Game 3 game thread

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by turin

I think the Mav's offensive system is one of KP's biggest problems. He ends up being the world's tallest shooting guard standing around on the perimeter.

Don't get me started about the defense. There is an option called a zone, and the Mavs do have an athletic defender named Green, but we already know how that option will play out.

The Mavs cannot outshoot opponents in a 7 game series playing no defense.



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The problem is KP. He just isn't that good. His low post efficiency across his career is suboptimal for a big guy. The trade was still worth it as we got THJ.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Did you even read the comments

Someone asked if Luka should play 40 minutes a night and my response was why not

He's younger than AD/LeBron and Booker/Ayton

40 minutes a night in the playoffs should be expected for him plus you get more TV timeouts so if takes Luka playing 40-42 minutes a night in order to win so be it

Not all 40 minutes are created equal. None of those guys have the same usage rate as Luka. They all have secondary ball handlers CP3 and Dennis. Obviously the centers usage rate is lower.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Yet another tale of Luka and the b squad. Sad because it wasn't that way the first two games.

If KP doesn't show up, then the series will be lost. I've held off all of the hate all year long, but I think we've finally run out of excuses for him. Just force feed him the ball if you have to. It needs to be absolutely clear that he won't work on this team. I just can't for the life of me understand why he only took 10 shots?

I think I’m in the same boat. I’ve tried to hold off on hating because we have seen he has the talent to be a star in this league, but man wtf? It’s like he just doesn’t have the drive to be great. I agree with force feeding him the ball. Get him down on the block early with a smaller guy on him and let him do work. Clearly the Clips are switching on every pick, so getting a smaller defender on him shouldn’t be tough.

I think I’m on board with dumping him in the off-season, but realistically what are you going to get for him? He’s damaged goods at this point, and the free agent class is less than stellar this offseason.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by turin

I think the Mav's offensive system is one of KP's biggest problems. He ends up being the world's tallest shooting guard standing around on the perimeter.

Don't get me started about the defense. There is an option called a zone, and the Mavs do have an athletic defender named Green, but we already know how that option will play out.

The Mavs cannot outshoot opponents in a 7 game series playing no defense.



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I think it's the system that hurts KP

It's a flow offense which means Luka is going to find the open shooter

DFS and Kleber are left open more than KP so that's why KP repeatedly goes 5 minutes or more between shots unless the mavs call a designed play for him.

I will also say this while most fans might disagree KP doesn't really deviate from the offense by that I mean he rarely forces the issue he will move the ball quickly to try and find a player that has a better shot than him.

To me that is his biggest downfall because although he wants to fit into the system it makes him less aggressive in terms of getting up volume shots compared to say THJ

Dude shoots 38% from 3 but he really doesn't take as many 3's as people make it out to be

I think game 2 he took like 4 3's and yesterday was about the same amount

He's not out hoisting 8-10 threes per game which I think he needs to do in order to get more involved in this offensive system.

I also believe his Minutes need to stay around 28-32 which allows WCS to play more off the bench for defense.

Not top many people have mentioned him but WCS has been a positive influence defensively this series he just hasn't played enough minutes IMO

He's the only big agile enough to switch and recover

Also, I doubt they play zone but I agree it would help KP to stay closer to the rim for protection on defense and get him out of those switches were the clippers perimeter players feast on him much like Luka feasting on Zubac on the other end

It really can't hurt the mavs to use it somewhat because right not Kleber, DFS or THJ none of them are stopping Leonard or George in straight man or double teams

[mac222b]

KP has been terrible but he has been better and quicker passing out of the double team or even single coverage on the block when he doesn’t have a rhythm shot. We got some open 3s out of that last night— I counted 3. He did have one egregious turnover where he failed to feel/see the double coming from behind. I think Kawhi stripped him.

I do think they have to get him going early. KP will be amped up after such a bad performance. Get him engaged early.

[Dallas41]

This is in regards to those who mentioned that Doncic should have stayed on the floor after his hot start

First-quarter
Key moments:
Ty Lue made two adjustments in game 3. First, he replaced Patrick Beverley with Reggie Jackson in the starting lineup. Second, he assigned Kawhi Leonard to guard Tim Hardaway Jr.at the beginning of the game. Hardaway Jr. was averaging 24.5 points on 65 percent three-point shooting, so Lue decided to shut him down early. That meant Kristaps Porzingis was defended by a big man in Ivica Zubac.

The Mavericks came out of the gate, firing on all cylinders in front of the home crowd. They outscored the Clippers 28 - 11 in the first seven minutes of the game, led by Luka Dončić who scored 11 points, and hit 3 of 4 of these three-point shots. Early on it seemed that the Clippers are on the verge of a major collapse.

The key moment of the quarter (and probably of the whole game) happened when Dončić came out of the game with 4:52 left in the game. Dallas struggled again in non-Dončić minutes. In three and a half minutes of play (until Dončić checked back in), Dallas was outscored 14 - 4 and lost the early momentum

What worked for Dallas:
Luka Dončić started where he left off, he went right at attacking Ivica Zubac in pick and roll. Since Zubac was guarding Porzingis we saw three Dončić Porzingis pick and roll action, and the Clippers switched Zubac on Dončić every time. Dončić scored eight points on three possessions and Ty Lue had to take a timeout after only two minutes of action. Lue took Zubac out of the game and went with the small lineup with Batum in Zubac’s place. The Clippers played small most of the game, Zubac played only 11 minutes.

Dončić and Porzingis continued attacking the Clippers with their two-man action. Porzingis made an and-one play rolling to the basket, out of a pick and roll with Dončić. Then Dončić found Porzingis with a quick pass for an early three. The Clippers looked lost on defense early on in the first quarter.


What didn’t work for Dallas

Dallas was +3 when Dončić was on the court in this game, and -13 when he was off, for a net +16. The Mavericks have struggled in non-Dončić minutes throughout the series. Kristaps Porzingis is +31 when he is on the court with Dončić, and -17 when Dončić is off.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Zeus

The problem is KP. He just isn't that good. His low post efficiency across his career is suboptimal for a big guy. The trade was still worth it as we got THJ.

This. This is so obvious to me. KP has chances and the other guys are looking for him. He doesn’t get in position on the low block with smaller guys on him. He doesn’t convert when he does get the ball.

[tap2390]

One major change for the Clips is their small ball lineup with 5 shooters out there:

Reggie - PG - Kawhi - Morris - Batum

They have figured out they don’t need a big man because Porzingis just isn’t good enough to take advantage of the matchup. Our firmly believe that our small ball lineup of:

Luka - THJ - DFS - JRich - Maxi

Is better than theirs. Alternatively, put Boban in and feed him in the post and force them to adjust and put Zubac back in. We’ll give up the long ball but the paint is where they’re killing us.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by tap2390

One major change for the Clips is their small ball lineup with 5 shooters out there:

Reggie - PG - Kawhi - Morris - Batum

They have figured out they don’t need a big man because Porzingis just isn’t good enough to take advantage of the matchup. Our firmly believe that our small ball lineup of:

Luka - THJ - DFS - JRich - Maxi

Is better than theirs. Alternatively, put Boban in and feed him in the post and force them to adjust and put Zubac back in. We’ll give up the long ball but the paint is where they’re killing us.

Wouldn't be surprised if we see heavier minutes with some of our smaller guys Sunday. I'm almost to the point of hoping we start limiting KP's minutes to help mitigate a possible career ending injury and becomes an untradeable asset.

I know Brunson has been really good but I'm a little surprised we haven't seen a little of Burke considering how good he was last season.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

40 minutes a night in the playoffs should be expected for him plus you get more TV timeouts so if takes Luka playing 40-42 minutes a night in order to win so be it

Or not...

https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/sta...49023406809089

[SMC0007]

It's laughable to blame anybody BUT KP for his failure. You can't get him on the block because he isn't strong enough to have an advantage. He can't even back down guards. The dude is just soft. It's making me ill just watching how he plays and it's not Rick's or Doncics fault. Defensively he sucks just as bad.

Get this jaggoff outta here.

[EricaLubarsky]

Luka questionable tomorrow with a neck strain

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Luka questionable tomorrow with a neck strain

Ugh. Anyone wanna buy 2 tickets.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by mac222b

KP has been terrible but he has been better and quicker passing out of the double team or even single coverage on the block when he doesn’t have a rhythm shot. We got some open 3s out of that last night— I counted 3. He did have one egregious turnover where he failed to feel/see the double coming from behind. I think Kawhi stripped him.

I do think they have to get him going early. KP will be amped up after such a bad performance. Get him engaged early.

You might be the only guy in this entire thread that pointed out his ability to pass

I don't think anyone has noticed beyond KP and Luka this team lacks good passers or guys who can actually find open shooters or cutters.

KP had 4 assists in game 3 Luka was the only other guy on the team who really had assist.

What does that say about the rest of team?

Mavsmoneyball touched on it we have too many guys with tunnel vision (shoot 1st mentally) and if they can't get off a good shot they are basically stranded and it results into bad possessions often.

Brunson is good at driving but when gets stuck in traffic you'll notice he's not really good finding open shooters which is why his assist totals are always low for a PG

But my biggest gripe is KP just seems to get less shots than half the other starters and even some bench players at times. I've rarely seen throughout these playoffs after watching all the other teams play where the teams 2nd leading scorer only gets 10 shots and goes 5 minute stretches pretty often without taking a shot.

Now maybe it's KP just not being aggressive enough looking for his shot but it just looks like as a team outside of Luka no one else really passes the ball to even get him a shot but KP will pass the ball often himself.

He just might have to play like THJ and just let it fly every time he touches the ball instead of looking to swing the ball so often.

Game 2 was a blue print as to how he can get involved inside and out but it just looked like in game 3 it was every man for himself on offense.

[Jayinem]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Luka questionable tomorrow with a neck strain

Game 1:
Game 2:
Game 3:
Game 4:
Game 5:
Game 6:

[turin]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

You might be the only guy in this entire thread that pointed out his ability to pass

I don't think anyone has noticed beyond KP and Luka this team lacks good passers or guys who can actually find open shooters or cutters.

KP had 4 assists in game 3 Luka was the only other guy on the team who really had assist.

What does that say about the rest of team?

Mavsmoneyball touched on it we have too many guys with tunnel vision (shoot 1st mentally) and if they can't get off a good shot they are basically stranded and it results into bad possessions often.

Brunson is good at driving but when gets stuck in traffic you'll notice he's not really good finding open shooters which is why his assist totals are always low for a PG

But my biggest gripe is KP just seems to get less shots than half the other starters and even some bench players at times. I've rarely seen throughout these playoffs after watching all the other teams play where the teams 2nd leading scorer only gets 10 shots and goes 5 minute stretches pretty often without taking a shot.

Now maybe it's KP just not being aggressive enough looking for his shot but it just looks like as a team outside of Luka no one else really passes the ball to even get him a shot but KP will pass the ball often himself.

He just might have to play like THJ and just let it fly every time he touches the ball instead of looking to swing the ball so often.

Game 2 was a blue print as to how he can get involved inside and out but it just looked like in game 3 it was every man for himself on offense.

I've always said that KP is an underrated passer, and I'd like to see some offense flow through him similar to what Denver does, but the 5 out isn't conducive to this. Also, people point out that KP is not good in the post. Well, to be frank, our offense rarely gives him opportunities in the post, and he's still a young guy, but I don't exactly see where the focus on developing this part of his game is going to come from if not from the coaches. A guy standing on the perimeter jacking 3's may not be required by the coaching staff to work on backing down players while in the post. Yes, KP has a responsibility in his development, but the coaching staff doesn't get a pass.

Has everybody already forgotten how the Mavs' coaching staff was copying plays from the Lakers because they were having trouble integrating him into the offense? I sure haven't, and those very same issues are still present.

My fear tonight is that RC reverts back to his small ball tendencies thinking he can better counter the Clippers smaller lineups that way. This is going to be a disaster if he goes this route. Powell, Brunson, Burke, THJ are all poor defenders, and RC's small ball lineups tend to have at least 2 if not 3 of those guys on the floor at the same time. It'll end up being a layup drill, and the Clippers will destroy the Mavs with an inside out game.

My typical answer that gets mocked is a zone with Boban in the middle. Hell, play Boban and KP together. KP typically stands around the 3-pt line on offense, so keep the bigs in the middle of the defense and make the Clippers beat you shooting while eliminating the layup drill.

On offense KP is going to be standing out by the 3-pt line anyway.

2nd unit, throw Maxi out there with WCS. Nice size with some shot blocking presence.

I'd flesh out the rest, but it's a waste of time - never going to happen. Chuckers gonna chuck, and go smaller when possible. :-/

Tonight I think the Mavs get physically dominated. :-(

I hope I'm wrong, but I've been watching this crapshow for too long to believe otherwise. All the Clippers have to do is take THJ out of the game and let Luka get his 40+. Stats will look great for Luka and the Mavs will lose unless KP steps up, and he's just not integral to the offense the way he is utilized, regardless of how many minutes he plays.

[tap2390]

Utilization is NOT KP’s problem. No one wants KP parked on the three point line but we’ve all seen him fail to take advantage of mismatches on the block. We’ve all seen him fail to fight for position when guys are looking for him.

I don’t care how good of a passer he is. He’s here to be a steady half court offensive presence who gets us buckets especially when Luka is sitting. Well he doesn’t. No one else on the team seems to have this “utilization” problem.

[Some Guy]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

You might be the only guy in this entire thread that pointed out his ability to pass

I don't think anyone has noticed beyond KP and Luka this team lacks good passers or guys who can actually find open shooters or cutters.

KP had 4 assists in game 3 Luka was the only other guy on the team who really had assist.

What does that say about the rest of team?

Mavsmoneyball touched on it we have too many guys with tunnel vision (shoot 1st mentally) and if they can't get off a good shot they are basically stranded and it results into bad possessions often.

Are you reading too much into one game? He had 1 total assist in the first 2 games combined. And averaged the 7th highest ast/game (1.6), with 15th best ast/to ratio, in the regular season - while shooting the 2nd most shots/game.
The stats suggest KP fits more in your 'tunnel vision' group than with Luka when it comes to passing.

[turin]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Utilization is NOT KP’s problem. No one wants KP parked on the three point line but we’ve all seen him fail to take advantage of mismatches on the block. We’ve all seen him fail to fight for position when guys are looking for him.

I don’t care how good of a passer he is. He’s here to be a steady half court offensive presence who gets us buckets especially when Luka is sitting. Well he doesn’t. No one else on the team seems to have this “utilization” problem.

You are contradicting yourself. Standing out at the 3-point line is poor utilization. Combine that with the fact that the 5 out is a read and react type offense that basically relegates KP to being 1 of 4 options based upon Luka's reading of the defense. Because of this, he's got a 25% chance at best of getting the ball for a scoring opportunity imo.

Please tell me another offensive system where your purported #2 option gets such little offensive focus. His lack of useage is ridiculous imo, but sure, go ahead and bag on a guy who is expected to be a shooter, but can't even get enough shots off to get into a rhythm. KP is not without his issues, but I think it's a bunch of BS how the coaches and the system get a pass on his lack of productivity.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

Are you reading too much into one game? He had 1 total assist in the first 2 games combined. And averaged the 7th highest ast/game (1.6), with 15th best ast/to ratio, in the regular season - while shooting the 2nd most shots/game.
The stats suggest KP fits more in your 'tunnel vision' group than with Luka when it comes to passing.

His assist totals for the year might be low but the dude does a great job of passing the ball.

I'm basing this off of the entire year not just this series.

KP has does a really good finding open shooters and making the proper read on his passes.

Now whether those guys convert the shot is another question after the pass....

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by turin

You are contradicting yourself. Standing out at the 3-point line is poor utilization. Combine that with the fact that the 5 out is a read and react type offense that basically relegates KP to being 1 of 4 options based upon Luka's reading of the defense. Because of this, he's got a 25% chance at best of getting the ball for a scoring opportunity imo.

Please tell me another offensive system where your purported #2 option gets such little offensive focus. His lack of useage is ridiculous imo, but sure, go ahead and bag on a guy who is expected to be a shooter, but can't even get enough shots off to get into a rhythm. KP is not without his issues, but I think it's a bunch of BS how the coaches and the system get a pass on his lack of productivity.

Perfectly said

I think the 5 out offense also stops the Mavs from letting KP crash the offensive glass vs the Smaller Clippers lineups

KP is actually a little effective as a offensive rebounder when he does play closer to the basket but most of the game he's so far stationed away from the hoop that he can't get as many offensive rebounds.

I understand that 90% of the boards don't like him or think he's a trash player but I also think some of his issues has to do with the offensive system.

I find it hard to believe that KP doesn't want to run PNR with Luka where he can get a few dunks off lobs like he did last year in the bubble.

Those sets got him more shots on a consistent basis....

This year his shots have been so inconsistent 16 shots one game and the next game he might get only 10 that has been a problem for most of the year and it's why he voiced his opinion a few months ago about it.

Kirk from MMB by no means is a fan of KP in fact he wants KP traded. But if you listen to his podcast after games he's really honest and upfront. He also believes the offense the Mavs are running is KP's biggest failure on that end of the floor. He believes KP is doing exactly what he's being coached to do which is be a stationery floor spacer on offense most of the game.

Now again the dude hates KP just as much as the next guy but he does provide some great insight into KP's lack of usage in the offense being more about the system as opposed to the player.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Coaches, teammates, and the system aren't blameless but the brunt of it is on KP. He passes up shots, he gets a mismatch and doesn't immediately drag him into the post or try to beat him off the dribble. I have no idea how much of it is system or how much of it is him passing shots up. Literally every other player on the floor attacks mismatches. DFS attacks bad defenders and pulls up in transition but the offense isn't suited for KP? Hard pass on that line of thinking for me. I'm pretty sure if you have a mismatch or you have an opportunity u have a green light in this offense. Luka get's a switch with a small and drags his ass to the post and calls for it. Do people actually think RC or the system or Luka won't allow KP to do the same?

Now there are times, especially when Luka is not on the floor, where I will see JB or THJ dominate the ball and KP won't even touch it. That's bad and should be remedied. But KP passes up open looks or good opportunities more than any #2 I've ever seen honestly. And the bottom line is if he can't generate offense while Luka is off the floor he will be gone.

[Some Guy]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

His assist totals for the year might be low but the dude does a great job of passing the ball.

I'm basing this off of the entire year not just this series.

KP has does a really good finding open shooters and making the proper read on his passes.

Now whether those guys convert the shot is another question after the pass....

Your KP glasses are clouding your vision. He does an okay job of passing. He doesn't belong grouped with Luka, who averaged more than 5 times as many assists passing to the same guys.
Actual assist stats don't support your claim, and NBA's potential assists stat also doesn't support it: https://www.nba.com/stats/players/pa...TIAL_AST&dir=1

[Some Guy]

Some things I don't understand -
If Porzingis sucks, or the offense/team is not set up for him to succeed, how did he average 20 pts in 30 min per game?
How did he average 10 2pt attempts per game if his role is simply to stand around the 3pt line?
Is that really his role, or is that one of the options which he happens to choose at times?

Is it possibly just a matter of him needing a more structured offense, telling him exactly what to do?
One of the positive things I think Avery did was force Dirk to play in the post more (and therefore, develop his post game). Does Carlisle need to do that with KP?

Earlier this season when he complained about touches, he talked with Carlisle about how to get him more involved, and then he played more aggressively for a few games. Has he just relaxed again?

[SMC0007]

This crowd is hype AF. Let's go gentlemen and womenfolk!

[turin]

Originally Posted by turin

I've always said that KP is an underrated passer, and I'd like to see some offense flow through him similar to what Denver does, but the 5 out isn't conducive to this. Also, people point out that KP is not good in the post. Well, to be frank, our offense rarely gives him opportunities in the post, and he's still a young guy, but I don't exactly see where the focus on developing this part of his game is going to come from if not from the coaches. A guy standing on the perimeter jacking 3's may not be required by the coaching staff to work on backing down players while in the post. Yes, KP has a responsibility in his development, but the coaching staff doesn't get a pass.

Has everybody already forgotten how the Mavs' coaching staff was copying plays from the Lakers because they were having trouble integrating him into the offense? I sure haven't, and those very same issues are still present.

My fear tonight is that RC reverts back to his small ball tendencies thinking he can better counter the Clippers smaller lineups that way. This is going to be a disaster if he goes this route. Powell, Brunson, Burke, THJ are all poor defenders, and RC's small ball lineups tend to have at least 2 if not 3 of those guys on the floor at the same time. It'll end up being a layup drill, and the Clippers will destroy the Mavs with an inside out game.

My typical answer that gets mocked is a zone with Boban in the middle. Hell, play Boban and KP together. KP typically stands around the 3-pt line on offense, so keep the bigs in the middle of the defense and make the Clippers beat you shooting while eliminating the layup drill.

On offense KP is going to be standing out by the 3-pt line anyway.

2nd unit, throw Maxi out there with WCS. Nice size with some shot blocking presence.

I'd flesh out the rest, but it's a waste of time - never going to happen. Chuckers gonna chuck, and go smaller when possible. :-/

Tonight I think the Mavs get physically dominated. :-(

I hope I'm wrong, but I've been watching this crapshow for too long to believe otherwise. All the Clippers have to do is take THJ out of the game and let Luka get his 40+. Stats will look great for Luka and the Mavs will lose unless KP steps up, and he's just not integral to the offense the way he is utilized, regardless of how many minutes he plays.

Nostradamus I am. :-/

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