GSWs are 0-6, Miami is 1-7 - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

fluid.forty.one · 12-03-2007, 12:15 AM

But it seems skewed for you to appear to root for one ex Maverick, especially a non player, over a roster full of Mavericks.

untitled · 12-03-2007, 12:17 AM

Chum, honestly, do you REALLY consider yourself to be a Mavs fan at this point? The difference between your posts re: the Mavs and the Cowboys is night and day - with the Cowboys it's eternal optimism, but with the Mavs it's eternal cynicism. Based on your posts, no one on this board would question your loyalty to the Boys or your desire to see them win. On the other hand, it seems to me that you enjoy your schadenfreude-based pleasure from a Mavs loss (especially to GS or PHX) more than you do the joy you get (if any) from a Mavs win.

chumdawg · 12-03-2007, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

But it seems skewed for you to appear to root for one ex Maverick, especially a non player, over a roster full of Mavericks.

If that's the way it seems to you, I can understand how you must feel. But I do not root for erstwhile Mavs *over* present Mavs. I simply root for them all. I don't want Nellie to fail, with Golden State. I rooted like hell for Nellie when he was a Mav. Why should I want him to fail? He pretty much made these Mavericks what they are. That should be recognized, and appreciated.

If the Warriors and the Mavs meet up again this year, it will be just as painful for me as it was last year. Or as it was in '05 and '06, when the Mavs had to face another one of their own, in Steve Nash. Or as it was when they had to face Finley. These matchups are not at all easy for a bleeds-blue Mavs fan.

But make no mistake, if the Mavs can't win the title then I want a Nellie or a Nash or a Finley to do so.

fluid.forty.one · 12-03-2007, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled

Chum, honestly, do you REALLY consider yourself to be a Mavs fan at this point? The difference between your posts re: the Mavs and the Cowboys is night and day - with the Cowboys it's eternal optimism, but with the Mavs it's eternal cynicism. Based on your posts, no one on this board would question your loyalty to the Boys or your desire to see them win. On the other hand, it seems to me that you enjoy your schadenfreude-based pleasure from a Mavs loss (especially to GS or PHX) more than you do the joy you get (if any) from a Mavs win.

I made this exact point during last years season, so props for someone else noticing it. I can't imagine TO getting traded to the Eagles, beating the Boys in the first round, and chum being happy for TO.

fluid.forty.one · 12-03-2007, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

But make no mistake, if the Mavs can't win the title then I want a Nellie or a Nash or a Finley to do so.

I understand that.. but I would rather the CURRENT squad win over any ex-mav on a different team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

These matchups are not at all easy for a bleeds-blue Mavs fan.

I hope you're not insinuating that those of us who dislike Nash and Nellie now are less of a Mavs fan because of it.

chumdawg · 12-03-2007, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I hope you're not insinuating that those of us who dislike Nash and Nellie now are less of a Mavs fan because of it.

If you became a Mavs fan the last year or two, that's one thing. But how could anyone who has been a fan of the Mavs for years DISLIKE Nash and Nellie?

That's the answer to your question. No true Mavs fan could.

Underdog · 12-03-2007, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If you became a Mavs fan the last year or two, that's one thing. But how could anyone who has been a fan of the Mavs for years DISLIKE Nash and Nellie?

That's the answer to your question. No true Mavs fan could.

Always hated Nellie - glad he's gone... Best thing Cuban ever did...

chumdawg · 12-03-2007, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled

The difference between your posts re: the Mavs and the Cowboys is night and day

There is also a night-and-day difference in the way that the respective organizations treat their personnel, past and present. Emmit finished his career in another uniform, sadly, but did Jerry Jones encourage Cowboys fans to boo him? No. Jerry put him in the ring of honor. For that matter, did Jerry ever balk on paying the market price for a loyal Cowboy when the Cowboys were in their prime? Hell no, he didn't. That's why the Cowboys went to salary cap hell for a while. And that's why recently Jones has said that he hopes they get in salary cap hell again. When you have a winner, you pay your players. You worry about the future later. And you CERTAINLY don't do something so shit-all stupid as to let your personal feelings about an agent cost your team competitively.

If Jerry Jones were to not match on Romo because he thought Romo's agent railroaded him, and Romo went on to be everything that our quarterback was not, then I would be on Jerry's ass, too. (As would anyone else with a minimal capacity for reason.) But Jones is too smart for that.

So, to answer your question, Jerry Jones's Cowboys are a whole hell of a lot easier to root for than Mark Cuban's Mavericks, because Jerry doesn't kick the fans in the nuts every time he wants to put a dollar in his pocket or he thinks that he knows best how to coach the team.

alby · 12-03-2007, 01:06 AM

Jerry Jones is definitely not Mark Cuban

they have their own ways of running their respective franchises.

I agree with you--if you produce for him, Jerry will take care of you through and through. Whereas Cuban would turn his back on you in an instant if he saw a potential opportunity elsewhere. Cut-throat, but that's what makes Cuban Cuban. Does it discourage other players from coming here, you bet your ass it does and I don't think people on here realize that.

However, the difference between Cuban and Jerry is that Cuban has kept the Mavericks winners ever since he took his owner's seat. The Cowboys, on the other hand, have not won a playoff game in more than a decade.

With that being said,
GO COWBOYS
GO MAVERICKS

Underdog · 12-03-2007, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

There is also a night-and-day difference in the way that the respective organizations treat their personnel, past and present. Emmit finished his career in another uniform, sadly, but did Jerry Jones encourage Cowboys fans to boo him? No. Jerry put him in the ring of honor. For that matter, did Jerry ever balk on paying the market price for a loyal Cowboy when the Cowboys were in their prime? Hell no, he didn't. That's why the Cowboys went to salary cap hell for a while. And that's why recently Jones has said that he hopes they get in salary cap hell again. When you have a winner, you pay your players. You worry about the future later. And you CERTAINLY don't do something so shit-all stupid as to let your personal feelings about an agent cost your team competitively.

If Jerry Jones were to not match on Romo because he thought Romo's agent railroaded him, and Romo went on to be everything that our quarterback was not, then I would be on Jerry's ass, too. (As would anyone else with a minimal capacity for reason.) But Jones is too smart for that.

So, to answer your question, Jerry Jones's Cowboys are a whole hell of a lot easier to root for than Mark Cuban's Mavericks, because Jerry doesn't kick the fans in the nuts every time he wants to put a dollar in his pocket or he thinks that he knows best how to coach the team.

Emmit Smith won a Championship... Steve Nash didn't...

Also, would you say the Johnson/Jones split was any prettier than the Cuban/Nellie split?

chumdawg · 12-03-2007, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Emmit Smith won a Championship... Steve Nash didn't...

He didn't get enough chance to. After all, we still believe that Dirk can win one here, don't we?

Quote:

Also, would you say the Johnson/Jones split was any prettier than the Cuban/Nellie split?

Since Jimmy didn't come back and embarrass our ass in the playoffs, and Jerry did go on to another championship post-Jimmy, then I'd say that Nellie certainly took Cuban's pants down in a way that Jimmy never did Jerry.

Flacolaco · 12-03-2007, 01:17 AM

So when wade 'country bubkin' philips leads the cows to a super bowl loss, is The Tuna going to be recognized by 'these sorts of "fans" ' as the guy (Nellie) who put it all together?

alby · 12-03-2007, 01:19 AM

the media has given credit to Parcells a lot so far this year...

have you guys heard Roy Williams and Romo speak of the Big Tuna? admiration

Underdog · 12-03-2007, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Since Jimmy didn't come back and embarrass our ass in the playoffs, and Jerry did go on to another championship post-Jimmy, then I'd say that Nellie certainly took Cuban's pants down in a way that Jimmy never did Jerry.

I was getting at Jerry Jones' business tactics vs. Cuban's...

You can't tell me that letting Nash & Nellie go is worse than letting a coach that led you to 2 (let's call it 3) Super Bowls just because of personal differences...

jthig32 · 12-03-2007, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If you became a Mavs fan the last year or two, that's one thing. But how could anyone who has been a fan of the Mavs for years DISLIKE Nash and Nellie?

That's the answer to your question. No true Mavs fan could.

Ridiculous.

Some Mavs fans (like me) will respect what Nellie did for this franchise, but will always have a bitter taste in their mouths over the way Nellie quit on this team.

As far as Nash, I still love him, but nothing hurts worse than seeing him beat us. Both he and Fin moved to hated rivals (well, the Suns became one by beating us in the playoffs) and because of that I can never root for them.

alby · 12-03-2007, 01:25 AM

I agree jthig

there are only four teams that I truly want us to beat everytime we play them.

GS. Houston. SA. Phoenix.

GS just because of last year.. but just like Sac, that will die out in a couple years
Pho because of Nash
SA is self explanatory
Houston is self explanatory

But with phoenix, it's not like they have always been our rivals. It's all because of Mr. Steve Cash--he made the team so fun to watch and got so much attention, that I just couldn't take anymore.

untitled · 12-03-2007, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

There is also a night-and-day difference in the way that the respective organizations treat their personnel, past and present. Emmit finished his career in another uniform, sadly, but did Jerry Jones encourage Cowboys fans to boo him? No. Jerry put him in the ring of honor. For that matter, did Jerry ever balk on paying the market price for a loyal Cowboy when the Cowboys were in their prime? Hell no, he didn't. That's why the Cowboys went to salary cap hell for a while. And that's why recently Jones has said that he hopes they get in salary cap hell again. When you have a winner, you pay your players. You worry about the future later. And you CERTAINLY don't do something so shit-all stupid as to let your personal feelings about an agent cost your team competitively.

If Jerry Jones were to not match on Romo because he thought Romo's agent railroaded him, and Romo went on to be everything that our quarterback was not, then I would be on Jerry's ass, too. (As would anyone else with a minimal capacity for reason.) But Jones is too smart for that.

So, to answer your question, Jerry Jones's Cowboys are a whole hell of a lot easier to root for than Mark Cuban's Mavericks, because Jerry doesn't kick the fans in the nuts every time he wants to put a dollar in his pocket or he thinks that he knows best how to coach the team.

You sure have a selective memory, and the blanket, categorical statements you make re: how Mavs fans MUST behave is akin to something Doc or Murph would say. It's unfortunate since you obviously have more to offer than either of those two.

First off, you're basing your opinion on Cuban's contract negotiations on his dealings with ONE player - Steve Nash. Go ask the other cornerstones of the franchise how they've been paid since 2000, when Cuban bought the Mavs. Mike Finley will tell you that Cuban made him one of the highest paid players in the league and the highest paid player in Mavs history (at the time). And something tells me that Dirk isn't having trouble paying the bills these days. Then check out JET's, and Harris', and JHo's current salaries, and I think you'll see that, for the most part, Cubes takes care of his players - hell, I'd opine that he's so willing to take care of these core guys BECAUSE of the lesson he learned by not paying Nash. Just look at the significant increases in the Mavs' payroll since 2000: http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/mavs/...s/mavs-sal.txt

Does this dramatic increase in payroll really reflect an owner who is solely concerned with lining his pockets?

While I concede that not matching the Suns' offer was, in retrospect, a mistake, I don't feel that parting ways with Nellie was the wrong decision. Besides, wasn't Nellie one of the highest paid coaches in the NBA during his last few years with the Mavs? Don't get me wrong, I liked Nellie, I really did - but it is, and was, difficult to ignore the man's extensive track record of success....in the regular season. The man is the second-winningest coach in NBA history, right? Yet he's never sniffed the finals once (as a coach). He's the Alex Rodriguez of NBA coaches - he's at his best with the stakes are lowest. By the time the Mavs moved on, I felt that it was time for the organization to set its sights a little higher and bring somebody in that could take us all the way. I'm not saying that Avery is the guy for the job, all I'm saying is that I don't think that Nellie is/was.

Of course, only time will tell - but expecting an new owner or new coach to be absolutely flawless in their respective jobs is a bit much. They're still human and will continue to make mistakes in the future. And re: Jerry Jones, what about Jimmy Johnson? Did a two-time NFL championship coach (with far less experience) deserve to be fired, whereas a zero-time NBA championship coach (with far more experience) didn't?

chumdawg · 12-03-2007, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Ridiculous.

Some Mavs fans (like me) will respect what Nellie did for this franchise, but will always have a bitter taste in their mouths over the way Nellie quit on this team.

As far as Nash, I still love him, but nothing hurts worse than seeing him beat us. Both he and Fin moved to hated rivals (well, the Suns became one by beating us in the playoffs) and because of that I can never root for them.

Bitter? Bitter taste in your mouth? Nellie never quit on his team. Cuban quit on Nellie. Cuban even went further than that. He undercut Nellie. Nellie is a saint for staying even that long.

Both Nash and Finley moved on because they were no longer wanted enough here. Once again, look to ownership for your bitter taste.

Do you have season tickets? You line Mark Cuban's pockets every year, and what does he do with it? He profits while Steve Nash walks and beats us in the playoffs, while Mike Finley wins a ring and we don't. Cuban takes your money while he pisses on the players you go to the arena to support.

FINtastic · 12-03-2007, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Since Jimmy didn't come back and embarrass our ass in the playoffs, and Jerry did go on to another championship post-Jimmy, then I'd say that Nellie certainly took Cuban's pants down in a way that Jimmy never did Jerry.

Only because Jimmy left Barry one of the greatest rosters ever assembled in NFL history. And Barry still screwed that up by not winning a Super Bowl in his first year here. Jerry had to sign Deion in order to keep Barry from screwing it up a second year in a row. Nellie left behind a good roster that his son had assembled, but there's really no comparison. Jerry cheated the Cowboys out of one Super Bowl and had Jimmy stuck around maybe we wouldn't have fizzled so quickly the next few seasons after Super Bowl XXX. Instead you had Jerry and Barry bungling draft pick after draft pick for the next few years and killing the future of the Cowboys.

jthig32 · 12-03-2007, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Bitter? Bitter taste in your mouth? Nellie never quit on his team. Cuban quit on Nellie. Cuban even went further than that. He undercut Nellie. Nellie is a saint for staying even that long.

Both Nash and Finley moved on because they were no longer wanted enough here. Once again, look to ownership for your bitter taste.

Do you have season tickets? You line Mark Cuban's pockets every year, and what does he do with it? He profits while Steve Nash walks and beats us in the playoffs, while Mike Finley wins a ring and we don't. Cuban takes your money while he pisses on the players you go to the arena to support.

The Nellie thing has been rehashed over and over. Agree to disagree. Whatever. Nellie quit on this basketball team because whittle Stevie wasn't around anymore.

I never said that I root against Nash and Finley because they left. I fully respect Steve's decision and would make the same one every time. And Fin had no decision in the matter, obviously.

I also agreed with both decisions at the time. I still agree that waiving Finley was the right move, as does pretty much everyone else. Nash..well, that's been rehashed ad nauseum as well.

And no, I do not have season tickets, but I wish I did. I will gladly support the Mavs and Cuban, and all he's done/is doing for the basketball in the city of Dallas.

Underdog · 12-03-2007, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

He profits while Steve Nash walks and beats us in the playoffs.

Wow, I seem to remember beating the Suns in 6 last time we played them in the playoffs...

chumdawg · 12-03-2007, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled

You sure have a selective memory, and the blanket, categorical statements you make re: how Mavs fans MUST behave is akin to something Doc or Murph would say. It's unfortunate since you obviously have more to offer than either of those two.

First off, you're basing your opinion on Cuban's contract negotiations on his dealings with ONE player - Steve Nash. Go ask the other cornerstones of the franchise how they've been paid since 2000, when Cuban bought the Mavs. Mike Finley will tell you that Cuban made him one of the highest paid players in the league and the highest paid player in Mavs history (at the time). And something tells me that Dirk isn't having trouble paying the bills these days. Then check out JET's, and Harris', and JHo's current salaries, and I think you'll see that, for the most part, Cubes takes care of his players - hell, I'd opine that he's so willing to take care of these core guys BECAUSE of the lesson he learned by not paying Nash. Just look at the significant increases in the Mavs' payroll since 2000: http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/mavs/...s/mavs-sal.txt

Does this dramatic increase in payroll really reflect an owner who is solely concerned with lining his pockets?

While I concede that not matching the Suns' offer was, in retrospect, a mistake, I don't feel that parting ways with Nellie was the wrong decision. Besides, wasn't Nellie one of the highest paid coaches in the NBA during his last few years with the Mavs? Don't get me wrong, I liked Nellie, I really did - but it is, and was, difficult to ignore the man's extensive track record of success....in the regular season. The man is the second-winningest coach in NBA history, right? Yet he's never sniffed the finals once (as a coach). He's the Alex Rodriguez of NBA coaches - he's at his best with the stakes are lowest. By the time the Mavs moved on, I felt that it was time for the organization to set its sights a little higher and bring somebody in that could take us all the way. I'm not saying that Avery is the guy for the job, all I'm saying is that I don't think that Nellie is/was.

Of course, only time will tell - but expecting an new owner or new coach to be absolutely flawless in their respective jobs is a bit much. They're still human and will continue to make mistakes in the future. And re: Jerry Jones, what about Jimmy Johnson? Did a two-time NFL championship coach (with far less experience) deserve to be fired, whereas a zero-time NBA championship coach (with far more experience) didn't?

You thought that Nellie wasn't the coach...despite the fact that he took us from the dregs of the NBA to the freakin' WCF in five years' time? And you also thought that it would be a good idea to turn the reins over to someone else--anyone else--even if it was a rookie coach who would waste several years of Dirk's prime while he tried to figure out what it is that NBA coaches actually do?

Nice. Good luck in your own strategic endeavours. I'm sure you are also among the group of people who feel that Nellie didn't beat Avery last year, but rather that the Mavericks ran into a "hot team."

On payroll...don't get me started. We are in a very, very lucrative market--much more so than, say, a New Orleans or a Portland--and our owner is profiting plenty, as he himself has said. Other teams are losing money because they want to win, and we are busy shedding salary.

FINtastic · 12-03-2007, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Bitter? Bitter taste in your mouth? Nellie never quit on his team. Cuban quit on Nellie. Cuban even went further than that. He undercut Nellie. Nellie is a saint for staying even that long.

Both Nash and Finley moved on because they were no longer wanted enough here. Once again, look to ownership for your bitter taste.

Do you have season tickets? You line Mark Cuban's pockets every year, and what does he do with it? He profits while Steve Nash walks and beats us in the playoffs, while Mike Finley wins a ring and we don't. Cuban takes your money while he pisses on the players you go to the arena to support.

Do you find it the least bit ironic that you rail on Cuban for being a greedy pig because he doens't want to pay a luxury tax through the roof for a 31 year old point guard that was good but not great and whose own coach doubted his durability? Meanwhile you blindly support Nash after leaving for roughly $10 million extra when he already has all the money he would ever want and don't seem to think of him as being all that greedy.

Cuban is greedy but so is everyone else. What makes him so different?

Underdog · 12-03-2007, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You thought that Nellie wasn't the coach...despite the fact that he took us from the dregs of the NBA to the freakin' WCF in five years' time? And you also thought that it would be a good idea to turn the reins over to someone else--anyone else--even if it was a rookie coach who would waste several years of Dirk's prime while he tried to figure out what it is that NBA coaches actually do?

Nice. Good luck in your own strategic endeavours. I'm sure you are also among the group of people who feel that Nellie didn't beat Avery last year, but rather that the Mavericks ran into a "hot team."

Nellie didn't beat us because he's better - he beat us because he knew this team inside & out from having coached us for several years... If he never coached the Mavs, he would have never beat the Mavs in the playoffs (just like he couldn't beat anyone else...)

jthig32 · 12-03-2007, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

On payroll...don't get me started. We are in a very, very lucrative market--much more so than, say, a New Orleans or a Portland--and our owner is profiting plenty, as he himself has said. Other teams are losing money because they want to win, and we are busy shedding salary.

You have now stepped completely outside of reality and are dealing in utter fantasy. This team is most certainly not "shedding salary".

Have they made some salary minded moves over the past few seasons? Sure.

But this team is not shedding salary. The point is not whether the Mavs are turning a profit. All NBA teams are turning a profit, if by no other means than the value of the franchise rising.

However, many, many owners, even the owners of great teams, allow luxury tax and other salary issues to stand in the way of success. Cuban is much more willing to cross those lines than just about anyone else.

This is the one area where you lose much credibility and show your true colors, because you continue to harp on Cuban for salary when Phoenix is selling away draft picks and giving away their only low post defender because of the salary tax.

chumdawg · 12-03-2007, 01:44 AM

"Whittle Stevie." I like how you say that, thig. You do know that the guy has two MVP's, right? How about "whittle Tom Brady" or "whittle Tony Romo" or...god forbid..."whittle Dirky"?

Would you keep a stiff upper lip if your precious "whittle Dirky" went to another team because we didn't want him anymore?

FINtastic · 12-03-2007, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

On payroll...don't get me started. We are in a very, very lucrative market--much more so than, say, a New Orleans or a Portland--and our owner is profiting plenty, as he himself has said. Other teams are losing money because they want to win, and we are busy shedding salary.

Who are those teams? The Spurs don't want any part of paying the luxury tax and the Phoenix Suns badly bungled the Joe Johnson deal trying to save a few bucks and trade their draft picks yearly for cash. I guess you can throw out the Knicks, but that's only because the owner is an idiot and I'm not really sure he's in it for winning really. I don't see all these teams who are way over the cap because they want to win.

untitled · 12-03-2007, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You thought that Nellie wasn't the coach...despite the fact that he took us from the dregs of the NBA to the freakin' WCF in five years' time? And you also thought that it would be a good idea to turn the reins over to someone else--anyone else--even if it was a rookie coach who would waste several years of Dirk's prime while he tried to figure out what it is that NBA coaches actually do?

Read my post over again, I think you skimmed through it too quickly - I explicitly stated that I was NOT saying Avery was the guy to get us there. And I also explicitly stated why I felt Nellie wouldn't get us to the promised land - because, after all of his years of success, the man has never even been to the finals. Not once.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Nice. Good luck in your own strategic endeavours. I'm sure you are also among the group of people who feel that Nellie didn't beat Avery last year, but rather that the Mavericks ran into a "hot team."

You know what they say happens when you assume...

I never said anything about last year's debacle, and I fully admit that Nellie AND the Warriors made Avery AND the Mavs look like their bitches. The Warriors weren't the "hot team", they were the better team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

On payroll...don't get me started. We are in a very, very lucrative market--much more so than, say, a New Orleans or a Portland--and our owner is profiting plenty, as he himself has said. Other teams are losing money because they want to win, and we are busy shedding salary.

Sources, please?

jthig32 · 12-03-2007, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

"Whittle Stevie." I like how you say that, thig. You do know that the guy has two MVP's, right? How about "whittle Tom Brady" or "whittle Tony Romo" or...god forbid..."whittle Dirky"?

Would you keep a stiff upper lip if your precious "whittle Dirky" went to another team because we didn't want him anymore?

The points is that Nellie decided not to coach this team anymore because Steve Nash was gone. He pouted and went through the motions until Cuban had had enough and agreed to pay him to go away.

FINtastic · 12-03-2007, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

There is also a night-and-day difference in the way that the respective organizations treat their personnel, past and present. Emmit finished his career in another uniform, sadly, but did Jerry Jones encourage Cowboys fans to boo him? No. Jerry put him in the ring of honor. For that matter, did Jerry ever balk on paying the market price for a loyal Cowboy when the Cowboys were in their prime? Hell no, he didn't. That's why the Cowboys went to salary cap hell for a while. And that's why recently Jones has said that he hopes they get in salary cap hell again. When you have a winner, you pay your players. You worry about the future later.

The Patriots don't do that and it seems to work out quite nicely for them.

alby · 12-03-2007, 01:56 AM

The Patriots cheat.

chumdawg · 12-03-2007, 01:59 AM

Just imagine in your mind... Just imagine if when the Allan Houston clause had come about, Cuban had said, "We're not cutting Michael Finley, no matter how much money it would save us. Michael Finley is a cornerstone of our franchise, and he isn't going anywhere."

Note also that Allan Houston didn't even get cut with the Allan Houston rule.

Just imagine, also, if Mark Cuban had said, "We're not letting Steve Nash get away. We will pay him more than anyone else will pay him. He is a cornerstone of our franchise."

Cuban could have done that. He has made a crapload on money on the Mavericks, and he certainly could have spent a little of it to satisfy the lifelong fans. But as it is, he's a little richer (as if he needed it), and we are without two franchise cornerstones. Cuban 2, fans 0.

FINtastic · 12-03-2007, 01:59 AM

Quote:

The Patriots cheat.

People make way too big of a deal about that. When you are winning by 20-30 points every game, I don't think a little video camera is the cause of it. By gosh, I hate the Patriots as much as the next guy but they are darn good franchise run by a darn good football man.

FINtastic · 12-03-2007, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Just imagine in your mind... Just imagine if when the Allan Houston clause had come about, Cuban had said, "We're not cutting Michael Finley, no matter how much money it would save us. Michael Finley is a cornerstone of our franchise, and he isn't going anywhere."

But Michael Finley wasn't the cornerstone of our franchise at that time. He was a former great in serious decline.

Quote:

Note also that Allan Houston didn't even cut with the Allan Houston rule.

Because the Knicks are a bunch of idiots. This type of idiocy is part of the reason they need a game-ending-buzzer-beating-37-footer just to avoid a franchise low in points (and only lose by 45 points instead of 48).

Underdog · 12-03-2007, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

He has made a crapload on money on the Mavericks, and he certainly could have spent a little of it to satisfy the lifelong fans. But as it is, he's a little richer (as if he needed it), and we are without two franchise cornerstones. Cuban 2, fans 0.

And lifelong fans don't want to see their team go to the Finals??? That happened under Cuban's watch & I don't feel the least bit ripped off! (and we didn't need Nash, Finely or Nellie to do it...)

mary · 12-03-2007, 02:05 AM

From what I've heard about the new Cowboy stadium, Jerry Jones has the crotches of season ticket holders directly in his crosshairs.

Just sayin'

FINtastic · 12-03-2007, 02:07 AM

Hell he has the crotches of the citizens of Arlington in a vice just so he can build that monument to himself that is the new Cowboys stadium.

chumdawg · 12-03-2007, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

And lifelong fans don't want to see their team go to the Finals??? That happened under Cuban's watch & I don't feel the least bit ripped off! (and we didn't need Nash, Finely or Nellie to do it...)

Do you really believe that the Mavs didn't need Nash, Finley, or Nellie in order to get to that failed Finals appearance that you so cherish? Do you really believe that?

mary · 12-03-2007, 02:09 AM

Jerry Jones would never just up and fire a cornerstone coach of the franchise. He's definitely too classy for that.

Oh wait....

Tom Landry...was he a great big fat person?

Underdog · 12-03-2007, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Do you really believe that the Mavs didn't need Nash, Finley, or Nellie in order to get to that failed Finals appearance that you so cherish? Do you really believe that?

Nash & Nellie (as a coach) have never been to the Finals, so it's stupid to say they could get us there... Finely got his ring on the bench...

Maybe Nash could have out-star-powered Wade in the eyes of Stern's refs, but we didn't need him to get there...