GDT: game 14/82 - Kings (7-4) at Mavs (9-4) 6:30 - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-20-2023, 05:40 AM

Why isn't any of our defensive guys playing any D? Grant, DJJ, and Green need to step up in this area. Of course, that just sends me to Kidd's system if all of them aren't performing in that area. Still, that's what we are paying them for. I get that overall we won't ever be a good D team with this squad, but the guys that can play it need to start doing it.

SMC0007 · 11-20-2023, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Why isn't any of our defensive guys playing any D? Grant, DJJ, and Green need to step up in this area. Of course, that just sends me to Kidd's system if all of them aren't performing in that area. Still, that's what we are paying them for. I get that overall we won't ever be a good D team with this squad, but the guys that can play it need to start doing it.

Mavs are where "defenders" come to die.

Theres a lot of things i don't get about the system, coach and owner. How long do they need to see something before they realize they need to trash it?

Luka is a tragic defender. He should never be guarding pg or sg...ever. its embarrasing when he gets isolated vs anyone with handles or any size and it gets worse the quicker they are. There were about 4 or 5 open 3s last night because Luka gets crossed up and blown by, the help sags in toward the lane and they kick the ball out to the open guy. Thats been happening from day 1 and hasnt improved. Its foolish to have him anywhere up top defending anyone.

Thj is another guy who sags off his man on defense as if hes going to accomplish anything. Its either a reach in foul, an and1 or a pass out to the man he just left and he cant recover and get back out to his man.

tap2390 · 11-20-2023, 09:53 AM

I refuse to believe we can't be a better defensive team with our current personnel. Does not help that our coach is out there saying we're going to need to score 130 instead of getting on our guys to play some f'in defense.

Looking at the top defensive squads what stands out to me is a coach that emphasized effort and defense (Knicks, Magic, Rockets). Honestly, we probably should have hired Ime Udoka when we had the chance.

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-20-2023, 11:38 AM

Well we need a better backup center. When stupid Skin says we miss Maxi...ugh. Too many people in the org seem out of touch with reality sometimes. Nico is one of the few who I think actually gets it.

We need Drummond. That might not fix everything, but it helps with defense and really helps with rebounding.

Get rid of Powell and Kleber once and for all. They are trash players that don't help this team. Seriously, Powell has scored 9 points total in 4 games. Scoring is the only thing he is semi-capable of doing too.

tap2390 · 11-20-2023, 11:43 AM

DJJ is also regressing to his true self. Right now we either need to trade Green, or give him a real run as a starter to see if he can unlock his potential.

Melonhead · 11-20-2023, 11:51 AM

Seems like Kidd isnt even bothering with defense, hes given up on that idea

"Our offense is our defense"

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-20-2023, 12:09 PM

That's fine. I'm OK being an offensive team, but it doesn't excuse why our defensive players are having 0 impact. Luka is actually having his best defensive season, and yet it's making no impact.

That means it's a system problem.

SMC0007 · 11-20-2023, 12:30 PM

When has Kidd ever been animated here? Hes definitely no strategist, so wtf does he excel at? The single only reason he is here was fan retention when we lost Donnie and Rick. So, well lets bring Kidd back! We need a fiery coach. Someone who isnt concerned with feelings or ruffling feathers and will hold mfs accountable. This still seems like a team that hasnt got ripped into.

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-20-2023, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

When has Kidd ever been animated here? Hes definitely no strategist, so wtf does he excel at? The single only reason he is here was fan retention when we lost Donnie and Rick. So, well lets bring Kidd back! We need a fiery coach. Someone who isnt concerned with feelings or ruffling feathers and will hold mfs accountable. This still seems like a team that hasnt got ripped into.

He isn't a strategist. That's why I mentioned Rick's Pacers. I don't think Kidd's system is much different from Ricks versus a "player" friendly focused coach vs a "system" friendly focused coach.

SMC0007 · 11-20-2023, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

He isn't a strategist. That's why I mentioned Rick's Pacers. I don't think Kidd's system is much different from Ricks versus a "player" friendly focused coach vs a "system" friendly focused coach.

I mean, it Looks like the same system Rick used. Put a familiar face of ultimate success as coach and pacify casual fans. The problem is Kidd will have to miss playoffs this season and next before Cuban even considers a change. If people in media question Cuban and theres backlash, he will dig his heels in and prolong the shit.

Melonhead · 11-20-2023, 02:00 PM

Funny mentioning Carlisle, dude flat out sucks as a defense coach. Doesnt matter where he goes.

NBA defensive rating

26. Mavs 118.2

27. Pacers 118.4

Jazz, Spurs and Hornets are the only 3 teams below us and pacers. I believe its (mostly) a system/effort issue because jazz spurs hornets dont have the personnel. Mavs do to an extent.

Hell put Morris twin out there, let Holmes bang around inside, something has to be mixed up though. Where is the defensive leadership going to come from?

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-20-2023, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I mean, it Looks like the same system Rick used. Put a familiar face of ultimate success as coach and pacify casual fans. The problem is Kidd will have to miss playoffs this season and next before Cuban even considers a change. If people in media question Cuban and theres backlash, he will dig his heels in and prolong the shit.

And that's what should ultimately irritate people. Kidd will do just enough using the offense to make the playoffs to keep his job.

Again, the offense does look great, but we all know that not playing defense or rebounding will get you nowhere in the playoffs.

The one constant plus is Dereck Lively who had 9 rebounds. I was concerned about his rebounding coming into the season, but he has done well in that dept the last four game.

SMC0007 · 11-20-2023, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Funny mentioning Carlisle, dude flat out sucks as a defense coach. Doesnt matter where he goes.

NBA defensive rating

26. Mavs 118.2

27. Pacers 118.4

Jazz, Spurs and Hornets are the only 3 teams below us and pacers. I believe its (mostly) a system/effort issue because jazz spurs hornets dont have the personnel. Mavs do to an extent.

Hell put Morris twin out there, let Holmes bang around inside, something has to be mixed up though. Where is the defensive leadership going to come from?

Im nowhere near convinced that we have defensive personel. We definitely lack effort to move up the list.

DJJ - rail thin.
Grant is - portly, and slow. But he is crafty
Luka - lol....NADDA
Kyrie - quick and crafty but not a gritty , effective defender
Lively - Good defender
Green - half way decent defender. Hasnt lived up to his potential.
Dp, maxi, holmes, curry, hardy - the dont even deserve individual lines for a comment.

And there is no defensive leadership. Grant is who Luka said was that guy, but it hasnt been rubbing off on the team. Lively gets the message though. He knows exactly what he is supposed to do.

If i own the team, im telling Kidd he better get the defense turned around or else. Im showing up to practices and Im letting everyone on the staff and players know what i expect.

Melonhead · 11-20-2023, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Im nowhere near convinced that we have defensive personel. We definitely lack effort to move up the list.

DJJ - rail thin.
Grant is - portly, and slow. But he is crafty
Luka - lol....NADDA
Kyrie - quick and crafty but not a gritty , effective defender
Lively - Good defender
Green - half way decent defender. Hasnt lived up to his potential.
Dp, maxi, holmes, curry, hardy - the dont even deserve individual lines for a comment.

And there is no defensive leadership. Grant is who Luka said was that guy, but it hasnt been rubbing off on the team. Lively gets the message though. He knows exactly what he is supposed to do.

If i own the team, im telling Kidd he better get the defense turned around or else. Im showing up to practices and Im letting everyone on the staff and players know what i expect.

I think were missing a piece or two, but they have enough personnel to not be bottom 4 in defensive rating.

EricaLubarsky · 11-20-2023, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I think were missing a piece or two, but they have enough personnel to not be bottom 4 in defensive rating.

This.

GWill is undersized for a PF sure.
Lively is young

But this team should be 15-20 at worst. The fact that we're 26th is a Kidd/Luka issue.

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-20-2023, 06:23 PM

Which is why people shouldn't be posting videos of Kyrie, Luka, or THJ not putting in effort on defense. Those three have literally carried the team to wins this season with their offense. They're never going to be guys you can rely on to be good defenders.

Of course defense needs to be a team effort, but when you're scoring 130-150 to win, then the defensive guys need to carry their load.

SMC0007 · 11-20-2023, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Which is why people shouldn't be posting videos of Kyrie, Luka, or THJ not putting in effort on defense. Those three have literally carried the team to wins this season with their offense. They're never going to be guys you can rely on to be good defenders.

Of course defense needs to be a team effort, but when you're scoring 130-150 to win, then the defensive guys need to carry their load.

Unfortunately it doesnt work like that very often. You need a balanced team that features some versatile 2 way players. Luka, Kyrie and Thj are winning us some games, but they are losing us games too. Team defense consists of those 3 just flat out being better. They have skated by with low defensive IQ (THJ) and low effort...especially regarding Luka.

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-20-2023, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Unfortunately it doesnt work like that very often. You need a balanced team that features some versatile 2 way players. Luka, Kyrie and Thj are winning us some games, but they are losing us games too. Team defense consists of those 3 just flat out being better. They have skated by with low defensive IQ (THJ) and low effort...especially regarding Luka.

I'm still for selling high on THJ, but I can't see him getting us the defender we need. Plus, you know the FO won't trade him if he is playing well.

SMC0007 · 11-20-2023, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'm still for selling high on THJ, but I can't see him getting us the defender we need. Plus, you know the FO won't trade him if he is playing well.

THJ is great as a 6th man. Nothing more, though. We have other guys we could move

Melonhead · 11-20-2023, 11:01 PM

I would sell THJ as well. It?s the best he?s played in Dallas. Only if we can get back a defensive wing.

The offense will survive not being top 2 in the league if we lose THJ.

But the defense has to get better because offensive rating means nothing without the defense being passable.

Dallas41 · 11-21-2023, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The winning honeymoon was only going to cover up Kidd's shittiness for so long. Like look, Javale is usable for the Kings. Go figure.

Play Holmes. Simple.

Holmes is the new Mcgee here

He won't see the floor despite the teams lack of rebounding and interior defense.

Powell simply can't be replaced here.

Plus for the 2nd straight year kidd has already given up on defense for this team. He basically said it again they have to score 130 points to win Games

Instead of demanding Luka and kyrie to give better effort he takes the chicken shit way out and says let just try to outscore everyone

I find it fucking amazing that Denver with Jokic, Murray and Porter all on the floor together van still find ways to get stop and play team defense when needed.

But Luka keeps getting a free pass

SMC0007 · 11-21-2023, 09:48 AM

Kidd is a fn clown. Theres no way around it. I wasnt happy about hiring him, and i tried to be positive about it but thats long gone.

Its sad that the only way to keep powell off the floor is if he is traded. Idc what any stat says or how well he sets picks or hustles, Id rather see Holmes. Holmes isnt playing at all and Maxi isnt even active. I feel sorry for him, he is going to have a wasted year here on the bench when he is trying to restart his career. Hes not the answer for us, but hes got somethinf to offer and here we are rolling out thr same garbage as the last handful of years. We are lucky as hell that Lively is way ahead of schedule. He has been a big part of the wins 9 wins.

purplefrog · 11-21-2023, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Well we need a better backup center. When stupid Skin says we miss Maxi...ugh. Too many people in the org seem out of touch with reality sometimes. Nico is one of the few who I think actually gets it.

We need Drummond. That might not fix everything, but it helps with defense and really helps with rebounding.

Get rid of Powell and Kleber once and for all. They are trash players that don't help this team. Seriously, Powell has scored 9 points total in 4 games. Scoring is the only thing he is semi-capable of doing too.

I agree, but if by some chance the Mavs could trade for Drummond would Kidd play him? I'm not convinced he would.

SMC0007 · 11-21-2023, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

I agree, but if by some chance the Mavs could trade for Drummond would Kidd play him? I'm not convinced he would.

Powell would have to be in that trade, 100% guaranteed. Or he would sit next to Holmes

purplefrog · 11-21-2023, 02:24 PM

The link below takes you to a series of video clips showing the horrible team defense by our Mavs. It is eye-opening to watch the lack of rotations, effort, and what seems to be outright confusion as to where and what just about every player is supposed to be doing. This is emblematic of poor coaching. I just can't believe that the BBIQ is so low across the board that this is a mostly a personnel problem.

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2023/1...breaking-point

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-21-2023, 03:40 PM

We all know it's coaching. It's not dissimilar from Doc Rivers who is also a "players" coach and his teams never had any discipline. It was a weekly news update on what was wrong in the Clippers locker room when he was coach there.

Problem is that I can't wake up every day and complain about Kidd as coach because they won't fire him. As long as Lively is the starting and main center, then I've chosen to give up on most other things this season. We aren't contenders, but we are pretty fun to watch again. Losses might start souring that though...

Worst part is that we missed out on that boat load of good coaches available this past summer. Look at what Nick Nurse and Udoka are doing. And of course, Mosley who was employed by our fricken' team two years ago. All of them are better than Kidd IMO.

But whistling in the wind...

Melonhead · 11-21-2023, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

The link below takes you to a series of video clips showing the horrible team defense by our Mavs. It is eye-opening to watch the lack of rotations, effort, and what seems to be outright confusion as to where and what just about every player is supposed to be doing. This is emblematic of poor coaching. I just can't believe that the BBIQ is so low across the board that this is a mostly a personnel problem.

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2023/1...breaking-point

Good on mavs moneyball turning up the heat a bit. They arent firing Kidd, so itd be great if they brought in a defensive assistant. Or hell bring in someone that can show them film of that sorry effort.

saclare · 11-22-2023, 11:09 AM

I mean, I get they need to change up the defense.

But it's shocking how so many are quick to blame Kidd for everything. This roster has the same fucking issues and they figured just adding Lively would solve it all. It's been quite apparent what this team's needs are and they haven't been addressed over two off seasons and a trade deadline.

The front office is going to start getting the brunt of my complaints with this team because while it's good enough to rack up wins, the fuck else if they are winning a playoff series. Any team with a decent big + rotation is going to clean up the boards and attack the paint. It's the same blueprint and game plan teams have had for a couple seasons now.

Improve the roster, specifically the rotation of bigs!

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-22-2023, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

I mean, I get they need to change up the defense.

But it's shocking how so many are quick to blame Kidd for everything. This roster has the same fucking issues and they figured just adding Lively would solve it all. It's been quite apparent what this team's needs are and they haven't been addressed over two off seasons and a trade deadline.

The front office is going to start getting the brunt of my complaints with this team because while it's good enough to rack up wins, the fuck else if they are winning a playoff series. Any team with a decent big + rotation is going to clean up the boards and attack the paint. It's the same blueprint and game plan teams have had for a couple seasons now.

Improve the roster, specifically the rotation of bigs!

But Kidd makes it basically impossible not to blame him. Like, he trashed our bigs not named Lively 8 games into the season. So it begs the question...why the f did we re-sign Powell then? It's this disconnect between Kidd and the FO that never makes any sense to me. FO loved getting Holmes but not Kidd!

saclare · 11-22-2023, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But Kidd makes it basically impossible not to blame him. Like, he trashed our bigs not named Lively 8 games into the season. So it begs the question...why the f did we re-sign Powell then? It's this disconnect between Kidd and the FO that never makes any sense to me. FO loved getting Holmes but not Kidd!

That strengthens my point of blame being on the FO. Not sure what the disconnect is...

SMC0007 · 11-22-2023, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

I mean, I get they need to change up the defense.

But it's shocking how so many are quick to blame Kidd for everything. This roster has the same fucking issues and they figured just adding Lively would solve it all. It's been quite apparent what this team's needs are and they haven't been addressed over two off seasons and a trade deadline.

The front office is going to start getting the brunt of my complaints with this team because while it's good enough to rack up wins, the fuck else if they are winning a playoff series. Any team with a decent big + rotation is going to clean up the boards and attack the paint. It's the same blueprint and game plan teams have had for a couple seasons now.

Improve the roster, specifically the rotation of bigs!

Well they added Lively and added DFS2 in Grant Williams. Or is DJJ the DFS2? I cant tell any of them apart by much.

Anyway we must win tonight vs Lakers without LBJ and AD.