Cowboys vs. Atlanta Gameday Thread - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Evilmav2 · 09-07-2003, 06:51 PM

Carter calling that time-out with 2:01 left on the clock was classic...

FilthyFinMavs · 09-07-2003, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Evilmav2
Carter calling that time-out with 2:01 left on the clock was classic...

I'm not trying to be a smartass or anything but that was considered a dumb play because we should've started play before hte 2 minute warning right? If not than I don't see what was so bad about the play. He simply didn't know what to do. That timeout could'v been saved. I think after that everyone just gave up even though most did that when we missed the 1 pt field goal.

QCarFan · 09-07-2003, 07:47 PM

1 guy can only do so much, he didnt play well but definitely not all his fault today. the turnovers were definitely bad but please give the guy some help. where was troy ham? why isnt cason starting? is allen going to join this pathetic line ever again for a full game? carter was getting tagged left and right back there. he threw for 268 yards, definitely not the best, but not to bad. the 2 TOs hurt, but the defense wasnt all it was cracked up to be either. bottom line is, he will need to step up, with the other 52 people on this roster. the cowboys shouldnt count on him to save the day every game. no one can do that, not even the best who have ever played the game.

Drbio · 09-07-2003, 07:58 PM

Nice backtrack Qsparefan....what about the 10-6 record? I'm really awash in anticipation to hear you spin that 10-6 record prediction. We had the crow all cooked and ready to eat, but it just didn't get served. Why? Because Carter blew chunks. Can you finally admit that Qspare sucks? Can you finally admit it without trying to turn it into a Qspare-Hutch argument since everyone else has stipulated that Hutch sucks worse? Can you finally admit that we will be one of the worst teams in the league at the quarterback position?

aexchange · 09-07-2003, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Drbio
Nice backtrack Qsparefan....what about the 10-6 record? I'm really awash in anticipation to hear you spin that 10-6 record prediction. We had the crow all cooked and ready to eat, but it just didn't get served. Why? Because Carter blew chunks. Can you finally admit that Qspare sucks? Can you finally admit it without trying to turn it into a Qspare-Hutch argument since everyone else has stipulated that Hutch sucks worse? Can you finally admit that we will be one of the worst teams in the league at the quarterback position?

we're still better than chicago!

yay!

Drbio · 09-07-2003, 08:04 PM

Oh boy...we're number 27! Yeah!

QCarFan · 09-07-2003, 08:44 PM

i still say 10-6, but do I really need to go back in the old threads to cook up some crow that SHOULD HAVE been already eaten by you? no, i dont think so. and no, im really yet to hear you say you were wrong about who was better between hutch and carter. and i didnt mention hutchinson one time in my post, nor have i ever called him a different name just to get kicks out of people. when i made a prediction, i made it for the cowboys. not just quincy, he needs help to do anything. if they are expected him to save the day every day, then iit wont happen. he isnt that good, but who is? football is a team game, it requires everyone to step up. carter has to step up, as well as the other 52 guys on the roster. the coaches need to as well, i dont know if you know it, but this is a team game buddy. i dont get to come here as much as you do obviously, but just wait until after the season and i will admit if i was wrong or not about the record. or if and when they lose 7 games, i will admit it then.

QCarFan · 09-07-2003, 08:49 PM

i say 10-6, because thats what i said originally. i dont go back and forth, or knee-jerk after one loss like some. i say something, and stick to it. if i am wrong, i will admit it. just wish everyone would do the same outright, instead of beating around the bush and easing it in there. trust me, i will be the first to admit i was wrong. i am going to take parcells words on this one, and about quincys performance. he didnt play well, its that simple. but other teams have won, with far worse performances from their qb than that. he didnt have a poor game imo, as well as bill parcells. he has to get ready for next week, hopefully he plays better and get help from the other 52 players, and all the coaches. just my 0.02

mavsfanforever · 09-07-2003, 08:56 PM

Quote:

[i] he isnt that good, but who is? football is a team game, it requires everyone to step up.

Jut for the record, I would say Michael Vick is that good. Marshall Faulk is that good. Priest Holmes is that good. Other than that I do agree that he isn't as good as Michael Vick.

I actually have to say that our special teams and defense in the second half were some of the major reasons we lost this game.

FilthyFinMavs · 09-07-2003, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: mavsfanforever

Quote:

[i] he isnt that good, but who is? football is a team game, it requires everyone to step up.

Jut for the record, I would say Michael Vick is that good. Marshall Faulk is that good. Priest Holmes is that good. Other than that I do agree that he isn't as good as Michael Vick.

I actually have to say that our special teams and defense in the second half were some of the major reasons we lost this game.

You could also argue that the offense put the defense into those situations that gave up touchdowns to the Falcons. I agree however Carter contributed into that loss but I can go down a list of others who participated.

Simon2 · 09-07-2003, 09:07 PM

The missed field goal really sapped the life out of the Boys! The field goal block was worse.

QCarFan · 09-07-2003, 09:07 PM

none of those guys above are good enough to win the game all by thereself. no one who has ever played the game is good enough to win it all alone. sure it always help to have people as good as they are individually but none of them are good enough to take on a team of 53 players week in and week out and be sucessful. thats what some are expecting quincy to do, and he wont because he isnt that good. but again, who is? if everyone steps up, which always starts with the qb, this team has a chance to win on any given day.

QCarFan · 09-07-2003, 09:12 PM

and sure the offense put them in those positions but still, the defense did not play well today at all. they never stoped the falcons when we really needed a stop. its not like they took over at the cowboys 20 or anything. they had 50+ to go most of the time, and on punts even further than that most of the time. unless the special teams let them get in big returns. all im saying is the defense was cracked up to be really good, and i just didnt see that today. doug johnson is no michael vick, i really wouldve hated to see this defense from today try and stop him and the falcons offense.

mavsfanforever · 09-07-2003, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: QCarFan
none of those guys above are good enough to win the game all by thereself. no one who has ever played the game is good enough to win it all alone. sure it always help to have people as good as they are individually but none of them are good enough to take on a team of 53 players week in and week out and be sucessful. thats what some are expecting quincy to do, and he wont because he isnt that good. but again, who is? if everyone steps up, which always starts with the qb, this team has a chance to win on any given day.

I probably missed those posts but can you show the links where people said that they expect Quincy to do those things.

You are making obvious points here. Noone can win the game by themselves. But there is something called building a franchise around a guy. You build your offense around guys like Faulk, Vick, Holmes or Michael Jordan, A-ROD, Barry Bonds. Let me point out that we do not have a single player on offense around whom we can built this team.

QCarFan · 09-07-2003, 09:33 PM

EXACTLY, so it will take all 53 players on the roster. With guys like the above, all you need is a couple solid pieces around them and you can compete week in and week out. Carter is not them, and should not be expected to be them. It will take a team effort for the Cowboys to compete since he dont have "that" guy. And again, once everyone steps up from top to bottom then we have a chance to win on any given day. Of couse, it all starts with your starting QB as far as players go, but he needs the other 52 players to help him if he is going to be even remotely sucessful. That's all I am saying, no more no less.

Drbio · 09-07-2003, 09:35 PM

It might be what you are saying NOW.

QCarFan · 09-07-2003, 09:55 PM

and what did I say then? When have I ever said that everyone should move out of the way and get on the sidelines because Quincy Carter can do it all alone? When did I put him up with some of the better players to ever play the game, or that is playing now? I wont debate/discuss anything esle with you until then. Show something to back up what you said, and we will go from there.

Drbio · 09-07-2003, 10:00 PM

now that's a pathetic backtrack.....you stroke Qspare johnson on basically every one of your posts.....there's no need to waste time proving otherwise.

QCarFan · 09-07-2003, 10:09 PM

exactly as I thought drbio, Thank You very much my good man!

Drbio · 09-07-2003, 10:15 PM

There is another fallacy. That you think. We know how to look through bullcrap. I just don't want to start up another rediculous pissing match about the shittiest quarterback in the NFL. The facts are what they are. You stroke Qspare johnson wiht the vast majority of your posts and he is not a good NFL qb. Unfortunately, he is the best option that the cowboys have right now. But he sucks beyond description.

QCarFan · 09-07-2003, 10:21 PM

if he is the shittiest then what does that say about your guy pal? Or have you backtracked and jumped off the Hutchinson bandwaggon, seeing how I read a few of your old posts on the two QBs, and you were definitely behind this guy at one point?

Drbio · 09-07-2003, 10:29 PM

Qdumbarsefan- I was behind giving Chad a shot last season and thought coming into this season that he deserved to start (based on last years play and potential). Then, Qspare outplayed him this preseason and earned the starting nod. It's very unfortunate that they both suck but all of my posts are consistent with this line of thought.

As for your broken record blind ass unintelligent assertion that he is "my guy", you are off base yet again, but broken records tend not to change their tune. I've never once stated that Hutch was "my guy". If we could somehow nab Brunell or basically any serviceable QB, it would warm my heart to cut both of our suck ass QB's and watch them fall out of the league in days, not months. You just have such a blind ass manlove for Qspare that you can't objectively state that both of them are bad quarterbacks. It's your problem. Basically everyone else is saying the same thing. Both QB's suck. It's just that the majority of us can say it objectively without getting a boner for just one of the guys like you are doing. An objective criticism of your favorite player doesn't sit well with you. Blindly following a player is ok I suppose, but don't expect people not to criticise a player that sucks. Qspare sucks. That is completely exclusive from those same people's critique of other players. Try to get past that please.

FilthyFinMavs · 09-07-2003, 10:40 PM

I'm not trying to start anything here but I have 2 questions i've been wondering all day. How did Hutch earn 4 mill a year without anyone even seeing him play other than college? The other is how did Flozell Adams get a contract like he has with us actually seeing how he plays? I hope when Parcells time is up JJ doesn't go back to that whole phase he had about being a GM.

Drbio · 09-07-2003, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
I'm not trying to start anything here but I have 2 questions i've been wondering all day. How did Hutch earn 4 mill a year without anyone even seeing him play other than college? The other is how did Flozell Adams get a contract like he has with us actually seeing how he plays? I hope when Parcells time is up JJ doesn't go back to that whole phase he had about being a GM.

Good questions. The Cowboys were not the only team following Hutch as a potential QB. he had a nice career in college. I think we can all agree to that point. The problem was not taking a chance on the guy, the problem was Jerry Jones thinking he knew more than football guys. Jones handcuffed us and overspent on Hutch to get him here so he could look like a good GM thinking that Hutch was going to be a stud QB. I seem to remember about Adams that he was about to be a FA after his best season and we locked him up because our line was going to be weak if not. Wasn't that the year we lost tow other linemen? Not sure about that, but it all goes back to Jerry Jones wanting to be a GM when he is not qualified to be one. Sure he is entitled to be since he owns the team, but he is in no way qualified to be GM. So I agree with you about him not returning to GM duties.

QCarFan · 09-07-2003, 10:51 PM

sure drbio, I have already went to far, I rather not trade insults with you. You on the other hand can care less, and would obviously love to trade insults but I wont be the one you are trading them with. I say let's just wait to seasons' end to judge Carters performance. One game doesn't determine how good or bad he is.

FilthyFinMavs · 09-07-2003, 10:53 PM

Another guy you can put in that mix of who had a Carter-like game is Drew Brees. HE had I believe 209 yards and 2 interceptions along with 2 touchdowns.

MFFL · 09-07-2003, 10:55 PM

To point out that other people had sucky days does not reduce the suckiness factor of Carter today.

FilthyFinMavs · 09-07-2003, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Drbio

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
I'm not trying to start anything here but I have 2 questions i've been wondering all day. How did Hutch earn 4 mill a year without anyone even seeing him play other than college? The other is how did Flozell Adams get a contract like he has with us actually seeing how he plays? I hope when Parcells time is up JJ doesn't go back to that whole phase he had about being a GM.

Good questions. The Cowboys were not the only team following Hutch as a potential QB. he had a nice career in college. I think we can all agree to that point. The problem was not taking a chance on the guy, the problem was Jerry Jones thinking he knew more than football guys. Jones handcuffed us and overspent on Hutch to get him here so he could look like a good GM thinking that Hutch was going to be a stud QB. I seem to remember about Adams that he was about to be a FA after his best season and we locked him up because our line was going to be weak if not. Wasn't that the year we lost tow other linemen? Not sure about that, but it all goes back to Jerry Jones wanting to be a GM when he is not qualified to be one. Sure he is entitled to be since he owns the team, but he is in no way qualified to be GM. So I agree with you about him not returning to GM duties.

Why does that Hutch story sound so much like Carter's story? JJ is afraid another team will take his qb of the future so he overpays or drafts the guy to who high.

Drbio · 09-07-2003, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MFFL
To point out that other people had sucky days does not reduce the suckiness factor of Carter today.

Or his historic level of suckdom.

QCarFan · 09-07-2003, 11:06 PM

THIS one game does not make or break his career, this SEASON may. Lets judge him then, because the same people wont have this much, if anything at all to say if and when he bounces back with a good game next week.

Drbio · 09-07-2003, 11:12 PM

That is where you are wrong. If Qspare has a breakout game next week I will be here to give him props. I doubt it happens, but we can all hope. The problem with Qspare having a breakout game is that guys like you will come in yelling "eat the crow...eat the crow". You did it after the Raider PRESEASON game and I know you will do it when Qcrappy has the inevitably decent game. The funny thing is, that you cannot allow yourself to state the fact that Qspare sucked today, but you would rather pathetically attempt to spin the bad news into crapola like "it's a 53 man team" etc. You completely ignore the fact that everyone has been posting praise for Qsucks when he does well (which is sadly not very often). You completely ignore the fact that when he plays crappy, it's fair to criticize the guy. Today, he sucked. He gets the wrath of the fans for it. Your boner for supporting him notwithstanding.

FilthyFinMavs · 09-07-2003, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MFFL
To point out that other people had sucky days does not reduce the suckiness factor of Carter today.

That was not my intentions when posting what other people did. I posted them because people act like the world is going to end because Carter had a bad game. We can't judge how he is going to be playing the rest of the season after one game just like you can't judge those other guys. Cason isn't going to average 35 yards a carry every game. Thats all I was stating.

Drbio · 09-07-2003, 11:22 PM

FFM- that point is given. BUT, Qspare didn't have his first bad game today. He has a history of bad, good, bad, bad, bad, fair, bad, etc games.

Noone is rating the guy on one game.

FilthyFinMavs · 09-07-2003, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Drbio
That is where you are wrong. If Qspare has a breakout game next week I will be here to give him props. I doubt it happens, but we can all hope. The problem with Qspare having a breakout game is that guys like you will come in yelling "eat the crow...eat the crow". You did it after the Raider PRESEASON game and I know you will do it when Qcrappy has the inevitably decent game. The funny thing is, that you cannot allow yourself to state the fact that Qspare sucked today, but you would rather pathetically attempt to spin the bad news into crapola like "it's a 53 man team" etc. You completely ignore the fact that everyone has been posting praise for Qsucks when he does well (which is sadly not very often). You completely ignore the fact that when he plays crappy, it's fair to criticize the guy. Today, he sucked. He gets the wrath of the fans for it. Your boner for supporting him notwithstanding.

But be honest. He is doing the exact same thing that posters have done here today. He praised Carter for his Raider game and gloated somewhat. Well Carter has a bad game and people are bashing him and you are hearing the I told you so's. Its nothing different. Just a different purpose behind them.

QCarFan · 09-07-2003, 11:30 PM

Good post FFM

I am tired of wasting my time replying to drbios post, hell it has given me a headache. Its a waste of time quite honestly, luckily(for him) I have nothing else to do at this current time.

Drbio · 09-07-2003, 11:31 PM

gloated somewhat? That is like saying the Pope is somewhat catholic.

Come on FFM....your point is valid, but it's not really the same. This guy showed up at a basketball board only after a lot of Qspare bashing. That bashing was well deserved based on results. Noone can post stats on Qspare that show him to be a good quarterback. The Cowboys fan base INSISTS on results and Carter has not performed up to Cowboy fan standards. Fair or not, that is the way it is. Carter has shown he is not consistent. Fans demand results. The criticism is not confined to this board. Go read the dallasnews.com Cowboy forum. They are being much more brutal than we are. It's time for the Cowboys to admit we have zero good quarterbacks on the roster. it's time to get a guy in here that can play. Neither hutch nor carter are that guy and I have no idea if Romo can develop.

QCarFan · 09-07-2003, 11:35 PM

But I am actually here taking it all, not going anywhere. But most wont come around, and definitely wont have anything to say when he has a good game. And I actually said he didn't play well, and will have to step up next game as well as the rest.

Drbio · 09-07-2003, 11:37 PM

No, you aren't taking it. You have thus far made several excuses and attempted to direct the blame away from the QB by making statements like, "It takes 53", etc.

"Taking it" involves an open admission that Qspare sucked eggs today and that he he was awful...not that he played ok or played not up to his potential or whatever. You would demand no less from us when (if) he ever plays well. Acknowledge that he sucked without the qualifying statement (Ex. others need to step up too).

Who are the "MOST" that you are referring to?

FilthyFinMavs · 09-07-2003, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Drbio
gloated somewhat? That is like saying the Pope is somewhat catholic.

Come on FFM....your point is valid, but it's not really the same. This guy showed up at a basketball board only after a lot of Qspare bashing. That bashing was well deserved based on results. Noone can post stats on Qspare that show him to be a good quarterback. The Cowboys fan base INSISTS on results and Carter has not performed up to Cowboy fan standards. Fair or not, that is the way it is. Carter has shown he is not consistent. Fans demand results. The criticism is not confined to this board. Go read the dallasnews.com Cowboy forum. They are being much more brutal than we are. It's time for the Cowboys to admit we have zero good quarterbacks on the roster. it's time to get a guy in here that can play. Neither hutch nor carter are that guy and I have no idea if Romo can develop.

I can't disagree with anything here. I have no stats to back up Carter being a good qb. However I can say he has played 16 games. Now thats no excuse for Carter. To be honest I can't really even say when is the time for a qb to develop. It takes some a season and it takes some a couple of seasons (Aikman). I believe Bill will make Carter a much better qb when its all said and done its just going to take time. I think Bill knows what it takes to make a good qb. For us Quincy fans I think we have to take inconsideration that Bill has never been brought into a situation and kept that same qb that was already on that team. That alone doesn't look good for Carter but I got faith in the guy. I'm not going to say he is the next Mike Vick but i'm going to take it a step at a time. His line doesn't look that bad but you can thank the recievers for that. He threw some nice balls out there today and threw some bad ones. I need more time to evaluate Carter. Give him the season and hopefully he has shown something.

Drbio · 09-07-2003, 11:54 PM

Again...fair enough FFM. It really boils down to the fact that we are saying much of the same things, but that you like Carter (which is fine) and I and others don't think he is any good (which is fine too).

In 2 years when the Cowboys are in the playoffs again, Carter will probably be out of the league or serving time as a bachup somewhere carrying a clipboard. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]