NBA Coast to Coast - Josh Howard better than Dirk?! - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 01-31-2008, 01:38 PM

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Originally Posted by cjbcool

When we have needed Dirk to step up in the Play0ffs he hasnt.

scoreboard

thereaper · 01-31-2008, 02:05 PM

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Originally Posted by Underdog

Really???

If there's 3 people on Yao - who covers Tmac? (or the other 3 guys?)

Umm, usually a very nice looking suit.

DirkFTW · 01-31-2008, 02:16 PM

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Originally Posted by thereaper

Umm, usually a very nice looking suit.

LOL

Underdog · 01-31-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thereaper

Umm, usually a very nice looking suit.

Usually Lurkin · 01-31-2008, 03:12 PM

Wow. When Josh Howard even gets MVP mention let alone consideration, let alone the award, lets start this conversation. He's better than Dirk like Pippen was better than Jordan, that is, only in the imaginations of dorks who think they are smarter than common sense.

Hitman · 01-31-2008, 03:38 PM

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Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

He's better than Dirk like Pippen was better than Jordan, that is, only in the imaginations of dorks who think they are smarter than common sense.

Classic. That is so true.

Thespiralgoeson · 01-31-2008, 04:41 PM

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Originally Posted by endrity

please don't start this because it clearely says you never watched the t-wolves. That year we beat them, KG had the best team outside the 04 one. In case you don't know I will tell you. They had Billups, who also averaged about 25 that series. They had Wally in his All Star year, giving them about 20 a game with deadly outside shooting. They had a guy name Anthony Peeler, who you probably have no idea who he is, who was at the time one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. And they also had, if I am not forgetting, Earvin Johnson at center, a typical tough minded defensive center.

You know what happened in that series. Anytime it was close, the Mavs would throw the ball to Dirk in the mid post, kinda like they do now. KG was on him everytime. And Dirk schooled the man. It's that simple.Maybe it's hard for you to understand how a white European can do that to an all-powerful and athletic american 7footer but he did, and has done it to the rest of the league. Since you saw Bird play, I suppose you are not that young, you should understand this better than anyone.

p.s Spiral, thnx for the propz

Quote:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to endrity again.

ugh

Dtownsfinest · 01-31-2008, 06:17 PM

I don't think saying Josh is a better overall player than Dirk is that far fetched. Not sure if I agree or disagree at this point. Josh's defense has gotten better as well as his offense. I'd like ot think he's a lot better defender than Dirk. Not as good offensively but he does have a lot more weapons to use on offense than Dirk does. I can see why someone from the outside looking in would think Josh is a better overall player. Especially since he's more ESPN material than Dirk as far as highlight play's go.

Usually Lurkin · 01-31-2008, 06:36 PM

there's a bit of a semantic difference between "better" overall player and "more of an" overall player that might be meaningful here, and I still don't think I'd apply the term to Josh over Dirk. Among other things like passing and rebounding, there's also a huge difference between doing what you do for 24 minutes and doing what you do for 48 minutes. If you only do it for 24 minutes, then to me, you're only halfway to being any kind of well-rounded player (at best).

Five-ofan · 01-31-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I don't think saying Josh is a better overall player than Dirk is that far fetched. Not sure if I agree or disagree at this point. Josh's defense has gotten better as well as his offense. I'd like ot think he's a lot better defender than Dirk. Not as good offensively but he does have a lot more weapons to use on offense than Dirk does. I can see why someone from the outside looking in would think Josh is a better overall player. Especially since he's more ESPN material than Dirk as far as highlight play's go.

Hes got more offensive weapons than dirk? Really? Since when? Hes got a right to left crossover that is wicked and a step back that is generally just used after the right to left crossover.

foglemann · 01-31-2008, 06:49 PM

Josh in every 1st Quarter > Dirk

Josh in every other Quarter < Dirk

Thespiralgoeson · 01-31-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjbcool

Did you say that?

Yes I did. Josh Howard is not a much better defender than Dirk. Frankly, I think you could actually make a case that Dirk is a better defender at his position.

Thespiralgoeson · 01-31-2008, 07:49 PM

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Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Wow Dirk is not even average at D and we wont even talk about their positions because Dirk can barely guard any1 at the 4. Howard is not this great defender either but hes def. better than Dirk at his position and probably at 2 others. Howard has successfully guarded 1, 2, and 3.

This is absolute bullsh*t. Dirk's not a great defender by any means, but he is certainly better than average. He is a serviceable man-to-man defender, and actually a pretty good pick and roll defender. The only places he really gets burned are on the weakside, and he too often goes for the strip when he should go for the block.

And trust me dude, we get torched much much more often at 3 than we do at 4. Defensively, Josh Howard is one of the most overrated players in the NBA.

Thespiralgoeson · 01-31-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I don't think saying Josh is a better overall player than Dirk is that far fetched.

Yeah, I think it is. It's about as far fetched as saying Odom is a better player than Kobe.

mary · 01-31-2008, 10:34 PM

We need to start passing out milk cartons for Josh during the second half of games.

mary · 01-31-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjbcool

If they played one on one, I think Dirk will win.
But for the sake of argument:
Dirk is a Great Offensive weapon.
He is the best mismatch in the NBA. A 7 footer that can shoot anywhere on the court.
And yet, that same 7 footer is not a weapon on Defense.

Josh is a good offensive player and a good defenisive weapon.
He can strive on both sides of the ball. Not only does he average 21 points a game and grab almost 8 boards a game, but he guards the best player on the opposing team every game.

Dirk averages one more point and and one more board a game. So in that since, they put up similar Offensive numbers. What sets them aside is the Defense. For that very reason, Josh Howard is my favorite player on this team.

You should ban yourself.

cinemablend · 01-31-2008, 10:57 PM

If Josh ever learned to play good offense for more than 1 quarter he probably would be better than Dirk.

But it's starting to look like that will never happen.

Dtownsfinest · 02-01-2008, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Hes got more offensive weapons than dirk? Really? Since when? Hes got a right to left crossover that is wicked and a step back that is generally just used after the right to left crossover.

Josh consistently scores all over the floor though. Whether its dunking, hitting the mid ranger, hitting the 3, beating his guy off the dribble, the reverse....Dirk has some weapons of his own but his main scoring comes from shooting over the top of guys for the most part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Yeah, I think it is. It's about as far fetched as saying Odom is a better player than Kobe.

Odom is a underachiever and Kobe is the best player in the league. Odom's not even the 2nd best player on his team. He may be the 2nd most talented but he surely isn't playing worth a damn alongside Kobe and probably never will.

Underdog · 02-01-2008, 02:42 PM

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Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Josh consistently scores all over the floor though. Whether its dunking, hitting the mid ranger, hitting the 3, beating his guy off the dribble, the reverse....

...but only in the first half!

(rolling eyes at Josh, not you...)

horse900703 · 02-01-2008, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinemablend

If Josh ever learned to play good offense for more than 1 quarter he probably would be better than Dirk.

But it's starting to look like that will never happen.

Maybe he will ~~

DirkFTW · 02-01-2008, 06:25 PM

Maybe Terry will hit a late growth spurt to make him 4" taller.

skylive321 · 02-01-2008, 09:57 PM

J-ho during 4th qtr huddles..

Usually Lurkin · 02-01-2008, 11:49 PM

ha. I can hear Avery's way over here in LA - from inside the picture!

Thespiralgoeson · 02-02-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Odom is a underachiever and Kobe is the best player in the league. Odom's not even the 2nd best player on his team.

Neither is Josh Howard.

Dtownsfinest · 02-02-2008, 03:05 PM

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Originally Posted by Underdog

...but only in the first half!

(rolling eyes at Josh, not you...)

I hear ya. I can't even argue about this anymore because I can't recall seeing Josh take over the 4th quarter of games like Dirk has. There's times when I forget Josh even plays for the Mavs. Josh completely disappeared in the 2nd half of the game yet I didn't realize it until he took that horrible jumpshot in the 4th.

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Neither is Josh Howard.

You've got to be kidding lol. You think highly of Devin Harris i'm guessing?

dude1394 · 02-02-2008, 03:23 PM

I am also thinking pretty highly of devin after watching jason run the team against a pressing defense again. It was a horrible nightmare recap.

Dtownsfinest · 02-02-2008, 04:02 PM

I probably underrate him myself but i don't see him as a top tier point guard in this league or even a top 10 point guard. I've yet to see him run a half court offense consistently this season. He's a hell of a player though. Not sure if he's a hell of a point guard though.

Thespiralgoeson · 02-03-2008, 12:27 AM

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Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

You've got to be kidding lol. You think highly of Devin Harris i'm guessing?

Dead serious. Devin is the team's second best player.

aexchange · 02-03-2008, 10:09 AM

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Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Dead serious. Devin is the team's second best player.

preach it. its debatable now, but it won't be in another season. harris is quickly turning the corner as the second best player on the team.

skylive321 · 02-03-2008, 12:20 PM

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Originally Posted by aexchange

preach it. its debatable now, but it won't be in another season. harris is quickly turning the corner as the second best player on the team.

only if he wasn't as brittle as he is. he's best weapon is his worst enemy. he's little frame makes him quick and a fast slasher. given he develops a tear drop like parker, he will be unstoppable. But, he is so injury prone.

dude1394 · 02-03-2008, 01:22 PM

He's going to HAVE to keep from spilling into the front row on almost every drive. He's really good about drawing contact and finishing, it would nicer if he's just score without the contact.

Five-ofan · 02-03-2008, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I probably underrate him myself but i don't see him as a top tier point guard in this league or even a top 10 point guard. I've yet to see him run a half court offense consistently this season. He's a hell of a player though. Not sure if he's a hell of a point guard though.

theres an argument to be made that josh howard isnt a top 10 sf either.

LSMF · 02-03-2008, 07:48 PM

I have begun to hate Josh Howard, he's quickly becoming a cancer. I used to let him slide for the things he did but its getting under my skin. He's nowhere to be found in the clutch, takes terrible shots,he plays lazy defense, shoots jumpshots on a 2 on 1 fastbreak, never slashes to the basket like he should, I still remember in the NBA finals when he missed 2 freethrows with 54 seconds left(don't remember what game it was). If he had just made those freethrows there was no way we were going to lose that game. He also can't defend last second plays for sh*t it always ends up as a foul or the person he's guarding scoring on him. The worst part of this is that Poor Dirk is the one who is called a choker.

Five-ofan · 02-03-2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Josh consistently scores all over the floor though. Whether its dunking, hitting the mid ranger, hitting the 3, beating his guy off the dribble, the reverse....Dirk has some weapons of his own but his main scoring comes from shooting over the top of guys for the most part.

.

i just noticed this. josh has actually become as much of a jump shooter as dirk

shaw-xx · 02-03-2008, 08:01 PM

Bash anyone if you'd like to. But give the "ifs" a break. If the ball had once bounced back differently, we would have won the title, yadayadayda. Live and die by one play? You wouldn't have put yourself in that situation. No one was choked, we were outplayed (by opponent and officiating) cuz we had flaws. Unfortunately, we still have.

dude1394 · 02-03-2008, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

i just noticed this. josh has actually become as much of a jump shooter as dirk

In some respects he's more as he doesn't get to the line as much. Crap...our post-up guy is devin.

Duncan took 60% of his shots in the paint and he makes 61% of them.
Devin took 57% of his shots in the paint and he makes 55% of them.
Boozer took 52% of his shots in the paint and he makes 62% of them.
Gasol took 54% of his shots in the paint and he makes 58% of them.
Bass took 46% of his shots in the paint and he makes 45% of them.
Josh took 28% of his shots in the paint and he makes 64% of them.
Dirk took 23% of his shots in the paint and he makes 55% of them.