2021-2022 Preseason and camp thread

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by JustJay

I'd be happy to see your list.

In no particular order.

Conley
Lowry
Derozan
O Porter
Holmes
Oladipo
Dragic
Fournier
Shroeder
Danny Green
Barton
Dinwiddie
Norm Powell
Lou Will
Ball
J. Green
Noel
Portis
Caruso
Batum
Howard

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

In no particular order.

Y Conley
Y Lowry
Y Derozan
Y O Porter
Y Holmes
N Oladipo
Y Dragic
N Fournier
N Shroeder
N Danny Green
Y Barton
Y Dinwiddie
Y Norm Powell
N Lou Will
Y Ball
J. Green
Y Noel
Y Portis
N Caruso
N Batum
Howard

Like most of these

[JustJay]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

In no particular order.

Conley
Lowry
Derozan
O Porter
Holmes
Oladipo
Dragic
Fournier
Shroeder
Danny Green
Barton
Dinwiddie
Norm Powell
Lou Will
Ball
J. Green
Noel
Portis
Caruso
Batum
Howard

I thought you meant almost star level only, like debating between paying Lowry or someone else. You're putting guys like Noel Batum and Howard I can't see how they move the needle in our favor but they're more complimentary I would think, those guys should only demand like the MLE. Like if we could get say Lowry and one of those guys, I'd say that's a decent free agency. But if we only get Batum for example, you think we're significantly better than last year? I do not.

Its just one name but I don't know how you could put Shroeder on that list. He chucked his way out of L.A. taking too many shots trying to pad his stats so he could get paid, thought he was a star and said he would be starting with him and Lebron back court. You want someone like that on this team? I mean if he was cheap sure I'd take a shot but he wants a big contract.

Dinwiddle and Oladipo are coming off serious injuries. Do we want to go down the Wes Matthews road again?

Dragic has a team option. He seems to be liked in Miami so I wouldn't even say it's a lock he'll be available.

I stand by what I said that there's about 8 besides Kawhi and Paul that significantly move the needle in our favor.

Derozan
Lowry
Conley
Fournier
Barton
Ball
Portis
Powell
O Porter

So I came up with 9. I can also see Fournier staying in Boston because Kemba got traded so he might get a bigger role there, Ball is restricted but it doesn't look like New Orleans will match but inevitably some will stay on their current teams. I still say there's no lock we improve a whole lot this summer. We should all know by now we're no destination team.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by JustJay

I thought you meant almost star level only, like debating between paying Lowry or someone else. You're putting guys like Batum and Howard I can't see how they move the needle in our favor, those guys should only demand like the MLE I would think. The Mavs want Lowry over everyone of them so if they get their way you'll be disappointed lol.

I won't be disappointed at all. I realllly like Lowry. Wouldn't prefer to go 3/30 without a TO on 3rd yr though. I like Derozan better.

Point is. Look at our roster around Luka bro. It lacks serious depth. Powell, Maxi, Jrich, WCS, Melli, Reddick, Boban. That fodder is our rotation. We can't be snubbing guys on that list because they aren't stars. We need one high level player and should use these other types to bolster the rotation.

J Green, Howard, Portis, Batum for example all jump ahead of our current guys as upgraded front court rotation. Same goes for wings.

Many people look at stars, 1st and 2nd tier guys but then throw their hands up at realistic rotation help and then wonder why we rely so heavily on Maxi, Powell, Boban, Burke, etc.

[SMC0007]

JAY I totally agree with you that we need one starting guy otherwise these other moves don't give us a good FA grade. In fact, far as I'm concerned Derozan and Lowry are the only one s that single handedly move my needle.

Sure if you get Fournier or N. Powell and a cpl others it could be decent offseason but imo the key is get one of Lowry, Derozan and at least one other rotation addition. Throw in Howard or Noel and it would be really good.

[SMC0007]

.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I saw a rumor about getting Conley and taking on Bojan's conract. Yes please. We need to add as much talent as possible.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

.

[JustJay]

Sorry I thought I read that you said you didn't want Lowry, my mistake.

I agree if we can get Lowry or Derozan alone that'd be solid (especially Derozan) and add one of those other guys that'd be a good free agency. We'll just have to see how it works out.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Idk how we can get Lowry and THJ considering what each will be getting contract wise. I guess a SnT could be done but it would require us giving a pick I think and I'm against giving a future 1 even with protections for a 35yr old pg. If it's a SnT that requires 3 years I think? So a 38yr old pg and losing a 1st... Hard pass from me under those circumstances.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Idk how we can get Lowry and THJ considering what each will be getting contract wise. I guess a SnT could be done but it would require us giving a pick I think and I'm against giving a future 1 even with protections for a 35yr old pg. If it's a SnT that requires 3 years I think? So a 38yr old pg and losing a 1st... Hard pass from me under those circumstances.

I agree with you on that.

Fwiw. This dude is pretty decent with CBA and cap stuff. You may already follow but this pertains to the topic. Fake salary table for the potential Lowry/ batum move.

https://twitter.com/CBAMavs/status/1...237982728?s=19

[JustJay]

That's true I'm afraid prioritizing THJ will make it end up with us having the same team practically.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I agree with you on that.

Fwiw. This dude is pretty decent with CBA and cap stuff. You may already follow but this pertains to the topic. Fake salary table for the potential Lowry/ batum move.

https://twitter.com/CBAMavs/status/1...237982728?s=19

I like that we lose Powell and JRich in that but losing 2 assets in a 1st and Brunson just doesn't do much for me when the return is a 35yr old pg making 30m a yr. I feel like Lowry is being elevated due to the lack of upper talent in FA.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Idk how we can get Lowry and THJ considering what each will be getting contract wise. I guess a SnT could be done but it would require us giving a pick I think and I'm against giving a future 1 even with protections for a 35yr old pg. If it's a SnT that requires 3 years I think? So a 38yr old pg and losing a 1st... Hard pass from me under those circumstances.

And he wants 30 million a year.

I'm just not crazy about it. Subjectively, I'm not a huge Lowry fan.

It sucks because all of this surrounds keeping THJ which I feel a lot of us think that is a mistake.

[JustJay]

Is 35 year old Lowry better than 33 year old Conley?

I miss the days of guys in their mid 30s playing for the MLE. Now they get 25-30 mil.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by JustJay

Is 35 year old Lowry better than 33 year old Conley?

I miss the days of guys in their mid 30s playing for the MLE. Now they get 25-30 mil.

Injuries aside I pick Conley personally 10 times out of 10. Conley has had some small injuries I think though that maybe could worry some with his age getting up there?

[JustJay]

The funny thing is Lowry was sort of injury prone early in his career but stayed pretty healthy in Toronto. But would that trend continue into his late 30s? Who knows.

[SMC0007]

The benefit of keeping THJ is that then we would be able to use the MLE. Not sure there is another way we get the MLE. Which we could use on any number of guys like Batum, Noel etc.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by JustJay

Is 35 year old Lowry better than 33 year old Conley?

I miss the days of guys in their mid 30s playing for the MLE. Now they get 25-30 mil.

Yes, Lowry is better. Definitely a better defender too and he's got more grit and heady situational baller. He brings intangible things that leads to wins and it would teach Luka a lot of things that he doesn't already know. His influence puts him in a higher category. That's not taking anything away from Conley who would also be a good addition.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

The benefit of keeping THJ is that then we would be able to use the MLE. Not sure there is another way we get the MLE. Which we could use on any number of guys like Batum, Noel etc.

K so then how are we getting Lowry?

[BPo001]

Joseph Hoyt: Mavericks head coach Jason Kidd confirms that Igor Kokoskov is on his way to join the Dallas coaching staff. Kidd said Kokoskov, a former coach of Mavs star Luka Doncic, will be a great coaching teammate. Said he’s in that offensive genius category of coaching.

And in front-office news, after it was heavily rumored that Dallas was targeting a CBA-minded lieutenant to join new president of basketball operations Nico Harrison, the Mavericks have hired Brooklyn Nets official Andrew Baker, a respected salary-cap strategist, for a senior role in Dallas’ new front office, sources said.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

K so then how are we getting Lowry?

Various scenarios have been floated around. In theory along these lines. Again I'm not advocating to do this.

- Re-sign THJ 4/80
- SnT for Lowry (3/90) starting at 28.57 million. Sending Brunson, JRich, Powell, & 2025 1st
- Keep WCS at team option
- Sign Batum Full MLE 4/45

If necessary, I believe we can go above cap in signing our own.

[JustJay]

I hope there's some posturing going on, where MBT is just wanting THJ to think we're prioritizing him, but yet they don't make an offer at first. They let things play out and if everything falls though (Lowry, Derozan) then they give THJ market value. This would be the correct way to handle it IMO.

[JustJay]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Various scenarios have been floated around. In theory along these lines. Again I'm not advocating to do this.

- Re-sign THJ 4/80
- SnT for Lowry (3/90) starting at 28.57 million. Sending Brunson, JRich, Powell, & 2025 1st
- Keep WCS at team option
- Sign Batum Full MLE 4/45

If necessary, I believe we can go above cap in signing our own.

In 2025 when Lowry is 38 years old and his contract just expired you don't think we'd heavily regret giving that 1st?

I would rather know there's going to be a day where we start building through the draft again. We've sacrified too many 1sts during the whole plan powder fiasco then KP (which was understandable) but at some point you have to use the draft to get good unless you're the Lakers.

If KP was never on our team and he came here as a free agent this summer, we'd probably be thrilled. Yes he underperformed last playoffs and he's often injured but I think he deserves another chance with Kidd.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by JustJay

In 2025 when Lowry is 38 years old and his contract just expired you don't think we'd heavily regret giving that 1st?

I would rather know there's going to be a day where we start building through the draft again. We've sacrified too many 1sts during the whole plan powder fiasco then KP (which was understandable) but at some point you have to use the draft to get good unless you're the Lakers.

Yea, better yet He will be 39 when he's fake deal expires.

Fwiw, going forward I don't think our 1st round picks will be very high.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by JustJay

I hope there's some posturing going on, where MBT is just wanting THJ to think we're prioritizing him, but yet they don't make an offer at first. They let things play out and if everything falls though (Lowry, Derozan) then they give THJ market value. This would be the correct way to handle it IMO.

The problem with that is market value for THJ is probably 20m or so. If we do that and have nothing else to show for the offseason. Boyyyyy riots in Dallas.

[JustJay]

I don't think the over the cap thing matters because THJ's cap hold from what I read is $28.4 million. So we can't sign anyone until we release that and if we release it then we can't over the cap with him that's how cap holds work at least I think. We can't just use all our space on Lowry then sign THJ over the cap from my understanding, which is not on expertise level. I'm no Nico. but...

$28.4 million
There is also the element that Hardaway Jr. has a cap hold of $28.4 million that would need to be dealt with prior to making any other moves.1 day ago

So we would have to operate signing free agents through trades if we want to be an over the cap team and keep our MLE. Ideally we could trade Richardson + Powell + 2nd rounder to a team that's going to lose that player anyway, say Toronto for Lowry or Utah for Conley. Bad thing is we have to wait until Richardson agrees to his player option. It's all complicated.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by JustJay

In 2025 when Lowry is 38 years old and his contract just expired you don't think we'd heavily regret giving that 1st?

I would rather know there's going to be a day where we start building through the draft again. We've sacrified too many 1sts during the whole plan powder fiasco then KP (which was understandable) but at some point you have to use the draft to get good unless you're the Lakers.

If KP was never on our team and he came here as a free agent this summer, we'd probably be thrilled. Yes he underperformed last playoffs and he's often injured but I think he deserves another chance with Kidd.

We'll most likely be in the same boat with Luka as we were with Dirk so the draft won't be our most promising way to build for the next decade or so. I can see perpetuating near, or above 50 wins every season while Luka is here.

I'm not crazy about giving Lowry 3/90 but if they can somehow work it out to sign him, keep THJ, and sign Batum or Noel I think I could live with it.
I'd rather it be Burk/Green/JRich/Powell/2025 #1 for Lowry because I'd rather them have Brunson available for another deal to upgrade the PF position.

[JustJay]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

We'll most likely be in the same boat with Luka as we were with Dirk so the draft won't be our most promising way to build for the next decade or so. I can see perpetuating near, or above 50 wins every season while Luka is here.

I'm not crazy about giving Lowry 3/90 but if they can somehow work it out to sign him, keep THJ, and sign Batum or Noel I think I could live with it.
I'd rather it be Burk/Green/JRich/Powell/2025 #1 for Lowry because I'd rather them have Brunson available for another deal to upgrade the PF position.

We did get Josh Howard with Dirk who looked like a star for a little while, same for Roddy B he looked really good for a short time and Marquis Daniels did too. Spurs got Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili after they already had Tim Duncan. You just have to be good at drafting.

I think for the right trade you give up first, for Lowry eh I'm not doing that unless he was the missing piece for a championship, and he isn't.

Just as important or more important than drafting is if the right trade comes along and we're getting the better player you usually have to have 1st round picks to add to it or the team will trade that player elsewhere. I'm talking about a better situation than Lowry. Free agency hasn't exactly been a great way to build for us either hardly ever.

[SMC0007]

Fwiw, Kyle Lowry had some incredible games last season and he damn sure didn't have a Luka to play with. I don't think he's noticeably slowing down next season or two barring injury. Father time will catch him at some point though. That 3rd year is concerning but other teams will offer it so we will have to as well if we want him.

[BigDog63]

Originally Posted by JustJay

In 2025 when Lowry is 38 years old and his contract just expired you don't think we'd heavily regret giving that 1st?

That depends on whether we figure out how to use draft picks. Outside of Luka, I think you'd have to go back to...Josh Howard and Devin Harris to find any first round players of note that we drafted.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Joseph Hoyt: Mavericks head coach Jason Kidd confirms that Igor Kokoskov is on his way to join the Dallas coaching staff. Kidd said Kokoskov, a former coach of Mavs star Luka Doncic, will be a great coaching teammate. Said he’s in that offensive genius category of coaching.

And in front-office news, after it was heavily rumored that Dallas was targeting a CBA-minded lieutenant to join new president of basketball operations Nico Harrison, the Mavericks have hired Brooklyn Nets official Andrew Baker, a respected salary-cap strategist, for a senior role in Dallas’ new front office, sources said.

The two best hires imo

[JustJay]

Originally Posted by BigDog63

That depends on whether we figure out how to use draft picks. Outside of Luka, I think you'd have to go back to...Josh Howard and Devin Harris to find any first round players of note that we drafted.

We only had 6 first round picks that we actually made last decade because of the whole Plan Powder bs, and some of those were after trading down to save cap space. So not taking the draft serious obvious didn't work. The only reason we got Luka is because we were that terrible the year before and had nobody.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Joseph Hoyt: Mavericks head coach Jason Kidd confirms that Igor Kokoskov is on his way to join the Dallas coaching staff. Kidd said Kokoskov, a former coach of Mavs star Luka Doncic, will be a great coaching teammate. Said he’s in that offensive genius category of coaching.

And in front-office news, after it was heavily rumored that Dallas was targeting a CBA-minded lieutenant to join new president of basketball operations Nico Harrison, the Mavericks have hired Brooklyn Nets official Andrew Baker, a respected salary-cap strategist, for a senior role in Dallas’ new front office, sources said.

That Sportsology dude is teaching Cuban how it's done.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Fwiw, Kyle Lowry had some incredible games last season and he damn sure didn't have a Luka to play with. I don't think he's noticeably slowing down next season or two barring injury. Father time will catch him at some point though. That 3rd year is concerning but other teams will offer it so we will have to as well if we want him.

He didn’t have a Luka but he plays for a stacked team….not sure what happened to the Raptors they lost Kawhi for nothing and still had a good roster.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

He didn’t have a Luka but he plays for a stacked team….not sure what happened to the Raptors they lost Kawhi for nothing and still had a good roster.

I think they had a lot of injuries and some covid -out guys right?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

That Sportsology dude is teaching Cuban how it's done.

Yea as reluctant as I am to believe he gave sportsology his full attention, these moves don't exactly seem like Cuban led moves.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I think they had a lot of injuries and some covid -out guys right?

Well I sort of assumed that but then they traded Powell for Gary Trent....which I guess if they didn't want to get in the bidding game for Powell...you take what you can but it was like they gave up on their season at that point and they were also in talks to trade Lowry to I believe the Sixers at that point.

Just seemed odd...this team is not that far removed from their championship even if it was with Leonard.

I also thought Siakam would've taken another step forward......

[sig]

Could you trade KP and Maxi and DFS for Lowery and OGA. DFS and Maxi are favorites but they are gong into their last year of the deal. They were also built up by RC so maybe the new staff doesn't have the same connection to them. I think Luka likes DFS though. If Lowery and DeRozan want to play together then maybe after renouncing THJ you can add DeRozan. Brunson can be trade fodder to get a big. He is also a favorite of RC so maybe a deal to get Turner somehow.

Can the Mavs S&T Brunson with bigger contract they don't exercise the option on his final year to help match Turner's salary?

Can the Brunson S&T happen after do the Lowry/DeRozan deals?

Would Toronto take powell instead of Maxi who might fit the Pacer better in a Brunson/Maxi trade for Turner?

Are last years rookies ready to take the next step to play bench minutes to replace RC's favorites. IMO, the group has a lot of potential to bring a lot of energy to the rotation and RC is limited in how much he trusted playing them or any other rookie other than Luka or DSJ. They were tanking and trying to turn DSJ into a star and well Luka is Luka.

1. Bey for Maxi and DFS
2. Hinton, Green for DFS, THJ, Richardson
3. Terry for Brunson but if Lowery and DeRozan is added the need to rush him is not so severe and you might still have Burke.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by JustJay

... We should all know by now we're no destination team.

I disagree with this sentiment. Whereas that may have been the case in the past, arguably to Dirk's age and/or non-elbow rubbing, I think having a young superstar like Luka changes things up drastically. Now, it's still Dallas vs. NY, LA, Miami, etc. as far as a "destination" but I do not think the Mavericks with Luka Doncic fits this narrative, at least currently.