What should the dirkster do about players getting up into him? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dude1394 · 02-26-2009, 10:00 AM

I was talking about this the other day with a friend of mine. I expect I've elicited this conversation before also...but....I forget...

So we've again seen players just get right up into dirk this year. Right up in his grill and in fact they've been able to draw flopping offensive foul calls because of it. I never realized that you could not pivot in basketball or turn your body...but that's another story.

How to deal with it? I'm inclined to see him take some fines and elbow the crap out of those guys and be done with it. Of course that might/might not work. They could bring in a scrub, still do it and get dirk out of the game.

I don't see anyone doing that to duncan out on the wing for example. I do see it happen to kobe sometimes I seem to recall.

What shold dirks basketball move be in that case? Does he immediately just drive to the side and go around the guy...that sort of seems like what duncan does. He would have to just power it through since I don't think he's quick enough ala kobe to just go around them.

Thought I would get the boards thoughts on it.

Underdog · 02-26-2009, 10:17 AM

The title of this thread is is a lot better now...

Underdog · 02-26-2009, 10:18 AM

I still think the solution is more ball movement - don't give your opponent time to take advantage of the way Dirk is reffed...

vinylstar · 02-26-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I still think the solution is more ball movement - don't give your opponent time to take advantage of the way Dirk is reffed...

Agreed. No one else in the NBA can be as manhandled as Dirk on the perimeter without a foul. It is baffling to me.

bernardos70 · 02-26-2009, 11:11 AM

Quick move to the basket. Pull up or drive all the way. Hope the ref's having a good day and decides to call a foul as he'll invariably get hammered. It gives me a tired head.

DirkFTW · 02-26-2009, 11:42 AM

Dribble backwards and take the three!!!

purplefrog · 02-26-2009, 11:57 AM

I tend to agree with dude. Dirk needs to inflict some physical pain on the defender. One way to accomplish this is for the FO to make a trade this offseason for Bruce Bowen. No one in the NBA is more creative on how to injure an opponent than Bruce. He could be an excellent mentor. In all seriousness, I think the fear of an elbow to the face would go along way to solving the problem.

SMC0007 · 02-26-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I was talking about this the other day with a friend of mine. I expect I've elicited this conversation before also...but....I forget...

So we've again seen players just get right up into dirk this year. Right up in his grill and in fact they've been able to draw flopping offensive foul calls because of it. I never realized that you could not pivot in basketball or turn your body...but that's another story.

How to deal with it? I'm inclined to see him take some fines and elbow the crap out of those guys and be done with it. Of course that might/might not work. They could bring in a scrub, still do it and get dirk out of the game.

I don't see anyone doing that to duncan out on the wing for example. I do see it happen to kobe sometimes I seem to recall.

What shold dirks basketball move be in that case? Does he immediately just drive to the side and go around the guy...that sort of seems like what duncan does. He would have to just power it through since I don't think he's quick enough ala kobe to just go around them.

Thought I would get the boards thoughts on it.

I think Dirk could benefit greatly from watching some Duncan tapes. When guys crowd him like that he uses it to BAIT them into a reching foul. He does it by basically pulling the ball up under their arms and creating contact on his shot. There is a big difference tho in where Duncan and Dirk operate. Also Duncan turns his side to the defender while Dirk faces them up more, it's much easier to back them down or go against the defenders front foot on a drive with the defender on their hip. He doesn't have to blow them off the drive all he has to do is get his body in front of them on the first step and then use his body to fend them off and force them to foul.

DavidDaMonkey · 02-26-2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

I tend to agree with dude. Dirk needs to inflict some physical pain on the defender. One way to accomplish this is for the FO to make a trade this offseason for Bruce Bowen. No one in the NBA is more creative on how to injure an opponent than Bruce. He could be an excellent mentor. In all seriousness, I think the fear of an elbow to the face would go along way to solving the problem.

I'd take DWhistle, BDiddy, CP3, or almost anybody else, but if Bowen is on this team, I quit being a Mavs fan.

TheMaverick · 02-26-2009, 12:44 PM

So easy.

Basketball 101.

give and go.

Dtownsfinest · 02-26-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

I'd take DWhistle, BDiddy, CP3, or almost anybody else, but if Bowen is on this team, I quit being a Mavs fan.

Why? The Mavs actually go after a shut down defender? Probably the smartest defender in the league? I don't even care if he gets any pt i'd just love to have him at practice guarding Josh and Dirk. To see that daily at practice would be tremendous for those guys.

alby · 02-26-2009, 12:50 PM

Isn't Bowen like 40 now?

Murphy3 · 02-26-2009, 12:55 PM

This isn't the first time that this has happened. Dirk goes through short funks and works his way out of it.

Tokey41 · 02-26-2009, 02:54 PM

Swinging the elbows. If Dirk should be watching anyone it's Karl Malone, no one wanted to crowd that guy.

bernardos70 · 02-26-2009, 03:02 PM

SMC, I've seen Duncan do that on the block, when he has his back to the basket he basically brings his arms up from the side making sure the defender has his arms out so his arms get tangled up with the defender's. I don't remember seeing him do that while he's at the elbow. I'll see if I can spot him doing that.

SMC0007 · 02-26-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

SMC, I've seen Duncan do that on the block, when he has his back to the basket he basically brings his arms up from the side making sure the defender has his arms out so his arms get tangled up with the defender's. I don't remember seeing him do that while he's at the elbow. I'll see if I can spot him doing that.

Yeah exactly the move I'm talking about.. I have seen him do it some on the elbow, it's not near as often as he does on the block. I couldn't find many of either on youtube unfortunately :/ But dang ol' I think that is a great way for him to get more calls on bs way the officials allow him to be guarded. I'm not that big on making excuses but he does get ripped on calls more than anyone else in the league besides Shaq (in the day).

MaVs 41 BaLler · 02-26-2009, 05:48 PM

Post up and use that sexy fade away.

mac222b · 02-26-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I think Dirk could benefit greatly from watching some Duncan tapes. When guys crowd him like that he uses it to BAIT them into a reching foul. He does it by basically pulling the ball up under their arms and creating contact on his shot. There is a big difference tho in where Duncan and Dirk operate. Also Duncan turns his side to the defender while Dirk faces them up more, it's much easier to back them down or go against the defenders front foot on a drive with the defender on their hip. He doesn't have to blow them off the drive all he has to do is get his body in front of them on the first step and then use his body to fend them off and force them to foul.

excellent analysis

AxdemxO · 02-26-2009, 06:12 PM

Dirk needs to keep the ball in front of him or on his side. When he puts it up behind his head, which is what he does. People get clos4e to him and now he cant shoot and isnt quik enough to dribble it around. So either shoot it quik or dont put it behind his head

fluid.forty.one · 02-26-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Dirk needs to keep the ball in front of him or on his side. When he puts it up behind his head, which is what he does. People get clos4e to him and now he cant shoot and isnt quik enough to dribble it around. So either shoot it quik or dont put it behind his head

yes, I'm sure you know more about what kind of basketball technique works better for Dirk than Dirk does.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 02-26-2009, 06:57 PM

The answer is obvious...

Uppercut them with the ball.

quietsavant · 02-26-2009, 07:03 PM

Jesus said take it to the hole

AxdemxO · 02-26-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

yes, I'm sure you know more about what kind of basketball technique works better for Dirk than Dirk does.

uhh some one is irritated ...soo F off my mann ; )

The question was asking what Dirk should do?? Soo I gave my opinion, soo hopp off

fluid.forty.one · 02-26-2009, 08:20 PM

Why do you always add extraaa letterrrs to worrdss?

TheMaverick · 02-26-2009, 08:25 PM

seriously, give and go. it will keep the defender honest.

AxdemxO · 02-26-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Why do you always add extraaa letterrrs to worrdss?

Idk must be just to bother you, since you like to get on peoples case for no reason or without actually understanding what they are trying to say. I mean you think you are the know it all, and anytime someone else posts an opinion, you are quik to jump at them. sooooo Idk

TheMaverick · 02-26-2009, 08:30 PM

round 1. fight!

fluid.forty.one · 02-26-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Idk must be just to bother you, since you like to get on peoples case for no reason or without actually understanding what they are trying to say.

logic
leap

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

I mean you think you are the know it all, and anytime someone else posts an opinion, you are quik to jump at them. sooooo Idk

There are a lot of opinions that I disagree with on here, but I don't jump on them when they state their opinions in a clear, intelligent manner.

ghazi · 02-26-2009, 08:46 PM

Mavs fan disunity!

Stay united

fluid.forty.one · 02-26-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMaverick

round 1. fight!

simila' to the thrilla' in manilla

Anyway, I agree that that passing would be the way to beat the double/triple teams. The problem is that Dirk doesn't (shouldn't?) trust a lot of the guys to finish, even when he puts them in a perfect position. Also, even when passing is usually the best option, Dirk still needs to be Dirk. We aren't going to win many games with Dirk being held down. I doubt we'll win *any* that way in the playoffs.

AxdemxO · 02-26-2009, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

logic
leap

There are a lot of opinions that I disagree with on here, but I don't jump on them when they state their opinions in a clear, intelligent manner.

Soo there you go with you stupidity again. Who are you again to judge what is intelligent on here?? Ohh yee nobody...soo stick to you basketball opinions budd ; )

AxdemxO · 02-26-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

There are a lot of opinions that I disagree with on here, but I don't jump on them when they state their opinions in a clear, intelligent manner.

Here you just proved my point AGAIN

mqywaaah · 02-26-2009, 09:26 PM

Place your bets, people!!

dude1394 · 02-26-2009, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Dirk needs to keep the ball in front of him or on his side. When he puts it up behind his head, which is what he does. People get clos4e to him and now he cant shoot and isnt quik enough to dribble it around. So either shoot it quik or dont put it behind his head

I think you have a good point...First it doesn't allow him to hit the dude "inadvertantly". when he puts it behind his head...his options seem to be limited and the guy really crowds him then.

AxdemxO · 02-27-2009, 11:29 AM

Thank you...a person that actually takes time to read and understand

** someone above could learn a few things

catsil · 02-28-2009, 12:44 AM

Well, basketball 101 says for Dirk to drive past the crowding defender.
Unfortunately
1) Opponents play second line defense. Dirk is not fast enough to get past them and the supporting cast doesn't make them pay enough for this.
2) Dirk often doesn't get a call on his drives.

It was exposed by Nellie.. remember Stephen Jackson or Jason Richardson being up in Dirk's grill...

dude1394 · 02-28-2009, 01:52 AM

Something happened tonight to JJB that I think dirk should do some of. JJB was crowding his man and the guy went up for a shot and smacked JJB in the mouth with an elbow.

That sounds like a decent play. Go up for a shot when the guy is right up on you....smack him in the face with it and draw the foul.

antoinewalker · 02-28-2009, 06:18 AM

dirk is so good.

AxdemxO · 02-28-2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Dirk needs to keep the ball in front of him or on his side. When he puts it up behind his head, which is what he does. People get clos4e to him and now he cant shoot and isnt quik enough to dribble it around. So either shoot it quik or dont put it behind his head

Am just saying

cowdog80 · 02-28-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinylstar

Agreed. No one else in the NBA can be as manhandled as Dirk on the perimeter without a foul. It is baffling to me.

i don't think that's really true. i think most bigs get reffed that way on the perimeter. the difference is that most bigs out there will be looking for the mismatch elsewhere (i.e. if there is a smaller/quicker guy crowding them, there is a bigger/slower player guarding someone else on the floor).

a small on Dirk is already a mismatch so he's still looking to score.

i think the ideal way to beat it is for dirk to give the ball up, then post the player up and get the ball back before the defense has an opportunity to switch.