The Preemptive "I Told You Dirk Would Return to Greatness" Thread

[DevinHarriswillstart]

[saclare]

Great game from Dirk. And yea, when Caron was healthy that team was REALLY clicking.

[Murphy3]

Dirk's 5 best Game Scores of the season all occurred in the past 6 games. He's obviously back.

[EricaLubarsky]

Dirk is great but needs to do more. It's really on him to demand the ball and to set the tone of the game. He did a lot last night, but he needed to be the man and he wasn't.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

he needed to be the man and he wasn't.

Dirk is not a PG/SG. Someone (Collison, Carter or Mayo) needs to deliver the ball.

[ReDirkulous Tyme]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Dirk is not a PG/SG. Someone (Collison, Carter or Mayo) needs to deliver the ball.

ya know in all honesty, I think that Roddy does a better job getting the ball to dirk on the PnR than James/DC/OJ....something I remember seeing from various roddy stints with Dirk. May have a hazy memory in that regard though, as I tend to look at Roddy through rose-colored glasses

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by ReDirkulous Tyme

ya know in all honesty, I think that Roddy does a better job getting the ball to dirk on the PnR than James/DC/OJ....something I remember seeing from various roddy stints with Dirk. May have a hazy memory in that regard though, as I tend to look at Roddy through rose-colored glasses

Agreed.

Roddy at least tries to be a poor man's Jet Terry and more often than not he gives the ball back to Dirk for an open shot.

Yesterday it was so frustrating to watch. Dirk sets a screen, gets double teamed, passes to Collison, Collison drives, Dirk gets wide open behind him, but Collison prefers to brick a layup against 3 defenders instead of passing it back to Dirk...ugh

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Dirk is not a PG/SG. Someone (Collison, Carter or Mayo) needs to deliver the ball.

And the 2 turnovers late, when he had the ball?

[Kante]

Originally Posted by ReDirkulous Tyme

ya know in all honesty, I think that Roddy does a better job getting the ball to dirk on the PnR than James/DC/OJ....something I remember seeing from various roddy stints with Dirk. May have a hazy memory in that regard though, as I tend to look at Roddy through rose-colored glasses

No, you are right. Roddy does a good job running the P&R and giving the ball to Dirk.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

And the 2 turnovers late, when he had the ball?

Our backcourt put Dirk in a turnover prone situation. He could either shoot it immediately or try to spin in traffic...

It is like passing the ball to Shaq at the 3pt line with 2sec. on the shot clock.

And this is what i hate most about Mayo/Collison. Not only do they commit ton of turnovers, but (esp. in crunch time) they also put their teammates in tough spots. Especially Dirk and Marion...and Kaman.

[ReDirkulous Tyme]

Originally Posted by Kante

No, you are right. Roddy does a good job running the P&R and giving the ball to Dirk.

can't tell if this is sarcasm or actual agreement, damn internet and its ability to mask inflection!!

Regardless, if for no other reason at this point, Dirk needs to be taking 20+ shots in order to prove to other FA's that he can still be THE MAN. Pretty sure he is already making a case for that, but he needs to be FAR more assertive. Part of this is being able to get him the basketball in his spots. Everyone (myself included) I think took JET and Kidd's ability to get the ball to Dirk whenever/wherever he wanted for granted.

We HAVE to me Dallas an attractive destination for a great 5, and the only way I see that happening is by Dirk going nuts down the stretch...I just hope he realizes that even if the playoffs slip away, he still needs to be extremely assertive...

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Dirk is great but needs to do more. It's really on him to demand the ball and to set the tone of the game. He did a lot last night, but he needed to be the man and he wasn't.

As Dirk said, he needed to be perfect down the stretch..and he wasn't. It really doesn't matter. All that really matters the rest of the season is evaluating talent and Dirk playing up to a high enough level to convince possible free agents/trade acquisitions that he is still capable of playing at an All-NBA type level.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Our backcourt put Dirk in a turnover prone situation. He could either shoot it immediately or try to spin in traffic...

It is like passing the ball to Shaq at the 3pt line with 2sec. on the shot clock.

And this is what i hate most about Mayo/Collison. Not only do they commit ton of turnovers, but (esp. in crunch time) they also put their teammates in tough spots. Especially Dirk and Marion...and Kaman.

Bro, you need to go back and revisit the last 3 minutes of that game. His turnovers were all his in crunch time. Blame shared.

Dirk had a great stat line clearly. But in finish time, it wasn't quite enough.

[saclare]

I'm waiting for the breaking point when they decide to play Roddy over James, at least. I want to see Roddy and Collison, two young players, push each other, instead of someone who is clearly not a long term solution in James.

[Kante]

Originally Posted by ReDirkulous Tyme

can't tell if this is sarcasm or actual agreement, damn internet and its ability to mask inflection!!

It was an agreement.

[Bayliss]

Guess it will require Kaman to sit out again.

[antoinewalker]

the OP will be wrong.

[|_Jeff_|]

8 points, 4 rebounds, out-played by Motiejunas.

Dirk isn't "done" but he's just a guy nowadays, like Barkley and Drexler were with the Rockets at the end. He'll be a 16ppg player for the next few years if sticks around.

[dude1394]

Dirk is giving the big FU to this team.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

8 points, 4 rebounds, out-played by Motiejunas.

Dirk isn't "done" but he's just a guy nowadays, like Barkley and Drexler were with the Rockets at the end. He'll be a 16ppg player for the next few years if sticks around.

It was one game. Dirk had terrible games 5-6-7 years ago. Every player does. Heck, he had 1 terrible playoff series in his career as well. What he showed prior to this game in the last few weeks, to me indicates, he could be 1b option next year, on a true contender. More than Barkley, or Drexler was at 35. "All" we need is a superstar (meaning, Dwight, i don't see Paul sign here).

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

8 points, 4 rebounds, out-played by Motiejunas.

Dirk isn't "done" but he's just a guy nowadays, like Barkley and Drexler were with the Rockets at the end. He'll be a 16ppg player for the next few years if sticks around.

He's more than just a guy just because of the clutch factor. But he by no means is the franchise guy we can build around any longer.
I don't know if I want Dwight as that guy though.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

It was one game. Dirk had terrible games 5-6-7 years ago. Every player does. Heck, he had 1 terrible playoff series in his career as well. What he showed prior to this game in the last few weeks, to me indicates, he could be 1b option next year, on a true contender. More than Barkley, or Drexler was at 35. "All" we need is a superstar (meaning, Dwight, i don't see Paul sign here).

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

He's more than just a guy just because of the clutch factor. But he by no means is the franchise guy we can build around any longer.
I don't know if I want Dwight as that guy though.

Dirk as the number 2 option on this current Mavs roster (also with a better PG) would be deadly. If we had a consistent scoring star at any other position you would have 2 players which would have to be double teamed or either could go off.

[SMC0007]

Change thread to :

The Preemptive "I Told You Dirk Would Return to Greatness, here and there" Thread"

[GP]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

8 points, 4 rebounds, out-played by Motiejunas.

Dirk isn't "done" but he's just a guy nowadays, like Barkley and Drexler were with the Rockets at the end. He'll be a 16ppg player for the next few years if sticks around.

Guard play, guard play, guard play!!!!!!

Dirk is still the #1 option and still the best player on the team by far. Problem is that the guard play is just atrocious. Get a decent guard and set Dirk up properly and give him the ball in the right places he'll go back to annihilating the opposition. This whole team, including its coach, has been one big cluster f*($ this year. Dirk is a scoring big. Not a ball handler. He just can't run to the top of the key like McGrady used to and get the ball. The offense has to actually construct shots for him through the pick in roll, through their sets and by a guard passing him the ball in the proper position.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by GP

Guard play, guard play, guard play!!!!!!

Dirk is still the #1 option and still the best player on the team by far. Problem is that the guard play is just atrocious. Get a decent guard and set Dirk up properly and give him the ball in the right places he'll go back to annihilating the opposition. This whole team, including its coach, has been one big cluster f*($ this year. Dirk is a scoring big. Not a ball handler. He just can't run to the top of the key like McGrady used to and get the ball. The offense has to actually construct shots for him through the pick in roll, through their sets and by a guard passing him the ball in the proper position.

Let's be specific...point guard play. I'm fine with Mayo/Carter being spot up 3 point shooters or driving in iso. Collison has been frustrating, Mike James infuriating...

[Dirk's Knee]

Since the OP's prediction, Dirk stands at 17.8 PPG and 9.8 RPG. I even threw in the game on the 24th to pad the stats a bit. Ugh...

[SMC0007]

He will be right back after Dirks next good game.

[GP]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

Since the OP's prediction, Dirk stands at 17.8 PPG and 9.8 RPG. I even threw in the game on the 24th to pad the stats a bit. Ugh...

What do you think he would be averaging if he got 5 more shots per game which is about his career norm? I think you could safely say that with just 5 more shots per game he'd be right in the 21 to 23 range. Even in a "down" year for him he is scoring 1.2 points per shot attempt. Give him 18.2 shot attempts he'd be sitting at 21.84 points per game and who knows what would happen if they actually got him the ball in good scoring positions. So really, when you start looking at the stats Dirk isn't the problem here. The problem is that this is a team full of guys who don't give a rats behind about winning but getting their next contract. A lot of times this team plays the way a NBDL team plays. I hate to say it but coaching is really an issue here.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

Since the OP's prediction, Dirk stands at 17.8 PPG and 9.8 RPG. I even threw in the game on the 24th to pad the stats a bit. Ugh...

We need context. Minutes played, usage rate, efficiency. That 18/10 could mean he's a terrible stat padder, or he could put up GOAT stats in 25 minutes. Of course we know, it's neither, just saying, that's not much of an argument. Anyway, i think he will average 20+ points easily again next year, provided he's healthy of course. We need somebody to take some pressure off of him though, more than ever. And unortunately, the market is as thin as ever.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by GP

What do you think he would be averaging if he got 5 more shots per game which is about his career norm? I think you could safely say that with just 5 more shots per game he'd be right in the 21 to 23 range. Even in a "down" year for him he is scoring 1.2 points per shot attempt. Give him 18.2 shot attempts he'd be sitting at 21.84 points per game and who knows what would happen if they actually got him the ball in good scoring positions. So really, when you start looking at the stats Dirk isn't the problem here. The problem is that this is a team full of guys who don't give a rats behind about winning but getting their next contract. A lot of times this team plays the way a NBDL team plays. I hate to say it but coaching is really an issue here.

I agree Coaching is an issue here.

I only agree partially that Dirk isn't the problem here. Not THE problem but A problem, imo.

I can't agree with the line of thinking that Dirk is completely innocent in why he isn't producing near normal. He has to be responsible for fighting harder for position and demanding the ball more. HE really needs to take over and it's clear he hasn't. Mully grubbing and moaning about what's going on isn't going to solve anything for him. Nose to the grindstone is the only way out!

[GP]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I agree Coaching is an issue here.

I only agree partially that Dirk isn't the problem here. Not THE problem but A problem, imo.

I can't agree with the line of thinking that Dirk is completely innocent in why he isn't producing near normal. He has to be responsible for fighting harder for position and demanding the ball more. HE really needs to take over and it's clear he hasn't. Mully grubbing and moaning about what's going on isn't going to solve anything for him. Nose to the grindstone is the only way out!

The problem with that is that he is OFTEN wide friggin' open and they don't pass him the ball. Instead, Collison swings it to Mayo who is covered who shoots a tough shot or Collison who drives into the lane into triple coverage and throws up a prayer. Look, Mayo, Brand, Kaman, Crowder and Collison to a large degree are practically black holes on offense. All except Crowder are ISO players. Every danged one of them. About the only 2 guys willing to pass the ball in the 1/2 court set are Dirk and Carter. It is a poorly constructed team and if Cuban really is serious about contending again then he needs to acquire 2 way players who can play within an offensive framework and not Nellie ball type of guys.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by GP

The problem with that is that he is OFTEN wide friggin' open and they don't pass him the ball. Instead, Collison swings it to Mayo who is covered who shoots a tough shot or Collison who drives into the lane into triple coverage and throws up a prayer. Look, Mayo, Brand, Kaman, Crowder and Collison to a large degree are practically black holes on offense. All except Crowder are ISO players. Every danged one of them. About the only 2 guys willing to pass the ball in the 1/2 court set are Dirk and Carter. It is a poorly constructed team and if Cuban really is serious about contending again then he needs to acquire 2 way players who can play within an offensive framework and not Nellie ball type of guys.

Yea, I agree with you on a lot of this. Lots of blame to go around, and I have seen Dirk either not get the ball when he's open or he gets the ball late. It's especially annoying on PnR when Coillison hits him late. Still, he needs to be more assertive overall.

At this point, I want to see Carter and Dirk on the PnR instead of any other options. It has potential for Mayo/Morrow to get open looks. Hell if they're open, I don't mind either of the PG's taking an open 3.

That's something coaching has to figure out. Why the hell is Morrow not getting minutes? This fricken offensive mess can't possibly take that long to pick up.

Two people that need to pick up their game regardless of anything else is RC and Dirk.

[grndmstr_c]

Morrow's nursing an injury.

[FreshJive]

Sports agents add so much value to the NBA. It's a good thing we have posters here who are so willing to commit acts of sports agentry right here on this little site.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by GP

What do you think he would be averaging if he got 5 more shots per game which is about his career norm? I think you could safely say that with just 5 more shots per game he'd be right in the 21 to 23 range. Even in a "down" year for him he is scoring 1.2 points per shot attempt. Give him 18.2 shot attempts he'd be sitting at 21.84 points per game and who knows what would happen if they actually got him the ball in good scoring positions. So really, when you start looking at the stats Dirk isn't the problem here. The problem is that this is a team full of guys who don't give a rats behind about winning but getting their next contract. A lot of times this team plays the way a NBDL team plays. I hate to say it but coaching is really an issue here.

Point well taken, but if Dirk is the leader of this team then he simply has to create his own opportunity, downright demand it. When he touches the ball, he has to create. Instead of sitting on the perimeter waiting for a pass, he's got to fight for position down low. That's what we should expect from an All Star. I'm no Kobe fan, but you can see it in his face when he decides the Lakers will not loose. He doesn't yell at refs getting technicals, he doesn't sit on the perimeter waiting for a pass, he carries the team on his back and guarantees a playoff berth. We saw this in 2011 from Dirk. I realize their games are completely different, but the point is if you are the leader of the team, then why is the coach always seeking out veteran leadership?

I think Dirk is part of the problem, but its not his fault. Its the fault of the front office not properly planning for the future and Carlisle not using the talent he has effectively, some of the questionable line ups are really starting to bug me.

I will always love Dirk. I think he will indeed have a better season next year than this. I'm not saying he's useless and needs to be thrown out, simply his time as an all star has probably passed. His role should be not unlike Duncan's is for the Spurs. He'll be 35 in June. With the exception of the Lakers and Celtics, no team in the NBA is relying on a 35 year old to be the cornerstone of their team. And even in LA, they are really trying to plan for a post Kobe landscape.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

Point well taken, but if Dirk is the leader of this team then he simply has to create his own opportunity,

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showpo...4&postcount=33

And be warned. I will quote it over and over again, till you get it

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by markus1234

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showpo...4&postcount=33

And be warned. I will quote it over and over again, till you get it

I get it. But to me the most important part of that quote is this:

Clearly, there is a design in place to limit the burden thrust upon Dirk’s shoulders, a wise decision over the course of the season – particularly this season.

And regarding Dirk not being Lebron or Kobe relying on others to feed him the ball, well are you suggesting we have 7 ineffective guards? Here's what I said to that in my previous quote:

I think Dirk is part of the problem, but its not his fault. Its the fault of the front office not properly planning for the future and Carlisle not using the talent he has effectively, some of the questionable line ups are really starting to bug me.

[markus1234]

Yes we have 7 ineffective guards. Most of them should not even be in the NBA.

But it is not really about the guards. This team is full of selfish black holes. They do not know how to move the ball, how to set screens and things like that. Now we can see why Elton Brand averaged 25-10 and missed the playoffs most of the time... the same goes for Kaman, Collison, Mayo and co. They do not make their teams better. They kill the rhythm of their teammates.

Watch the Mavs,... and compare it to NY, SAS or DEN...ugh

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Yes we have 7 ineffective guards. Most of them should not even be in the NBA.

But it is not really about the guards. This team is full of selfish black holes. They do not know how to move the ball, how to set screens and things like that. Now we can see why Elton Brand averaged 25-10 and missed the playoffs most of the time... the same goes for Kaman, Collison, Mayo and co. They do not make their teams better. They kill the rhythm of their teammates.

Watch the Mavs,... and compare it to NY, SAS or DEN...ugh

That I can totally agree with. But a huge part of that is beyond the players skills (or lack of) and simply due to the fact that this is how rent a players will play. They are playing for next years contracts not this year's team. When your roster is full of them, this is about the best you can hope for. But I would also suggest we can no longer afford to be a team in which it's Nowitzki or bust. He desperately needs some help out there. I think the Mayo/Carter SG combo is a decent part of that equation especially as the number 3 scoring option. From an assist perspective, Mayo is above average at SG (if he can keep those turnovers under control). Let's pick up one of the top tier centers to solidify the inside game and let Nowitzki ease into being the second scoring option.

[Subtuppel]

I think Mayo could be on a good way, his assists were at tiimes more helpful than his scoring.

there are only three guys on the team that could not be easily replaced though, and that is dirk, marion, and carter (imo really great the way he fills his veteran role coming of the bench).
wright is one of the better other ones with his work under the baskets.

but e.g. kaman isn't wort anything, 12+ point offensive cant make up for no defense at all, same goes with collison. crowder and james show passion but don't know how many shots they sould take.

edit2: although it is blasphemy here, but having watched the lakers games recently: actually the mavs could also need just one guy doing it all like (i do not like him, but one has to respect what he does) bryant carrying the whole star studded lakers alone right now. who thought that all the top guys fall way below their standards but the old man in his 17th season play his ass off and that arguably better than ever...