Cindy McCain Charged $750K On Platinum Cards In One Month - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Janett_Reno · 07-04-2008, 01:35 PM

This is not surprising to me, this adm lives on credit cards. Charge everything and borrow the money from China. Build up China and the middle east and care less about the country we love. It's a shame. Soon, we will have someone to stand up for the country he loves.
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http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11477.html

Their credit card bills peaked between January 2007 and May 2008, during which time Cindy McCain charged as much as $500,000 in a single month on one American Express card and $250,000 on another, while one of their two dependent children had an AmEx card with a monthly balance as large as $50,000.

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Now this sounds to me, we get more of the same we have in now. Charge it, borrow the money from China and also tax the poor and middle class to fund things we want. I mean shouldn't ever neocon give their child a credit card with a monthly balance of 50 grand a month? Does a neocon care about the price of gas? This doesn't concern them. Does this sound like someone that cares? Is this morals and does this teach your children alot of faith and values? The American people know where the real morals are and who has the faith and values.

jefelump · 07-04-2008, 01:45 PM

What??? Now you're saying Cindy McCain is part of "this adm"??? How many credit cards do YOU have?

Janett_Reno · 07-04-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jefelump

What??? Now you're saying Cindy McCain is part of "this adm"??? How many credit cards do YOU have?

I do not live like McCain, W, Rumsfield, Cheney, so i won't be votting for them. Take the tax payers money to fund the middle east as you strip the American people out of jobs. No, this is not the American way. I do not find any faith and values in borrowing money from China and them funding us. I have faith in my American people and they are the ones i feel should have jobs. This is values to me. Not ship their jobs to China and Mexico or W letting Mexican truck drivers now compete with our truck drivers in the USA. They can't even read the signs. They do not drive by the same rules.

I feel it is morally right to have border protection and to protect the USA. McCain is part of Bush/Cheney.

jefelump · 07-04-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

I do not live like McCain, W, Rumsfield, Cheney, so i won't be votting for them. Take the tax payers money to fund the middle east as you strip the American people out of jobs. No, this is not the American way. I do not find any faith and values in borrowing money from China and them funding us. I have faith in my American people and they are the ones i feel should have jobs. This is values to me. Not ship their jobs to China and Mexico or W letting Mexican truck drivers now compete with our truck drivers in the USA. They can't even read the signs. They do not drive by the same rules.

I feel it is morally right to have border protection and to protect the USA. McCain is part of Bush/Cheney.

Your response has nothing at all to do with my question. Cindy McCain (just like Teresa Heinz Kerry 4 yours ago) has nothing at all to do with the current administration. If she has credit cards, big deal. I bet the bank hasn't foreclosed on her house. So back to my question.... how many credit cards do YOU have? I have 1, a corporate card my employer requires me to use for business travel.

wmbwinn · 07-04-2008, 03:01 PM

Janet, you and I are friends from back in the Yahoo message board days. I try to avoid your political posts to a large degree out of friendship. But, this is getting crazy.

People don't get credit cards with limits of 750K unless they have a credit pattern of PAYING the principle and interest back on those credit arrangements. It is silly to state that the pattern of using credit to purchase (in the Cheney family) is related to the financial irresponsibility of the CONGRESS OF THE USA (not the presidential/executive branch administration).

Further, lets examine the Cheney family from a different perspective:
How many people are employed by such spending habits? How many people working in the economy of the USA benefitted from that spending?

Why do so many Americans want to change our economic system to mirror Canada and Europe's systems of constitutional socialisms? You do know that you are free to imigrate there? They are our allies and friends so you can denounce your US citizenship and move to Canada.

wmbwinn · 07-04-2008, 03:07 PM

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a
member of Congress.. But I repeat myself."

--Mark Twain

Congress is the one with the spending problem and the constitutional power to do something about it...

They don't need to tax more. They need to spend less.

Janett_Reno · 07-04-2008, 03:48 PM

First of all, i will never leave the country i love. As soon as Obama get's in or when Bill was in, you know you are free to move to the middle east or Canada also. I am staying right here.

That is the difference between a neocon and other parties. Neocons believe in printing more money to bail out the savings and loans, banks, ford, gm, failing housing market and more to stimulate the economy. Republicans like Greenspan says this is a bad idea, to print up more money you do not have and or borrow it from China to bail out people and things that the neocons helped get in this shape. Greenspan says let the chips fall where they may. If you print more money, if you borrow and are a slave to China you do not solve the problem and you are prolonging the problem and trying to make two wrongs a right.

The same thing is happening in Iraq and they are now wanting to invade Iran and wanting the tax payers money to invade, plus borrow more from China to do so. Most Americans do not let each child in his or her family charge up 50 grand a month on there credit card. Why doesn't the neocons pump this money into invading Iran, Syria, Iraq and use there money and let them have this investment and let the other Americans invest in the USA?

So it helps to give us 325.00 to fill up our tanks twice as gas goes to $5.00 a gallon? Is this really fixing the gas/oil problem? Borrowing more money from China and us not selling anything to China but them flooding our grocery shelfs and our country with China goods is not creating more jobs for Americans. The neocons have no plan for Iraq but to invade Iran. The neocons do not care about the economy and our borders.

So in the end, i will vote for Obama like many republicans i know. I and republicans as well as independents will come out in droves to elect Obama. I will not invest my money in the middle east, canada and as soon as Obama is elected you also have the right to move to the middle east or canada.

A neocon wants to spend his or way out of inflation and recession or borrow money on more credit cards to pay credit cards off. This is a dunce and ask Greenspan if this is how you run an economy. This is why many republicans are flocking to Obama and the no ending to the middle east policy they have us in.

It is just the difference between the neocon party, democrat, republican and independent parties. Just like a big beef with republicans and the neocons, they feel it is very wrong in taxing the rich and more taxes should fall on the porr and middle class. As Obama said he would put more taxes on people making 250 thousand a year and less on ones making less than 250 thousand a year and seniors making i think less than 50 grand pay not much or no taxes. The neocons and republicans alike do not like this and the neocons said their policy was give lots bigger tax breaks to exon/mobile and the oil companies. This is what McCain is saying he would do. The Democrats feel the oil companies are making enough and do not need more tax breaks than what they are getting.

So this is other differences between republicans, neocons and democrats. Cindy McCain and big spending is just more of the same big spending we have had in the last 8 years. Did the last 8 yeras stimulate the economy? Did the last 8 years produce one of the greastest presidents and adm's ever? Only time will tell but ask alot of republicans and democrats and even independents on how great they feel this adm and pres did. I feel the Americans are very eager to vote for a change and kick the big spenders out.

dude1394 · 07-04-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

I do not live like McCain, W, Rumsfield, Cheney, so i won't be votting for them. Take the tax payers money to fund the middle east as you strip the American people out of jobs. No, this is not the American way. I do not find any faith and values in borrowing money from China and them funding us. I have faith in my American people and they are the ones i feel should have jobs. This is values to me. Not ship their jobs to China and Mexico or W letting Mexican truck drivers now compete with our truck drivers in the USA. They can't even read the signs. They do not drive by the same rules.

I feel it is morally right to have border protection and to protect the USA. McCain is part of Bush/Cheney.

But you DO live like Barack Hussein Obama..or Clinton or Gore (In the past year, Gore’s home burned through 213,210 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity, enough to power 232 average American households for a month. )?

jefelump · 07-04-2008, 04:21 PM

Janet, you still haven't answered my question. You railed on Cindy McCain for her credit cards. How many do you have?

dude1394 · 07-04-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

Cindy McCain and big spending is just more of the same big spending we have had in the last 8 years. Did the last 8 yeras stimulate the economy? Did the last 8 years produce one of the greastest presidents and adm's ever? Only time will tell but ask alot of republicans and democrats and even independents on how great they feel this adm and pres did. I feel the Americans are very eager to vote for a change and kick the big spenders out.

How does hillary's 30million borrowing rate?

And brotha' you ain't seen nothing like spending yet. Barack Obama Hussein has already promised close to 1 trillion in new spending. Try not to let your head hurt with data.

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-...ding-plan.html

Quote:

What does "change" cost? About a quarter of a trillion bucks a year, according to Barack Obama. But first, this: "I wish Obama would go further than that, but it's a start," was the reaction of one DailyKos poster to Barack Obama's economic plan unveiled yesterday in a campaign appearance in Janesville, Wis. Some hard-core liberals may be underwhelmed by the scope of Obama's agenda—after all, there's no single-payer healthcare plan or Scandinavian-style "flexicurity" worker benefits program in the mix—but my guess is that the average person would find it all pretty aggressive. Here are the priciest parts:

* A $65 billion-a-year health plan
* $15 billion in green energy spending
* $85 billion in tax cuts and credits
* A $25 billion-a-year increase in foreign aid
* $18 billion a year in education spending
* $3.5 billion for a national service plan

Put it all together, and we are talking about a $200 billon plan, $800 billion over four years. And that does not even include fixing the alternative minimum tax, a $50 billion-a-year item that will assuredly get passed. A few thoughts:

wmbwinn · 07-04-2008, 05:28 PM

you still have made a truly ridiculous leap. You started pointing out that the Cheney family is rich and spends a lot of money. Plastic is safer and more convenient so I'm not surprised that they use a credit card (and pay it off every month).

Why the ridiculous leap from Cheney to attack the Bush administration?

Why the failure to recognize that fiscal policy is the power of Congress, not the presidency?

Why do you think that the administration or any other part of our government borrows money on credit cards? Beyond spending accounts for hotels, food, gas, etc., I'm sure that your notion is crazy.

The credit extended to the USA to manage the budget of Congress comes from the international banking community primarily. There is some pressure from government heads to demand that the international banking industry continues to extend the loans.
Those credit arrangements are nothing like a credit card.

And, lastly: why do you think Obama is going to improve the federal deficit picture? He wants to grow the size of the government programs at a rate not seen since the Progressive movement in the Great Depression Era and thereafter. He wants to raise tax rates massively to offset that spending goal.

Take a deep breath and try to answer these questions.

dude1394 · 07-04-2008, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

you still have made a truly ridiculous leap.
Take a deep breath and try to answer these questions.

All I can say is don't hold your breath. But I'll help janet..

Neo-con! Halliburton! Neo-con! Blood for Oil! Neo-Con......er...Neo-Con.

That should just about do it.

Janett_Reno · 07-04-2008, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

But you DO live like Barack Hussein Obama..or Clinton or Gore (In the past year, Gore’s home burned through 213,210 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity, enough to power 232 average American households for a month. )?

His kids do not have a 50 thousand a month credit card. He balanced a budget and he did not live off credit cards. China was a slave to the usa when he was in office. We had clean air and alot cleaner water ways when he was in office and most of all, people had jobs and you was not forced to go to the middle east to get a job.

Janett_Reno · 07-04-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

How does hillary's 30million borrowing rate?

And brotha' you ain't seen nothing like spending yet. Barack Obama Hussein has already promised close to 1 trillion in new spending. Try not to let your head hurt with data.

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-...ding-plan.html

Hillary Clinton spent her money and peoplethat backed her in the good ole usa. Not China, Mexico and the middle east. She also did not borrow her money from China.

Janett_Reno · 07-04-2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

you still have made a truly ridiculous leap. You started pointing out that the Cheney family is rich and spends a lot of money. Plastic is safer and more convenient so I'm not surprised that they use a credit card (and pay it off every month).

Why the ridiculous leap from Cheney to attack the Bush administration?

Why the failure to recognize that fiscal policy is the power of Congress, not the presidency?

Why do you think that the administration or any other part of our government borrows money on credit cards? Beyond spending accounts for hotels, food, gas, etc., I'm sure that your notion is crazy.

The credit extended to the USA to manage the budget of Congress comes from the international banking community primarily. There is some pressure from government heads to demand that the international banking industry continues to extend the loans.
Those credit arrangements are nothing like a credit card.

And, lastly: why do you think Obama is going to improve the federal deficit picture? He wants to grow the size of the government programs at a rate not seen since the Progressive movement in the Great Depression Era and thereafter. He wants to raise tax rates massively to offset that spending goal.

Take a deep breath and try to answer these questions.

Who run the pres, congress and senate for six straight years? Republicans. Who said wrecked our country and sold us out? Greenspan said this adm and what he said was worse than Bush, Cheney and Rams was Republicans that give them and passed every bill sent down the line. That they did not think of their childrens future or look at tomorrow but line those pockets today. Why do you think Chuck Hagel, Pat Buchanan, John Warner, Richard Lugar and Colin Powell has distanced themselfs from the Republican party and why are Republicans dropping out of office like never before? Why has people like Scott turned on the adm he worked for. Why do Republicans think Hillary Clinton is more conservative than John McCain?

The country is in the shape it's in because the Re4publican senate and congree for 6 straight years passed all Cheney/Bush bills. Just wait and see who is right in the end and you will see people like Newt, Hagel, Greenspan, Warner and Lugar was very much smarter than this adm and they were the heart of the republican party. Even Powell is turning to Obama.

dude1394 · 07-04-2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

His kids do not have a 50 thousand a month credit card. He balanced a budget and he did not live off credit cards. China was a slave to the usa when he was in office. We had clean air and alot cleaner water ways when he was in office and most of all, people had jobs and you was not forced to go to the middle east to get a job.

Who's "he", bubba? He, the last of the free-trade democrats Or maybe he's a neo-con? Clinton's wife is 20million in debt, you don't think gore uses credit when he's jetting around the world? You think he carries around 50k or so? Ridiculous

China was a "slave" the the USA? You somehow think that china/india trade has been bad for the world? YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!

The US through it's trading policies has ushered in a HUGE increase in prosperity all around the world. You being the luddite that you are somehow think this is bad. Who are you listening to Lou Dobbs? You and he both are idiots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...l)_growth_rate

dude1394 · 07-04-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

Hillary Clinton spent her money and peoplethat backed her in the good ole usa. Not China, Mexico and the middle east. She also did not borrow her money from China.

Oh really, who do you think made those computers that folks created ads with? Who do you think manufactured much of components that she used?

Get back in your cave with Lou Dobbs.

What makes you think she didn't borrow her money from china? Did she borrow it from a bank, you don't think the bank had chinese investments?

Get back in your cave with Lou Dobbs.

dude1394 · 07-04-2008, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

that give them and passed every bill sent down the line.

Boy you are in fantasy land. Let me help you, the guvment spent that money...

How has it changed since the democrats got in power? Have you seen the earmarks eliminated? Have you seen the democrats provide a balanced budget?

Janet...it's okay to be naive, but it's quite another to put your hands in your ears and hum so that facts don't intrude upon your fantasy.

Koskids are over that away yucking it up because someone died recently. They all agree with you over there.

Here's a little analysis of the democrat budget balancing work.
http://www.heritage.org/research/budget/bg2081.cfm

Quote:

The Democratic Congress's 2008 Budget: A Tax and Spending Spree
by Brian M. Riedl
Backgrounder #2081

In January, a Democratic congressional majority was sworn in that was elected in part by promising fiscal responsibility. The Democrats specifically pledged to limit spending increases and employ pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) budgeting to keep the budget deficit in check.

As their first year moves toward a close, it has become clear that the members of this majority have failed to live up to their promises.

Quote:

In just 10 months, Congress has passed legislation that would increase federal spending by a combined $454 billion over 10 years and raise taxes and fees by $98 billion over 10 years and has passed a budget resolution that would bring the tax increase to a projected $2.7 trillion.[1]

Despite the Democrats' PAYGO pledge of no new deficit spending, legislation enacted thus far has increased spending much faster than taxes, resulting in an additional $356 billion in deficit spending. Only their budget blueprint, which assumes repeal of nearly all of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, would pay for all of their new spending.

wmbwinn · 07-04-2008, 06:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmbwinn
you still have made a truly ridiculous leap. You started pointing out that the Cheney family is rich and spends a lot of money. Plastic is safer and more convenient so I'm not surprised that they use a credit card (and pay it off every month).

Why the ridiculous leap from Cheney to attack the Bush administration?

Why the failure to recognize that fiscal policy is the power of Congress, not the presidency?

Why do you think that the administration or any other part of our government borrows money on credit cards? Beyond spending accounts for hotels, food, gas, etc., I'm sure that your notion is crazy.

The credit extended to the USA to manage the budget of Congress comes from the international banking community primarily. There is some pressure from government heads to demand that the international banking industry continues to extend the loans.
Those credit arrangements are nothing like a credit card.

And, lastly: why do you think Obama is going to improve the federal deficit picture? He wants to grow the size of the government programs at a rate not seen since the Progressive movement in the Great Depression Era and thereafter. He wants to raise tax rates massively to offset that spending goal.

Take a deep breath and try to answer these questions.

________________________________

Janet:

"Who run the pres, congress and senate for six straight years? Republicans. Who said wrecked our country and sold us out? Greenspan said this adm and what he said was worse than Bush, Cheney and Rams was Republicans that give them and passed every bill sent down the line. That they did not think of their childrens future or look at tomorrow but line those pockets today. Why do you think Chuck Hagel, Pat Buchanan, John Warner, Richard Lugar and Colin Powell has distanced themselfs from the Republican party and why are Republicans dropping out of office like never before? Why has people like Scott turned on the adm he worked for. Why do Republicans think Hillary Clinton is more conservative than John McCain?

The country is in the shape it's in because the Re4publican senate and congree for 6 straight years passed all Cheney/Bush bills. Just wait and see who is right in the end and you will see people like Newt, Hagel, Greenspan, Warner and Lugar was very much smarter than this adm and they were the heart of the republican party. Even Powell is turning to Obama."

---------------------------------

1)You skipped the first question about how you are trying to link the wealth of the Cheney family and their spending habits to the current fiscal policy of the USA
2)I now understand that when you rant about "the administration" that you are actually referring to the entire Republican party in the Congress and Executive Branch. That makes your rant a bit more logical.

Now, what bills did Bush "send down the line"? I recall the drug/pharmacy benefit with Medicare. Now, that is the sort of bill that usually is associated with Democrats. So, I hope you don't mind an evidence that the Republican party has a heart???

Now, the other "bills that Bush [and the administration] sent down the line" were the military support bills. Even the Democrats supported those eventually. They postured and complained a lot and tried to attach greater spending in pork bill attachments. Bush vetoed those spending bills (which were far larger than what he asked for). Then the Congress passed bills that did not contain the pork add on amendments.

So, I would summarize the "administration" effects on increasing the expenditures of our government to:
A)Drug benefit with Medicare
B)Afghanistan and Iraq

Do you and I agree on this?

I will agree that a great number of Republicans are quite annoyed with the increased size of government and the out of control spending that the Republicans have been involved with. The Republican party has done quite an impersonation of the usual Democrat party. I will agree that a great many big names in the Republican party are not at all happy with the Republican Party.

I am not happy with the Republican party.

3)you made no mention of credit cards anymore. that might be an improvement. perhaps you understand that the credit card issue you were upset about is not an issue in fact.

4)You made no defense of Obama. You did not say anything about Obama's plans to greatly increase government spending and greatly increase taxation.

Janett_Reno · 07-04-2008, 07:01 PM

As far as growing the economy and getting us out of debt. I have heard all this before when Bill Clinton was attacked and said he would be terrible. Anyone reading any of this message boards i want you to think of one thing that is very imporatnt.

It will be said Obama will take away your guns, fishing poles, raise your taxes, and i won't go into the gay's, abortion and etc but do not be fooled because Larry Craig and David Vitter are Republicans and just who is for gay's and abortion and who isn't? Ask McCain and Rudy and see where they stand. Now one thing everyone should remember.

Look what Bill Clinton and Al Gore did. Simply amazing and it is being said in here, you can't grow the economy and get out of debt by a Democrat and even healthcare can't be achieved. Look what the great Bill Clinton did and it has never been anything like it in the history of the great USA. He took us from credit card use and charging and bad in debt to a huge surplus. When the neocons got in they spent that money and kept on borrowing then and now from China. Look where we was and look where they took us. If you are happy with the last 7 years, by all means support McCain because he will be just what we have now and if you do not like this adm, then you have Bob Barr and Obama choices. Never say never because when never was said to an unknown Bill Clinton and Al Gore, look where they took this great country and put us on top. They did not sell out to China and both was very good on foreign policy and they knew economics.

Do you want China and credit cards to grow the economy? Think about that people that are on the fence. This is this adm and McCains way. Plus tax the tax payers money and fund middle eastern wars. The real war is Afganastan and Bin Laden. So it is said in here gov can't grow the economy and gov can't get us out of debt. Now you look what this adm and McCain has us in and you compare it to Clinton and Gore.

I have more news, my friend that was rich under Clinton. He is a republican and he builds very expensive houses along with other good jobs told someone one day(just before Bush got in), i wish Bill Clinton could run again and keep him for 16 years because i have more money and business now than i ever had. Other day i saw him and he has lost everything he had. His job now, mowing yards. Changed his phone number as he and his family are having a hard time paying bills(will never pay(can't)) that he played the same game as this adm did. Borrow and borrow and the banks or China will never call in the loans.

Now here is another big time republican that has had more money than most will ever see in here and now is broke. Now you go explain to him that Bush and McCain is his man. Go tell him Bill Clinton did nothing and just see where this republican will tell you to get off at.

So do not try to tell me our borders can't be protected, don't tell me this adm is the model of faith and values and 50 thousand dollar a month credit cards to each one of your kids is values. Nope, i don't believe it, so don't go there. Don't tell me about tx dollars when this adm has every house hold in the great usa under about 15 thousand dollars so far in tax dollars charged to each house hold in the usa. They do not even have a plan in Iraq. It sounds like the plan is Iran. Don't tell me you can't balance a budget and get a country out of debt because i have seen it with my own two eyes and his name was Bill Clinton. He did not have China and slave labor to bail him out. Again that isn't faith and values to me. Don't tell me that we have to live in recession, inflation and to be able to get a job we have to go to Mexico, China or the middle east. I have seen jobs in the great usa. I can make a list a mile long and i'll finish with this,,,,

You are not going to scare the voters of the great usa with he is a black man, he is a democrat, taxes, guns and fishing poles, gays, abortion and the terrorist are comming. Come with substance or stay home with the weak stuff. Don't come inside with anything weak, bring some substance.

What was said that couldn't be done was done with Bill Clinton. A democrat can't do it? Thing again, one has already done it and compare him to this adm. No comparrison. Now, let's see who the voters pick.

Janett_Reno · 07-04-2008, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Boy you are in fantasy land. Let me help you, the guvment spent that money...

How has it changed since the democrats got in power? Have you seen the earmarks eliminated? Have you seen the democrats provide a balanced budget?

Janet...it's okay to be naive, but it's quite another to put your hands in your ears and hum so that facts don't intrude upon your fantasy.

Koskids are over that away yucking it up because someone died recently. They all agree with you over there.

Here's a little analysis of the democrat budget balancing work.
http://www.heritage.org/research/budget/bg2081.cfm

You saw what happened last time as republicans in both senate and congress got creamed. Why? Ask Newt. Ever heard of him. Go ask Buchanan, Lugar, Warner, Hagel and Greenspan and why you are at it, ask Colin Powell. Remember Mitch McConnell? He is one person like Ted Kennedy that was never suppose to get beat and some no name nobody democrat is nipping at his heels. He is less than 10 points down to McConnell. Who has ever heard of MT voting for a Democrat.

So as you spew and call names and try to win on hate, just sit back and enjoy more democrats winning senate, congress seats and the pres just because neocons like you won't and refuse to listen to Newt and people with substance. You will see in the up comming election. Just sit back and enjoy and i will be the first to remind you dude.

wmbwinn · 07-04-2008, 07:25 PM

Glad you like Newt Gingrich. I do also.

I don't understand why you keep talking about China. There is nothing different with China in the 12 years of Bush the Dad and Bush the son and the 8 years of Bill Clinton. Our trade policy hasn't changed with China. That is a constant, not something that Bush the son somehow changed to our detriment.

Do you agree that Obama is going to increase taxation?
Do you agree that Obama is going to increase spending and extend the current social programs and create new ones?

If Obama presides over a time where the budget is again balanced, it will happen because the tax rate goes way up. Obama is not going to control spending so the only way to balance is to increase taxes.

The primary reason Bill Clinton had a balanced budget and GW Bush doesn't is 911, Afghanistan, HomeLand Security, and Iraq.

Bill had it easy and was able to preside over an easy time that included the Stock Market pre-bubble Tech Stock expansion where the economy was roses and everything was beautiful.

It is naieve to credit Bill for that. He just served as president during an easy time period.

Janett_Reno · 07-04-2008, 07:27 PM

We must get someone smart in office again and do the things like Clinton did with economics. Big time spenders is hurting us. If we invade Iran, Syria and stay in Iraq for the next 100 years it will be nothing but problems. They are trying to flock to the usa in record numbers and the Iraqi people want out.

Spending our way out of what this adm has us in is not the right way. This country needs jobs again and they need them in the usa. We need someone that can get close to balancing a budget.

As far as Democrats and Republicans passing bills they shouldn't have, i agree many have done bad by passing bills they shouldn't. Obama, Paul, Dennis K reminds the public alot about this. Going along with anything to stay in the popularity contest. That is wrong alot of times in politics. Now people are breaking away and mainly republicans from this adm. Not McCain and not Libberman.

This adm thinks Israel, Syria, Iraq, Iran, China, Saudi and other places are most important and i feel our economy, infrastructure and that includes broders, getting off big oil and not tied down to Saudi and stop borrowing from China because i do not feel this is the right way. I also think eductaion, healthcare and jobs are very important. These are things this adm cares less about and even McCain says he knows nothing about economics.

I am one that doesn't want 4 more years like the last 8 because i feel that is taking us in the wrong direction as this adm tries to tie canada, mexico and other in with us. I am proud to be just usa. They also are trying to change the middle east and do you think they can do this? As far as military action, Afganastan was where we need to be and as people come after us in pakistan, we need to go back after them and no good buddy deals under the table. Bin Laden and Al Queda is our battle we need to be in. Remember, it was no Al Queda in Iraq. It was no Laden in Iraq.

I tie McCain in with big spenders, you know like Cheney, Rumsfield and W Bush. I think that is the wrong way and i feel we need a pres to care for the great usa and not the middle east.

Janett_Reno · 07-04-2008, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

Glad you like Newt Gingrich. I do also.

I don't understand why you keep talking about China. There is nothing different with China in the 12 years of Bush the Dad and Bush the son and the 8 years of Bill Clinton. Our trade policy hasn't changed with China. That is a constant, not something that Bush the son somehow changed to our detriment.

Why be a big spender and have China as your bank? Why give China most of our jobs and reward them? Why not find another way and cut back on the spending. Invading Iran isn't going to help and will cost more and push oil up over 200.00 a barrel. When we do this it helps all the middle eastern countries get richer. If Iran needs dealing with, let us with many other countries deal with them. Not us go alone. This was the cowboy way and it don't work.

Do you agree that Obama is going to increase taxation?

Probably. I don't think he will on the poor, middle class and seniors. Something must be done, look where we are headed. It isn't pretty as Ford and GM hold on by a thread. Do we really want to buy a Ford and Chevey from China? Look at who has funded a war in Iraq. The American people.

Do you agree that Obama is going to increase spending and extend the current social programs and create new ones?

Look at the money this adm is trowing away in Iraq. For what reason? To make Iran stronger. Doesn't make any sense and tax payers pay for this. This is another huge reason gas is as high as it is. If we wasn't in Iraq and throwing money around in the middle east you could spend money at home. This is one reason this adm is letting our infrastructure go down. This is not good. You can increase spending when done the right way and when Americans have jobs and pouring money back into our economy. Look what Bill Clinton did. As far as the social programs, i feel he will get tougher where it needs to be and possibly create new ones. It is no money flowing here and people are not buying cars, homes, because when people do not have jobs and they are losing benefits and health insurance, they can't spend. They are being forced to go into the military or flip burgers at Mickey D's. The problem is we are spending in the wrong places and trying to grow the economy in the middle east as we let ours go.

If Obama presides over a time where the budget is again balanced, it will happen because the tax rate goes way up. Obama is not going to control spending so the only way to balance is to increase taxes.

Something has to be done. It is runaway budget now and if he increases or decreases, i am for balanced budget and if we spend, let's spend on our people, infrastructure and jobs in the usa. Not on people that don't care about us.
Also, let me know how McCain is going to balance the budget? Do you feel Cheney and Bush are doing a good job on balacing a budget? I know some like dude feel charging and getting in debt is good but i know, it isn't. If you are in debt and in big debt, trust me, you will find out how bad it is, sooner than later. The primary reason Bill Clinton had a balanced budget and GW Bush doesn't is 911, Afghanistan, HomeLand Security, and Iraq.

This is a cop out. Be like Newt and take responsability and not blame others. When kareem went out did they quit? Did they say we lose because we have no center. The point guard played some center and went on toi win and they made no excuses. You play the hand you are delt and you either make good or play it like a dunce. Let's face it, W, Chains and McCain doesn't know economics.

Bill had it easy and was able to preside over an easy time that included the Stock Market pre-bubble Tech Stock expansion where the economy was roses and everything was beautiful.

It is naieve to credit Bill for that. He just served as president during an easy time period.

All a cop out. He did what this adm can't and what Mccain can't do.

Janett_Reno · 07-04-2008, 08:46 PM

wm, it was Bill's fault becuase he had sex with Monica. It wasn't her fault and it wasn't Cheney's fault. It wasn't Edwards fault because Larry Craig was wanting sex in public bathrooms, with strangers with men. It wasn't Libberman's fault that Vitter liked having sex with prostitutes and it is not McCain's fault that his c manager in FL offered a male cop 20.00 for sex in a public park.

People do good and people do bad. We all make mistakes and we all sin but don't blame others for the faults we have or others faults. Be like Newt, stand for something and take responsibility.

In the end wm, this adm feels like Israel and the middle east is number one policy. This is why Libberman is in love with Bush and Cheney. Not Bin Laden, not our economy, not gas and oil, not healthcare, not jobs or not borders and infrastructure.

I also do not like how this adm or how McCain as a republican is going to or trying to grow our economy. I like Bill Clinton's way the best. I feel economy is number one. I also feel like Afganastan and getting Bin Laden is important.

That is why i liked Hillary so good as i felt as she would grow the economy like Bill did but i also feel like Obama is close in alot of things Bill and Hillary stand for and how they think and would run the country. I do not like how Bush/Cheney is growing our economy or how McCain would and i also do not like the run away spending under this adm.

These are huge issues for me and why i am votting Obama all the way. I do not think we can stand 4 more years like the past 7 1/2 years.

wmbwinn · 07-05-2008, 12:08 AM

Do you agree that Obama is going to increase taxation?

Probably. I don't think he will on the poor, middle class and seniors. Something must be done, look where we are headed. It isn't pretty as Ford and GM hold on by a thread. Do we really want to buy a Ford and Chevey from China? Look at who has funded a war in Iraq. The American people.
___________-

Janet, if Obama increases taxes "on the wealthy", then Ford and Chevy are going to face a larger tax burden. That will definitely move more of the Ford and Chevy company outside of the USA.

It is more complicated that what you are proposing.

wmbwinn · 07-05-2008, 12:11 AM

I don't understand why you keep talking about China. There is nothing different with China in the 12 years of Bush the Dad and Bush the son and the 8 years of Bill Clinton. Our trade policy hasn't changed with China. That is a constant, not something that Bush the son somehow changed to our detriment.

Why be a big spender and have China as your bank? Why give China most of our jobs and reward them? Why not find another way and cut back on the spending. Invading Iran isn't going to help and will cost more and push oil up over 200.00 a barrel. When we do this it helps all the middle eastern countries get richer. If Iran needs dealing with, let us with many other countries deal with them. Not us go alone. This was the cowboy way and it don't work.
__________________________

There are many forces that have shifted jobs to China and Indonesia and India and other places. They are not nearly as simple as you are suggesting again.

And, again, if taxes go up on Corporate America, then more of those jobs are going elsewhere.

The more business that Ford and Chevy do in China, the less tax they pay. The more they do in China, the less they pay for employees and employee benefits.

The way to deal with China is to insist on truly tariff free, non protectionist (on their part) open trade. We have to work on that.

But, Obama is going to make this worse with increased taxes.

wmbwinn · 07-05-2008, 12:15 AM

Do you agree that Obama is going to increase spending and extend the current social programs and create new ones?

Look at the money this adm is trowing away in Iraq. For what reason? To make Iran stronger. Doesn't make any sense and tax payers pay for this. This is another huge reason gas is as high as it is. If we wasn't in Iraq and throwing money around in the middle east you could spend money at home. This is one reason this adm is letting our infrastructure go down. This is not good. You can increase spending when done the right way and when Americans have jobs and pouring money back into our economy. Look what Bill Clinton did. As far as the social programs, i feel he will get tougher where it needs to be and possibly create new ones. It is no money flowing here and people are not buying cars, homes, because when people do not have jobs and they are losing benefits and health insurance, they can't spend. They are being forced to go into the military or flip burgers at Mickey D's. The problem is we are spending in the wrong places and trying to grow the economy in the middle east as we let ours go.

-----------------------

Basically, your answer is "yes". Obama is going to increase the size of government and spend more money in our nation with social programs.

I am not entirely opposed to this. I am not a Libertarian.

There are many good ways for government to be involved. There are more wasteful and harmful ways to be involved.

I prefer that the States grow in power while the Fed shrinks in power. If the Fed wanted to increase the money it spent BY SENDING THE MONEY TO THE STATES and saying, here is the money: take it and take care of the people in your districts in the way that best fits your districts. If they shifted to that strategy, I'd be really happy about that.

That is not something either party is involved with right now. The old "State's rights" political movement is pretty much dead and its death is sad to me.

wmbwinn · 07-05-2008, 12:18 AM

The primary reason Bill Clinton had a balanced budget and GW Bush doesn't is 911, Afghanistan, HomeLand Security, and Iraq.

This is a cop out. Be like Newt and take responsability and not blame others. When kareem went out did they quit? Did they say we lose because we have no center. The point guard played some center and went on toi win and they made no excuses. You play the hand you are delt and you either make good or play it like a dunce. Let's face it, W, Chains and McCain doesn't know economics.

Bill had it easy and was able to preside over an easy time that included the Stock Market pre-bubble Tech Stock expansion where the economy was roses and everything was beautiful.

It is naieve to credit Bill for that. He just served as president during an easy time period.

All a cop out. He did what this adm can't and what Mccain can't do.

___________________________

It is not a "cop out". You have to spend more money on the military and defense in times like this. War is always expensive. War has always meant sacrificing other programs and priorities.

It is not, in my opinion, bad to go into deficit spending to manage national security (war).

wmbwinn · 07-05-2008, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

wm, it was Bill's fault becuase he had sex with Monica. It wasn't her fault and it wasn't Cheney's fault. It wasn't Edwards fault because Larry Craig was wanting sex in public bathrooms, with strangers with men. It wasn't Libberman's fault that Vitter liked having sex with prostitutes and it is not McCain's fault that his c manager in FL offered a male cop 20.00 for sex in a public park.

People do good and people do bad. We all make mistakes and we all sin but don't blame others for the faults we have or others faults. Be like Newt, stand for something and take responsibility.

In the end wm, this adm feels like Israel and the middle east is number one policy. This is why Libberman is in love with Bush and Cheney. Not Bin Laden, not our economy, not gas and oil, not healthcare, not jobs or not borders and infrastructure.

I also do not like how this adm or how McCain as a republican is going to or trying to grow our economy. I like Bill Clinton's way the best. I feel economy is number one. I also feel like Afganastan and getting Bin Laden is important.

That is why i liked Hillary so good as i felt as she would grow the economy like Bill did but i also feel like Obama is close in alot of things Bill and Hillary stand for and how they think and would run the country. I do not like how Bush/Cheney is growing our economy or how McCain would and i also do not like the run away spending under this adm.

These are huge issues for me and why i am votting Obama all the way. I do not think we can stand 4 more years like the past 7 1/2 years.

-----------------\

I know you will vote for Obama. Many others will. I don't think you understand everything you have pointed out as reasons to vote for Obama. I think you will find that Obama will make these things worse.

But, I am sure that Obama will win. So, we don't have to discuss theories. We will see soon enough who is right.

And, again, Janet: I don't dislike you. I am not trying to pick on you.

I actually think that I understand you and your positions.

FishForLunch · 07-05-2008, 06:42 AM

Janett is just following democrats talking points, they are trying to link everything McCain and his Family do to the current administration. Soon they will target his kids.

Janett_Reno · 07-05-2008, 02:45 PM

McCain is part of Bush and Cheney. Nothing wrong in that at all. It is many that love Bush/Cheney and the policy they are following. Again i point out, Israel and the middle east is number one on the agenda. I feel we should look out for the usa and our economy.

I also like how Bill Clinton grew our economy and i like how Bill Clinton, a Democrat could balance a budget and i do not like the way these republicans spend every penny they can. They either print money they do not have forcing the dollar down to new lows or they borrow more money from China.

You ask many republicans, independents and democrats were they better off and was the country safer with Bill Clinton or George W Bush. This is your choices in the next election. Do you want 4 more years of the past 7 1/2 or do you like how foreign policy, economy, and jobs when Clinton was president? I agree, this adm has things, in one of the worst messes we have ever seen and it will take along time of the next 4 years to get back on the right track but we will under Obama. If he does or if he doesn't, no excuses. He will be judged on what he does not excuses saying W had the country in the worst shape it has ever been in. We all know this. No excuses, let's turn it around.

One other thing. I DON'T MAKE EXCUSES like a republican. You make do what you have and you do good or you do bad. Do i have an excuse why the Lakers lost to Boston? Truth is known, James Posey and the bigs down low said no to one of the greatest ever in Kobe and said you will not beat us. After we spanked Miami bad, Riley said no more layups, knock them to the floor and let Wade go 1 on 5. No excuses on my part, we couldn't stop it. Any excuse why Clinton had his deal with Monica? No excuse, he chose to. Was he one of the greatest pres ever and we had a great economy, great jobs, balanced a budget and had many, many rich people in the usa. Yes, he was one of the best.

Let's get down to George W Bush. He will go down as one of the worst ever and i won't go down about a list of 1,000 things bad and again no excuses. I do not want to hear excuses for him, Rumsfield, Cheney, Ashcroft, and the rest and do you think Scott, Colin Powell and all the others that got out are making excuses for him and the adm? No. I know it is some in here that think he is one of the greatest pres ever and McCain can follow right with him and Cheney but again i don't feel he was a very good pres but then again i am one that loves my country, cares about our economy, jobs and infrastructure. This is not a priority for the neocon republicans.

We have to get back to the priorities that makes us rich and strong where we prosper.

dude1394 · 07-05-2008, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

One other thing. I DON'T MAKE EXCUSES like a republican. You make do what you have and you do good or you do bad. Do i have an excuse why the Lakers lost to Boston? Truth is known, James Posey and the bigs down low said no to one of the greatest ever in Kobe and said you will not beat us. After we spanked Miami bad, Riley said no more layups, knock them to the floor and let Wade go 1 on 5. No excuses on my part, we couldn't stop it. Any excuse why Clinton had his deal with Monica? No excuse, he chose to. Was he one of the greatest pres ever and we had a great economy, great jobs, balanced a budget and had many, many rich people in the usa. Yes, he was one of the best.

Ramblings of a two-year old.