PGT: Folding like a Trapper Keeper in NO - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

BGMaverick9 · 03-10-2011, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

These make-shift rosters stick since Butler and Dirk went down, don't they?

But yeah thats an issue. Hopefully Carlisle will figure things out rather sooner than later.

I wasn't considering either because
1) Butler has been long gone
2) Dirk has been back for a while

Tonight, Marion was gone (your starting SF for the night) and your main defensive weapon on the wing.
In the Memphis game, Chandler was not in the lineup and it clearly messed with the bigs because Mahinmi was no match for the big Memphis has to offer.

You could go on to say they didn't have Peja and Roddy in some of those games, but those two I mentioned are the much bigger deal since it involves the defensive end of the floor.

I like Caplan, but mentioning that mins breakdown between Cardinal/Stevenson and Beaubois is pretty silly. Considering Marion went down and Carlisle didn't feel like going to Brewer...it would seem rather obvious that Cardinal and Stevenson can see an major uptick in minutes.

jthig32 · 03-10-2011, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...on-winning-fts

Did JET basically say that it was indeed a foul, but the ref shouldn't have called it because Jack wasn't Kobe or Durant? Maybe I got sth wrong here, but otherwise thats stupid ...

It's an incredibly stupid thing to say.

Underdog · 03-10-2011, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalger

Well, perhaps we could give Carlisle the benefit of the doubt and say that he's really trying A LOT of different rotations to find out which one is the best. That said, we'll have to find a set rotation and stick with it at some point, preferably sooner than later.

Yep, that's what the regular season is all about.

And that's also why this board would be a lot more tolerable right now if the people who don't care about the regular season would take a hike until the playoffs roll around...

This is basketball. NBA basketball, not that video game crap. Losses happen, especially in the regular season - every team in the NBA has to deal with it, even the guys who eventually hoist the Larry O'Brien Trophy over their heads at the end of the season.

Kobe made this statement earlier today in reference to the struggling Miami Heat, but it definitely applies to the Mavs as well:

Quote:

"Every team has issues. At this point of the season, if you don't have issues you're not a team."

jthig32 · 03-10-2011, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I wasn't considering either because
1) Butler has been long gone
2) Dirk has been back for a while

Tonight, Marion was gone (your starting SF for the night) and your main defensive weapon on the wing.
In the Memphis game, Chandler was not in the lineup and it clearly messed with the bigs because Mahinmi was no match for the big Memphis has to offer.

You could go on to say they didn't have Peja and Roddy in some of those games, but those two I mentioned are the much bigger deal since it involves the defensive end of the floor.

I like Caplan, but mentioning that mins breakdown between Cardinal/Stevenson and Beaubois is pretty silly. Considering Marion went down and Carlisle didn't feel like going to Brewer...it would seem rather obvious that Cardinal and Stevenson can see an major uptick in minutes.

But what were Stevenson and Cardinal giving you at SF? They're guarding non-scorers and not rebounding. Why not play a three guard lineup and get JJB and Roddy more minutes?

I don't see any justification for the lineup decisions tonight. Stevenson was an absolute zero, and Cardinal wasn't rebounding. Play someone that will contribute in at least one major area.

j0Shi · 03-10-2011, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

So Dirk goes for 26/4/3 on 10-18 shooting with a +2, yet all I'm hearing is how he lost the game and David West was in his head because of ONE turnover? Wow, just wow. Got to love this board. Yes, it was a horrible turnover, but without Dirk we aren't even in the game. The bigger issue is Mr. Ason Kidd.

0-7, nothing new. But hey, he had 7 assists and 0 turnovers, so it's all good. Coming into tonight Ason is shooting 37% from the field and 36% from three. It makes it REALLY difficult to win, especially in the playoffs, when your starting PG is probably the most inept scoring starter in the NBA.

He wasn't even looking for a shot on that possession. He was in passing mood the whole time. He does that more frequently this season and if it results in good ball movement and a better shot ... I'm fine. If it results in a turnover in crunch time ... I'm not.

BGMaverick9 · 03-10-2011, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

But what were Stevenson and Cardinal giving you at SF? They're guarding non-scorers and not rebounding. Why not play a three guard lineup and get JJB and Roddy more minutes?

I don't see any justification for the lineup decisions tonight. Stevenson was an absolute zero, and Cardinal wasn't rebounding. Play someone that will contribute in at least one major area.

It's a big issues for the lack of rebounds but other than that, I didn't have a major problem with the minutes Cardinal got. The minutes were probably too high but I could live with them. Cardinal contributed with two vital charges taken and he hit a three in the fourth quarter. Stevenson would be the guy I would be more concerned with tonight. Comparing the two, I see Cardinal bringing much more than Stevenson did.

The only reason I can remotely think the 3GL didn't see more time is because guys like Ariza, Landry and Belinelli saw a lot of minutes. I honestly can't remember if Landry played much at the 3 but that would have been an issue.

j0Shi · 03-10-2011, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I wasn't considering either because
1) Butler has been long gone
2) Dirk has been back for a while

Tonight, Marion was gone (your starting SF for the night) and your main defensive weapon on the wing.
In the Memphis game, Chandler was not in the lineup and it clearly messed with the bigs because Mahinmi was no match for the big Memphis has to offer.

You could go on to say they didn't have Peja and Roddy in some of those games, but those two I mentioned are the much bigger deal since it involves the defensive end of the floor.

I like Caplan, but mentioning that mins breakdown between Cardinal/Stevenson and Beaubois is pretty silly. Considering Marion went down and Carlisle didn't feel like going to Brewer...it would seem rather obvious that Cardinal and Stevenson can see an major uptick in minutes.

In my eyes there is no reason to play Stevenson at the 3 any longer even considering that Brewer isn't around that long. Cardinal moved to the backup 4 spot today because Marion was out, I am fine with that. Its not even about Roddy but I can't get over that fact that Carlisle chose D-Steve over Brewer.

BGMaverick9 · 03-10-2011, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

In my eyes there is no reason to play Stevenson at the 3 any longer even considering that Brewer isn't around that long. Cardinal moved to the backup 4 spot today because Marion was out, I am fine with that. Its not even about Roddy but I can't get over that fact that Carlisle chose D-Steve over Brewer.

I agree with the confusion with Stevenson over Brewer.

Another frustrating part of the game is the free throw percentage. They missed eight free throws. Even if Chandler makes one of two, then you're still up three and can still have some control even if stuff hits the fan on the next possession.

They really did just about everything you could to lose the game.

dalger · 03-10-2011, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Did JET basically say that it was indeed a foul, but the ref shouldn't have called it because Jack wasn't Kobe or Durant? Maybe I got sth wrong here, but otherwise thats stupid ...

I think he meant that it wasn't a foul or only the kind of foul that's called when superstars like Durant or Kobe are involved, not Jack. That's why the term "superstar call" was coined. Certain players constantly get the benefit of the doubt because of their status, Jack's not one of them. He was the exception to the rule today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yep, that's what the regular season is all about.

And that's also why this board would be a lot more tolerable right now if the people who don't care about the regular season would take a hike until the playoffs roll around...

The odd thing is that tonight's lineup didn't look like one with the playoffs in mind. We know who Cardinal and Stevenson are. We know what they can and can't do. And what they can do at the 3 may not be enough to make a "run for the roses." That's why I would have expected Brewer to play. He's said to be a good defender, tall, athletic and definitely a better rebounder than either Stevenson or Cardinal. Why didn't we try him as a starter or at all in light of Peja and Marion's injuries to see if he could be better than Stevenson or Cardinal? If he was too raw to be of help this season, we would still be able to go back to either Peja, Stevenson or Cardinal.

Like I said, I tend to give Carlisle the benefit of the doubt. Tonight's game was strange in terms of rotations, though.

LonghornDub · 03-10-2011, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalger

Like I said, I tend to give Carlisle the benefit of the doubt. Tonight's game was strange in terms of rotations, though.

Same boat. It takes a lot to get me to question rotations or lineups, but he had me doing it tonight. Some incredibly strange decisions by the ol' ball coach tonight.

Underdog · 03-10-2011, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Same boat. It takes a lot to get me to question rotations or lineups, but he had me doing it tonight. Some incredibly strange decisions by the ol' ball coach tonight.

Yep, I usually don't fault Carlisle because the results speak for themselves, but I hope tonight was a learning experience on what NOT to do in the playoffs (regardless of our injury situation...)

dalger · 03-10-2011, 01:53 AM

Carlisle's undoubtedly a good coach and the fans of roughly 25 NBA teams would love to be able to bitch about his rotations instead of their current coach's rotations. In addition, finding the right rotations was Carlisle's strong point at the beginning of the season, when he decided to start Chandler, Butler and Stevenson, bring Jet and Marion off the bench and give Dirk an early rest to have him start the 2nd quarter alongside JJB. It worked like a charm until Caron's unfortunate injury.

I still believe that a combination of Roddy/Brewer in the starting lineup could be the closest thing to what we saw until January. Let Roddy replace Butler on offense and hope that Brewer can deliver the kind of strong defense and occasional offense that Stevenson provided. It may just work out. Then again, Caron's injury hurts a great deal and it's unreasonable to assume that we can be as good a team without him than with him. It's all about finding something that's not too far away from where we were with Butler.

The one concern I have is that Carlisle may be too stubborn or cautious to give two young players like Roddy and Brewer an extended try. There are certainly reasons to be skeptical and mistakes are more than likely to occur, yet the veteran alternatives we have at the small forward spot aren't promising either. I think it's worth a try and, as already said, we could always go back to our veterans.

nowhereman · 03-10-2011, 02:01 AM

I caused $200 worth of damage in my apartment because of this loss. Where should I send the bill?

fluid.forty.one · 03-10-2011, 02:12 AM

easy loss

clutch#41 · 03-10-2011, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...on-winning-fts

Did JET basically say that it was indeed a foul, but the ref shouldn't have called it because Jack wasn't Kobe or Durant? Maybe I got sth wrong here, but otherwise thats stupid ...

another bonehead comment from jet, when did he turn into T.O???

mac222b · 03-10-2011, 04:14 AM

It was clearly a foul. Kidd moved his hand forward and into Jack's arm.

Budapest Maverick · 03-10-2011, 04:18 AM

And if it was a foul, it was 10 times dumber than Dirk's turnover. Kidd fouled a 27% 3 point shooter. This loss just pissing me off so much for some reason. I don't know if it's West, or because the Lakers are creeping on us, or the fact that we can see those signs again, that we hate see on our team... Probably the combination those things. Two big games coming up, that's the good thing about the NBA. Let's win them.

mavs777 · 03-10-2011, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

It was clearly a foul. Kidd moved his hand forward and into Jack's arm.

Your first sentence is right, it is clearly a foul by rule but kidd didn't move his hand into Jack's arm Jack swung the ball and his arms under Kidds arms and then swung them up which consequently went into his hands, that is what made it a foul

mac222b · 03-10-2011, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Your first sentence is right, it is clearly a foul by rule but kidd didn't move his hand into Jack's arm Jack swung the ball and his arms under Kidds arms and then swung them up which consequently went into his hands, that is what made it a foul

when they showed it in replay slow-mo i saw Kidd move his hand forward into Jack's. no one hates that wack ass "up and under" crap more than me. that isn't exactly what this was. Kidd reached.

JeffViggiano · 03-10-2011, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

this is just a cursed lost, for somereason the gods say Dallas can't win in NO

carlisle say dallas can't win in NO.

ridicolus coach,he never read the game.fuckin idiot.

stevensson/cardinal 20 minutes and brewer DNP.incredible.

kidd 0/7.he MUST play 40minutes anyway.

probably we have lost the 2nd seed.good.

i don't want write about roddy.it's no sense.

deamon · 03-10-2011, 06:37 AM

It was sucker lost. Blame Dirk, Chandler, Kidd and Carlisle.
Just one month till PO and Mavs looks so poor, when LAL are the best after ASG. We looked much better in November/December. Really miss Butler right now, if he won't play in PO, just kill Cuban.

mac222b · 03-10-2011, 07:06 AM

So i wonder if we start to see more of Roddy after this loss... maybe Rick gets a memo from Cubes to play the kid?

Ninkobei · 03-10-2011, 07:51 AM

water under the bridge. no knee jerking. I'd rather the mavs have a bad game now when they can still do soemthing to improve themselves than a few weeks down the road. Besides, winning too many games easily can cause the "Paradise effect" - IE: We're good we dont need to try harder. Now they know they need to work at parts of their game.

Bayliss · 03-10-2011, 07:54 AM

Oh and Dirk will never be a rebounder anymore. Those days are over. He has officially become Bargnani and Chambers on the boards. Since his knee injury Dirk is averaging 5.6 rebound per game. He will be lucky to average 7 rebounds in the playoffs.

Bayliss · 03-10-2011, 07:58 AM

Nik, I do agree that the Mavs need this now rather than later. But it is the same old flaws with the Mavs that always resurface. If they get hit, they won't retaliate. If they get scrared they shut down. They won't penetrate and get to the line. They won't rebound/defend because that is beneath them. And they trot out the same "old" players every time.

Ninkobei · 03-10-2011, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Nik, I do agree that the Mavs need this now rather than later. But it is the same old flaws with the Mavs that always resurface. If they get hit, they won't retaliate. If they get scrared they shut down. They won't penetrate and get to the line. They won't rebound/defend because that is beneath them. And they trot out the same "old" players every time.

If you look at each game as a learning process, I think what happened is a good thing. They realize that not fighting back can cost the game. As silly as this sounds, it is kind of like negative reinforcement training. Learn from mistakes. I believe this loss wont cause the mavs to spiral into depression, but will fuel their fire for Friday's game vs the (MUCH) better Lakers.

rabbitproof · 03-10-2011, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deamon

It was sucker lost. Blame Dirk, Chandler, Kidd and Carlisle.
Just one month till PO and Mavs looks so poor, when LAL are the best after ASG. We looked much better in November/December. Really miss Butler right now, if he won't play in PO, just kill Cuban.

How is this Cuban's fault?

Bayliss · 03-10-2011, 08:18 AM

Quote:

How is this Cuban's fault?

Because he said Roddy was untouchable. Roddy could have been used for Melo. Melo would have hit the game winner against NO. Ergo it is all Cuban's fault.

Ninkobei · 03-10-2011, 08:45 AM

whats with all the Crying, people? Swear to god this thread is turning into a 16 year old girl's diary about her crush. Get over it, losses happen. Holy crap.

You wanna talk about Soft? Talk about the Mavs fans in this thread. Seriously.

Thomas86 · 03-10-2011, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

How is this Cuban's fault?

Let's not forget that Dirk agreed to take less money to come back to the Mavs so Cuban could get Dirk some help but what has Cuban done?...

Rick41 · 03-10-2011, 08:50 AM

This is turning into Cuban's fault?

Jesus Christ...

cowdog80 · 03-10-2011, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutch#41

you just dont understand the dynamics that roddy can bring to the mavs and release so much pressure off of dirk and terry in the 4th. zone d with chandler in the middle and a 3 guard lineup, we would be pretty sick. but carlisle is a genius and the mavs are unstoppable already so why change anything.

the zone D is a gimmick that works great as a change of pace - but not something that you want to bank on for consistent crunch time stops. also highly questionable how effective it will be in a playoff series after opponents see it a couple games in a row.

Underdog · 03-10-2011, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas86

Let's not forget that Dirk agreed to take less money to come back to the Mavs so Cuban could get Dirk some help but what has Cuban done?...

Ummm, take a look at your sig...

Where do you think that money Dirk left on the table is going??

cowdog80 · 03-10-2011, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas86

Let's not forget that Dirk agreed to take less money to come back to the Mavs so Cuban could get Dirk some help but what has Cuban done?...

it wasn't like dirk took $2M so that the team could sign another near max player. Cuban is still well over the cap and luxury tax. who was available that could have been signed outright or traded for the team's spare parts (this trade deadline basically showed that, unlike many years past, sellers weren't as willing to trade their franchise talent for pennies on the dollar) that covers this team's flaws? maybe gerald wallace, although he wouldn't drastically alter this group's chances and his contract could have handcuffed the franchise (and possibly cost the team Chandler) next offseason with a possible (likely?) hard cap on the way.

Bayliss · 03-10-2011, 09:39 AM

Mavs play the Hornets the last game of the year. That game may be the determining game in where the seedings go.

rabbitproof · 03-10-2011, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Because he said Roddy was untouchable. Roddy could have been used for Melo. Melo would have hit the game winner against NO. Ergo it is all Cuban's fault.

You're joking, right??? RIGHT????

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas86

Let's not forget that Dirk agreed to take less money to come back to the Mavs so Cuban could get Dirk some help but what has Cuban done?...

He resigned Haywood, bought a pick and drafted Dominque Jones, added Chandler, added Peja and added Brewer. What else would you have him do when they are past the LT line? Buy the Hornets and merge the clubs?

41mvp · 03-10-2011, 10:34 AM

we played like losers and we lost like losers!!!
That's all!!!

Bayliss · 03-10-2011, 10:58 AM

Quote:

You're joking, right??? RIGHT????

I thought the smily would give it away.

rabbitproof · 03-10-2011, 11:06 AM

It looked like a smug smiley but ok.

rabbitproof · 03-10-2011, 11:55 AM

Rick putting the team on blast.

"soft"