-5 years.

You have him at 14, based on what? I don't see how he gets ranked above these guys:

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Dream
Shaq
Duncan
Kobe

That's 10 guys, and all of them led their team to more than 1 title as the primary option. They are all better than Dirk defensively (well Magic isn't much better) and Dirk isn't really better than any of them offensively besides Russell. They all have at least one MVP and Dirk really doesn't have better numbers than any of them. I don't see how Dirk ever leaps any of these guys.

Moses Malone

He led his team to one title as well and is also better than Dirk on both sides of the ball. More MVP's as well (3), and better numbers. That's 11. I don't see how Dirk ever leaps him.

David Robinson
Oscar Robertson
Dr J

These guys all have 1 title (at least), won as a secondary option. All 3 are better on both sides of the ball than Dirk, have at least 1 MVP and have better numbers. That's 14 guys.

I haven't even mentioned Karl Malone, Baylor, West, Drexler, Pippen, McHale, Isiah, Stockton, Barkley, KG, etc. All very debatable guys.

I just don't see how Dirk goes down as a top 15 player. His career isn't done yet and I can see him getting in that 16-20 range.

CadBane · 06-22-2011, 01:26 AM

^^Should have figured.

Just finished that Dirk interview, man, Dirk is such a funny guy, you have to love him. I love him talking about how he's going to throw a 90 MPH fastball.

CadBane · 06-22-2011, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

You have him at 14, based on what? I don't see how he gets ranked above these guys:

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Dream
Shaq
Duncan
Kobe

That's 10 guys, and all of them led their team to more than 1 title as the primary option. They are all better than Dirk defensively (well Magic isn't much better) and Dirk isn't really better than any of them offensively besides Russell. They all have at least one MVP and Dirk really doesn't have better numbers than any of them. I don't see how Dirk ever leaps any of these guys.

Moses Malone

He led his team to one title as well and is also better than Dirk on both sides of the ball. More MVP's as well (3), and better numbers. That's 11. I don't see how Dirk ever leaps him.

David Robinson
Oscar Robertson
Dr J

These guys all have 1 title (at least), won as a secondary option. All 3 are better on both sides of the ball than Dirk, have at least 1 MVP and have better numbers. That's 14 guys.

I haven't even mentioned Karl Malone, Baylor, West, etc.

I just don't see how Dirk goes down as a top 15 player.

First of all, I have all those guys except for D-Rob & Dr. J over Dirk.

But Dirk is better offensively than Duncan, Hakeem (statistically), Kobe (statistically) Dr. J, and D-Rob. I mention Hakeem & Kobe statistically, because the counter can be argued. However, Dirk is solidly better offensively than Ducan, Dr. J & D-Rob.

The fact that he has been a complete beast in the playoffs his whole life gives him the edge over D-Rob (who never really elevated his game) and Dr. J. Of course one could argue those two over Dirk...NOW. But it's debatable. How you seem to think he could never pass either (if you deem him behind now) is straight laughable.

kingmalaki · 06-22-2011, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

First of all, I have all those guys except for D-Rob & Dr. J over Dirk.

But Dirk is better offensively than Duncan, Hakeem (statistically), Kobe (statistically) Dr. J, and D-Rob. I mention Hakeem & Kobe statistically, because the counter can be argued. However, Dirk is solidly better offensively than Ducan, Dr. J & D-Rob.

The fact that he has been a complete beast in the playoffs his whole life gives him the edge over D-Rob (who never really elevated his game) and Dr. J. Of course one could argue those two over Dirk...NOW. But it's debatable. How you seem to think he could never pass either (if you deem him behind now) is straight laughable.

It's all debatable. I just don't think he can ever pass either (D-Rob or Dr J) because there are two sides of a basketball court. D-Rob is one of the greatest defenders that we have ever seen and Doc was also good defensively. And their offensive numbers are right there with Dirk's. And they have both won an MVP. Now of course if the Mavs go on some title spree or something well then everything changes. But I'm trying not to go that route, because if I do then I may as well say LeBron is going to leap Dirk if he wins a title (I didn't have him in the top 15, and he has better numbers, plays D, more MVP's and is really only missing the ring).

If you agree with me on the first 12 guys, and not the last 2, there are still guys like:

Karl Malone - Do you really rank Dirk over him? No title, but he lost to Jordan and Hakeem.
Barkley - Do you really rank Dirk over him? No title, but he lost to Jordan and Hakeem.
Isiah - He led his team to two titles and beat Larry, Magic and Jordan to get them. No MVP's, but no one was winning MVP's at that time except for Larry, Magic and Jordan.
Elgin Baylor - Kinda hard to compare eras but a lot of old-timers have him as a top 10 player, right along with Oscar and West
Jerry West
Drexler - Led his team to two Finals and won one in a supporting role
John Stockton

That top 20 range is no joke.

Brave Sir Robin · 06-22-2011, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

If you agree with me on the first 12 guys, and not the last 2, there are still guys like:

forget about all the title-counting and imagine each of those 12 guys on the mavericks teams of the last 5 years (no star-stacked lakers, bulls, celtics, spurs, pistons). maybe half of them would have done better than dirk without playing on a quasi all-star team. i mean can you really imagine shaq leading the mavericks to a title?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

Karl Malone, Barkley, Isiah, Elgin Baylor, Drexler, John Stockton

yes, dirk ranks above these guys (except for isiah thomas).

if dirk had a better defense, there would be no doubt about top 10, as it is dirk is at least top 20.

mavspwnage · 06-22-2011, 10:02 AM

Dirk is top eins.

xrobx · 06-22-2011, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

Karl Malone - Do you really rank Dirk over him? No title, but he lost to Jordan and Hakeem.
Barkley - Do you really rank Dirk over him? No title, but he lost to Jordan and Hakeem.

Dirk - No title, but he lost to Kobe Bryant coached by Phil Jackson, Kevin Durant, LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh

oh wait....he actually beat the superstars of his era in one playoffs and one superteam

Murphy3 · 06-22-2011, 10:21 AM

Here's the thing when rating Dirk.. The regular season numbers are comparable to the guys you're comparing him to. But, his post season numbers really set him apart from many of the players listed on the top 25 lists.

kingmalaki · 06-22-2011, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrobx

Dirk - No title, but he lost to Kobe Bryant coached by Phil Jackson, Kevin Durant, LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh

oh wait....he actually beat the superstars of his era in one playoffs and one superteam

None of the people that you named are better than Jordan or Hakeem. None of their teams that Dirk beat this season are better than the Bulls teams that denied Malone and Barkley from winning in the Finals. If you are giving Dirk the nod due to him having a title and Malone and Barkley not having one, then you need to take the era into consideration.

Underdog · 06-22-2011, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

None of the people that you named are better than Jordan or Hakeem.

Yeah, but Jordan and Hakeem weren't on the SAME TEAM.

Dirk just beat 2 of the top-5 active players in the league, not to mention another top-30 talent in Bosh, and he didn't have anyone resembling the talents of Pippen or McHale by his side.

kingmalaki · 06-22-2011, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Here's the thing when rating Dirk.. The regular season numbers are comparable to the guys you're comparing him to. But, his post season numbers really set him apart from many of the players listed on the top 25 lists.

That is a very good point. I don't think his postseason numbers set him apart from the guys in that 10-20 range. Maybe for the guys in the 20-30 range.

Dirk's postseason numbers are 25, 10, 3 on 46%, 38% and 89%. This was arguably his best postseason. Those postseason numbers aren't really any better than the postseason numbers of Malone, Barkley, West, Dr J, Baylor, etc. And Dirk hasn't hit his decline yet like some of those guys, so his playoff numbers will drop some.

fluid.forty.one · 06-22-2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

None of the people that you named are better than Jordan or Hakeem. None of their teams that Dirk beat this season are better than the Bulls teams that denied Malone and Barkley from winning in the Finals. If you are giving Dirk the nod due to him having a title and Malone and Barkley not having one, then you need to take the era into consideration.

Malone played 18 years in Utah. He lost to Jordan twice. 16 other chances to get a ring.

Barkley played on 3 different teams trying to get a ring and played Jordan in the finals once (I think). I think he also lost to Jordan in a previous round one time as well while in Philly, but still it's not like that was the only team keeping Barkley from a ring.

I don't really care that they lost to Hakeem... Honestly I think beating Kobe/Durant/LeBron/Wade is more impressive than beating Hakeem.

Dirk has better playoff numbers than Malone and didn't have nearly the second star that Malone did and Dirk won it anyway. Barkley and Dirk's numbers are comparable, which makes the ONE ring between the both of them the deal breaker.

btw LOL at implying that Drexler could be ranked above Dirk.

SMC0007 · 06-22-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Then what did you think it was a list of?

Greatest players of all time, with Dirk in particular order... Ya Cork.

kingmalaki · 06-22-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, but Jordan and Hakeem weren't on the SAME TEAM.

Dirk just beat 2 of the top-5 active players in the league, not to mention another top-30 talent in Bosh, and he didn't have anyone resembling the talents of Pippen or McHale by his side.

True, but this isn't one of the years where Dirk had no team. The Heat had 3 of the best 4 players and the Mavs had all the rest. The Mavs had the better "team". Marion and Terry were basically matching LeBron's production in some of the Finals games. Terry may not be a star but he gave you 18 a night on 48% and 44% shooting this postseason. Didn't you guys, as a team, shoot around 40% from beyond the arc or something this postseason? Dirk had plenty of help, as far as how his team stepped up and played. Would you rather have had LeBron, in name, playing like garbage in the Finals or Terry playing how he played in the Finals?

It's true that Dirk has a title and Malone and Barkley don't. But I don't see Dirk winning a title in that era either.

kingmalaki · 06-22-2011, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robin

forget about all the title-counting and imagine each of those 12 guys on the mavericks teams of the last 5 years (no star-stacked lakers, bulls, celtics, spurs, pistons). maybe half of them would have done better than dirk without playing on a quasi all-star team. i mean can you really imagine shaq leading the mavericks to a title?

I'm not really judging by titles. I think titles are a team accomplishment. I'm judging by what a player can do on the court. Dirk is great one one side of the court. Most of the players that I'm mentioning were also great on that one side of the court but also pretty good, or great, defensively. And they all have numbers comparable (most better) than Dirk, have also won MVPs, etc. Most have won titles too.

I just think the top 15-20 is pretty hard to crack. But I agree that it's all debatable.

fluid.forty.one · 06-22-2011, 12:18 PM

The fact that you threw Drexler and Stockton into the mix either shows that you're an idiot or your bias.

Take it to another thread.. this one is a celebration of Dirk's awesomeness.

Underdog · 06-22-2011, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

True, but this isn't one of the years where Dirk had no team. The Heat had 3 of the best 4 players and the Mavs had all the rest. The Mavs had the better "team". Marion and Terry were basically matching LeBron's production in some of the Finals games. Terry may not be a star but he gave you 18 a night on 48% and 44% shooting this postseason. Didn't you guys, as a team, shoot around 40% from beyond the arc or something this postseason? Dirk had plenty of help, as far as how his team stepped up and played. Would you rather have had LeBron, in name, playing like garbage in the Finals or Terry playing how he played in the Finals?

Every single team that ever won a championship had a better "team" - it's not like Jordan or Bird carried those squads to victory by themselves...

Why does Dirk lose points for Terry having a good playoff run, but nobody else loses points for their teammates stepping up? By that standard, Tim Duncan is ridiculously overrated because Robert Horry hit all those big shots in the playoffs...

GTFO and take your straw man with you.

sike · 06-22-2011, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrobx

Dirk - No title, but he lost to Kobe Bryant coached by Phil Jackson, Kevin Durant, LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh

oh wait....he actually beat the superstars of his era in one playoffs and one superteam

I love this post.

sike · 06-22-2011, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

The fact that you threw Drexler and Stockton into the mix either shows that you're an idiot or your bias.

I don't mean to dignify the absurd comparison between Clyde and Dirk...and I like Clyde, but the fact is that he tied his wagon to Hakeem (arguably a top 10 all time player) to win his rings...Dirk won his without as much as another All Star.

Sheesh.

kingmalaki · 06-22-2011, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Malone played 18 years in Utah. He lost to Jordan twice. 16 other chances to get a ring.

Malone entered the league in 85. Over the next 14 seasons, only 4 teams won titles (Celtics, Pistons, Lakers, Bulls, Rockets). I don't see Dirk beating any of those teams either. The weakest one were the Rocket teams, and I don't see him going through Hakeem the way he was playing in 94/95.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Barkley played on 3 different teams trying to get a ring and played Jordan in the finals once (I think). I think he also lost to Jordan in a previous round one time as well while in Philly, but still it's not like that was the only team keeping Barkley from a ring.

Barkley entered the league in 84. See the Malone explanation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I don't really care that they lost to Hakeem... Honestly I think beating Kobe/Durant/LeBron/Wade is more impressive than beating Hakeem.

None of those players have ever had a postseason as good as Hakeem had in 94 and 95 (when he beat Malone and Barkley). And Hakeem didn't have any kep players dissapear in the series like Gasol did for LA, or LeBron did for Miami. The Rockets also had a fairly balanced team, unlike Miami for example. Neither of those teams is beating the 94/95 Rockets in a series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Dirk has better playoff numbers than Malone and didn't have nearly the second star that Malone did and Dirk won it anyway. Barkley and Dirk's numbers are comparable, which makes the ONE ring between the both of them the deal breaker.

Dirk does not have better playoff numbers than Karl Malone. You are looking at his career numbers, which includes his post prime years. Dirk's playoff numbers will drop. I agree that Dirk didn't have the 2nd star that Malone did, but it seems like you are bumping him over Malone and Barkley based on him winning a title. Do you see Dirk winning a title in their era?

Using the same criteria, if LeBron wins a title next year then would you leap him over Dirk since he has better playoff numbers and they would both have a title?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

btw LOL at implying that Drexler could be ranked above Dirk.

Drexler led his team to two Finals and also has a championship. Drexler played defense, could score and was also a great facilitator (6 apg avg). He, similar to Malone, got caught in the Magic/Bird/Jordan era.

fluid.forty.one · 06-22-2011, 12:32 PM

Like I said, take this to a different thread. This thread is about Dirk's greatness. You're stinking up the place.