Goodbye OJ Mayo and Darren Collison... - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

mavsfan1000 · 02-27-2013, 10:42 AM

Give me Mayo. Get rid of Collison. A point guard can make a huge difference. And Collison has proven to make a huge difference in a negative way. Also we need a defensive big man. That should be our top priority.

DGM · 02-27-2013, 10:47 AM

OJ could get open shot by passing to dirk, spreading the floor and letting dirk find the open man?

spreedom · 02-27-2013, 11:48 AM

Man, this summer's FA class is pretty weak. CP3 is clearly going to re-sign with the Clippers... the best option after him would be Calderon (again).

GermanFan · 02-27-2013, 12:19 PM

mhh do you think OJ will take his player option and do we really dont want him for 4,2 mio ?

who else to get for that kind of money ?

jacktruth · 02-27-2013, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Great team guy, willing to be coached, improving, young, potential is off the charts(outbearding Harden at Houston), etc..

This guy is Brandon Jennings without all the baggage. Im willing to roll with this guy at the right price.

I wish Mayo had the shot creation skills of Jennings. I'm sure he does too.

I would upgrade Mayo in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, I think it would be easier to downgrade than upgrade. He certainly isn't the biggest problem on this team.

Collison is a PG in only 3 aspects: 1) he can handle the ball better than a lot of players. 2) He can hit free throws 3) Well, I'm wrong. There are only 2.

He doesn't seem to me to be capable of running the offense or carry himself as leader on the floor. He can't defend like a leader or hit clutch shots like a leader, or troubleshoot a lineup or bad streak of basketball.

vinylstar · 02-27-2013, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Yep, with the shimmy afterwards. Nice recall!

"There's the shimmy!!!!" - Matt Pinto

ibivibiv · 02-27-2013, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

They really aren't terrible, but they certainly aren't stars. You can just see when too much is asked of them...

This ^. Very true of most of our team this year. They are being expected to uphold a championship team legacy they had no part in and aren't even capable of doing.

EricaLubarsky · 02-27-2013, 01:14 PM

This thread is dumb for two reasons. 1) Mayo and Collison will probably be back. 2) It's ridiculous to bag on a player that just isn't that good with the implication that they are almost intentionally sabotaging the team and just asked to do more than they are capable.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-27-2013, 01:21 PM

I just don't want to watch losing basketball anymore. These two guys are the poster children for what is wrong with this season. Young, one year contract fillers who are asked to do too much and choke when the games matter. And then too much pressure is put on guys like VC to play well. I mean, sh**, VC had to hit a game winning three to beat f'in New Orleans who didn't even have A. Davis in the forth quarter.

Dirk's Knee · 02-27-2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanFan

mhh do you think OJ will take his player option and do we really dont want him for 4,2 mio ?

who else to get for that kind of money ?

There is no one for that money who would be an upgrade at SG. We got a hell of a deal on him and he is outperforming expectations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I just don't want to watch losing basketball anymore. These two guys are the poster children for what is wrong with this season. Young, one year contract fillers who are asked to do too much and choke when the games matter. And then too much pressure is put on guys like VC to play well. I mean, sh**, VC had to hit a game winning three to beat f'in New Orleans who didn't even have A. Davis in the forth quarter.

Which is exactly why we need to sign at least one of them in order to keep some form of stability on the roster. Honestly, I'd like to have both back but with Mayo as the #3 scoring option behind Dirk and (insert star FA here) and Collison coming off the bench. Given this season's free agency and my doubts that Howard will leave LA, I would like to see Dallas focusing Jefferson or Pekovic for the center. Bynum would be worth a look to see if he can come back at his same level of competitiveness, might be able to get him at a bit of a discount due to him being somewhat of a gamble due to missing so much of this season. At point guard, Jose Calderon and Kyle Lowery would both be an upgrade. Unfortunately we have almost nothing to offer in terms of trade value in the case of any type of restricted free agents so it unfortunately all boils down to the value of our pick.

41mvp · 02-27-2013, 02:11 PM

Mayo is like Lamar Odom ,he cant do something good for this team

EricaLubarsky · 02-27-2013, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41mvp

Mayo is like Lamar Odom ,he cant do something good for this team

This is ludicrous. The dude does tons of good things. He just can't run the offense in the crunch.

superior sharpshooter
above average rebounder from the 2
Decent ball handler from the 2
clutch eFG% is only a hair below Dirk's and one of the highest on the team

Downside?
He tries to do more than he's capable of because we need him to.
He turns it over trying to do those things.
He can be shut down by defenders, but if he was really the 3-5 option on the team, like he should be, this wouldnt be an issue.

Why don't you just accept that he's not the reason we're terrible. The reason we're terrible is that we couldn't defend Danny Fortson on a 1-on-4 fastbreak and our clutch execution lacks a floor general with experience. The reason we are bad is because we are missing pieces and we're trying to fit a square peg (Mayo) into three different holes.

clutch#41 · 02-27-2013, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Man, this summer's FA class is pretty weak. CP3 is clearly going to re-sign with the Clippers... the best option after him would be Calderon (again).

i think its the best its been in years and im not even including cp3.....

and calderon?

how about ellis, jennings, jack, lowry, tyreke evans?

EricaLubarsky · 02-27-2013, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutch#41

i think its the best its been in years and im not even including cp3.....

Indeed. Most free agents re-sign where they were, so this year isn't going to surprise us there. Still, there are a lot of potential names to address our biggest problems.

Guards
Chris Paul
Iduodala
Ginobli
Mayo
Allen
Martin
Reddick
Korver
Brandon Jennings
Tyreke Evans
Jose Calderon
Jarrett Jack
Beno Udrih

Centers
Dwight
Bynum
Okafor
Mozgov
Jefferson
Kaman

forwards
Josh Smith
David West
Paul Milsap
Elton Brand
Antawn Jamison
J.J. Hickson

Thats a ton of guys-- most of which will re-sign with their original teams, but it's as good a FA class as I can remember.

41mvp · 02-27-2013, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

This is ludicrous. The dude does tons of good things. He just can't run the offense in the crunch.

why you defend him ?this guy is one of the worst player in our history(except Matt Carroll,Diop and Damp)With him we wont make the playoffs.His time is coming to over here.

I wish him all best but here he is done.

ReDirkulous Tyme · 02-27-2013, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41mvp

why you defend him ?this guy is one of the worst player in our history(except Matt Carroll,Diop and Damp)With him we wont make the playoffs.His time is coming to over here.

I wish him all best but here he is done.

wow....this would be the quintessential definition of a facepalm

SMC0007 · 02-27-2013, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41mvp

why you defend him ?this guy is one of the worst player in our history(except Matt Carroll,Diop and Damp)With him we wont make the playoffs.His time is coming to over here.

I wish him all best but here he is done.

!dnim ruoy tsol evah uoy

SMC0007 · 02-27-2013, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41mvp

why you defend him ?this guy is one of the worst player in our history(except Matt Carroll,Diop and Damp)With him we wont make the playoffs.His time is coming to over here.

I wish him all best but here he is done.

!dnim ruoy tsol evah uoy

41mvp · 02-27-2013, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

!dnim ruoy tsol evah uoy

i dont think so my silly friend.I always write only true and my own way of thinking,so be polite and quiet.

once again for me Mayo is done like you and your coment

davblue · 02-27-2013, 04:31 PM

Mayo at $4mil is definitely not the problem. I'd say our return on investment has been pretty high on that signing.

saclare · 02-27-2013, 04:55 PM

Uh Mayo is easily in the top half of all-time franchise players...far from the "worst player in our history"

DGM · 02-27-2013, 05:24 PM

he is far from the worst player but jimmy johnson had a term for a player like mayo. he's a coach killer. he loses his poise under pressure. he's a good 7th or 8th man to come in on the second unit on a good team. he would look like world beater with spurs or heat. front line starter on a team that needs consistent production...not so much.

Dirk's Knee · 02-27-2013, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41mvp

why you defend him ?this guy is one of the worst player in our history(except Matt Carroll,Diop and Damp)With him we wont make the playoffs.His time is coming to over here.

I wish him all best but here he is done.

I'm sorry, but your judgement is extremely clouded. Based on the performance of other SG at a similar salary, our record would this season be down in the .3 to .4 range without him. He's performing better than Terry IMHO at a fraction of the salary. Keep him and play to his strengths. Our issues this season are very easy to identify: missing Dirk for large portion of the first half the season, slow transition to effectively incorporate Dirk back into the offensive, no valid backup guards (though inconsistency of the starting guards has been a bit problematic as well), and lack of low post defense (though this is starting to come around with the shift to James starting and Brand's play the last month or so). A guy avg 17.5 PPG, 4.4 AST the worst ever? Please...

Will Mayo lead the team to the playoffs? No. Can he be an effective part of a playoff team? Absolutely.

spreedom · 02-27-2013, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutch#41

i think its the best its been in years and im not even including cp3.....

and calderon?

how about ellis, jennings, jack, lowry, tyreke evans?

Ellis isn't a PG at all... Jennings is a turd (you think OJ and DC piss you off with their bad play?), Jarrett Jack isn't a starter, Lowry has a team option, and Evans isn't a PG.

The overall FA class has the potential to be pretty good, but in terms of having real, quality point guards on the market... slim pickings.

Dirk's Knee · 02-27-2013, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Ellis isn't a PG at all... Jennings is a turd (you think OJ and DC piss you off with their bad play?), Jarrett Jack isn't a starter, Lowry has a team option, and Evans isn't a PG.

The overall FA class has the potential to be pretty good, but in terms of having real, quality point guards on the market... slim pickings.

Yep, Calderon unless we can somehow enact a trade for one of the restricted free agents which is unlikely due to having no real assets to trade. Devin Harris is also available...

41mvp · 02-27-2013, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

I'm sorry, but your judgement is extremely clouded. Based on the performance of other SG at a similar salary, our record would this season be down in the .3 to .4 range without him. He's performing better than Terry IMHO at a fraction of the salary. Keep him and play to his strengths. Our issues this season are very easy to identify: missing Dirk for large portion of the first half the season, slow transition to effectively incorporate Dirk back into the offensive, no valid backup guards (though inconsistency of the starting guards has been a bit problematic as well), and lack of low post defense (though this is starting to come around with the shift to James starting and Brand's play the last month or so). A guy avg 17.5 PPG, 4.4 AST the worst ever? Please...

Will Mayo lead the team to the playoffs? No. Can he be an effective part of a playoff team? Absolutely.

Tell me when he scored 15 points or more last time?Just look around and what you see?I want to tell you what i see when i look at Dirk.He is not feel comfortable when he is with Mayo on the floor.And thats the point ,if Dirk is not happy this team sucks.

You have right in the secound case he might be effective part of playoff team, if he won t play in the 4thQ.

Player become a superstar when he leads his team to the championship (like Dirk)Mayo will never do it .

rmacomic · 02-27-2013, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Uh Mayo is easily in the top half of all-time franchise players...far from the "worst player in our history"

Dude, step away from the pipe. Mayo is decent, but he is hardly a franchise player. Hell, Eddie Najara was more clutch / less disaster prone than Mayo. Mayo may not be the "worst player in our history," but he isn't even in the top half at this point and his "all-time" status is dropping with every botched 4th quarter.

dude1394 · 02-27-2013, 07:46 PM

These guards may be the most incompetent I've ever seen at utilizing a pick. Collison seems so afraid of contact that he won't even get close to,the pick. Mayo just as bad. A pick man! How fundamental does it get?

EricaLubarsky · 02-27-2013, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmacomic

Dude, step away from the pipe. Mayo is decent, but he is hardly a franchise player. Hell, Eddie Najara was more clutch / less disaster prone than Mayo. Mayo may not be the "worst player in our history," but he isn't even in the top half at this point and his "all-time" status is dropping with every botched 4th quarter.

He didn't intend to say that he was a "franchise player". He meant player the franchise has had.

Sportstudi · 02-27-2013, 09:19 PM

Collison has ZERO court vision.

nowhereman · 02-27-2013, 09:21 PM

The guy is 7 feet tall and 10 feet away from you. All you have to do is lob it to him. How is Collison so bad at this. I guess I took passing the ball to Nowitzki for granted this whole time.

DGM · 02-27-2013, 09:26 PM

collison and mayo. maybe rc deserves it. he keeps playing them heavy minutes like they are all stars. l

clutch#41 · 02-27-2013, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Ellis isn't a PG at all... Jennings is a turd (you think OJ and DC piss you off with their bad play?), Jarrett Jack isn't a starter, Lowry has a team option, and Evans isn't a PG.

The overall FA class has the potential to be pretty good, but in terms of having real, quality point guards on the market... slim pickings.

strongly disagree. how many pass 1st pgs are left in this league? like 5? ellis with 13 assts and counting but hey hes not a PG

sefant77 · 02-27-2013, 10:40 PM

Dont let the door hit you on the way out!

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-28-2013, 12:31 AM

Those two were just awful tonight...

twelli · 02-28-2013, 03:00 AM

Eddie, seriously?

Chris ... "Do you see the Mavs perhaps overpaying a little to keep players like Mayo considering how important it seems to keep in house talent now?"

Eddie Sefko: "I wouldn't necessarily overpay. They might be surprised how good they could do with a competitive bid that doesn't fall into the category of over-aggressive. Nothing worse in this league than bidding against yourself when it comes to free agents. There's no doubt Mayo has earned himself a ton of money this season. He'll be in demand as soon as July 1 hits. But he likes the Mavericks. The question is whether they can secure whatever target they settle on as their prime free-agent coup, then turn their attentions to Mayo and Brand and Collison. As of right now, the Mavericks have old, solid, proven winners in Dirk, Vince and Marion set for next season. They need some youth to sell any free agent to come. For that reason, the re-signing of Mayo and Collison are critical to the future. But it's not going to be easy to keep them both."

If those two players and Mike James are still playing for the Mavs next year, I quit watching.

41mvp · 02-28-2013, 03:41 AM

11 points 5 TO and 2 AS thats what OJ.Mayo is.

yahyes · 02-28-2013, 03:58 AM

Do some people realize OJ and Collison have been dealt with more minutes?

Cerberus · 02-28-2013, 04:55 AM

Trade Collison in the offseason and draft Trey Burke?

Jarrett Jack, Earl Watson, Nate Robinson and Mo Williams are all unrestricted FA PGs in offseason to target.

jthig32 · 02-28-2013, 08:53 AM

I tend to think Collison will be back, in some role. He's proven that he can be productive off the bench, and I think his skill set is actually tailored pretty well to running a second unit.

I think Mayo's gone. Some bad team is going to give him a lot of money.

I also find it interesting that these two guys are catching so much flak (some of it deserved) while our 8M "all star caliber" starting center is getting a free pass.

Chris Kaman being terrible is a pretty big part of why this team is bad.