02-10-2010, 09:40 AM
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#41
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,048
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Yeah RC has been doing well, aside from the Robo situation. He's definitely not the issue with this team.
__________________
''Nowitzki'' is a German word that, translated, means, ''Good Lord, doesn't this guy ever miss?''
-Miami paper on Dirk Nowitzki
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02-10-2010, 09:44 AM
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#42
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
I just remember Nellie just insulted the team to the media at every opportunity. Maybe it was a motivational tool, but saying "we just arent a good team" and "we just dont have that much talent" over and over seemed to get a lot of people riled up.
Instead we get a coach thats trying to be optimistic despite having a team crumbling away in front of his eyes and I think he's being pretty politic despite it all. He knows we arent going anywhere but its not a coach's duty to publicly come out and say "yeah we need to trade Josh and get 'Gasoled'".
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Herein lies the lose-lose situation. Carlisle is too scared to call his team out in public, because he thinks his team would actually be offended. But, if they have already tuned him out, then his strategy is useless because he is making NO comments (for PC reasons), instead of at least attempting to make SOME comments (which will probably fall on deaf ears anyway).
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02-10-2010, 10:26 AM
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#43
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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I see a lot of people in this thread screaming for Carlisle's head, but not ONE person has suggested who the hell we're gonna replace him with...
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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02-10-2010, 10:28 AM
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#44
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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I can't deny that I'm becoming concerned about Carlisle and his relationship with the locker room.
But please don't push the notion that Carlisle needs to be fired over any sort of in game performances. He's one of the best tacticians in the league. I'm certainly not 100% happy with his decisions, but that's never going to happen. Go read Spurstalk and see how often they crucify Pop for decisions.
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02-10-2010, 10:45 AM
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#45
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,086
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The Mavs already replaced the coach and that didn't change the same issue which has been plaguing this team for years which is not having a worthy two guard. (at least one with some fricken size)
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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02-10-2010, 10:46 AM
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#46
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basketball fan nirvana
Posts: 5,625
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It ain't the coach, it's the roster.
__________________
"It does not take a brain seargant to know the reason this team struggles." -- dmack24
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02-10-2010, 10:53 AM
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#47
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Basketball fan nirvana
Posts: 5,625
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A nicely designed natural experiment:
Win Percentages....
2007-2008 = 62.2%
2008-2010 = 61.2%
Whatever variables changed from the 2007-2008 seasons...those variables didn't have any significant impact on wins and losses.
We can gripe all day about Carlisle running the three guard line-up and playing THIS guy rather than THAT guy, but the problem is fiddling with the back end or fiddling with the head coach of the rotation ain't where it's at.
__________________
"It does not take a brain seargant to know the reason this team struggles." -- dmack24
Last edited by alexamenos; 02-10-2010 at 10:54 AM.
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02-10-2010, 12:29 PM
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#48
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
My guess is that the reason Roddy isn't getting burn is that he can't get stuff down in practice. It would be irresponsible of a coach to just toss him out there anyway, not to mention less then optimal for the player's development.
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This.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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02-10-2010, 12:30 PM
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#49
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,857
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I don't think this latest phase should rest on RC. Sure his rotations suck, but at GSW it was 2 mistakes and you're on the pine, he was desperate to get the team back on track.
I blame this latest run on 2 things, brass allowing JHo rumors to surface and get out of control, the second is Dampier's knee. Scouts get paid for a reason and it's to find any weakness in the armor. The weakness is getting past Dallas one on one and then attack the cup and finish strong, Miller and Ellis were huge beneficiaries of that tactic. I'd give RC another season after we cash in on the Dampier piece.
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02-10-2010, 12:37 PM
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#50
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 751
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If Carlisle is gone in1 1/2 years, Byron Scott anyone? Are he and Kidd on good terms?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President
Nowitzki4President is the greatest man to ever live!
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02-10-2010, 01:14 PM
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#51
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,478
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Byron Scott and Avery will have jobs by then.
Mark me down for : Bob Knight
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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02-10-2010, 01:19 PM
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#52
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President
If Carlisle is gone in1 1/2 years, Byron Scott anyone? Are he and Kidd on good terms?
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Doubt it. With Rambis gone, Scott maybe in line for the Laker job.
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02-10-2010, 02:13 PM
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#53
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinemablend
Concrete reasons to fire Carlisle:
- The team isn't listening. Doesn't matter how good a coach he is, if the team isn't listening then he's useless.
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Who would the team listen to? What makes you think the team isnt following his plays? What makes you think they arent listening to him when he preaches defense instead of just being pathetic defensively (especially without Damp)?
Quote:
- Team is unmotivated and seemingly unprepared. That's on the coach.
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Which is it? Unmotivated or "seemingly unprepared"? Sure you blame the coach, but lack of talent or a flat out failing team will look exactly the same as either of those things.
Quote:
- His rotations are insane. Lately he's been coaching like his team is playing hockey. He's wearing out old players, giving younger players such inconsistent time they can't develop or learn or really show what they've got. Players who play good defense like Ross, can't get on the court, even though everyone else sucks and defense is what they need.
- An extension of the above: Roddy isn't getting the minutes he should even in garbage time. It's hurting his development and by extension this team's future.
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1) those young players you refer to in the first paragraph-- they ARE 1 player. Don't pretend there is any other young talent on the roster he isn't developing
2) We don't have penetration. Throwing in Ross has always limited our offense when our offense isn't moving. Ross isn't nearly the player you paint him to be so cry some more over a guy that is a scrub.
3) Roddy will get PT when he shows he can take it. He may play well but if he can't show that he knows how to play actual plays in the NBA, he shouldnt be thrown out there just to wing it so he can develop. This issue has already been hit in this thread by posters that say it better than myself.
Quote:
- Dirk hates him. I don't think Dirk has ever liked him. He's never sounded like a big Carlisle fan. But now... he's clearly done with the guy.
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This is the biggest bullshit Ive ever read in this thread, unless you maybe asked Dirk. Dirk tolerated Johnson and yet somehow hates Carlisle? If you did kick it together I'd love to hear about the experience. Otherwise I'd love to hear some sort of justification for what I perceive to be an unbelievably unjustified assumption.
Quote:
- A trade won't fix the team's motivation... unless you trade ALL of the players. You can't do that, so you need a new coach.
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Or it could be that the team a) really isn't as talented as we've been playing and b) there are locker-room issues that wont resolve until certain players are gone. Trade talk is a HUGE distraction for a team and we've certainly been the biggest team in terms of trade rumors which may very well because we are having huge issues with certain players. The Mavs just tend to keep problems quiet unlike Chicago and Tyrus Thomas, but we could be having much worse.
And what makes you think that throwing a new coach at the new team will suddenly make all the motivation problems, all the talent issues, all the locker-room issues suddenly evaporate? Teams with poor leadership fire the coach and expect things to be better with "another coach". I dont think any coach out there could turn it around as suddenly and magically as you imply. Its just not happening. Even Jackzen had HUGE issues when his talent level wasnt there. Suddenly he's back to championship coach form, but before they landed Gasol, the whole team was falling apart: players were fighting in the locker room, Kobe was asking to be traded, and the team was not only bad, but playing listless. Now Jackson may be one of the best coaches out there. You really expect some trash coach to do better than Carlisle because sacking Carlisle will magically make all our problems disappear?
I dont buy for a second that a change of coaching will fix anything. There aren't better coaches out there and firing Carlisle would be a huge step backward. We may not be making any noise this offseason as it is, but even if we were to land a better coach, we'd basically be forfeiting this season in order to adjust to a new coach. This isn't a team that runs itself with a Nash at its head-- a new coach would mean growing pains, and probably being worse, even IF the team eventually got better.
Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 02-10-2010 at 02:22 PM.
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02-10-2010, 02:58 PM
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#54
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Minister of Soul
Join Date: May 2001
Location: on the Mothership
Posts: 4,893
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After Dirk, Rick Carlisle is the only talent the Mavs have in the entire organization that is virtually guaranteed to still be a factor in the NBA 3 or 4 years from now. You don't fire him. The dude can coach.
Last edited by Rhylan; 02-10-2010 at 02:59 PM.
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02-10-2010, 03:08 PM
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#55
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Old School Balla
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
This.
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Oh, come on. I don't care if the dude is making mistakes or not. Mistakes and all, he's going to make a lot more of a positive impact than Super Spare III.
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02-10-2010, 03:09 PM
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#56
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Old School Balla
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhylan
After Dirk, Rick Carlisle is the only talent the Mavs have in the entire organization that is virtually guaranteed to still be a factor in the NBA 3 or 4 years from now. You don't fire him. The dude can coach.
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I'm not in favor of firing Carlisle at this point, but I am in favor of him getting his head out of his butt when it comes to Beaubois.
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02-10-2010, 03:18 PM
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#57
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Minister of Soul
Join Date: May 2001
Location: on the Mothership
Posts: 4,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kg_veteran
I'm not in favor of firing Carlisle at this point, but I am in favor of him getting his head out of his butt when it comes to Beaubois.
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That's the only beef I have right now. I'll tell you what I tell my wife - there has to be something going on in practices that we're not seeing. But this week added a twist. It's peculiar that in the middle of this malaise, Beaubois got a lot of pub for more or less "graduating" into the rotation.. came in, had a positive impact, and now all of a sudden he's been put back into hiding the last two games.
But we're not going to get a public explanation from the coach telling us all how much of a coaching marvel he is and why he's doing what he's doing. And honestly, after the self-proclaimed genius of Avery and the world class bullshitting of Nellie for 10 years, I'm okay with that for now. I like that he appears to save most of his talking for practices and huddles instead of TV cameras and reporters.
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02-10-2010, 03:23 PM
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#58
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: north texas
Posts: 2,186
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i don't think there's another coach in the league i'd want more than carlisle, honestly.
__________________
Texas Rangers 2011 Regular Season Win/Losses
24-23
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02-10-2010, 03:37 PM
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#59
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,146
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I don't think it's the coach either.
The only complaint I have is the handling of Roddy, but there could be reasons for that that we don't know yet...
I think Carlisle is a good coach. I think losing just makes everybody unhappy.
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02-11-2010, 01:07 AM
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#60
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 218
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Good points made here. And yeah-Spurs fans are wanting Pop's head because he has strange rotations, fails to make adjustments, puts Finley and Bonner on the floor, can't cure cancer, walk on water,etc,etc,etc... Although benching Duncan and putting Blair on Gasol was an odd decision. And so far RJ looks to be a complete bust for the Spurs. Pop can't make him play better-he'll just continue to scream at RJ and hope he gets it.
I wish Carlisle hadn't devised his short rotation early on but continued playing the bench like he did earlier in the season. But Tim Thomas is God knows where, Singleton rarely gets play, Ross was injured this season, but can't score. So options are limited for him.
The players need to figure out how to motivate themselves-pride, money, another potential win, whatever gets them going. They are grown men getting paid obscene salaries for playing a game they supposedly love. Where's that love?
Losing does make everyone crabby and point fingers, but the blame can go to everyone here-but primarily the players. RC is culpable as well, but he can't go out there and play for them. They need to find their nuts and hearts and play. A loss is acceptable if the team plays hard and doesn't give the opposition everything they want.
Whatever is going on-it needs to be addressed and fixed quickly as possible.
But just for kicks, how about a Pop/Carlisle trade?
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02-11-2010, 11:00 AM
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#61
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 16,054
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Quote:
Oh, come on. I don't care if the dude is making mistakes or not. Mistakes and all, he's going to make a lot more of a positive impact than Super Spare III.
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III? I know Armstrong was Super Spare... but who was Super Spare II?
The Mavs are in a funk right now and Carlisle is part of the problem. But I blame a lot of it on the players right now.
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02-11-2010, 11:18 AM
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#62
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,388
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Carlisle has made plenty of mistakes, but those mistakes are so far down the list of problems with this team, it's not even funny. You've got an aging roster of mediocre talent with key injuries, trade rumors, and at least one guy who's flat out given up on the team. Hell, it's amazing we're even in the playoff picture when you think about it. And we're supposed to fire the coach? Please...
Last edited by Thespiralgoeson; 02-11-2010 at 11:24 AM.
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02-11-2010, 02:37 PM
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#63
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayliss
III? I know Armstrong was Super Spare... but who was Super Spare II?
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Anthony Johnson?
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02-11-2010, 02:46 PM
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#64
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Old School Balla
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan
Anthony Johnson?
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Nice memory.
Yes, I dubbed Armstrong the original Super Spare, and then Anthony Johnson was Super Spare II. And now, we have a trilogy.
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02-11-2010, 04:20 PM
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#65
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 276
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Wait for it...Wait for it...
__________________
“They gotta come through Texas first. We’ll see what happens. I’m still mad about the ’06 Finals. LeBron just walked into a fire he doesn’t know about.” - JET (said at the beginning of the '10-'11 season)
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02-11-2010, 08:27 PM
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#66
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 16,054
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Quote:
Nice memory.
Yes, I dubbed Armstrong the original Super Spare, and then Anthony Johnson was Super Spare II. And now, we have a trilogy.
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I always dubbed him "Lard@ss."
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02-12-2010, 07:59 PM
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#67
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DC
Posts: 4,712
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I don't have it in me to read this thread because I think it will just anger me
Can someone just compile a list of everyone that thinks carlisle shouuld be fired and send it to me? It will be a nice little reference tool to look at so I know which readers' comments to ignore.
__________________
Quote:
RT @TyLawson3 Good game between Dallas and Portland. Good thing we didn't end up getting Dallas. Coach Karl lost his mind.
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02-12-2010, 07:59 PM
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#68
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DC
Posts: 4,712
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Oh incidentally Isiah Thomas is out there for a coach if anyone is actually serious
__________________
Quote:
RT @TyLawson3 Good game between Dallas and Portland. Good thing we didn't end up getting Dallas. Coach Karl lost his mind.
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02-12-2010, 08:22 PM
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#69
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,572
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Mike, Dan & Toni
Rick, Carl, & Lyle
All better coaches than Thomas. I have no doubt in my mind that Thomas would immediately try to trade Dirk for an inferior black player within his first week.
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02-12-2010, 08:31 PM
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#70
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DC
Posts: 4,712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
Mike, Dan & Toni
Rick, Carl, & Lyle
All better coaches than Thomas. I have no doubt in my mind that Thomas would immediately try to trade Dirk for an inferior black player within his first week.
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No. I promise you, Eddy Curry is THIS close to being the next Shaq.
__________________
Quote:
RT @TyLawson3 Good game between Dallas and Portland. Good thing we didn't end up getting Dallas. Coach Karl lost his mind.
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02-12-2010, 08:38 PM
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#71
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 147
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this is retarted. carlisle is a good coach, and one of the best at drawing up plays.
i loved avery, and i would of liked dantoni before we hires carlisle, but im happy with him.
if we were to fire him and need a new coach, marc jackson is at the top of my list.
but im fine with our current staff it aint their fault we lose games
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02-12-2010, 08:48 PM
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#72
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,572
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Mark Jackson is a beer-drinking Avery Johnson. Just sayin.
Honestly I'd love to have Harris back as an assistant, and if we were to sack Carlisle (which is WAY premature) then I'd take Doug Collins for his BBIQ, if he was even willing to come back to coaching, but there isnt a coach out there that is better than Carlisle.
There are plenty of reasons that Johnson and Thomas aren't coaching right now. New York was just too dumb to fire Thomas earlier. Jackson was an amazing basketball player with extremely high BBIQ, but I'm not sold on him as a coach.
Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 02-12-2010 at 08:57 PM.
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02-13-2010, 01:20 AM
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#73
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowhereman
I don't have it in me to read this thread because I think it will just anger me
Can someone just compile a list of everyone that thinks carlisle shouuld be fired and send it to me? It will be a nice little reference tool to look at so I know which readers' comments to ignore.
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This is the same roster that was winning us 75% of the games earlier this year. Obviously, something has gone wrong with the attitudes of the players. I don't know how you can spin it to make it look like Carlisle is doing a good job. Anytime it looks like the players don't care for a long period of time, the coach is definitely the one to blame for not being able to motivate them.
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02-13-2010, 08:17 AM
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#74
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavsfan1000
This is the same roster that was winning us 75% of the games earlier this year. Obviously, something has gone wrong with the attitudes of the players. I don't know how you can spin it to make it look like Carlisle is doing a good job. Anytime it looks like the players don't care for a long period of time, the coach is definitely the one to blame for not being able to motivate them.
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Again, injuries, trade rumors, and at least one guy who's flat out given up on the team. Most importantly, the roster just isn't very good. As for the early success this year? The team was just plain over-achieving. They were playing over their heads. Plain and simple. I knew it was going to come crashing down eventually (although I have to admit I didn't think it would get this bad.)
I'm not necessarily saying Carlisle has done a great job, or even a good one. His rotations certainly do puzzle me at times. However I can say without hesitation that he isn't even CLOSE to being the biggest problem with this team. I can also say somewhat comfortably that replacing him at this point is definitely not going to help matters any, especially considering we've got nobody to replace him with.
Nobody here has nearly enough information to say with any certainty that Carlisle is the reason the team isn't motivated enough. You can have the best coach in the world and the team is still going to struggle if you've got a clusterf*ck of a situation like we have right now.
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02-13-2010, 03:58 PM
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#75
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Josh not showing up and Damp's bad knee are the factors I consider that are crushing this team's spirit...not sure how much of that is Carlisle's fault, but I'd wager very little.
Josh's time is just up, I don't see how that is Carlisle's fault. Stein said yesterday it is clear that despite all his efforts (from early on), Rick has never been able to get "in" with Josh. They just never meshed.
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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02-13-2010, 04:01 PM
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#76
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,885
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Well Carlisle has the rest of this season now to prove he can win with talent. The team spirit should naturally be much better now.
Last edited by mavsfan1000; 02-13-2010 at 04:01 PM.
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02-13-2010, 05:49 PM
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#77
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,074
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JVG is easily the best guy not coaching...but I don't think he's really interested in coming back.
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02-16-2010, 09:54 PM
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#78
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Reeperbahn
Posts: 4,568
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Seriously...today is one of those days on wich I cannot understand his desicions...
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02-16-2010, 09:59 PM
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#79
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,885
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Carlisle doesn't know what talent is. How can he not play Beaubois while Barea is sucking it up? The offense is very stagnant as well. I thought Kidd was supposed to fix that? Can you say overrated?
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02-16-2010, 10:06 PM
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#80
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Reeperbahn
Posts: 4,568
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edit: nevermind...wrong thread
__________________
Last edited by LetsGoMavs; 02-16-2010 at 10:07 PM.
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