John Salley on how to stop Dirk - "hit him hard" - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

mffl03 · 03-23-2007, 02:29 PM

3/22

ESPN Radio: Randy Galloway and Co.

John Salley is on a phone interview with his big promotion with TIVO. He gave the station some TIVOs to give away and a special promotion...so that had me hooked.

Then they got to basketball talk....I don't know how I made it through another one of Galloway's interview's though. They are so bad with his snorting, breathing, and random off topic comments.....

When John Salley was asked what he'd do to STOP Dirk, he replied "hit him in the ribs as hard as I can". Then he proceeded to say it 2 more times "hit him in the ribs as hard as I can to stop his scoring ways. It's what I used to do, and it's what worked back in the day."

He called it the real "manly basketball" that they used to play. Wow, well that just sounds like basketball I wouldn't like to watch in the first place.

Why don't we just hire someone to break his ankles while we're at it. Or better yet, just threaten his family the old mafia way. That worked back in the day too.

The other key's he provided seemed somewhat more logical. "Make him play D so that he has more of an opportunity to foul out," and "put more pressure on him offensively to shut him down"

Galloway did mention that the team played excellent TEAM D, so Dirk didn't have to be the solo stopper to each player. But forgot to mention that other people on the team could take over the game just as easily as Dirk can offensively.

Flacolaco · 03-23-2007, 02:31 PM

I'm sure somewhere, Amare and Bowen are taking notes

Thespiralgoeson · 03-23-2007, 02:35 PM

You're taking it too seriously, mffl03. I hear that interview too, and Salley was clearly chuckling when he said these things. I think he was really just joking that Dirk is practically unguardable. He then got a little more serious and said the only way to slow Dirk down is to make him play defense.

jleefilled · 03-23-2007, 02:36 PM

Dirk would have lit up Sally for fifty if he tried to hit his ribs.

mffl03 · 03-23-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

You're taking it too seriously, mffl03. I hear that interview too, and Salley was clearly chuckling when he said these things. I think he was really just joking that Dirk is practically unguardable. He then got a little more serious and said the only way to slow Dirk down is to make him play defense.

Take it too seriously? He said it like 3 times in a row. He said it with a stern voice the first time. Then the commentators started laughing going "are you serious?" He said it again and again.

Just obviously not what David Stern would endorse in the first place, not that I endorse David Stern either...but you know what I mean.

And Dirk's not gonna play stupid defense, he'll get help, he'll back off or switch. Plus the whole all-star treatment, I just can't see Dirk EVER fouling out.

left texas · 03-23-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I'm sure somewhere, Amare and Bowen are taking notes

I can see Bowen now, Dirk up for a jump shot, Bowen runs underneath him, fakes a slip, headbutts Dirk in the midsection, resulting in two broken ribs. Bowen says he was just playing hard D. and Dirks a pansy. Bowen gets a game suspension from Stern. Nba officials, spurs fans, national media all upset with the game suspension. It was just hard D.

Flacolaco · 03-23-2007, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left texas

I can see Bowen now, Dirk up for a jump shot, Bowen runs underneath him, fakes a slip, headbutts Dirk in the midsection, resulting in two broken ribs. Bowen says he was just playing hard D. and Dirks a pansy. Bowen gets a game suspension from Stern. Nba officials, spurs fans, national media all upset with the game suspension. It was just hard D.

I'm sure it takes every ounce of restraint that man has in his body not to wear his brass knuckles on the court

jacktruth · 03-23-2007, 02:52 PM

What it says to me is that the only way to stop Dirk is to play dirty.

That's the only way the 1988-1990 Pistons played. Rodman, Lambier, Mahorn, Edwards, Sally. They were all thugs, but one helluva basketball team.

mffl03 · 03-23-2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left texas

I can see Bowen now, Dirk up for a jump shot, Bowen runs underneath him, fakes a slip, headbutts Dirk in the midsection, resulting in two broken ribs. Bowen says he was just playing hard D. and Dirks a pansy. Bowen gets a game suspension from Stern. Nba officials, spurs fans, national media all upset with the game suspension. It was just hard D.

Yeah, just you starting to point that up is scaring me. But remember we do have different options and better passing this year. I think the spurs are now the weakest at their center. So I think we start out with having devin wear out parker, bring in barea to run around as well. Throw in Damp, then Pops (to get some hard fouls in) and then Diop. Attack the basket through point guards and through the centers.

Start with that, if it's not working then start swinging the ball and let Terry try and take over. Taking the focus off of Dirk helps big time. Defenses get confused on who to the cover more, and we just spread the floor like we've been doing.

Usually Lurkin · 03-23-2007, 03:11 PM

2 things jump to my mind.
1) TMac saying that he thinks more teams should play defense like the mavs, with hidden elbows, scratches, pulls, and all out attempts to make the game their own (paraphrase).
2) Shaq throwing elbows into Dirks jaw until Dirk slowed down.

mffl03 · 03-23-2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

2 things jump to my mind.
1) TMac saying that he thinks more teams should play defense like the mavs, with hidden elbows, scratches, pulls, and all out attempts to make the game their own (paraphrase).
2) Shaq throwing elbows into Dirks jaw until Dirk slowed down.

I don't know if T-mac went into that depth. He just said it politely because he respects our team. It was more along the lines of "they play dirty. But it's a good dirty, just enough to give them an edge over the other team"

I really don't remember anything about the hidden elbows, scratches, pulls and what not....

This guy stuck up for us in what happened in the finals last year. If you haven't heard the radio interview...look for it. He thought there was something wrong with the officiating and wasn't afraid to say it.

"You just got fined....You just got fined" = the radio host.

"I don't care," = T-Mac

He said he respected our team after that 7 game series we had with them that one play off year, and wanted us to win the finals. Errr...you know for just rooting for the western conference.

We all know what he meant though.

wmbwinn · 03-23-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mffl03

I don't know if T-mac went into that depth. He just said it politely because he respects our team. It was more along the lines of "they play dirty. But it's a good dirty, just enough to give them an edge over the other team"

I really don't remember anything about the hidden elbows, scratches, pulls and what not....

This guy stuck up for us in what happened in the finals last year. If you haven't heard the radio interview...look for it. He thought there was something wrong with the officiating and wasn't afraid to say it.

"You just got fined....You just got fined" = the radio host.

"I don't care," = T-Mac

He said he respected our team after that 7 game series we had with them that one play off year, and wanted us to win the finals. Errr...you know for just rooting for the western conference.

We all know what he meant though.

The scouting report on Dirk has never changed. The way to play Dirk has always been to
1)beat him up
2)get him in foul trouble by giving the ball to whoever he is guarding and mix up the players on the floor so that Dirk is guarding someone he can't guard (to increase the odds of foul trouble).
3)make him work on defense.

Before this team had a center (or two or three), it was easy to accomplish all of those goals. In the past, Dirk would find himself guarding Amare, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, etc. The Mavs didn't have other players who could guard those players. So, Dirk was the man.
In the playoffs this last year, the Spurs played BigShotRob and tried to get Dirk to foul him by feeding him on offense. The Mavs used Diop and Dampier to handle Tim.

The Bowens of the world play Dirk to hurt him or at least push him around. When Dirk has the ball on the low post, the forwards and centers down there hit Dirk hard. They always do.

But, things have changed.
1)We have centers and SF's who can guard just about anyone (except Yao and we struggle with the Diesel but he is manageable now).
2)Dirk's coach is AJ now. Dirk fights now.
3)Dirk never uses pain or injury to miss games. Dirk never slows down.
4)The team plays team defense. Gone are the days when Dirk tried to play solo defense on Tim Duncan or the double team consisted of Alan Henderson (too short although a good defense/rebound man) and Dirk or the famous duo of Dirk and Sean Bradley. It is essentially unthinkable now that any team in the NBA can dream up any scenario where Dirk has to guard someone he can't guard. Dirk has not been in foul trouble all year.

So, the old scouting report on Dirk is a scouting report the Mavs know well. The Mavs have fixed the team in a way where the strategies against Dirk don't work anymore...

you can't get Dirk in foul trouble
you can't force Dirk to play defense against someone he can't handle
you can't force Dirk to lose steam playing defense in an impossible situation.
so far, no one has hurt Dirk badly enough to cause him to step out and stay out.
and, no team has enough skilled solo defenders to handle Dirk AND Terry AND Howard AND Stack.

And, VERY IMPORTANT, Alonzo Mourning can't ignore Diop and Dampier anymore and play a constant double team on Dirk. The Mavs' coaches are good. They spent the offseason and this entire season turning Dampier into an offensive threat just dangerous enough to prevent centers from doubling on Dirk...

If Dampier and Diop could have scored last year, the Heat would have lost big time to the Mavs. But, last year, Dampier couldn't catch a ball. Last year, the only player who ever passed the ball to Dampier with the intent for Dampier to score was Stackhouse and occasionally Dirk. This year, the offense is constantly looking for Dampier. Dampier still sets the best picks in the NBA. Now, Dampier is rolling off of those picks and taking Dirk's pass fora huge dunk. The defensive center can't ignore Damp now and double on Dirk in picks. Now, Dampier is playing ball....

mffl03 · 03-23-2007, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

T
you can't get Dirk in foul trouble
you can't force Dirk to play defense against someone he can't handle
you can't force Dirk to lose steam playing defense in an impossible situation.
so far, no one has hurt Dirk badly enough to cause him to step out and stay out.
and, no team has enough skilled solo defenders to handle Dirk AND Terry AND Howard AND Stack.

"only a sith deals in absolutes...."

wmbwinn · 03-23-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mffl03

"only a sith deals in absolutes...."

Name any one example this year or in last year's playoffs where any team was able to:
1)play a set of players that forced Dirk to play defense on a player he couldn't handle (like a Tim Duncan or Pau Gasol).
2)get Dirk in foul trouble
3)put Dirk out of a game for a significant time period
4)cause Dirk to play timidly
5)stop Dirk from playing offense and defense in/near the paint and everywhere else

All I said is that the Mavs' front office has built a team that prevents the official scout report on Dirk from being plausible.

No one can put a set of players on the court that forces Dirk to play defense on someone where he has to foul in desperation. No one has put Dirk in foul trouble. No one has worn out Dirk by making him work hard on defense. No one has intimidated Dirk.

Alonzo Mourning is why the Heat won last year. Zo doubled Dirk and ignored Damp/Diop. Zo is capable of impacting Dirk's game.

The Mavs' front office fixed that by changing the preparation, training, and game plan to make sure that the next time a team ignored our center, the center would score in double digits and play double-double ball.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-23-2007, 04:30 PM

Karl Malone never won a championship beating everyone up so maybe Salley is wrong.

wmbwinn · 03-23-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Karl Malone never won a championship beating everyone up so maybe Salley is wrong.

Alonzo Mourning and Karl Malone are an interesting comparison. Zo is the reason the Heat won last year over the Mavs. Coach Riley figured it out and Zo took Dirk in double teams. Besides, Zo can score as well and did very well in the playoffs against us. Zo did not beat up Dirk either, really. Zo is just a capable player.

If Dampier had been an offensive force, Zo would not have been able to double Dirk. Zo was straying away from Damp/Diop every possession. Zo was fading towards Dirk constantly.

Mavs Rule · 03-23-2007, 05:10 PM

The suns do a pretty good job making Dirk switch to cover Nash, and then Nash going one on one against his old buddy, just like they did in practice, taking him to the hole, or pulling up with the teardrop. While Dirk doesn't seem to tire much or get in foul trouble against the suns when they do this, it does leave Dirk vulnerable on D because they use an isolation on him.

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-23-2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavs Rule

The suns do a pretty good job making Dirk switch to cover Nash, and then Nash going one on one against his old buddy, just like they did in practice, taking him to the hole, or pulling up with the teardrop. While Dirk doesn't seem to tire much or get in foul trouble against the suns when they do this, it does leave Dirk vulnerable on D because they use an isolation on him.

Well then Avery needs to figure out how to fix that because it happened almost every time down the court.

Its like Nash and Amare's pick and roll, you know its coming, yet Buckner can't get around it every single time. We need to put Harris on Nash when we play them again because he can actually read the pick and get around it.

jayC · 03-23-2007, 05:33 PM

Dirk expands his game every summer. First he became a better rebounder then he drove the ball to the hoop. Now he posts up small forwards and guards something that troubled him in the past. Dirk took control against the Bowens and Marions of the world.

sike · 03-23-2007, 05:41 PM

$.2

this thread blows.

real sike.

u2sarajevo · 03-23-2007, 05:44 PM

wow.... sike give's his 20 cents instead of his 2 cents..... that's like 18 cents more than we bargained for.

fake u2

Dirkadirkastan · 03-23-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

so far, no one has hurt Dirk badly enough to cause him to step out and stay out.

Suck on it, Chris Wilcox.

StackAttack · 03-23-2007, 06:08 PM

Facing Jerry Sloan in the playoffs could place lives in danger.

Captain Disaster · 03-23-2007, 09:39 PM

Shaq is a puss; if he had to play against someone who was his physical equal, he'd be nothing special. Lately, he gets away with cheap shots against smaller players; this is what his game has devolved into (like Mourning). That is why I would be happiest if someone took out those two punks.

wmbwinn · 03-23-2007, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavs Rule

The suns do a pretty good job making Dirk switch to cover Nash, and then Nash going one on one against his old buddy, just like they did in practice, taking him to the hole, or pulling up with the teardrop. While Dirk doesn't seem to tire much or get in foul trouble against the suns when they do this, it does leave Dirk vulnerable on D because they use an isolation on him.

True. But, my point is that no one forces Dirk to cover a player he can't handle without committing fouls. Dirk can't guard Tim Duncan or Amare or Kevin Garnett or many others. Those teams can't put enough talent on the floor in any match up that forces Dirk to take a defensive assignment he can't handle without committing fouls.

In the past, Dirk would be guarding those players and racking up fouls.

Dirk doesn't have to foul Nash. He may not be able to stop Nash but he isn't going to foul him either. Nash isn't posting up on him and backing him down and dunking over his head. You get the idea.

mqywaaah · 03-23-2007, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I'm sure somewhere, Amare and Bowen are taking notes

And somewhere in between Udonis Haslem too.

Thespiralgoeson · 03-24-2007, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mffl03

Take it too seriously? He said it like 3 times in a row. He said it with a stern voice the first time. Then the commentators started laughing going "are you serious?" He said it again and again.

Just obviously not what David Stern would endorse in the first place, not that I endorse David Stern either...but you know what I mean.

And Dirk's not gonna play stupid defense, he'll get help, he'll back off or switch. Plus the whole all-star treatment, I just can't see Dirk EVER fouling out.

Whatever man. The dude gave Dirk and the Mavs nothing but respect throughout the whole interview.

EricaLubarsky · 03-24-2007, 04:05 AM

Jeff Gillooly. Case closed.

Thespiralgoeson · 03-24-2007, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Jeff Gillooly. Case closed.

WWWWWWHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYY????!!!!

EricaLubarsky · 03-24-2007, 04:08 AM

all the defense youll ever need.

huashengdou · 03-24-2007, 07:08 AM

Quote:

When John Salley was asked what he'd do to STOP Dirk, he replied "hit him in the ribs as hard as I can". Then he proceeded to say it 2 more times "hit him in the ribs as hard as I can to stop his scoring ways. It's what I used to do, and it's what worked back in the day."

It must be crazy if Salley was seriously.But if just a joke , his means maybe tell us Dirk is a unique player in the league.

wmbwinn · 03-24-2007, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huashengdou

It must be crazy if Salley was seriously.But if just a joke , his means maybe tell us Dirk is a unique player in the league.

It is not crazy and it is exactly what most teams have done to Dirk for years. They beat on Shaq as well. Beating, pushing, hitting, stomping feet, elbows (Mutombo), head butts, feet under the shooter (Bowen), have always been employed.

Surely, you have noticed that anytime Dirk does have the ball in the low post off of a drive, pass, or rebound, that he gets hit very hard and is frequently on the floor after his shot. That is just how most teams deal with Dirk. Nothing new.

Dirk is not a Shaq and is no where near anything remotely comparable. That is why Dirk's post up area and main area of offense is around the free throw line/top of the key region. The Centers and PF's that beat on him can't hang with him out there without him blowing past them. The SF's that pester him out there can't stop him and can't push him around as easily. When a player is beat out around that region, a foul will be called. When the same contact happens nearer the basket, a foul is likely to not be assessed. When Dirk ends up near the basket, the universal strategy is and has been to knock his a** on the floor hard.

If you didn't realize that, then you haven't been watching...

huashengdou · 03-24-2007, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmbwinn
It is not crazy and it is exactly what most teams have done to Dirk for years. They beat on Shaq as well. Beating, pushing, hitting, stomping feet, elbows (Mutombo), head butts, feet under the shooter (Bowen), have always been employed.

Exactly.
But I just said he was crazy that spoken these on a public occasion.
If he was seriously ,why he said those sentences ?Told all of the guarders,how to stop Dirk??In a dirty play??

She_Growls · 03-24-2007, 05:03 PM

Salley is a softy; his comments were clearly a joke and was meant as a compliment to Dirk, at least, that's how I heard it....

Underdog · 03-24-2007, 06:56 PM

One thing everyone in the NBA realizes about Dirk: if you hit him hard, he'll hit you back... Nobody wants to take that risk (unless Shaq & Stern's refs are on the court!)

capitalcity · 03-24-2007, 08:42 PM

Jeff Gillooly reference = Cap's hero.

Silk Smoov · 03-25-2007, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacktruth

What it says to me is that the only way to stop Dirk is to play dirty.

That's the only way the 1988-1990 Pistons played. Rodman, Lambier, Mahorn, Edwards, Sally. They were all thugs, but one helluva basketball team.

What are "Thugs"? Seriously, the Pistons were actually a very solid team that played solid defense and were a hit first team. This is actually how the game used to be played before all these rule changes into this mess we have now. I really can't stand these rules right now, because it forces players to play weak defense. I guarantee is Magic or Dr.J had these kind of rules, they would average at least 10 more points a game.

I know some here may not agree, but if Shaq played a little earlier, he would not be the dominant center he is now. He would be reduced to being a solid center, who needed some offensive moves to get to the next level. Back then, I can guarantee those old centers would have beat the shit out of Shaq's body on a nightly basis to where Shaq would have been forced to slim down to move better or shorten his career due to injuries.

Shaq played against a couple of the ole heads his first couple of years, but they were all on the decline. Shaq today is a "Freak of Nature", but more importantly, a recipient of the times. Right now, the biggest recipient of the times is "Wade"....In the ole days, I guarantee, it would only take one Anthony Mason clothesline or Mahorn knee to cause Wade to think b4 he left his feet. I gurantee it

Dirkadirkastan · 03-25-2007, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I know some here may not agree, but if Shaq played a little earlier, he would not be the dominant center he is now.

Right, like anyone on this board is going to rush to Shaq's rescue.

Tokey41 · 03-25-2007, 11:19 PM

You could also try knocking him out with an uppercut, if that doesn't work kick him in the junk. I wonder what kind of suspension you would get for that?

G-Man · 03-26-2007, 01:18 AM

People been trying to beat up on Dirk since day one. It doesn't work.
He can't be intimidated, and he fears no one. He'll blow by them, take the foul and the and 1. And come back down the court and demand the ball and do it again.

Dirk uses a variety of moves to back defenders off, including a killer jab step, ball fakes, head fakes and pass fakes. Plus its really hard to hammer a guy who's faked out the defender and then shot a fade away.

Now, they try to defend him, put a small on him to body him up and bring a big on the double team. But this year his passing has gotten so much better, he'd killing double teams as well. But when he needs a shot, he always gets one off.