No one to blame but Dirk - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

NYMavFan · 05-04-2007, 07:44 AM

I don't post here much. In fact, I haven't posted in over 4 years mostly because I find a couple of high volume posters on here pretty uninformed and irritating. I have been lurking tho so I'm pretty familiar with the new faces.

But I've decided to post tonight because I am freaking disgusted.

Dirk was the difference in this series. He played like a pussy for 98% of the series and is the sole reason that this happened. He didn't even have to play like an MVP for the mavs to win this series. He just had to play decently... aggressively. He didn't.

After last year, I was disgusted at the NBA because the mavs were robbed, plain and simple. After the season, I swore I was done with the NBA. I came back this season though because I wanted justice. I thought it might happen. But obviously, it didn't.

Now what? Dirk is going to live with the stigma of a choker for the rest of his career. He'll be known as the worst MVP choice in the history of the NBA. Is he going to bounce back from this? Will the Mavs? I'd like to think so, but honestly, I don't think so.

I'll be honest about one more thing. I'm pretty much one of the biggest Mavs fans there is. I've been around since 1980. But I've never liked Dirk. If he weren't a Mav, I wouldn't even root for him. He is a flawed superstar. He'll never be a gamer because he's limited physically, and he's soft mentally. I'd like to see him prove me wrong. But I don't think he will.

Next season? I dunno. I'm just disgusted. I hate that Nellie gets the last laugh. He doesn't deserve it. He's a quitter and has a loser mentality.

You know who I feel the worst for, though? Mark Cuban. He's the one that deserves the championship the most... he's been right all along, and he has nothing to show for it. Proof that there is no justice in this world.

aexchange · 05-04-2007, 07:49 AM

reactionary knee jerking going on. just chill out and come back in 5 months.

jthig32 · 05-04-2007, 07:50 AM

So you don't like Dirk because you think he's flawed, but you like Cuban, and feel the most sorry for him.

I'd say we weren't missing much with you not posting.

NYMavFan · 05-04-2007, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

So you don't like Dirk because you think he's flawed, but you like Cuban, and feel the most sorry for him.

I'd say we weren't missing much with you not posting.

Exactly. And this is what I'm talking about with this board. Bunch of freaking homers. Someone says something bad about the mavs and immediately gets accused of knee jerking. Half of you don't like Cuban either.

Let me tell you something. Cuban is the best owner in all of sports. Any Mavs fan who dislikes him as an owner is a moron, plain and simple. Most of you that don't like him as a person because he's brash and speaks out against the grain. Oh no! What a terrible guy.

Cuban got where he is by being that person. I'm going to paint with broad brush strokes here, but If he rubs you the wrong way, you're probably the exact opposite--timid and conventional. Too bad.

jthig32 · 05-04-2007, 08:02 AM

Well if you read the board as much as you say you do, then you'd realize that I am not a Cuban basher at all. I defend most of his decisions and his intentions.

However, he is most certainly a bit embarassing to this franchise at times. Being outspoken is one thing, acting like a child at most Mavs games is quite another.

My only real point is that someone who dislikes someone like Dirk and holds someone like Cuban in high esteem is probably not a real desireable person to be around or know.

And the best owner in all of sports bit is old. He's a very solid owner, but he certainly has his negatives as well.

Lor20 · 05-04-2007, 08:06 AM

cuban and the front office also made quite a few crappy aquisitions though which is why we are stuck well above the salary tax and have no real options for next year to change much personal. If you say its just dirks fault then you listen to much to the tv announcers and watch too few mavs games.
i think cuban did a good job during the season - he stayed quiet most of the time and had a few times where he defended his team. its all good.
dirks supportive cast is average. if he cant get going they cant either and the warriors did everything in their power to not get dirk going and it worked in game 1 and in the bay.
no reason to knee jerk or anything. If anyone doubts dirk can lead a team then watch how he lead the german national team in the european championships and in the world championships. he had a sucky sidecast yet lead them very far.

StackAttack · 05-04-2007, 08:09 AM

He's not wrong. Dirk has to be held accountable for attempting exactly 0 layups in the most important game of the season and scoring less in 40 minutes than Ager scored in 12.

kingmalaki · 05-04-2007, 08:11 AM

Man, it will be hard for Dirk to shed the choker label now. This pretty much takes the cake....

So it's pretty much been established that Dirk isn't the man to take y'all to the promised land. He just doesn't have "it". It's also been established that the surrounding talent on this team is VERY GOOD. I can't think of too many other squads that could still be in a game/series when their star player has vainshed.

Maybe it's best to parlay some of that extra talent to get a true Alpha-Dog in Dallas and let Dirk play second fiddle? You guys definately have enough young talent to make something happen, and more importantly, a very aggressive owner.

jthig32 · 05-04-2007, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StackAttack

He's not wrong. Dirk has to be held accountable for attempting exactly 0 layups in the most important game of the season and scoring less in 40 minutes than Ager scored in 12.

Notice I didn't argue with him on his main point.

But, his main point is in fact wrong. While Dirk carries a ton of blame, there is certainly plenty to spread around.

You know what I REALLY blame Dirk for right now? Being too nice to come out and blast Avery for his idiotic game plans. Most other superstars would have done it by now.

StackAttack · 05-04-2007, 08:14 AM

From what I gather, Avery's said the right things in every timeout (drive, get to the bonus, all the things we've been saying). The Mavs just didn't execute.

Whatever. The Dallas Mavericks did not deserve to win this series.

jthig32 · 05-04-2007, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StackAttack

From what I gather, Avery's said the right things in every timeout (drive, get to the bonus, all the things we've been saying). The Mavs just didn't execute.

Whatever. The Dallas Mavericks did not deserve to win this series.

You do realize Avery calls a play for every single offensive set, right?

So when Dirk is standing in the corner, jacking threes when he does finally touch the ball, you realize that's by Avery's design, right?

NYMavFan · 05-04-2007, 08:18 AM

You call it acting like a child at games. I think a lot of others would say he's just acting like a fan,and a passionate one at that. I never said he was perfect, but he is someone to be respected... not just as a Mavs owner but also as a business thinker. I'm sorry if you and many others allow one small part of his behavior blind you from that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

My only real point is that someone who dislikes someone like Dirk and holds someone like Cuban in high esteem is probably not a real desireable person to be around or know.

Oh, I'm quite sorry for disagreeing with you. Thanks for your excellent "point" here. Perhaps a better approach would be for you to actually tell me WHY you like Dirk despite the fact that he has come up short in every single playoff series except for last season.

You know nothing of me, but will go ahead and dismiss all of my opinions because I don't like Dirk and I do like Cuban. Well, good for you. You fit right in with the board. I know you'd like to keep the community tight and keep the dissenters out. That way, you won't have to hear all these uncomfortable opinions and can go on living your happy, homer-esque existence. No skin off my back. Like I said, there's a reason I don't post here much. Go ahead and tell yourself that it's better for the place that I don't. Rationalizing to make yourself feel better is a good way stay delusional.

NYMavFan · 05-04-2007, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

You do realize Avery calls a play for every single offensive set, right?

So when Dirk is standing in the corner, jacking threes when he does finally touch the ball, you realize that's by Avery's design, right?

Uhh, no.

He calls set plays but there is a lot of freedom within those plays. If you watched the game, you would've seen that Dirk's body language was timid the ENTIRE game. There were plenty of cases when he could've been aggressive by taking the shot or driving. But instead, he held the ball until the double came and then passed it out.

You can make excuses for him all you want, but unless you're blind or severely delusional, you would've seen that he just wasn't aggressive like he was in the first half of game 5.

Big Boy Laroux · 05-04-2007, 08:25 AM

TWO games in a row, he barely shoots in the second half. he may have been somewhat fighting for position in the first half, but he completely GAVE UP in the second half. if you're the star of the team, and you are fighting for position and not getting the ball, you better be in the face of EVERY SINGLE ONE of your teammates (during the game, in timeouts, etc.), saying "I AM OPEN! GET ME THE &^$&^$& BALL!" You don't just quit trying, which is exactly what dirk did. i watched dirk all game last night, and he was listlessly moving around the court on offense.

jthig32 · 05-04-2007, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYMavFan

Uhh, no.

He calls set plays but there is a lot of freedom within those plays. If you watched the game, you would've seen that Dirk's body language was timid the ENTIRE game. There were plenty of cases when he could've been aggressive by taking the shot or driving. But instead, he held the ball until the double came and then passed it out.

You can make excuses for him all you want, but unless you're blind or severely delusional, you would've seen that he just wasn't aggressive like he was in the first half of game 5.

Yes, he was less agressive. I've already stated that it's disappointing to see a superstar without the sack to scream at his teammates and coach for the ball.

Yes, he is somewhat fragile mentally, so when Avery draws up a gameplan that is not centered around him, he sees that as a sign that he needs to take it easy and not force things.

My point is that one would think that a "brilliant" coach would figure these things out, and make adjustments to get the best out of his star.

I hold both accountable, unlike you.

Rhylan · 05-04-2007, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

TWO games in a row, he barely shoots in the second half. he may have been somewhat fighting for position in the first half, but he completely GAVE UP in the second half. if you're the star of the team, and you are fighting for position and not getting the ball, you better be in the face of EVERY SINGLE ONE of your teammates (during the game, in timeouts, etc.), saying "I AM OPEN! GET ME THE &^$&^$& BALL!" You don't just quit trying, which is exactly what dirk did. i watched dirk all game last night, and he was listlessly moving around the court on offense.

This says it all.

In the first half of Game 5, Dirk attacked as soon as he touched the ball. Not the case last night.

He went passive, settled forlong jumpers in the first half, and when they didn't go, he disappeared.

He is one of the 5 or 6 most talented basketball players actively playing in the world today, but he's lacking in heart, or mind, or something. We've all seen Dirk get mad and get going, but it's a fatal flaw that he can't be bothered to muster it up more than a few times a season.

NYMavFan · 05-04-2007, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Yes, he was less agressive. I've already stated that it's disappointing to see a superstar without the sack to scream at his teammates and coach for the ball.

Yes, he is somewhat fragile mentally, so when Avery draws up a gameplan that is not centered around him, he sees that as a sign that he needs to take it easy and not force things.

My point is that one would think that a "brilliant" coach would figure these things out, and make adjustments to get the best out of his star.

I hold both accountable, unlike you.

Excuses. A superstar shouldn't need to be babied. No adjustments would've changed the fact that Dirk simply wasn't aggressive. He didn't look like he wanted the ball. And when he got it, he held it and waited.

Keep spinning it any way you want, if it makes you feel better. I'd rather live in reality, though.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-04-2007, 08:48 AM

How many of us would love to be Dirk Nowitzki? And how many of us would waste that God-given talent instead if we had the chance?

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-04-2007, 08:51 AM

ahahahahahahaha HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

(circus song)

do di dodilodiloodilodi do do dodilodidodidodi do do do dooooooooooo do do do do doooo do do do do do do dod do do do do do do do.......

Dtownsfinest · 05-04-2007, 08:53 AM

Dirk's been doing this since he's been in the league. The blame use to go to Nash and Finley on why Dirk couldn't lead the Mavericks. They've long gone and now there's no one left to blame. But Dirk fans still find a way to excuse Dirk's horrible play.

Usually Lurkin · 05-04-2007, 08:54 AM

A choke job like that starts at the top. 3 of 4 of the mavs at the top of the leadership hierarchy were no shows or worse this series: Avery, Dirk, and JET. To not blame all three is dumb.

left texas · 05-04-2007, 09:05 AM

I can't blame just Dirk, it took everyone to stink the place up like night.

Dtownsfinest · 05-04-2007, 09:07 AM

AJ and JET choking is a result of Dirk's choke job. If Dirk is on his job then the Mavs would still be in the series. What is AJ suppose to do when the MVP of the league isn't doing his job? Why do you think only 2 other players have recieved the MVP when they have be exited in the 1st round? Its because MVP's don't do what Dirk did in this series. The team goes as the MVP goes and if he's stinking it up why expect the rest of the team to not be effected.

Silk Smoov · 05-04-2007, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Dirk's been doing this since he's been in the league. The blame use to go to Nash and Finley on why Dirk couldn't lead the Mavericks. They've long gone and now there's no one left to blame. But Dirk fans still find a way to excuse Dirk's horrible play.

Dtown,
You know how I feel about Dirk. That is why I have always called him the Lion that needs to go to the Wizard of Oz. This series comes down to this in Game 6. Baron on one leg with heart, outdueled Dirk with 2 legs and no heart. Clearly, this team follows Dirk's lead, and Dirk is NOT a leader.

People can point blame to Avery all day long, but true fans and high basketball I.Q. NBA fans knows that Avery is to blame for ONLY really game 1 starting line-up, but the rest is on Dirk.

If you any of you get a chance to see Dirk's comments b4 Game 4 and Game 5, then you all will see who Dirk really is. He is a coward and it really hurts to be a Mavs fan right now. Thats real. The Mavs deserve better than this. I hate to say it, but it is time for Dirk to go. Dirk has taken us as far as he could. Last year was the end of the road with Dirk leading. He is NOT a leader and never has. On top of that, Dirk would tell you the same.

I think the Mavs could get another Superstar for Dirk, and the person in mind to me is KG. It is time to call MN up, and see what are the options. The person I feel the sorriest for is Stack. Time is running out on him, and Stack did all he could to try to shoulder the team as best he could.

Murphy3 · 05-04-2007, 09:09 AM

Dirk isn't the only person to blame. But, he's a good place to start.
The bad thing is that he validated the thoughts of so many people that were basing their claims on faulty logic with little to no statistical backing.

Where does Dirk go mentally from here? Does he decide to bust his ass and work on his shortcomings like usual or has the past couple of weeks been too much for him to handle going on from here...

Mavfreak · 05-04-2007, 09:10 AM

B.S. There is nothing wrong with Dirk and he's not responsible for losing the series. Face it: the Warriors out played the Mavs. Stop trying to blame Dirk, or anyone else. The Mavs were out of rhythm and GS was on fire. Get over it!

Dtownsfinest · 05-04-2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Dtown,
You know how I feel about Dirk. That is why I have always called him the Lion that needs to go to the Wizard of Oz. This series comes down to this in Game 6. Baron on one leg with heart, outdueled Dirk with 2 legs and no heart. Clearly, this team follows Dirk's lead, and Dirk is NOT a leader.

People can point blame to Avery all day long, but true fans and high basketball I.Q. NBA fans knows that Avery is to blame for ONLY really game 1 starting line-up, but the rest is on Dirk.

If you any of you get a chance to see Dirk's comments b4 Game 4 and Game 5, then you all will see who Dirk really is. He is a coward and it really hurts to be a Mavs fan right now. Thats real. The Mavs deserve better than this. I hate to say it, but it is time for Dirk to go. Dirk has taken us as far as he could. Last year was the end of the road with Dirk leading. He is NOT a leader and never has. On top of that, Dirk would tell you the same.

I think the Mavs could get another Superstar for Dirk, and the person in mind to me is KG. It is time to call MN up, and see what are the options. The person I feel the sorriest for is Stack. Time is running out on him, and Stack did all he could to try to shoulder the team as best he could.

Thing about KG is that he can't get the T-Wovles anywhere and frankly I don't think this team's role players are that much better than the Wolves to be honest. If i'm bringing in KG I want him alongside Dirk. Dirk's a beast. I think he would flourish like he did when Finley and Nash were here due to the spotlight being off of him. Being known as that 2nd guy. But its time to give up on him being the #1 option because he's not that and he has never been that. People have been disguised by their mancrush on him.

Dtownsfinest · 05-04-2007, 09:12 AM

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

B.S. There is nothing wrong with Dirk and he's not responsible for losing the series. Face it: the Warriors out played the Mavs. Stop trying to blame Dirk, or anyone else. The Mavs were out of rhythm and GS was on fire. Get over it!

You must be on crack. Or have your face in Dirk's crack. What about what you just witnessed makes you believe Dirk should get a free ride? No blame at all? Now if you want to say that there are also others to blame then be my guest. There's an argument for that. But there's absolutely no way in hell that Dirk had no play in why the Mavs lost this series. 8 points? 2-13? Did you watch the series?

DubOverdose · 05-04-2007, 09:15 AM

IMO, Avery is the main one to blame for this series. Game 1 was just disgusting. Throughout the series he's gone small with George rather than forcing a style upon the Ws. By doing this he's abandoned his system. Last night we started out chucking 3s. Even when Stack was making them, I was yelling at the TV. We all know that's not how the Mavs win games anymore. Ours 3s stopped falling, and the Ws built a huge lead. Yes, this team was hurt by Dirk not being more aggressive, but as you could see, Avery wanted 3 pointers to be shot. He wasn't demanding that players drive to the rim.

jacktruth · 05-04-2007, 09:26 AM

My beef is primarily with Avery. This team was not ready for the playoffs.

Our last 2 playoff series, we we recieved the business end of two of the biggest upsets in NBA history. If people don't see that as a major issue, they are lying to themselves.

Dirk has been in a phyche funk since he missed the last shot in the Phoenix game. Possibly since the finals last year. That is a coaching problem. Dirk needs to get through his head that this is just basketball. Enjoy it. Don't carry your burdens. Have a short memory of your failures. We all hate players like Davis and Jackson, but they hit one ass-load of shots because no missed shot makes them think they will miss the next. Part of that is the individual, but it is also coaching.

Avery mentioned in the post-game 5 interview that they finally got thier offense on track. Why did it take that long? Coaching inexperience.

But in the end, I blame Golden State for putting together 5 unbelievable basketball games to knock out the #1 seed. Nellie is an excellent coach.

Usually Lurkin · 05-04-2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

People can point blame to Avery all day long, but true fans and high basketball I.Q. NBA fans knows that Avery is to blame for ONLY really game 1 starting line-up, but the rest is on Dirk.

There was only 1 home game loss this series. And it wasn't the 1 game that Dirk didn't show up - because Dirk didn't show up for any of them. The rest of the team and the crowd gave the mavs their wins. The only home loss is the one you mentioned, that Avery gave away. Dirk has had craptastic playoff series in the past, but they've pulled them out because of good coaching, and good play by the rest of the team. If Terry had hit his shots, for example, and been the #2 guy that he was supposed to be, or even the #3 guy that he's turned out to be, then the Mavs have a much better chance at this series.

If any one of Avery, JET, or Dirk showed up for the series, then the Mavs would have won it.

Mavfreak · 05-04-2007, 09:32 AM

I've never even seen crack. I watched the series F-head. You can blame anyone you want, be my guest.

Dtownsfinest · 05-04-2007, 09:33 AM

Quote:

I've never even seen crack. I watched the series F-head. You can blame anyone you want, be my guest.

If you're not a crackhead then you're blind.

TripleDipping · 05-04-2007, 09:45 AM

Dissapointment is the only thing I feel inside. Dirk is not the only one to blame but he's definitely a big reason the Mavs lost the series.

At this point, I won't be terribly sad if Dirk is traded. But my knees are jerking at a 10 richter scale so I might change my mind later.

MFFL · 05-04-2007, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

IMO, Avery is the main one to blame for this series. Game 1 was just disgusting.

Yep it was. But he was trying to counteract Nellie's intimate knowledge of the Mavs with a switch. It didn't work.

Quote:

Throughout the series he's gone small with George rather than forcing a style upon the Ws. By doing this he's abandoned his system.

I saw Diop on the floor a lot - isn't he one of our centers? But we couldn't play two defense first players at the same time. GS immediately dropped into a zone and we couldn't score.

Quote:

Last night we started out chucking 3s. Even when Stack was making them, I was yelling at the TV. We all know that's not how the Mavs win games anymore. Ours 3s stopped falling, and the Ws built a huge lead. Yes, this team was hurt by Dirk not being more aggressive, but as you could see, Avery wanted 3 pointers to be shot. He wasn't demanding that players drive to the rim.

EVERY timeout Avery was saying "go to the rim" but the players didn't. And that's the only thing that I will blame Avery for - not getting his players to play the way they were supposed to.

I blame Dirk because he missed shots he should have hit and was awful defensively. I think this performance will shut up anyone who thinks he's even average defensively.

I blame the front office for not getting a 2nd star - someone make GS pay for doubling Dirk. And that probably points at Cuban since he's the guy who is determined to cut the Mavs salary to below LT levels.

And our off season acquistions? Really, when George is an important role player for a team then it has serious problems. If he was worth a damn then why did the talent starved Lakers let him go?

I blame Jet because he sucked. That new contract was certainly more than he deserved.

I blame Stack because he thinks he is still 25. He'd drive to the rim but fail to finish EVERY TIME. Instead of a string of "And 1's" - he got free throws.

And I blame myself. I >knew< the Mavs were smoke and mirrors this year. But I got sucked back in with all the regular season records we set.

Murphy3 · 05-04-2007, 09:49 AM

This would be an awful series to judge any Power Forward defensively... There's no one on the court for GS that a PF should be able to match up with when the Mavs had a center on the court.
But I do agree that played quite a bit like...shit.

No, I don't think that the Mavs were smoke and mirrors this year. Not at all. I just think they kinda lost it towards the end of the year. Where did it go? I don't know. But the Mavs you saw play the final 10-12 games of the regular season and into the playoffs was not the same Mavs team that played the first 70 or so games of the season.

Usually Lurkin · 05-04-2007, 09:53 AM

Nice post MFFL - a good list of blame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFFL

EVERY timeout Avery was saying "go to the rim" but the players didn't. And that's the only thing that I will blame Avery for - not getting his players to play the way they were supposed to.

That should be enough because that is his ONLY job.

Quote:

I blame Dirk because he missed shots he should have hit and was awful defensively. I think this performance will shut up anyone who thinks he's even average defensively.

well, he is way above average offensively, but this series didn't show it.

Quote:

I blame the front office for not getting a 2nd star - someone make GS pay for doubling Dirk. And that probably points at Cuban since he's the guy who is determined to cut the Mavs salary to below LT levels.

ding, ding, ding! I agreed with not picking up AI earlier in the season because of chemistry, and balance, and not screwing with a team on a season long roll. Looks like they could have used it. The rumors of KG for J-Ho talk are also looking much better in retrospect.

Quote:

And our off season acquistions? Really, when George is an important role player for a team then it has serious problems. If he was worth a damn then why did the talent starved Lakers let him go?

and it sure seems now like Reggie Miller might have been more usable than that bench weight they did pick up late in the season.

DevinFuture · 05-04-2007, 10:01 AM

I really felt like this thing was decided in the first quarter. I call it the Antione Walker effect. The Mavs made 7 of their first 11 3-pointers and it made me cringe. They did not attack the basket and that's what they needed to do to win. They hit 3-pointers and got comfortable shooting them, decided they could hit them, and kept taking them the entire damn game.
Plenty of blame to go around. Dirk certainly played like crap, but I just kept getting frustrated at all the 3s shot. For the love of god, guys, take it to the basket. No more 3s!
By the late 3rd quarter I was getting really sarcastic with those I was watching the game with. "Hey! I know what we need now! Another 3!" And that's what they did. They kept shooting 3s. I have to bame Avery on some level. I know he probably didn't tell the guys, "Go out there and shoot a bunch of 3s." But that's what they did, and it didn't stop, so it was kind of Avery's de facto plan.

alexamenos · 05-04-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Where does Dirk go mentally from here? Does he decide to bust his ass and work on his shortcomings like usual or has the past couple of weeks been too much for him to handle going on from here...

My money is on the dude nuttin' it up and getting better next year....people who have followed his career closely know that there is nothing in his history or character to suggest otherwise.

Dtownsfinest · 05-04-2007, 10:15 AM

Off topic or maybe it is but does Devean George ever make a shot? Damn..He was useless this year.