Official Mavs 2020 Draft/Free Agency Thread

[MFFL]

I'm hearing lots of LaVine rumors

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by MFFL

I'm hearing lots of LaVine rumors

The Mavericks are looking all over for a secondary playmaking presence behind Luka Doncic; they’re chasing Indiana’s Victor Oladipo, Brooklyn’s Spencer Dinwiddie, and Chicago’s Zach LaVine. – via nbadraft.theringer.com

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by BPo001

The Mavericks are looking all over for a secondary playmaking presence behind Luka Doncic; they’re chasing Indiana’s Victor Oladipo, Brooklyn’s Spencer Dinwiddie, and Chicago’s Zach LaVine. – via nbadraft.theringer.com

Yuck yuck and yuck. I guess beggars can’t be choosers. Just run it back with Burke or someone of his ilk if you have to give up any assets of consequence for those dudes.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by MFFL

I'm hearing lots of LaVine rumors

Oh... goodie.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Yuck yuck and yuck. I guess beggars can’t be choosers. Just run it back with Burke or someone of his ilk if you have to give up any assets of consequence for those dudes.

Second.

[mac222b]

The more I think about it the less I want an expiring guy for #18. Even if they take Delon. Just pick a good player, don’t overthink it. Unless they have a direct line to Giannis and his camp is saying “clear the decks”

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by mac222b

The more I think about it the less I want an expiring guy for #18. Even if they take Delon. Just pick a good player, don’t overthink it. Unless they have a direct line to Giannis and his camp is saying “clear the decks”

Agreed. Lots of good picks at 18.

[EricaLubarsky]

For the right price I’d definitely prefer to get into that 9-15

I’m not sure there’s a lore more value in 1-8 than 9-15 though.

This one smells like 2013: plenty of solid starters (15+) but the only all star may be 5, 15, or 45.

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

For the right price I’d definitely prefer to get into that 9-15

I’m not sure there’s a lore more value in 1-8 than 9-15 though.

This one smells like 2013: plenty of solid starters (15+) but the only all star may be 5, 15, or 45.

Totally agree, but I'd amend to say 6-14. But yeah, the teams at the tipity top are screwed.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

Totally agree, but I'd amend to say 6-14. But yeah, the teams at the tipity top are screwed.

Indeed. I wouldn’t want any part of Anthony Edwards (the actor or player), Wiseman or Ball. This draft is brimming with DeAndre Hunter, Brandon Clarke, Culver, Cam Johnson types. They were all one draft right? The guys that went higher aren’t the best so far. It could easily be a year where the 22nd picked guy way outperforms #4. Should be fun.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Indeed. I wouldn’t want any part of Anthony Edwards (the actor or player), Wiseman or Ball. This draft is brimming with DeAndre Hunter, Brandon Clarke, Culver, Cam Johnson types. They were all one draft right? The guys that went higher aren’t the best so far. It could easily be a year where the 22nd picked guy way outperforms #4. Should be fun.

Looking at this way, is this the best year ever for a team to have the #18 pick?

All the more reason why I want the Mavs to stand pat and just get the best player they can, and then worry about about making a big move next summer. Unless things go very, very wrong, this is the best draft position the Mavs will have for many years to come.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Looking at this way, is this the best year ever for a team to have the #18 pick?

All the more reason why I want the Mavs to stand pat and just get the best player they can, and then worry about about making a big move next summer. Unless things go very, very wrong, this is the best draft position the Mavs will have for many years to come.

Yes, likely. I’m only slightly exaggerating about the top 3 players. I think, trade value aside— I like Vassell, Deni, Killian, Okongwu, and maybe even Okoro and Williams and Hampton ahead of Ball and Edwards. Wiseman will be good but Centers are devalued if they can’t move laterally and/or shoot. Edwards has tons of talent but lots of talk about him being selfish and not “getting it.” Obviously if a team like GS thinks they can instill those things then it’s a different story. I prefer RJ Hampton to the Ball family circus. At least he’ll defend and has NBA athleticism.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by BPo001

The Mavericks are looking all over for a secondary playmaking presence behind Luka Doncic; they’re chasing Indiana’s Victor Oladipo, Brooklyn’s Spencer Dinwiddie, and Chicago’s Zach LaVine. – via nbadraft.theringer.com

I'll pass on Lavine, I like the player not the fit.

I'll pass on Oladipo after the recent stuff that came out.

I wouldn't hate Dinwiddie or Holiday for that matter depending on the deal but I also prefer making the pick and keeping it.

[tap2390]

I’d pass on Oladipo, Lavine, and Dinwiddie. Overpaying for mediocrity is what kills good teams (like the bucks overpaying for Middleton).

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Looking at this way, is this the best year ever for a team to have the #18 pick?

All the more reason why I want the Mavs to stand pat and just get the best player they can, and then worry about about making a big move next summer. Unless things go very, very wrong, this is the best draft position the Mavs will have for many years to come.

I mean as likely as a 2013 draft where there is one star in the whole draft and 25-30 starters, it could also be the 2017 draft where you get one star (Mitchell) and a bunch of borderline 2nd/3rd stringers.

[KillerLeft]

My take:

Oladipo is not a good basketball player. I actually think this is a likely outcome for the Mavs, given the assets at hand, but I hope it doesn't happen.

Dinwiddie is interesting, and I do think they need a second playmaker (badly) but I don't think he's the guy, due to my suspicion that he can't be very effective off-ball. Saying you want another playmaker means you can't be concerned about some overlap with Luka, but the incoming player needs to ALSO be effective off-ball, and Dinwiddie just doesn't seem like that guy, to me. Could be wrong.

I have trouble believing that LaVine is available for the assets on hand here, but if he were, this one would interest me quite a bit. Second ball-handler/playmaker - check. Dynamic, roster altering athletic ability - check. Ability to neutralize any last 5-minutes defensive attempt to take Luka out of the game - check. An understanding and appreciation of what it's like to carry a franchise, to the point where he'd probably be happy to let Luka do that here and not jealous - check. YOUNGER THAN PORZINGIS - check.

LaVine's defense is a problem. He's much worse than Luka in that department, historically. But, he seems to have the tools to be a plus defender, so I wonder how much of that is due to him having to BE the offense for a team. I wonder if it might not improve here in the role he'd play. Either way, his offense would be RIDICULOUS here as a mostly off-ball player who benefits from Luka's IQ and the space that KP provides.

All in all, I'd pull the trigger on that one, personally. But again, I don't think it's very likely.

[tap2390]

Random prediction for this upcoming season: Hardaway is going to tear shit up. I have him on Instagram and he is working out multiple times a day in Miami (with Cole Anthony, my new draft binkie). Hardaway is really putting in work in the weight room and on the court.

Also, as an aside, every time I went to go watch the Mavs play over the past two years, it was always Hardaway who was most locked in. The guy just loves to ball and brings a competitiveness our team sorely needs. I'm day dreaming about a closing unit of:

Cole Anthony
Hardaway
Luka
DFS
Porzingis

[EricaLubarsky]

Small update: it may make a lot of sense for players with POs to opt-out this year, even if they make less per year in their next contract.

With a huge loss in revenue last year and what looks like another huge hit with a shorter season/no fans in seats, some players may lose up to 50% of their contract's value for 2020-2021 through escrow (they take home 15m of a 30m contract).

In addition, this offseason we are probably going to see a relatively high salary cap because they are propping it up, while next offseason, we may see the cap drop by 20-40% with riders exempting tax-paying teams.

That means that guys like THJ (19m) and WCS (2.3m) may want to opt-out this offseason and re-sign because they're likely to make only half of the 2020-2021 value and may be offered even smaller contracts in free agency next year. They also have longer-term stability as the NBA tries to recover financially.

Doesn't really change our chances of keeping both players-- I think we're likely to retain both if we want them. It just means both are likely to opt-out of their player option, instead of looking for a longer-term deal (potentially even cheaper per year)

[EricaLubarsky]

Sticking this thread. The next week is going to be nuts.

Monday - trades can be finalized
Wednesday - draft
Friday - Free-agency starts

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Sticking this thread.

The next week is going to be nuts.

Monday - trades can be finalized
Wednesday - draft
Friday - Free-agency starts

A welcome relief from the daily covid/election updates. Can't wait.

[BPo001]

Can’t wait for next week. It will be nice to have some new players to read about.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I’d pass on Oladipo, Lavine, and Dinwiddie. Overpaying for mediocrity is what kills good teams (like the bucks overpaying for Middleton).

A few things....

Middleton damn near carried the Bucks while Greek Freak pooped the bed. And we all want Freak here.....

I think Mavs fans have to be realistic about getting Luka help. Realistically...we aren't getting better options than Oladipo and Lavine....we are talking about a 3rd player here....we aren't looking for someone to be a superstar.

The Mavs would be doing themselves a disservice passing up talent because its not A list. If the Mavs had a healthy Oladipo or Lavine in the playoffs last year they would've went to the WCF at the very least.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

My take:

Oladipo is not a good basketball player. I actually think this is a likely outcome for the Mavs, given the assets at hand, but I hope it doesn't happen.

Dinwiddie is interesting, and I do think they need a second playmaker (badly) but I don't think he's the guy, due to my suspicion that he can't be very effective off-ball. Saying you want another playmaker means you can't be concerned about some overlap with Luka, but the incoming player needs to ALSO be effective off-ball, and Dinwiddie just doesn't seem like that guy, to me. Could be wrong.

I have trouble believing that LaVine is available for the assets on hand here, but if he were, this one would interest me quite a bit. Second ball-handler/playmaker - check. Dynamic, roster altering athletic ability - check. Ability to neutralize any last 5-minutes defensive attempt to take Luka out of the game - check. An understanding and appreciation of what it's like to carry a franchise, to the point where he'd probably be happy to let Luka do that here and not jealous - check. YOUNGER THAN PORZINGIS - check.

LaVine's defense is a problem. He's much worse than Luka in that department, historically. But, he seems to have the tools to be a plus defender, so I wonder how much of that is due to him having to BE the offense for a team. I wonder if it might not improve here in the role he'd play. Either way, his offense would be RIDICULOUS here as a mostly off-ball player who benefits from Luka's IQ and the space that KP provides.

All in all, I'd pull the trigger on that one, personally. But again, I don't think it's very likely.

I agree. I like Lavine. I don't really get why the Bulls would get rid of him for the assets we have but if they would.....I'd be all over it.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

A few things....

Middleton damn near carried the Bucks while Greek Freak pooped the bed. And we all want Freak here.....

I think Mavs fans have to be realistic about getting Luka help. Realistically...we aren't getting better options than Oladipo and Lavine....we are talking about a 3rd player here....we aren't looking for someone to be a superstar.

The Mavs would be doing themselves a disservice passing up talent because its not A list. If the Mavs had a healthy Oladipo or Lavine in the playoffs last year they would've went to the WCF at the very least.

All fair points and to some degree I agree with you. I just think that teams that hand out max or near-max contracts to borderline all-star players end up handicapping themselves. Those contracts should be reserved for guys like Luka and Porzingis.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by tap2390

All fair points and to some degree I agree with you. I just think that teams that hand out max or near-max contracts to borderline all-star players end up handicapping themselves. Those contracts should be reserved for guys like Luka and Porzingis.

I actually agree with you there. But I think the mistake is when you hand out those deals without a Luka or Porzingas on your team. You run into a problem when Lavine is the best player on your team. If he's now your 3rd best player? I like our chances.

I do like that taking on Oladipo or Levine isn't long term. I believe they both are up in 2022.

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I actually agree with you there. But I think the mistake is when you hand out those deals without a Luka or Porzingas on your team. You run into a problem when Lavine is the best player on your team. If he's now your 3rd best player? I like our chances.

I do like that taking on Oladipo or Levine isn't long term. I believe they both are up in 2022.

Oladipo is up at the end of this year. To be totally honest, he has been so bad (in two limited spurts) since the injury that the main motivation for that move would be to carve out even more cap space for next season. No joke. That's the motivation there.

LaVine is up in 2022, yes.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

Oladipo is up at the end of this year. To be totally honest, he has been so bad (in two limited spurts) since the injury that the main motivation for that move would be to carve out even more cap space for next season. No joke. That's the motivation there.

LaVine is up in 2022, yes.

Thats even better then but I don't think you trade for Oladipo as just a salary dump.

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Thats even better then but I don't think you trade for Oladipo as just a salary dump.

It would at least be a major factor in why you'd choose him over other options. I mean, they want to remain a playoff team, so if they do that deal they'll obviously hope for the best. And, they'd probably tell him "play well this year, and we'll break you off some of that cap room." But, in the back of their minds, the fact that he's expiring would absolutely be a major factor.

All in all, I'm not feeling it as a use of #18, which is absolutely what Indiana probably wants. Just my opinion.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

A few things....

Middleton damn near carried the Bucks while Greek Freak pooped the bed. And we all want Freak here.....

I think Mavs fans have to be realistic about getting Luka help. Realistically...we aren't getting better options than Oladipo and Lavine....we are talking about a 3rd player here....we aren't looking for someone to be a superstar.

The Mavs would be doing themselves a disservice passing up talent because its not A list. If the Mavs had a healthy Oladipo or Lavine in the playoffs last year they would've went to the WCF at the very least.

Lavine maybe, Oladipo, I don't think so. I'm squarely in the "he's not good anymore" camp. Unless we get him without giving up any real assets, I think we can actually do a lot better.

I don't care how badly he "pooped the bed." I absolutely want Giannis. I think he and Luka would be virtually guaranteed to win multiple championships together. That would be a truly historically great duo. Even if it is a longshot (and I'm honestly not sure it's THAT much of a longshot), I think even a slight chance at Giannis is well worth passing up on someone like Oladipo.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Honestly the closer we get to the draft the more I think the Mavs really will trade the pick. The more I've sat on it the more I'd be ok if it was someone like Lavine. He's young enough that the odds of getting a better player than Lavine at 18 is ridiculously low. He doesn't fix the defense but the more I sit on it- it helps the team more now and doesn't hurt the future in any way if you decide on going after someone else down the road.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Honestly the closer we get to the draft the more I think the Mavs really will trade the pick. The more I've sat on it the more I'd be ok if it was someone like Lavine. He's young enough that the odds of getting a better player than Lavine at 18 is ridiculously low. He doesn't fix the defense but the more I sit on it- it helps the team more now and doesn't hurt the future in any way if you decide on going after someone else down the road.

But we have to match salary so it’d be something like THJ +18+31. Maybe even another future first. LaVine can fill it up. Assume his efficiency would increase here and he buys in on defense. And I like him better than Oladipo and Dinwiddie but he’s also going to cost more in trade.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by mac222b

But we have to match salary so it’d be something like THJ +18+31. Maybe even another future first. LaVine can fill it up. Assume his efficiency would increase here and he buys in on defense. And I like him better than Oladipo and Dinwiddie but he’s also going to cost more in trade.

I don't think the Mavs do it if the other team doesn't value THJ. Mavs always overrate their own guys if anything. THJ is an expiring who can help a contender or be used to clear salary or both and has shown he can be good as a 3rd option. I think if they did trade THJ he should be able to be flipped at the deadline for additional assets. They wanted a 1st for Wes when he was infinitely worse than THJ. So unless they think Lavine is worth 3 picks (essentially what they would view THJ as plus 18 + pseudo 1st 31) then I think they would be looking elsewhere anyway.

Regardless I actually trust the Mavs FO when it comes to trades. We rarely seem to lose trades imo.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I don't think the Mavs do it if the other team doesn't value THJ. Mavs always overrate their own guys if anything. THJ is an expiring who can help a contender or be used to clear salary or both and has shown he can be good as a 3rd option. I think if they did trade THJ he should be able to be flipped at the deadline for additional assets. They wanted a 1st for Wes when he was infinitely worse than THJ. So unless they think Lavine is worth 3 picks (essentially what they would view THJ as plus 18 + pseudo 1st 31) then I think they would be looking elsewhere anyway.

Regardless I actually trust the Mavs FO when it comes to trades. We rarely seem to lose trades imo.

Co-sign all of this. Maybe Chicago fancies Brunson or Delon? The have White too though. But I am definitely against making it rain with first round picks for non-stars of the Beal Or Jrue variety. Unless they think that LaVine as option 2a in our system in a stable franchise is 90% of Beal only hella cheaper. It makes sense on that level. But I agree, we value THJ so adding too many assets to it really starts to tilt me against the idea. Intriguing though in that LaVine can carry the offense while Luka sits. And he’s a floor spacer/secondary ball handler when he plays with Luka. Damn, RC would have fun.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Even if the Mavs would do a deal for Lavine, would Chicago? Do they want to move him for reasons that I'm not aware of? And even if they did, it seems like a lot of other teams could easily outbid the Mavs.

[Thespiralgoeson]

^^ And on that note, all the 'trade for a third star" talk seems kind of silly to me. The Mavs just don't have the assets for a big trade. No combination of #18, #31 and THJ/Seth/Maxi/DFS/Wright/Brunson or anyone else is enough to get a "star." Unless it is indeed Oladipo, and that's only because Indiana might be desperate to get something for him before he becomes a free agent, and there are no other buyers.

If the Mavs do end up trading for Oladipo, I hope they buy very low.

[tap2390]

Call me nuts but I’m not trading THJ for Lavine. THJ fits better with what we’re trying to do, is expiring, and has bought in to being a Maverick.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Even if the Mavs would do a deal for Lavine, would Chicago? Do they want to move him for reasons that I'm not aware of? And even if they did, it seems like a lot of other teams could easily outbid the Mavs.

Bingo. And I've seen some rumors where we'd have to clean house to do it.

Listen, Lavine scores 25 ppg which his a feat no matter the situation, but why would the Bulls do it? People never come to logic with some of this stuff.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Even if the Mavs would do a deal for Lavine, would Chicago? Do they want to move him for reasons that I'm not aware of? And even if they did, it seems like a lot of other teams could easily outbid the Mavs.

I think the only reasons he's talked about in trades is because he reportedly wanted out of Chicago before they got rid of Boylen. No idea if he still wants out or not. And the rumors of Chicago wanting to move up for Ball and have white/ball back court. THJ is a lesser talent on an expiring, maybe they would want to lay the ground for free agency next off season or maybe he's done there and is quietly being shopped or at least looking at testing his value in the event the move him before the deadline for an expiring. I have no idea what Lavine's value is or what other teams would give up for him. I just wouldn't hate it if the Mavs traded for him, because knowing the mavs they would not empty the cupboard for him with how we usually value our own players. If the Mavs did reach out to inquire on Lavine and the Bulls wanted everything then I would bet the Mavs promptly hung up and moved on to other ideas.

[EricaLubarsky]

Why do we want LaVine?

[BPo001]

But opposing teams expect Gallinari to end up on a contender if the Thunder trade Paul. Per sources, some with the Mavericks have interest in pursuing Gallinari. The Mavs reportedly also want to conserve cap space for the summer of 2021. So the franchise would have to weigh that factor in any offers it makes to Gallinari. – via SportsNet New York