Goodbye OJ Mayo and Darren Collison...

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I tend to think Collison will be back, in some role. He's proven that he can be productive off the bench, and I think his skill set is actually tailored pretty well to running a second unit.

I think Mayo's gone. Some bad team is going to give him a lot of money.

I also find it interesting that these two guys are catching so much flak (some of it deserved) while our 8M "all star caliber" starting center is getting a free pass.

Chris Kaman being terrible is a pretty big part of why this team is bad.

People don't remember JJB contributing to our championship but he did.

Collison=JJB. They're pesky, fast and not particularly defense-oriented.

If we only had JJB and he was starting, people would be saying the exact same things.

[markus1234]

JJB >>>> Collison

Not even close.

JJB was much more physical (took charges, finished stronger at the rim, fought through screens) and he had a much higher BBIQ and winning mentality.

Collison has a personality of a rock. And he is softer than Roddy.

[dude1394]

I don't really see how accountable kaman can be when he's been gone a month.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by markus1234

JJB >>>> Collison

Not even close.

JJB was much more physical (took charges, finished stronger at the rim, fought through screens) and he had a much higher BBIQ and winning mentality.

Collison has a personality of a rock. And he is softer than Roddy.

This.

JJB shouldn't be compared to Collison. For the above reasons and more.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

JJB's x factor was heart, hustle, and want-to. I only see that in increments with Collison.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by markus1234

JJB >>>> Collison

Not even close.

JJB was much more physical (took charges, finished stronger at the rim, fought through screens) and he had a much higher BBIQ and winning mentality.

Collison has a personality of a rock. And he is softer than Roddy.

Softer than roddy, now that's just not fair.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

People don't remember JJB contributing to our championship but he did.

Wait, what?

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by 41mvp

Tell me when he scored 15 points or more last time?Just look around and what you see?I want to tell you what i see when i look at Dirk.He is not feel comfortable when he is with Mayo on the floor.And thats the point ,if Dirk is not happy this team sucks.

You have right in the secound case he might be effective part of playoff team, if he won t play in the 4thQ.

Player become a superstar when he leads his team to the championship (like Dirk)Mayo will never do it .

You're clearly not watching games:

2/26: 18 pts
2/11: 19 pts
2/9: 19 pts
2/6: 28 pts
2/1: 20 pts

Over the month of Feb avg 14.9 pts a game. Of course you play him in the 4th. If he's the 3rd scoring option you don't have to rely on him being the go to guy. You're going to blame Mayo for Dirk shooting 4 of 11 last night? Blame the PGs for not giving Dirk more touches, like the string of 5 Mike James attempts in a row in the 4th quarter. Without Mayo's performance this season, the team easily has a .3 ish record. There is no team in the NBA in which every player is a superstar. Role players are just as important and IMHO Mayo would be a very good fit as the number 3 scoring option.

I will admit to being bullish on Mayo at the season's start but clearly he's not someone you build a team around. The Mavs problem isn't Mayo specifically, its lack of depth at the guard position (Collison should really be coming off the bench like JJ did) and general lack of post defense (though this is starting to improve).

[41mvp]

2/26: 18 pts
2/11: 19 pts
2/9: 19 pts
2/6: 28 pts
2/1: 20 pts

yeah you try defend him so much but you waste your time.Take a look for this break(we played against Sacramento,Orlando,New Orlans and LAL)hi is not regular player.Yesterday he scored 15 points so please, dont defend him.

He is not like Caron Butler and he doesnt fit here.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Wait, what?

My thoughts exactly.

JJB starting and helping turn around the finals, JJB drawing an offensive foul on LeBron in the post, and JJB destroying the Lakers with the pick and roll are some of the most vivid Mavs memories I have.

[purplefrog]

I'd take JJB over Collison in a New York minute. He's smarter, more physical, hustles his butt off, and has incredible heart. Collison has more pure athletic ability, but JJB leaves it all on the court every night. That mentality and effort is infectious, just like a lackadaisical attitude is contagious. Hint... hint... hint.

Collison and Mayo would be excellent if they weren't asked to initiate and orchestrate the offense in crunch time. If you could keep them as role players then they would be great but I suspect both will get offers greater than what the Mavs will be willing to pay. I hope they are used for sign and trade material to sweeten the pot for a real PG or 5.

It's time for RC to give Morrow some burn. The Mavs need to figure out if he is worth trying to re-sign as a shooting specialist.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by 41mvp

2/26: 18 pts
2/11: 19 pts
2/9: 19 pts
2/6: 28 pts
2/1: 20 pts

yeah you try defend him so much but you waste your time.Take a look for this break(we played against Sacramento,Orlando,New Orlans and LAL)hi is not regular player.Yesterday he scored 15 points so please, dont defend him.

He is not like Caron Butler and he doesnt fit here.

I don't need to defend him, he's delivered. Trying to hang this season on his shoulders is ridiculous. We didn't loose last night due to Mayo's play but team play as a whole. Mayo can't be held personally responsible for the team as a whole scoring 5 points in the 3rd quarter. No question Mayo stunk last night and turnovers continue to be an issue. But really, who played good? What did you see outside the first quarter which looked like a winning team?

Memphis beat us shooting 38%. The only player shooting over 50% was Marion. We shot 43% on the game but if you take Marion out of the the rest of the team shot 39%. Mike James shot 20% on 2 of 10, down from his average of just under 30%. Really Carlisle? Think about that. Our coach let a 30% season shooter take the same amount of shots (10) as Dirk (11).

[41mvp]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

quarter. No question Mayo stunk last night and turnovers continue to be an issue.

And thats the piont,he has been stinking all season long(except first 10 games when he was great )
I hope Cuban is not blind and he will make right call.(and we wont see Mayo again)

On the other hand this whole team is not good enough for playoffs run.Carlisle is very good coach,but like so many people here said he killed Roddy and our other young guy.Its very strong hit for this team and it will be kill us in the future.

[j0Shi]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I also find it interesting that these two guys are catching so much flak (some of it deserved) while our 8M "all star caliber" starting center is getting a free pass.

Chris Kaman being terrible is a pretty big part of why this team is bad.

I'd blame coaching/Chris 50:50 on not making it work. He has proven he can be so much better, so this whole thing is sure irritating.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

I'd blame coaching/Chris 50:50 on not making it work. He has proven he can be so much better, so this whole thing is sure irritating.

Well his low post skills aren't being utilized. Of course, we don't have pgs who know have to make simple entry passes into the post.

[j0Shi]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Well his low post skills aren't being utilized. Of course, we don't have pgs who know have to make simple entry passes into the post.

It's not the whole story, but Kaman and especially Dirk doesn't seem to be a good fit. On defense they multiply their weaknesses instead of canceling out and on offense they like to operate in the same areas.

[DGM]

oj=coach killer. you can't teach responding well to pressure. you do or you don' and oj doesn't

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by 41mvp

And thats the piont,he has been stinking all season long(except first 10 games when he was great )
I hope Cuban is not blind and he will make right call.(and we wont see Mayo again)

On the other hand this whole team is not good enough for playoffs run.Carlisle is very good coach,but like so many people here said he killed Roddy and our other young guy.Its very strong hit for this team and it will be kill us in the future.

But that's where I disagree. I can't defend his turnovers, something needs to be fixed there. But how else does he suck? Let me put it to you another way, what superstar are you expecting to place at shooting guard for $4 mil? If we can grab Calderon (and retain Collison off the bench) and one of the upper tier centers this offseason (and keep James as our backup), the majority of this teams issues will be resolved.

[OneLove22]

OLADIPOOOO!!!!!!

[41mvp]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

But that's where I disagree. I can't defend his turnovers, something needs to be fixed there. But how else does he suck? Let me put it to you another way, what superstar are you expecting to place at shooting guard for $4 mil? If we can grab Calderon (and retain Collison off the bench) and one of the upper tier centers this offseason (and keep James as our backup), the majority of this teams issues will be resolved.

let me think...o yeah why Mayo left Memphis?Is he want to be a starter?Is he want to be a superstar? I dont care that he is playing with us for 4 mil(it is too much for him)He told us that he want to be a starter and he will do everything to be get better.And what?He is disappointing us all season long.I don t wanna argue with you,but you have to understand that: Mayo is like Lamar Odom

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by 41mvp

let me think...o yeah why Mayo left Memphis?Is he want to be a starter?Is he want to be a superstar? I dont care that he is playing with us for 4 mil(it is too much for him)He told us that he want to be a starter and he will do everything to be get better.And what?He is disappointing us all season long.I don t wanna argue with you,but you have to understand that: Mayo is like Lamar Odom

Stop it. That is ridiculous.

Nothing even close to L.O.

Mayo is trying and he wants to be here. That alone makes him 10 fold L.O.

Your opinion on this is the only thing Lamar Odom like.

[Kante]

41mvp becoming one of the worst posters around here...

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Stop it. That is ridiculous.

Nothing even close to L.O.

Mayo is trying and he wants to be here. That alone makes him 10 fold L.O.

Your opinion on this is the only thing Lamar Odom like.

10 folds? Yeah, that's pretty much what Odom's belly looked like while he was here.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

10 folds? Yeah, that's pretty much what Odom's belly looked like while he was here.

Dude, it's rude to call a man's wife his 'belly.'

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

10 folds? Yeah, that's pretty much what Odom's belly looked like while he was here.

Well played.

[sike]

On the useless JJB v Collison, the difference I would point is how much better JJB was in the P&R game. Which is one area where Dirk most thrives.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by clutch#41

strongly disagree. how many pass 1st pgs are left in this league? like 5? ellis with 13 assts and counting but hey hes not a PG

Dude, step away from the keyboard. You're talking nonsense.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by sike

On the useless JJB v Collison, the difference I would point is how much better JJB was in the P&R game. Which is one area where Dirk most thrives.

I've never seen guards so inept at using a pick.

[41mvp]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Stop it. That is ridiculous.

Nothing even close to L.O.

Mayo is trying and he wants to be here. That alone makes him 10 fold L.O.

Your opinion on this is the only thing Lamar Odom like.

it is my way of thinking about this case.I dont like Mayo and i will punish him for every single mistake,
And one more thing with Odom we made Playoffs.Just think about it

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by 41mvp

it is my way of thinking about this case.I dont like Mayo and i will punish him for every single mistake,
And one more thing with Odom we made Playoffs.Just think about it

Sheesh..with odom, jet, jkiddo, Haywood, mahinmi. You know that old broken excuse of a basketball team. The one absent some pieces had just won a chip.

You really believe what you just wrote?

[41mvp]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Sheesh..with odom, jet, jkiddo, Haywood, mahinmi. You know that old broken excuse of a basketball team. The one absent some pieces had just won a chip.

You really believe what you just wrote?

yes Sir.I believe in our team, but with Mayo we wont do anything.We lost many of great players ,it s true.I hoped that Mayo can replace Jet and Colison Kidd.But its not working as you can see.So i still want next championship and i think with Mayo in roster we wont do that.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by 41mvp

yes Sir.I believe in our team, but with Mayo we wont do anything.We lost many of great players ,it s true.I hoped that Mayo can replace Jet and Colison Kidd.But its not working as you can see.So i still want next championship and i think with Mayo in roster we wont do that.

Wow. You're really just trolling at this point.

The main reason our record is so poor this year is missing Dirk for so long. Look at the Mavs record last year when Dirk was out. Don't kid yourself into thinking last year's team was any better than this year's team. We haven't been a real contender since the 2011 championship.

You clearly have a bias against Mayo which doesn't allow you to see his true value to the team. He's good enough to be a starter, just not the number 1 (or really even number 2) scoring option on the team. Think about his role in a scenario in which he serves as more of a spot up shooter and the second man on a break away. Completely and totally effective in that role. And the cost we got him for absolutely matters. Despite all the complaining about Cubes not spending, we are still #13 on the salary list. We will not be able to spend our way out of this until Nowitski's and Marion's current contracts com off the books in 2014.

Regarding Collison/Kidd, have you watched Kidd at all this year? We dodged the bullet on that one as he's declining extremely fast. Collison isn't good at the pick and role, which is why he should be coming off the bench to provide some speed and scoring with a secondary unit when Dirk is also sitting.

If we can get a deal on both at the end of this year, the Mavs would be stupid to pass as we're going to have to spend bigger on C and starting PG. Every team needs role players.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by 41mvp

it is my way of thinking about this case.I dont like Mayo and i will punish him for every single mistake,
And one more thing with Odom we made Playoffs.Just think about it

Oh. Ok.

[sike]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I've never seen guards so inept at using a pick.

I simply don't understand it. Isn't P&R still Basketball 101?

Its a foreign thought to me that a guard could grow up his entire hoop life, attain the highest levels of success, and not be a master at the pick and roll.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by 41mvp

it is my way of thinking about this case.I dont like Mayo and i will punish him for every single mistake,
And one more thing with Odom we made Playoffs.Just think about it

Serious question: did you watch a single game last season?

[41mvp]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Serious question: did you watch a single game last season?

I was watching more games than you think

[41mvp]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

Wow. You're really just trolling at this point.

The main reason our record is so poor this year is missing Dirk for so long. Look at the Mavs record last year when Dirk was out. Don't kid yourself into thinking last year's team was any better than this year's team. We haven't been a real contender since the 2011 championship.

You clearly have a bias against Mayo which doesn't allow you to see his true value to the team. He's good enough to be a starter, just not the number 1 (or really even number 2) scoring option on the team. Think about his role in a scenario in which he serves as more of a spot up shooter and the second man on a break away. Completely and totally effective in that role. And the cost we got him for absolutely matters. Despite all the complaining about Cubes not spending, we are still #13 on the salary list. We will not be able to spend our way out of this until Nowitski's and Marion's current contracts com off the books in 2014.

Regarding Collison/Kidd, have you watched Kidd at all this year?

If we can get a deal on both at the end of this year, the Mavs would be stupid to pass as we're going to have to spend bigger on C and starting PG. Every team needs role players.

Yes he did but now he is in the game and we still loosing.So something is wrong with this team, is it?And our front office should fix it,i hope that they do something.(i truly hope that they will find someone big )

Have you seen my last post ?I said that i dont like Mayo.So yes i am bias against him.And i wont stop attack his self.He is not effective and he do not nothing good for this team.

You mean Mayo,do you?If he will sit on the bench,i can stand him,But if he will play as a starter,i will be still mad.

[BGMaverick9]

This will be a topic covered this weekend when I co-host Mavs Magazine on ESPN 103.3 (Saturday 10 am).

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by 41mvp

Yes he did but now he is in the game and we still loosing.So something is wrong with this team, is it?And our front office should fix it,i hope that they do something.(i truly hope that they will find someone big )

Have you seen my last post ?I said that i dont like Mayo.So yes i am bias against him.And i wont stop attack his self.He is not effective and he do not nothing good for this team.

You mean Mayo,do you?If he will sit on the bench,i can stand him,But if he will play as a starter,i will be still mad.

Emotions clouding your judgement. Look at the NBA shooting guards this season. Mayo's numbers are flirting with the top 10. Who would you prefer the Mavs have at SG this season? Terry? Who else was available who would have been better?

In comparison, would you prefer maybe Andre Iguodala? He's earning 13 mil with a lower PER putting up less points, with a lower shooting percentage, and matching his turnovers. Gerald Henderson maybe? He makes less than OJ, but again lower PER giving up points and assists (though less turnovers) and missed a big part of the season due to an injury. J.R Smith? There's an attractive contract! But again lower PER and you give up both points and assists but you do get better defense for sure.

Now one could make the argument that you might want to start Carter and bring Mayo off the bench, but you for sure now going to give up assists. Outside of Wade, Harden, Bryant, Redick and Ginobili you're not going to find many shooting guards right now which are going to be miles better than OJ especially on this team offense in which the SG is a secondary (at the highest) scoring option.

OJ may choke in late game scenarios, no doubt. But many of those games wouldn't have even been in a position to choke without his positive contributions throughout games. Our biggest issues are at the point guard and center positions.

[41mvp]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

Emotions clouding your judgement. Look at the NBA shooting guards this season. Mayo's numbers are flirting with the top 10. Who would you prefer the Mavs have at SG this season? Terry? Who else was available who would have been better?

In comparison, would you prefer maybe Andre Iguodala? He's earning 13 mil with a lower PER putting up less points, with a lower shooting percentage, and matching his turnovers. Gerald Henderson maybe? He makes less than OJ, but again lower PER giving up points and assists (though less turnovers) and missed a big part of the season due to an injury. J.R Smith? There's an attractive contract! But again lower PER and you give up both points and assists but you do get better defense for sure.

Now one could make the argument that you might want to start Carter and bring Mayo off the bench, but you for sure now going to give up assists. Outside of Wade, Harden, Bryant, Redick and Ginobili you're not going to find many shooting guards right now which are going to be miles better than OJ especially on this team offense in which the SG is a secondary (at the highest) scoring option.

OJ may choke in late game scenarios, no doubt. But many of those games wouldn't have even been in a position to choke without his positive contributions throughout games. Our biggest issues are at the point guard and center positions.

Terry was better than OJ.No question about it.He was clutch player for us and he gave us what we need.Did you remember Dirk/Jet pick and rool?It was perfect!And what we have now?Nothing !No clutch players(except Dirk)Terry was(and is) one of the best Mavs player ever.How about Andre Iguodala he is worth his price.One of the best defencive player in the league(no doubt about it)He is much better than Mayo. Gerald Henderson no way!

You found 5 how about Monta Ellis,Marcus Thornton,Danny Green,Kawhi Leonard,Kevin Martin...and more.Dont forget about this guys ,they are much more better than Mayo.

Yeah you have right about PG an C position.I agree with you.