Simmons: Sorry, Dirk, you're no MVP - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DarenG · 05-01-2007, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

DarrenG, I think we're all aware of that. But thank you for 'contributing' in that special way that only you and children with mental disabilities can contribute.

So your speaking from experience I see.

And your right..we all are AWARE how the team has performed up to this point. If that is an exclusion criteria for this thread then nobody should post.

alexamenos · 05-01-2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarenG

Well the conversation is about Dirk's play.

...you might have noticed that my point was that Dirk was not playing up to snuff....rebutting my position that dirk wasn't playing very well with the argument, "huh-uh, dirk isn't playing all that well" leaves something to be desired.

cheers

BigJoeD · 05-01-2007, 05:10 PM

They need to put the lock down on Baron Davis if they have any hope of winning this series.

DelNegro · 05-01-2007, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

And I'll go ahead and say that Duncan would struggle just as much or more guarding anyone on the perimeter much like Dirk has been forced to do for the majority of this series.

Yes, he's obviously better at protecting the rim, but he'd quickly find himself in foul trouble IF he were playing on this Mavs team and were asked to be the last line of defense.

Now, Duncan playing with his current roster will probably be the beneficiary of significantly better perimeter defense which will do wonders to keep him out of foul trouble. The Mavs peremeter defense has been nothing short of terrible this series (yes, some of that falls on Dirk..obviously)

The difference is that Duncan's low post game forces the Warriors to match up with him. Duncan wouldn't need to be playing perimeter defense because the warriors have to have a big man in there to guard him. Dirk doesn't play down low thus Golden State is able to get away with playing small.

Murphy3 · 05-01-2007, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

DarrenG, I think we're all aware of that. But thank you for 'contributing' in that special way that only you and children with mental disabilities can contribute.

'You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Murphy3 again.'

DarenG · 05-01-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

...you might have noticed that my point was that Dirk was not playing up to snuff....rebutting my position that dirk wasn't playing very well with the argument, "huh-uh, dirk isn't playing all that well" leaves something to be desired.

cheers

Regardless I was putting in my two cents that I agree he has underachieved. I find that no more "huh-uh" then saying what every TV analyst and sports writer has already said about Dirk not playing up to "snuff".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

'You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Murphy3 again.'

Uh..OK.

Murphy3 · 05-01-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DelNegro

The difference is that Duncan's low post game forces the Warriors to match up with him. Duncan wouldn't need to be playing perimeter defense because the warriors have to have a big man in there to guard him. Dirk doesn't play down low thus Golden State is able to get away with playing small.

I'd be willing to bet that the Warriors would go small with matching up with Duncan for as long as they could. I think many of us remember the games were Duncan turned the ball over 5-7 times against the Mavs when Nellie was at the helm when the Mavs guarded him with quick defenders doubling immediately once he caught the ball. Well, we also remember the 40 point games..

But, there's a couple of big difference between this Nellie coached Warriors team and his Mavs coached teams.. Quickness and athleticism..

With that being said, the Duncan would still make them pay because of his ability to pass out of the double team to find the open man.. but that only works if you have guys that can hit the outside shot and/or can get to the rim. The Mavs aren't hitting alot of outside shots last time I checked.

But good post. I'm not sure that the Warriors would be willing to back off of their smaller lineup. They seem all about trying to impose their will. Where the Spurs would give them more trouble than the Mavs is with their perimeter defense.. I think the Spurs could probably do a better job of cutting off some of their penetration.

alexamenos · 05-01-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

'You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Murphy3 again.'

^^^^^^^
virtual masturbation brought to you by dallas-mavs.com .

Knickfan · 05-01-2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

I think we are finding out that the Mavs aren't at the level defensively that we once thought they were....

This is the NAIL on the head... I've said this since last year, all this talk about how good the Mavs are defensively is a JOKE. They're NOT! They improved from the Nelson years but the style changed and that's it. The Mavs has ONE decent perimeter defender (Howard) and Dampier blocks shots. Other than that overall they're average at best but there are many people who seem to think they're GREAT defensively but never was.

Murphy3 · 05-01-2007, 05:41 PM

Diop's a pretty good defensive center. Harris is highly overrated on the perimeter.. Howard's a bit overrated defensively as well. dirk is best at guarding a true PF but struggles mightily at times when he's forced to guard anyone smaller and quicker. Terry is... well, we all remember his defense on Nash as time wound down in game 6 against the Suns a couple years ago.. It hasn't gotten much better. Stack tries hard.

purplefrog · 05-01-2007, 05:51 PM

The defense, or lack thereof, is a big problem. The Mavs brought in Buck and George to be defensive stalwarts and they have not delivered in this series imo. This means that we have a shorter bench than usual and it puts more pressure on about six players (starting five + Stack) because Buck and George can't earn enough minutes on the court.

On the other side of the coin, I think Dirk got 4 steals on Sunday and he grabbed a ton of rebounds, so he is finding ways to contribute and that is what superstars do... find ways to help the team when the offense is not spectacular. So, I don't think there is any doubt that Dirk is making a significant contribution. My biggest concern with Dirk is what appears to be his despondent attitude and body language. Before game 4 he said if the Mavs did not win that game the season was pretty much over. After the game he didn't seem to have much fire in his belly. On the court he looks either lost or irritated, I am not sure which one. This does not seem to be typical Dirk, so what's wrong? Maybe he is just frustrated with Avery's offensive sets and a lack of preparation against zone defenses, or maybe he is disillusioned with his teammates' lack of execution and production... I dunno. But we need Dirk to be passionate, so I hope he and Avery have put their heads together and are ready to rumble because we need them both on the same page.

Knickfan · 05-01-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Diop's a pretty good defensive center. Harris is highly overrated on the perimeter.. Howard's a bit overrated defensively as well. dirk is best at guarding a true PF but struggles mightily at times when he's forced to guard anyone smaller and quicker. Terry is... well, we all remember his defense on Nash as time wound down in game 6 against the Suns a couple years ago.. It hasn't gotten much better. Stack tries hard.

Only problem is Diop won't give you much in this series because the biggest person on their team (Harriogton) is doing NOTHING, so who cares about him. I will say this, I've said this entire series, it's time for the guards to step up and shut off or slow down Davis's penetration, it's ridiculous how easily he gets past the guards (Harris and Terry).

StackAttack · 05-01-2007, 06:02 PM

I have a really, really fucking good feeling about tonight for Dirk. Like...a 45 point type feeling.

chumdawg · 05-01-2007, 06:26 PM

Ten bucks says Dirk opts out at halftime tonight.

Of the last years on his contract, I mean. It's got to kill him to see his old buddies having so much fun and winning so much stuff, while he is taking all the heat for an incompetent coach and a frail supporting cast.

mav_love · 05-01-2007, 07:04 PM

Sorry, Bill, your article is stale and you're a chump, writing stuff everyone already thinks and publishing it b/c you want everyone to agree with you.

Gaddabout · 05-01-2007, 07:37 PM

Bill Simmons is the world's most famous fanboy/blogger/message board poster, but he actually got a job out of it. What a tool. A miserable Boston fan to boot. Spread that misery, Bill. Spread that misery.

The only good thing I can say about Bill Simmons is it's unlikely he's living in his mother's basement these days. But you have to imagine his Red Sox/Celtics/Pats drinking buddies still do. At least not the ones who work and actually earned their careers in Bristol.

Amorphis · 05-01-2007, 07:43 PM

Nowitzki is invisible out there. The only reason some fans can't see that is because he's their favorite player and they'll go to whatever lengths to defend him. If Dirk throws up another 3 airballs tonight, goes 7 for 11 from the line and scores 16 points, then the blame will go to Avery. No matter what happens, Dirk is not to blame. Some diehard Dirk fans will toughen up and go out on a limb and say something like "Dirk is partly responsible, but so is Avery." Whatever they can do to absolve Dirk of a performance that is nothing short of a disaster. Watching this series objectively, Nowitzki looks like just another player on the court. He's done nothing special to speak of. When you're the MVP of the league, you need to have some type of impact on a series.

SeriousSummer · 05-01-2007, 08:00 PM

Nonsense. Did you watch the last game? Dirk had 6 offensive rebounds and 4 steals. He played excellent defense against a small forward.

He also worked hard to get post position--but nobody could throw him the ball, no matter how good the position.

Dirk is a 7 footer. He can't take the ball on the dribble from the 3-point line and beat anybody other than power forwards and centers.

Unless you want to play the game by letting Dirk take the ball at the 3-point line and jacking up threes (which might not be so bad given the two he made at the end of the game), Dallas's guards have got to make a pass before Dirk has a chance to score.

Dallas can't pass to the post. So Jackson can front Dirk and force him to catch the ball so far out on the court that the best he can do is shoot a very long contested jump shot or try to drive against two or three quicker players.

Dallas's offensive problems are strategic. You can't save a bad strategy with good tactics. Dallas needs to throw the post pass--at least try. When Dirk passes out of the double-team, the guards need to drive the ball unless they're open for an immediate shot.

Don Nelson understands Dallas's weaknesses (lack of passing ability) better than anyone. Avery needs to counter strategically, if Dallas is to have a chance.

twelli · 05-01-2007, 08:11 PM

I am sick of hearing why Dirk can't do this and that.

I want to hear again why defenders can't stop him.

Just do it, Dude!

Murphy3 · 05-01-2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

Nonsense. Did you watch the last game? Dirk had 6 offensive rebounds and 4 steals. He played excellent defense against a small forward.

He also worked hard to get post position--but nobody could throw him the ball, no matter how good the position.

Dirk is a 7 footer. He can't take the ball on the dribble from the 3-point line and beat anybody other than power forwards and centers.

Unless you want to play the game by letting Dirk take the ball at the 3-point line and jacking up threes (which might not be so bad given the two he made at the end of the game), Dallas's guards have got to make a pass before Dirk has a chance to score.

Dallas can't pass to the post. So Jackson can front Dirk and force him to catch the ball so far out on the court that the best he can do is shoot a very long contested jump shot or try to drive against two or three quicker players.

Dallas's offensive problems are strategic. You can't save a bad strategy with good tactics. Dallas needs to throw the post pass--at least try. When Dirk passes out of the double-team, the guards need to drive the ball unless they're open for an immediate shot.

Don Nelson understands Dallas's weaknesses (lack of passing ability) better than anyone. Avery needs to counter strategically, if Dallas is to have a chance.

Damn fine post... Why don't you post much anymore?

Murphy3 · 05-01-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amorphis

Nowitzki is invisible out there. The only reason some fans can't see that is because he's their favorite player and they'll go to whatever lengths to defend him. If Dirk throws up another 3 airballs tonight, goes 7 for 11 from the line and scores 16 points, then the blame will go to Avery. No matter what happens, Dirk is not to blame. Some diehard Dirk fans will toughen up and go out on a limb and say something like "Dirk is partly responsible, but so is Avery." Whatever they can do to absolve Dirk of a performance that is nothing short of a disaster. Watching this series objectively, Nowitzki looks like just another player on the court. He's done nothing special to speak of. When you're the MVP of the league, you need to have some type of impact on a series.

Like it or not, he plays a position that is dependent upon other players on his team getting him the ball from time to time in a scoring position.

craggmac · 05-01-2007, 08:55 PM

I say keep Dirk, get rid of the rest.

SeriousSummer · 05-01-2007, 08:56 PM

I don't post much any more because I work 70-80 hours per week. Besides, even here, which is one of the best basketball forums on the net, only half a dozen posters or so really understand the game.

And half the time you're too mad at each other to have a decent conversation--I don't have the time or energy to be bitchy to people.

Also, I have a life. That takes time.

Finally, I'm old--50+--and I need my sleep.

Murphy3 · 05-01-2007, 09:01 PM

Sometimes people deserve to be bitched at... But, the main bitcher has left the building and Chum's allowed to post in peace.

Epitome22 · 05-02-2007, 01:35 AM

Bill Simmons is of course a very entertaining & talented writer (though his schtick gets old afterawhile) but (and this is ironic, him being perhaps the most famous sportswriter today) he isn't actually very insightful or perceptive, or many times even thoughtful when it comes to evaluating sports, teams & athletes. He's clearly fanatical about sports, and if you are too, you can't help but get caught up in how he writes about it with his distinctive humor & his talented prose, but the "sportsguy" really doesen't know that much about sports. It's more like a jovial guy with a steep knowledge of 80's pop culture references writing about sports than a sportswriter with a distinctive gimmick: More family guy than John Hollinger.

Whenever I check out the baseball stadhead website baseballprimer.com, the baseball heads always refer to Bill Simmons derisively as "Basketball writer Bill Simmons", the prefix being an indicator that he doesen't know what he's talking about when writing about Baseball & anything said in the following article should be taken with a lump of salt. I think we hoops fans should come up with our own moniker for the man.

jthig32 · 05-02-2007, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epitome22

Bill Simmons is of course a very entertaining & talented writer (though his schtick gets old afterawhile) but (and this is ironic, him being perhaps the most famous sportswriter today) he isn't actually very insightful or perceptive, or many times even thoughtful when it comes to evaluating sports, teams & athletes. He's clearly fanatical about sports, and if you are too, you can't help but get caught up in how he writes about it with his distinctive humor & his talented prose, but the "sportsguy" really doesen't know that much about sports. It's more like a jovial guy with a steep knowledge of 80's pop culture references writing about sports than a sportswriter with a distinctive gimmick: More family guy than John Hollinger.

Whenever I check out the baseball stadhead website baseballprimer.com, the baseball heads always refer to Bill Simmons derisively as "Basketball writer Bill Simmons", the prefix being an indicator that he doesen't know what he's talking about when writing about Baseball & anything said in the following article should be taken with a lump of salt. I think we hoops fans should come up with our own moniker for the man.

I think Simmons is pretty darn insiteful when talking about football or basketball.

He goes overboard, and he knee jerks, but I think a lot of that is by design, to relate to the common fan.

I don't think Mavs fan were arguing quite so much when he wrote the article after the Suns series declaring that Dirk belonged in the Pantheon.

You just have to try to dig past the shock value parts of his articles. He REALLY can dissect a basketball game when he wants to, in my opinion.

dude1394 · 05-02-2007, 01:45 AM

You'll excuse me if I don't partake of simmons this year. When he said that the suns were the end-all, be-all team for the ages I sort of figured that although he might be funny, his opinion wasn't very valuable.

jthig32 · 05-02-2007, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

You'll excuse me if I don't partake of simmons this year. When he said that the suns were the end-all, be-all team for the ages I sort of figured that although he might be funny, his opinion wasn't very valuable.

Yeah, that was a classic case of his knee jerk.

He's since backed WAY off that.

nashtymavsfan13 · 05-02-2007, 02:02 AM

You think Bill wants a do-over on this article?

rabbitproof · 05-02-2007, 02:27 AM

Let's win the series before we say told ya so.

fluid.forty.one · 05-02-2007, 02:29 AM

Bill Simmons... suck it.

4cwebb · 05-02-2007, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

You think Bill wants a do-over on this article?

He may, but in reality he was only 3.5 minutes away from being completely correct, even if it wasn't remotely Dirk's fault that he wasn't involved in the second half. Regardless of the reason, up until scoring 12 of the last 15 points of the game, Dirk was not anywhere near the MVP. Luckily for the Mavs, an NBA game is 48 minutes long, and Dirk used the full 48 to turn in a huge performance to turn the game in his team's favor.

Hitman · 05-02-2007, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Bill Simmons... suck it.

What he said.

(Even though I *still* can't bring myself to read the article.)

Note: I will read the article after Dirk goes bezerk and the Mavs win game 7.

Lor20 · 05-02-2007, 04:57 AM

dirk wont go berserk this series - heis constantly being doubled, sometimes before he gets the ball. there is no player in this league who will bring a stellar offensive performance when you do that to him, especially not if hes no guard. Is there any place that keeps stats on how often a player touches the ball? Dirk just doesnt get the ball much and avery doesnt usually let him shoot threes so whats a guy to do? All he can, which is try to draw the double team and pass out. thats the reason he waits for the double so much - because he knows it opens up another guy (unless they allow GS to play with 6 guys now).
when dirk plays the 5 then he doesnt get the ball at all other than maybe a few rebounds and when he plays the 4 they just draw the guy from dop since he is no offensive threat. maybe they should try throwing cro in as a center for a while next game. he can score, rebound and hit hard fouls which is more than we usuaully got from our 5 position this series and if he fouls out its not the end of the world.
I still think this whole series went off wrong from game 1 and the mavs have just tried to come back from that.
Now they need game 6. I think they can get it bacause they seem to figure them out more and more.
Yes - GS seems to make crazy threes the last two games but thats sheer luck and thats gonna stop very soon (of course one more time would be enough so maybe i shouldnt say that). when biedrins is on the floor they should foul him a bit more. biedrins makes in average 1/2 FT's so that'd be 1 point per possession - they are usually above that. Plus it might make one of their nutjobs explode at a ref :-P

Darth Ape · 05-02-2007, 07:24 AM

I'd say Simmons was looking darned near prophetic until about 1:00 was left in the game last night. He still ultimately may be proven right, but for a brief moment, Dirk shut this guy's jaw shut.

mary · 05-02-2007, 07:28 AM

If you pretend the article is about someone else....its actually amusing.

A terrible league?

Simmons is obviously pretty bitter about the total sucktitude of East Coast basketball.

endtroducing MASKED · 05-02-2007, 07:31 AM

Dirk, much like Fedor Emelianenko, is a grown ass man.

TheDallasChokers · 05-02-2007, 08:23 AM

Lets face it, Simmons is a bitter loser. Sometimes he's funny and he has some talent as a writer, but really he is a pathetic and sad man who likely has a small penis. He is hyping up Mcgrady for christs sake, just because he had a 16 assist game? Who cares, Mcgrady is a bum and is always injured. He is not a winner, he just happens to be on a good team right now with the best centre in the entire world.

Flacolaco · 05-02-2007, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endtroducing MASKED

Dirk, much like Fedor Emelianenko, is a grown ass man.

Ok.....but Dirk plays an actual sport.

jthig32 · 05-02-2007, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

You think Bill wants a do-over on this article?

Or with 4 minutes to go was he writing a "told you so" article?

I loved Dirk's performance at the end of the game, but let's not act like Dirk put this team on his back for 4 quarters and brought a win.

A lot of that is Avery's fault and the defensive schemes, but still.