Paul Gasol Anyone? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Simon2 · 05-03-2005, 01:01 PM

Looks like the Grizz will be rebuilt. Imagine a front line of Dirk and Gasol!

LRB · 05-03-2005, 01:06 PM

The grizz aren't just going to give us gasol. So who do you think that we'd have to give up to get him?

Simon2 · 05-03-2005, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB
The grizz aren't just going to give us gasol. So who do you think that we'd have to give up to get him?

I think a Dirk for Gasol exchange is nuts even for West. Would you do a Gasol for Dampier and Terry?

rakesh.s · 05-03-2005, 01:39 PM

Gasol is likely staying put..They need a second superstar to play alongside him ala mcgrady or kobe

grndmstr_c · 05-03-2005, 01:47 PM

I don't know that I'd be all that interested in giving up what I'd expect it would take to get Gasol (not that I have a clear idea of what that is - it's just that, as the closest thing to a franchise player they've got I don't expect he'd be cheap). They do have some intriguing players on that team, though, and after their second straight playoff sweep there should be some action worth keeping an eye on with the Grizz' roster.

dalmations202 · 05-03-2005, 03:06 PM

How about a Dampier/ Daniels exchange for him. Or maybe a Daniels, Stackhouse, Bradley.

That would allow Terry to play some more 2. Fin, Howard, and KVH at the 3.

I am not sure how good it makes you since Gasol can't cover Amare though, but it is an intriguing idea.

bo319 · 05-03-2005, 05:38 PM

Gasol stays there.

Some of the guys they are probably looking to lose are the knuckleheads on the team. Bonzi, JWill, maybe Swift, maybe Posey. Build the team around Gasol, Miller, and ?.
The guy I'd like to get from them if possible is Battier. He is just the kind of hard working defensive minded guy that AJ would love. Plus in a small ball lineup he could play the 4 and let Josh play the 3 with Dirk as he is somewhat bigger than Josh. I wouldn't give up much to get him as he is not worth Stack and is making a heck of a lot less than KVH so we would probably have to take back a bad deal as well like Cardinal.

LRB · 05-03-2005, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: bo319
Gasol stays there.

Some of the guys they are probably looking to lose are the knuckleheads on the team. Bonzi, JWill, maybe Swift, maybe Posey. Build the team around Gasol, Miller, and ?.
The guy I'd like to get from them if possible is Battier. He is just the kind of hard working defensive minded guy that AJ would love. Plus in a small ball lineup he could play the 4 and let Josh play the 3 with Dirk as he is somewhat bigger than Josh. I wouldn't give up much to get him as he is not worth Stack and is making a heck of a lot less than KVH so we would probably have to take back a bad deal as well like Cardinal.

I like how Battier fits our team much better than Gasol. Battier also has a pretty good 3pt shot which wouldn't hurt at all.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-03-2005, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Simon2
Looks like the Grizz will be rebuilt. Imagine a front line of Dirk and Gasol!

Never in a million years. Would you like to have Gasol as our center? He, not KVH, is the poor man's Dirk Nowitzki. I cringe at the thought of having a PF with sub-par defensive skills as our center. We've all seen that before here and it never works. He can't play 3 either. Gasol is a 4, just like Dirk. Not a 3, or a 5. I'll take Damp over Gasol next to Dirk anyday.

DubOverdose · 05-03-2005, 08:54 PM

I wouldn't mind seeing Gasol in a Mavs uni. He's young, athletic, talented, and big. From what I've seen of him, he's great in the post.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-03-2005, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: DubOverdose
I wouldn't mind seeing Gasol in a Mavs uni.

I think Memphis would.

fin4life · 05-03-2005, 09:25 PM

Dont want him. It would do nothing but put Dirk at the 3, or he would be coming off the bench. I think he is too good for that... I'd rather just have KVH be our backup 4 for the time being. Not interested

GP · 05-04-2005, 02:58 AM

I think the real question should be: How many Mavs players are going to get traded this offseason? Should the over and under start around 7 or 8 players?

My thinking on this:

1st round exit--9 players
2nd round exit--8 players
Conference finals exit--7 players
Lose in championships--6 players
Win championship--Everybody but Dirk! Cause their value will never be greater.

aexchange · 05-04-2005, 07:46 AM

i definately wouldnt mind battier. he's a very smart, high basketball IQ kind of player who is willing to be a solid role player.

if we could trade daniels for battier, i think its a pretty easy no brainer.

kingrex · 05-04-2005, 09:36 AM

Pau Gasol is a solid power forward, and he would look great in a Mavs uniform.

BUT

wake up and realize that no one outside of Dirk Nowitzki would be enough to pry him from Memphis. He is their centerpiece and if Jerry West gives him up, then it means the Logo has been spending too much time down in Beale St. than he should.

dalmations202 · 05-04-2005, 09:59 AM

Pau is a 5. He is a high post 5 IMO. I guess he is a power forward, but not of the Nowitzki type of Power Forward. His game is in the post, and the mid range stuff. He has no real range. I like him as a player, and think he would look good in a Mavs uni. He is not anywhere near Dirk though. Not even close. His numbers are closer to Fin's or Stacks. I don't think he is a max type player either. He is very good though. I think his offense would be great for an inside/outside with Dirk. He is big, mobile, and a descent inside force.

Him and Stromile in a package deal might be awesome.

If they wouldn't settle for less than Dirk, I wouldn't settle for less than Dirk -- so keep Dirk, becuase Pau is definately less than Dirk as a player.

kingrex · 05-04-2005, 10:32 AM

I agree that Dirk has more upside than Pau, but do you really think Memphis would trade Pau for anyone less than Dirk?

dalmations202 · 05-04-2005, 10:46 AM

Quote:

I agree that Dirk has more upside than Pau, but do you really think Memphis would trade Pau for anyone less than Dirk?

I doubt it, but if they have decided to go another direction because Pau isn't going to win the championship w/o lots of help -- then maybe. I think it would take giving them a Big and the only one I think they would consider is Dampier, and a young that they think can score and play D -- maybe Daniels.

With that said, they would also want you to take a non-fitting piece of their puzzle like Williams, Wells, etc.

kingrex · 05-04-2005, 10:53 AM

Grizzlies that I would take if the price was right:

1) Pau Gasol
2) Earl Watson
3) Shane Battier
4) James Posey
5) Lorenzen Wright

Grizzlies that I would never take:

1) Jason Williams
2) Stromile Swift
3) Bonzi Wells

dalmations202 · 05-04-2005, 10:59 AM

Why Lorenzen Wright? and why wouldn't you take Swift?

Other than that, I wouldn't argue much. I would put Battier at 2 and Watson at 3 as well though.

grndmstr_c · 05-04-2005, 12:30 PM

Quote:

I agree that Dirk has more upside than Pau, but do you really think Memphis would trade Pau for anyone less than Dirk?

It's not upside. Dirk's just flat-out better than Pau, who IMO will never been anything more than a 2nd tier PF mkaing near first-tier money. Not that that's necessarily all that bad. I'd just be concerned about having to give up too much youth to get him, because, honestly, the Grizz should know better than to even pick up the phone if they think they could get Dirk for Pau.

kingrex · 05-04-2005, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dalmations202
Why Lorenzen Wright? and why wouldn't you take Swift?

Other than that, I wouldn't argue much. I would put Battier at 2 and Watson at 3 as well though.

I like how professionally he approaches the game. I think he has the right attitude for the Mavs and Swift seems like a lazy player. He has alot of athleticism, but he seems to be out there half-arsing it.

If Watson came to Dallas, I believe he would be the starter. He plays defense and is quick as a whip on offense. I think Harris would eventually surpass him, but right now he would be the best point guard in Dallas.

I like Battier too, and wouldn't put up much of a fuss if you moved him over Watson.

kingrex · 05-04-2005, 04:26 PM

the dreaded double post.

dalmations202 · 05-04-2005, 04:47 PM

Quote:

I like how professionally he approaches the game. I think he has the right attitude for the Mavs and Swift seems like a lazy player. He has alot of athleticism, but he seems to be out there half-arsing it.

I just don't think that Wright gives you anything that you presently don't already have. He is a good player, but not a difference maker, IMO. Swift has much more upside, and although may half-azzed.... he has the athleticism to cover a McGrady, Amare, VC, R Lewis, Peja, etc. I think he might be the player that the Mavs are missing (but not sure at all). I was just thinking that he might be that big athletic defensive frontcourt player that would allow Dirk to play the 5 on defense with teams that have no offensive type center anyway -- allowing him to rest more on D and be the offside help.

LRB · 05-04-2005, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dalmations202

Quote:

I like how professionally he approaches the game. I think he has the right attitude for the Mavs and Swift seems like a lazy player. He has alot of athleticism, but he seems to be out there half-arsing it.

I just don't think that Wright gives you anything that you presently don't already have. He is a good player, but not a difference maker, IMO. Swift has much more upside, and although may half-azzed.... he has the athleticism to cover a McGrady, Amare, VC, R Lewis, Peja, etc. I think he might be the player that the Mavs are missing (but not sure at all). I was just thinking that he might be that big athletic defensive frontcourt player that would allow Dirk to play the 5 on defense with teams that have no offensive type center anyway -- allowing him to rest more on D and be the offside help.

Swift is a PF/C and is very quick and athletic for that position. However I don't see him being able to effectively guard most 2's and 3's. McGrady is a SG/SF, VC is a SG/SF, R Lewis is a SF, and Peja is a SF. I don't see Swift hanging with them. Maybe Amare although he sure didn't seem to do much in Memphis playoff run against Phoenix. Swift might be a better answer to guarding Yao since he is the type of player which seems to give Yao the most problems. But unless Swift loses his half-arsing ways and goes to work year round on improving his D, I really don't see him shutting down consistently any of the top PF/C's and I don't ever see him being able to shut down top tier SG's and SF's.

kingrex · 05-04-2005, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dalmations202

I just don't think that Wright gives you anything that you presently don't already have. He is a good player, but not a difference maker, IMO. Swift has much more upside, and although may half-azzed.... he has the athleticism to cover a McGrady, Amare, VC, R Lewis, Peja, etc. I think he might be the player that the Mavs are missing (but not sure at all). I was just thinking that he might be that big athletic defensive frontcourt player that would allow Dirk to play the 5 on defense with teams that have no offensive type center anyway -- allowing him to rest more on D and be the offside help.

I put Wright at the bottom the list mainly because out of all the ones I would want from their roster, he would be at the bottom. I don't think he's the only guy we could get out there, but if we did, and if we got him for the right price, then I wouldn't be upset.

RE: Swift, I agree he's got a lot of potential, but from what I've seen of him, I just think he might not have the work ethic to be truly successful in the NBA. I could be wrong.

dalmations202 · 05-04-2005, 06:03 PM

Who is the guy that can shut down/limit Amare, TMac, VC, Lewis? ? Maybe Artest and AK47? Anyone the Mavs might have a shot at?

LRB · 05-04-2005, 06:05 PM

Against TMac, VC, and Lewis Josh Howard is certainly much better at limiting them than Swift ever would be.

kingrex · 05-04-2005, 06:54 PM

There are very few swingmen who have defensive shutdown capabilities. Ones that come to mind are Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest and Kobe Bryant. I think Josh Howard has the potential to become that if he can bulk up a little more.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-05-2005, 12:54 AM

yet another double post [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

Thespiralgoeson · 05-05-2005, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dalmations202
Who is the guy that can shut down/limit Amare, TMac, VC, Lewis? ? Maybe Artest and AK47? Anyone the Mavs might have a shot at?

You're all over the place. All of those guys play different positions. However, I imagine AK might be able to guard all of them. Artest is phenominal at shutting down 2's and 3's, but he IS insane, and has single-handedly destroyed Indiana's title run. I say continue to develop Howard, and stay away from Artest. AK would be great. But it looks like Utah is trying to rebuild their franchise around AK, so we'll never get him.

dalmations202 · 05-05-2005, 07:06 AM

Here is my problem with your -- they play different positions idea. All work off extreme athletic ability. Tmac is 6'8", Lewis 6'10", VC 6'6", Amare 6'10"

I guess I shouldn't have included VC, but the premise is the same. JHoward is good, but he is 6'6". Swift is 6'9" which puts him much closer -- although I don't know if he is that type of player. AK and Artest are 6'9".

That is the kind of player that I think they need.

LRB · 05-05-2005, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dalmations202
Here is my problem with your -- they play different positions idea. All work off extreme athletic ability. Tmac is 6'8", Lewis 6'10", VC 6'6", Amare 6'10"

I guess I shouldn't have included VC, but the premise is the same. JHoward is good, but he is 6'6". Swift is 6'9" which puts him much closer -- although I don't know if he is that type of player. AK and Artest are 6'9".

That is the kind of player that I think they need.

NBA.com list Josh Howard at 6'7" 210 lbs not the 6'6" that you list. Further more Josh would never be the main man to guard Amare, not because of Josh's height per say, but because Amare is so damn strong. But I'd rather have Josh Howard on Amare than Swift, because IMO Swift wouldn't do a much better job guarding Amare and Josh would more than make up for that difference on offense.

As for TMac, VC, and Lewis, Swift has neither the foot speed nor the lateral quickness to have a prayer of guarding these players. Swift is quick for those who play the power position, and he has extra muscle mass to help him with the strength of those who play that position. However TMac, Lewis, and VC rely far more on quickness than muscle unlike those who play the power positions.

BTW Ron Artest is listed by NBA.com at 6'7", the same as Josh Howard.

dalmations202 · 05-05-2005, 08:53 AM

ok, you have me convinced that Swift isn't the guy.

Who is out there that is 6'8" - 6'10" , strong as an ox, and quick as a deer; that Dallas would have a shot at getting in the off-season.

Ideally Benga develops, and Josh develops, and you have it resolved. But Josh is having all kinds of problems with TMac (alot because of height), and he can't really cover RLewis, or Peja because of height. Amare is a tough cover regardless.

I am just trying to come up with an idea.

LRB · 05-05-2005, 09:57 AM

Of all the things that Josh is having trouble with in guarding TMac, height is the least of our worries. Really 1" in height is nothing. Josh has more trouble with quickness by a factor of 10 or more than with height. Also, Josh needs more experience and learn how to play smarter. Finally Josh needs to learn the refs better and establish his rep with the reps more. I don't see any reason why Josh can't be effective in time against Peja and Lewis. Most certainly not because of his height. Bruce Bowen and Ron Artest are regarded as 2 of the very best defenders against SG/SF's in the NBA. Both are the same height as Josh. I really think that height is a mute point. I really don't see a decided quickness advantage that Artest nor Bowen have over Howard, so I really think that it's a matter of skill and possibly strength, although Josh is 10 lbs heavier than Bowen. Next year will be Josh's 1st full year with a defensive minded head coach. I'm willing to give Josh a year or two to see how he develops.

Now as to who we can get, well Artest would be the 1st name that comes to mind. Indy is going to have a fire sale on Artest after his latest antics. Question is A) do we want to pay what it takes to get Artest and B) do we want his attitude on our team, especially when he can easily get himself suspended for a season if his past behavior continues.

dalmations202 · 05-05-2005, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Now as to who we can get, well Artest would be the 1st name that comes to mind. Indy is going to have a fire sale on Artest after his latest antics. Question is A) do we want to pay what it takes to get Artest and B) do we want his attitude on our team, especially when he can easily get himself suspended for a season if his past behavior continues.

Funny how the heights are listed different in different places. Just watching TMac on Josh though, it doesn't seem to be 1" , more like 2-3". I agree that it is only about an inch on Fin though. Now if it is quickness and not height, and Fin is slower than Howard, is it just the eperience of Fin that is allowing him to cover TMac better (IMO) ? Or is it the muscle/weight? Or am I mistaken, and Howard is doing a better job covering TMac?

Artest is a gamble. A BIG gamble. One that could pay off greatly or destroy the team. Wow, I don't know if that is the right idea or not. If you take away the emotion of "you love him or hate him" -- he is quite the talent. Question is, would a new start allow him to be the kind of player that Dallas needs. AK and Lewis seem like much better bets, but I don't think you could get either of them.

LRB · 05-05-2005, 11:30 AM

IMO Josh's biggest problems are skill and experience when guarding players like TMac. I think that his height is more than adequate as is his quickness. I really don't see Josh being any slower than a Bruce Bowen.

Now as to who we can get for defensive purposes for SG/SF's, players who aren't top tier stoppers but who are pretty good are Shane Battier and James Posey from Memphis. I'm prefer Shane over Posey though because Shane is more balanced.

For Centers, we already have Damp who is one of the best if he can stay out of foul trouble and Bradley isn't bad. For PF's, Henderson is pretty good. We could pick up a Dale Davis who still has some life if not much in him, but I doubt that we could get him.

But Honestly I think that with a full season of Avery working with the talent that we have, we'll be all right defensively. So if a great deal comes along, sure I say take it. But by no means do I feel that we have to go out and make a deal happen.

dalmations202 · 05-05-2005, 12:47 PM

Quote:

So if a great deal comes along, sure I say take it. But by no means do I feel that we have to go out and make a deal happen.

Absolutely agreed.

kingrex · 05-06-2005, 10:38 AM

One thing about the playoffs, it exposes your weaknesses, and defending McGrady is our weakness (probably a weakness for most teams in the NBA).

There's no reason to believe that McGrady will be leaving Houston, so the Mavs will be seeing him in the playoffs every year for a long time.

So, what can the Mavs do to match-up better with McGrady?

Option 1: Wait until Howard (or even Daniels) get better defensively.

Option 2: Trade for someone who will be a better defensive match-up against McGrady. The question then, is who?

As I mentioned above, the only ones the come to mind right now are Bowen and Artest, and their respective teams would never trade them away. So, I believe that option 1 is the only realistic option right now. And personally, I think Josh has a lot more growing to do both skills-wise and experience-wise (as LRB pointed out).

dalmations202 · 05-06-2005, 01:30 PM

I think he needs weight and strength more than anything. That w/o losing the speed and quickness.