Learning From The Master - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

MavsFanFinley · 12-07-2003, 11:20 PM

Learning from the master (12/8)
Clippers' Dunleavy among coaches influenced by Nelson

Sunday, December 7, 2003
By CHUCK CARLTON / The Dallas Morning News

Mike Dunleavy's background screams basketball lifer, the hard-working New York gym rat who moved into a successful coaching career.

Without prodding from Mavericks coach Don Nelson, Dunleavy could be checking the bond futures on Wall Street today instead of trying to lead the Los Angeles Clippers to respectability.

In the process, Dunleavy became part of the unofficial Nellie alumni, a group that either played for Nelson or worked under him before gaining prominence.

The group also includes San Antonio coach Gregg Popovich, who has won two NBA titles; Houston's Jeff Van Gundy; and successful college coach Rick Majerus of Utah.

Popovich said coaching under Nelson is a great learning experience for a young coach. Nelson is one victory behind Pat Riley (1,110) for second place on the all-time coaching wins list, and is nearing 3,000 games combined as a player and a coach at 2,996.

"Nellie is a consummate manipulator of the game," Popovich said. "He understands the rules, he understands pro athletes, he knows how to mix and match these guys, he knows how to take advantage of things.

"And he's a heck of a lot of fun to be around at the same time. In the two years I was with him, I loved it. We had a great time."

Van Gundy, who replaced Nelson with the New York Knicks, remembers Nelson letting him run the defense as an assistant and never pointing fingers after losses.

"Nellie is very complimentary," Van Gundy said. "On those nights we couldn't stop anybody, he never said it was me. So I appreciate the compliment. I learned more from him than he did from me."

Dunleavy learned that he wanted to stay in basketball, after a period of uncertainty.

He retired following a 10-year playing career in 1985 because of a back injury and went to work in New York's financial industry.

But he kept in touch with Nelson, his coach the final two seasons in Milwaukee. Dunleavy still followed the game. The two would talk regularly, and Dunleavy would see Nelson when the Bucks came to town.

"He told me, 'You're wasting your time on Wall Street. You ought to coach. Why don't you come work for me?' "

Dunleavy hesitated. He worried about his back, and about travel. Two years later, the Bucks were playing in New Jersey, and he went out to dinner with Nelson and assistant coach Del Harris.

"Look, let me know if you have another opening," Dunleavy told Nelson. "I might do it this time."

Nelson responded that Majerus was leaving as an assistant to take the head coaching job at Ball State.

A coaching career was born, with a twist.

Dunleavy came on the scene, ironically, just as Nelson was leaving Milwaukee.

When Harris became the head coach in 1987, Dunleavy continued as an assistant and was eventually named coach of the Los Angeles Lakers in 1990.

When he faces Nelson and Dallas on Wednesday in Los Angeles, the connection will remain.

"He kept throwing the bait out there trying to reel me in," Dunleavy said, smiling. "Finally, I jumped in the boat – and he jumped out."

EricaLubarsky · 12-07-2003, 11:45 PM

*sigh* these pro-Nelson articles make you respect a guy who is going to eaily pull 35 games ahead of Riley for second most wins in NBA history this season. He's taught other up and comers and he has inspired young guys like Musselman. The only criticism you can have of Nelson is that, well...

he's often the bridesmaid and has yet to be the bride...he's figured out the NBA game, but he has yet to figure out how to win a championship.

ReDIRKulous · 12-07-2003, 11:58 PM

I believe Nellie is TOO good of a coach. He was able to make bad teams play good which never allowed him to get that big man in the draft he always needed. People might say that he had his oppurtunity with Ewing... but Van Gundy couldn't win the championship with Ewing playing conventionally... who knows what might have happend if Ewing had tried to adapt to Nellie's system?

EricaLubarsky · 12-08-2003, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous
I believe Nellie is TOO good of a coach. He was able to make bad teams play good which never allowed him to get that big man in the draft he always needed. People might say that he had his oppurtunity with Ewing... but Van Gundy couldn't win the championship with Ewing playing conventionally... who knows what might have happend if Ewing had tried to adapt to Nellie's system?

He knows how to rebuild, and to keep up a winning record, but he has yet to show that he can take it all.

Im happy with a winning team that is competitive and fun to watch but if you are looking for a championship, he has yet to prove that he has what it takes to make an elite team THE best. He has not yet taken a team out of the finals.

ReDIRKulous · 12-08-2003, 12:36 AM

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Im happy with a winning team that is competitive and fun to watch but if you are looking for a championship, he has yet to prove that he has what it takes to make an elite team THE best. He has not yet taken a team out of the finals.

That is dangerous logic you are using though. By that logic you can only replace Nellie with someone that has won a championship. But just because someone has won a championship doesn't mean they will win another one. Pat Riley is a perfect example of this.

BTW... It hought he made an elite team the best last season... the only problem is that the rules and the style of play encouraged by the NBA don't cater to the best besketball imo.

MavKikiNYC · 12-08-2003, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous
I believe Nellie is TOO good of a coach. He was able to make bad teams play good which never allowed him to get that big man in the draft he always needed. People might say that he had his oppurtunity with Ewing... but Van Gundy couldn't win the championship with Ewing playing conventionally...

Actually JVG's NYKs lost the championship to the Spurs with an aged Ewing on the bench due to an Achilles injury.

Quote:

...who knows what might have happend if Ewing had tried to adapt to Nellie's system?

Speculation: Ewing might've faded into oblivion 4-5 years sooner.

kingrex · 12-08-2003, 10:23 AM

I'm with Erica on this. The facts can never lie. He has rebuilt many teams, and have built them to the point of being strong playoff teams, but he has yet to find the key to winning a championship. I'm not sure why he hasn't, but some theories include:

1) He doesn't motivate his guys. Some have said that when it comes to big games his guys aren't properly motivated. They tend to back-off against tougher teams. One example was last year when NVE expressed his now famous "f'em" statement, it took him to light a fire under the team to show some fight.

2) His methods are too unconventional. Some have also criticized Nelson for doing too much tinkering with his line-up. He can't seem to help but come up with the most unorthodox line-ups just for the sake of innovation. An example of this is his obsession with "small ball". This was the case in Golden State and it is oftenly used in Dallas now.

3) He is obsessed with the big white center. If it wasnt' for Dirk, it seems that Nelson's love for tall white players would have proven to be his hubris. From Bradley to Bruno Sundov to Chris Antsey, Nelson seems too enamored with bringing a tall white center to this team.

I'm not sure what exactly it is, but Nelson's "greatness" as a coach will always be debated unless he wins the big one.

FreshJive · 12-08-2003, 03:02 PM

It takes more than just a good coach to win a championship. You have to also have the best players and usually this means having THE best player. To my knowledge Nellie has never had the best squad in the NBA. He had some great teams in Milwaukee, but He had to go through Bird and Magic to win a championship. No big surprise that he wasn't able to. No one can actually tell me they think that Chris Mullin should have lead GS to a title and Nellie just screwed it up. Phil Jackson had MJ and now Shaq. Riley had Magic Johnson and since then he hasn't done jacksh*& without him. Most NBA coaches are good enough to win a championship if they have the best player in the league on thier team.

ReDIRKulous · 12-08-2003, 03:12 PM

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No one can actually tell me they think that Chris Mullin should have lead GS to a title and Nellie just screwed it up.

This is why I feel nellie was TOO good of a coach. Nellie was always able to make bad teams perform good enough to win... no matter how bad. The benefit of this is that you keep yourself from getting fired... the other side of it is that you never get great players in the draft. Nellie is unfortunate in that he never got a decent team after Milwaukeee. Most coaches would have been tossed out of the NBA because they couldnt get those teams to win... or they would have eventually gotten a great player. Part of the reason why nellie may not have gotten to coach a great team is because of his approach to the game... his all offense attitude. Nellie is a heretic in an age of terrible basketball. He probably thought things would swing around a lot sooner than they hav -- n't. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] And when you consider that the NBA is a business it is hard to understand how they havn't swung around to a better style of basketball than what the bad boy Pistons ushered into the league. Every championship team since then has been a team of rugged physical ddefenders with the best offensive player in the game at the time.

LRB · 12-08-2003, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FreshJive
It takes more than just a good coach to win a championship. You have to also have the best players and usually this means having THE best player. To my knowledge Nellie has never had the best squad in the NBA. He had some great teams in Milwaukee, but He had to go through Bird and Magic to win a championship. No big surprise that he wasn't able to. No one can actually tell me they think that Chris Mullin should have lead GS to a title and Nellie just screwed it up. Phil Jackson had MJ and now Shaq. Riley had Magic Johnson and since then he hasn't done jacksh*& without him. Most NBA coaches are good enough to win a championship if they have the best player in the league on thier team.

But the best team on paper doesn't always win. This means that sometimes a team with less talent than the best team wins. Therefore coaches with less talent than other teams have been able to win a championship.

What we tend to do is go back after the fact and label the team that won as being the best team. But this argument makes no sense. So, Nellie may not the best talent and lost, but he hasn't been able to overcome talent and win it all as other coaches have.

But what irks me is that Nellie doesn't seem to have that either conquer the overwhelming odds of the best team on paper or die trying attitude. He seems to give up before the issue can be decided on the courts. He just doesn't seem to possess the heart of a champion. Some coaches have that and others don't. Some still win without it, but few do who don't have the best team on paper.

I will also say that Nellie has strength in that he is far more willing to consider unconventional methods than other coachs. But he has come to rely heavily on those unconventional methods too heavily to the point that they have lost much of their effectiveness. He's also seems to be just as afraid of trying conventional approaches as most coaches are of trying unconventional approaches.

ReDIRKulous · 12-08-2003, 03:17 PM

Quote:

But the best team on paper doesn't always win. This means that sometimes a team with less talent than the best team wins. Therefore coaches with less talent than other teams have been able to win a championship.

Can you name some examples here LRB?

FreshJive · 12-08-2003, 03:17 PM

Quote:

) He is obsessed with the big white center. If it wasnt' for Dirk, it seems that Nelson's love for tall white players would have proven to be his hubris. From Bradley to Bruno Sundov to Chris Antsey, Nelson seems too enamored with bringing a tall white center to this team.

This is BS. It just shows Nellie's obsession with untapped resources. Bradley was Nellie's second attempt to harness the power of the freakishly tall oddity that no one else was intertested in. His first attempt was Manut Bol who was in fact a very dark black man. The rest of the guys you mention fall into Nellie's obsession of tapping the foreign talent base which at the time was virtually unexplored. Now that the rest of the league has caught on and are drafting the foreign players early (high school as well), Nellie decided to look to the college players to find our newest rookie and it seems to have been a good strategy.

FreshJive · 12-08-2003, 03:27 PM

Ok then LRB. Which Nellie team should have won a championship? If any of Nellie's teams had won a championship it would have been the hugest "upset/cinderella" victory of all time. You can't criticisize a coach for not pulling that off. The best shot Nellie has had at a championship was last year, and he was basically a Dirk away from accomplishing it.

ReDIRKulous · 12-08-2003, 03:33 PM

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The best shot Nellie has had at a championship was last year, and he was basically a Dirk away from accomplishing it.

I think the Mavs were a "good rebounder" away from the championship last season. The reason Dirk ended up going down IMO is because he had to carry the entire rebounding load.

Nellie got three of those this summer by the way. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

LRB · 12-08-2003, 03:33 PM

Houston both times, Portland over the 76'ers, Wes Unselds Washington Bullets, Lot's of Bill Russel's teams over Wilt Chamberlain's teams, there are probably several other examples if I spent a little more time. Also if the field greatly widens if you just count teams that overcame a more talented team to make it to the finals, but didn't win the finals.

LRB · 12-08-2003, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FreshJive
Ok then LRB. Which Nellie team should have won a championship? If any of Nellie's teams had won a championship it would have been the hugest "upset/cinderella" victory of all time. You can't criticisize a coach for not pulling that off. The best shot Nellie has had at a championship was last year, and he was basically a Dirk away from accomplishing it.

No, last year's team would not have been the hugest upset of all time. That was Nellie's best shot. And I've never said that, even with last year's team, Nellie had the best team on paper. This is when you're supposed to win it all. Nellie just appears to lack the ability to overcome the odds to win it all as some other coaches have in the past.

Not all coaches who've won it all were the favorites to do so.

ReDIRKulous · 12-08-2003, 03:41 PM

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Houston both times

This is the opnly thing I can relate to. The other teams you were tlaking about were before my time... but I also think those were a different era in basketball. The NBA wasn't as driven by indivual players imo.

Who should have beaten the Rockets though?

Quote:

Also if the field greatly widens if you just count teams that overcame a more talented team to make it to the finals, but didn't win the finals.

This is a big mistake though. Your goal is always to win a championship... this is what youa re always working for... no to just get to the Finals. This is the difference between Jeff VAn Gundy and Nellie's philosophies in NY. Nellie wanted to win the championship and knew that it wasn't going to happen conventionally so his only alternative was to try something unconventional.

LRB · 12-08-2003, 03:47 PM

Quote:

The NBA wasn't as driven by indivual players imo.

Not as much as it is now, but it was still very much driven by the individuals. And that 76'er team was flat out loaded from 1 to 5 and on the bench. And just remember that MJ was the next Dr. J before he became regarded as the best player ever.

FreshJive · 12-08-2003, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

Originally posted by: FreshJive
Ok then LRB. Which Nellie team should have won a championship? If any of Nellie's teams had won a championship it would have been the hugest "upset/cinderella" victory of all time. You can't criticisize a coach for not pulling that off. The best shot Nellie has had at a championship was last year, and he was basically a Dirk away from accomplishing it.

No, last year's team would not have been the hugest upset of all time. That was Nellie's best shot. And I've never said that, even with last year's team, Nellie had the best team on paper. This is when you're supposed to win it all. Nellie just appears to lack the ability to overcome the odds to win it all as some other coaches have in the past.

Not all coaches who've won it all were the favorites to do so.

I guess I just don't think Nellie has really had a legitimate shot, and IMO the Mavs beating last year's Spurs without Dirk was a long shot at best. I'm not saying I'm totally on board with everything Nellie does and there are many criticisms of him on this website that are valid. However, the fact that he hasn't won a championship yet is not one of them IMO.

ReDIRKulous · 12-08-2003, 03:54 PM

How do you know that when these teams got these "fluke wins" that it wasn't just from luck... and that it was some difference in coaching styles between them and Nellie?

LRB · 12-08-2003, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FreshJive

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

Originally posted by: FreshJive
Ok then LRB. Which Nellie team should have won a championship? If any of Nellie's teams had won a championship it would have been the hugest "upset/cinderella" victory of all time. You can't criticisize a coach for not pulling that off. The best shot Nellie has had at a championship was last year, and he was basically a Dirk away from accomplishing it.

No, last year's team would not have been the hugest upset of all time. That was Nellie's best shot. And I've never said that, even with last year's team, Nellie had the best team on paper. This is when you're supposed to win it all. Nellie just appears to lack the ability to overcome the odds to win it all as some other coaches have in the past.

Not all coaches who've won it all were the favorites to do so.

I guess I just don't think Nellie has really had a legitimate shot, and IMO the Mavs beating last year's Spurs without Dirk was a long shot at best. I'm not saying I'm totally on board with everything Nellie does and there are many criticisms of him on this website that are valid. However, the fact that he hasn't won a championship yet is not one of them IMO.

The Mavs wouldn't have needed to have beat the Spurs without Dirk if they had taken care of business at home with Dirk. In other words, a coach wouldn't have had to jump in at that point. Nellie wasn't on track to win the series when Dirk went down. In fact the Mavs were headed towards a 3 to 1 deficit despite stealing the 1st game. It's quite possible the Mavs could have been up 3 to 0 and on the way to 4 when Dirk went down. No Nellie had his chances, he just didn't take advantage of them. I'm not saying that we should have beat the Spurs, but I think we could definitely have played them better and may have possibly have won.

Bottom line is they didn't get it done. Nellie didn't have what it took to close the talent gap in the games where the gap was small. Some coaches have this, most don't. Nellie doesn't appear to be one of them.

LRB · 12-08-2003, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous
How do you know that when these teams got these "fluke wins" that it wasn't just from luck... and that it was some difference in coaching styles between them and Nellie?

Well some coaches seem to be more lucky than others. If it's all luck, then we should fire Nellie and hire a lucky coach because he sure seems anything but lucky. never saw anyone with soooooooooo many excuses in my life.

ReDIRKulous · 12-08-2003, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Well some coaches seem to be more lucky than others. If it's all luck, then we should fire Nellie and hire a lucky coach because he sure seems anything but lucky. never saw anyone with soooooooooo many excuses in my life.

Are you joking? lol

Nellie got to the WCF(the Finals) l;ast season with a team that most people in the media didn't think would get out of the first round. What is that if it isn't luck?

Nellie has also continued to coach and win while going to the lousiest franchises on the planet.

How do you explain Sloan NEVER winning a championship.... even though he is a great coach and had 2 of the greatest players to ever play the game? How do you explain Phil Jackson if luck isn't involved?

LRB · 12-08-2003, 06:39 PM

And some would argue that we should have strolled into the WCF. That the only reasons that we struggled was Nellie's coaching.

When Phil Jackson took over the Bulls they were getting their asses handed to them by the Pistons. Scottie Pippen was more known for his headaches than anything else. Any MJ was cosidered a great talent, but could not win it all. Kobe and Shaq had been together but unable to even make it to the finals until Phil came to town. Undoubtedly Phil has coached the some of the very best players in the game and the ones who were at the top of the NBA when he coached them. But the previous coaches were unable to get the same level or anywhere close to it out of the same players. Hate him or love him, he does know how to get superstars who should dominate to dominate.

Nellie has never gotten a team to the Finals, at least Sloan has. Yes he had 2 of the all time greats in Stockton and Malone, but little else on his team. And he hasn't lost 40 someodd games straight in LA against the Lakers. In fact he even coached the Jazz to a playoff series victory over Shaq and Kobe.

So I'd rather have a lucky coach who wins championships than one who always has an excuse why he can't.

ReDIRKulous · 12-08-2003, 07:56 PM

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And some would argue that we should have strolled into the WCF. That the only reasons that we struggled was Nellie's coaching.

Yeah.. delusional Mavs fans like us. No one lelse thought we would even win when Webber went down. Our inside presence was Raef Bradley Dirk and Najera. lol And we beat Sabonis, rasheed, Zach Randolph, Vlade Divac and Chris Webber. If that isn't beating the odds I don't knwo what is.

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When Phil Jackson took over the Bulls they were getting their asses handed to them by the Pistons. Scottie Pippen was more known for his headaches than anything else. Any MJ was cosidered a great talent, but could not win it all. Kobe and Shaq had been together but unable to even make it to the finals until Phil came to town. Undoubtedly Phil has coached the some of the very best players in the game and the ones who were at the top of the NBA when he coached them. But the previous coaches were unable to get the same level or anywhere close to it out of the same players. Hate him or love him, he does know how to get superstars who should dominate to dominate.

I persoanlly believe that PJ is living off of the rep that Jordan gave him and PJ gave to the Shaq Kobe Lakers too. Great players make mediocre players look great as well as coaches. You give coaches way too much credit. Who was Shaq's coach in Orlando? What became of that mastermind that took Shaq past the Chicago Bulls when Jordan was out of shape?

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Nellie has never gotten a team to the Finals, at least Sloan has. Yes he had 2 of the all time greats in Stockton and Malone, but little else on his team. And he hasn't lost 40 someodd games straight in LA against the Lakers. In fact he even coached the Jazz to a playoff series victory over Shaq and Kobe.

Sloan had one of the best big men to ever play the game... who has Nellie had?

I consider last seasons WCF the true NBA finals. So Nellie has gotten a team to the Finals. Well... wait until Dirk reaches his prime and then you can blame us for not beating the Lakers. Every MAvs player is to blame for that... not Nellie... or at least not JUST Nellie. I want you to keep one thing in mind though. Just remember how Nellie played tall ball exclusively against Portland when we played them in the playoffs which was a totally opposite strategy than what he did in the regular season against Portland. I would not be surprised if Nellie had some entirely different strategy saved for the Lakers. Whether it is tall ball or something else. I would not shock me in the slightest if Nellie whooped Jackson in the playoffs.

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So I'd rather have a lucky coach who wins championships than one who always has an excuse why he can't.

So the only way you can tell if a coach is good is if he has won a championship? How do you pick a coach if there isn't one available that has won a championship? What do you use as criteria?

LRB · 12-08-2003, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Sloan had one of the best big men to ever play the game... who has Nellie had?

Nellie has had more total talent on his team last year and especially this year than Jerry Sloan ever had. Other than Stockton and Malone, Sloan didn't have hardly anything. And yet Sloan milked Malone and Stockton for every once they were worth. And who knows if they would have been anywhere near as good without Jerry.

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So the only way you can tell if a coach is good is if he has won a championship? How do you pick a coach if there isn't one available that has won a championship? What do you use as criteria?

No but you can spot one who doesn't have the Jeuvos to get the job done because he's also getting an excuse ready. Nellie is full of excuses. He's always got one sitting on the back burner ready to use just in case. He's not one of those coaches who can lead his team against an superior talent and instill in them the conviction that they can win. He just doesn't have it in him anymore if he ever did. I actually think he did in the old days at Milwaukee. I just don't see the same thing in him now. Looks like he's gotten too complacent with losing out on championships.

dude1394 · 12-08-2003, 09:08 PM

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he's often the bridesmaid and has yet to be the bride...he's figured out the NBA game, but he has yet to figure out how to win a championship.

PPPSSSSTTTT... I'll give you a hint. Have the best player... That'll do it.

ReDIRKulous · 12-08-2003, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Nellie has had more total talent on his team last year and especially this year than Jerry Sloan ever had. Other than Stockton and Malone, Sloan didn't have hardly anything. And yet Sloan milked Malone and Stockton for every once they were worth. And who knows if they would have been anywhere near as good without Jerry.

How do you know Nellie had more talent than Sloan? Hoiw do you know that Nellie isn't responsible for the "appearance" of talent on the Mavs? After all... Dirk and Nash were nothing before Nellie. People thought we were crazy to take Nick Van Exel.

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No but you can spot one who doesn't have the Jeuvos to get the job done because he's also getting an excuse ready. Nellie is full of excuses.

Nellie walks softly and carries a big stick. Nellie doesn't have "rocks in his head"... he isn't going to give the other team anything they can use to put on the blackboard.

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He's always got one sitting on the back burner ready to use just in case.

Why would he need an excuse? HE won 60 game slast season and got to the NBA finals. So if he doesn't win every game and doesn't insult the competition he isn't a winner? Makes no sense.

Quote:

He's not one of those coaches who can lead his team against an superior talent and instill in them the conviction that they can win. He just doesn't have it in him anymore if he ever did. I actually think he did in the old days at Milwaukee. I just don't see the same thing in him now. Looks like he's gotten too complacent with losing out on championships.

He won 60 games last season... the same amount as the team with the MVP. The best big man and low post presence in the league. What more do you want? Even PJ didn't win last year with Shaq and Kobe. was that because Phil Jackson wasn't a good coach last year?

Just remember... we are only going to go as far as our best player takes us... and our best player is still a youngster. Chances are we won't win a championship until he is in his prime unless the guys around him really step it up.

dude1394 · 12-08-2003, 09:25 PM

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Actually JVG's NYKs lost the championship to the Spurs with an aged Ewing on the bench due to an Achilles injury.

Wow pretty much the same thing happened last year to nellie didn't it. since the spurs/mavs was the championship.

MavKikiNYC · 12-08-2003, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394

Quote:

Actually JVG's NYKs lost the championship to the Spurs with an aged Ewing on the bench due to an Achilles injury.

Wow pretty much the same thing happened last year to nellie didn't it. since the spurs/mavs was the championship.

Well, no. Not really anything like it. ReDirkulous's (or somesuch's) contention was that JVG couldn't win a championship with Ewing playing conventionally. The NYKs lined up against the Spurs without any possibility of Ewing's being available at all because he was injured.

And to go a little further, the NYKs lost that series against the Spurs playing a Nelliesque style of uptempo, racehorse style of ball, with Gumby Camby at C and Sprewell at SF due to the injury to Ewing.

So, not only is the contention that the NYKs didn't win playing a conventional style of ball inaccurate, it denies the fact that they LOST playing a version of Nellie-ball.

And finally, it's beyond tiresome to whine that the WCF is the real championship. It ain't. The Mavericks would still have had to beat the Nets last year if they'd beaten the Spurs, a proposition which may've been a lot less certain than most people around would like to believe.

dude1394 · 12-08-2003, 11:14 PM

So I guess in your opinion the old cowboys/49ers championships weren't for the super bowl either.

We'll just have to disagree. I don't think you can find me a better coach than nellie unless they bring shaq/duncan/garnet. And I cannot remember any nba team (except detroit) in my lifetime winning the championship without the most dominant players.

If you think dirk is that ok, good for you, I don't see it.

MavKikiNYC · 12-08-2003, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394
So I guess in your opinion the old cowboys/49ers championships weren't for the super bowl either.

No, and USC won't be playing Michigan for the national championship either.

Evilmav2 · 12-09-2003, 03:10 AM

Big Don says: I Am The Master...

FreshJive · 12-09-2003, 03:30 AM

Did Mavs Kiki just say the Bills had a legitimate shot at winning a Super Bowl? Ha
The Nets had no chance.

I'm curious Mavs Kiki which Nellie team you think ought to have won a championship.

Evilmav2 · 12-09-2003, 03:51 AM

Nelson has never had the big guns to win a championship (although the aborted Webber/Sprewell/Mullin/Hardaway/Gatling/Seikaly/Owens Warriors might have eventually provided that shot), but he has become the third winningest coach in NBA history- he'll be tied for the two spot after this Wednesday- by getting the most out of the moderate to good talent on his past teams. Big Don is due for another ring, and this Mavs team will end up being his last, and very best shot at aquiring that piece of coaching jewelry...

FreshJive · 12-09-2003, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Evilmav2

Big Don says: I Am The Master...

Nellie looks like a homosexual dominatrix with the 'stache and the Vader costume, not to mention the look on his face.

Evilmav2 · 12-09-2003, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Nellie looks like a homosexual dominatrix with the 'stache and the Vader costume, not to mention the look on his face.

Big Don says: I'm glad you appreciate my costume so much, Mr. FreshJive...

FreshJive · 12-09-2003, 04:35 AM

Maybe I missed the original intent of I am the Master. I think I may have dryly explained your very creative joke with my redundant post.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]

Simon2 · 12-09-2003, 08:44 AM

"Nellie is very complimentary," Van Gundy said. "On those nights we couldn't stop anybody, he never said it was me. So I appreciate the compliment. I learned more from him than he did from me."

Nellie didn't get mad because defense wasn't/isn't his concern.

Evilmav2 · 12-09-2003, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FreshJive
Maybe I missed the original intent of I am the Master. I think I may have dryly explained your very creative joke with my redundant post.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]

Nah, the real intent was signified by my being amused by the title of this thread, while I was fooling around and learning to use Adobe Photoshop 7...

The Fiercesome Wang-Baboon Knows No Master!