2020-2021 Season thread - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Scoobay · 11-30-2020, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Read an interesting trade idea:

THJ/Maxi/Brunson
for
Lowry

Wonder if Raps would do it replacing Maxi with Powell.

honestly if he was 4-5 years younger maybe but then he wouldn't be available for this relatively low bundle... i just worry about the fall off at age 34 going on 35 and how he doesn't mesh with the Luka/KP timeframe.

purplefrog · 11-30-2020, 02:15 PM

I am looking forward to seeing the impact of JJ(ohnson). He could end up being an end of the bench guy or starting PF. Do teams play Luka differently with JJ on the court? Is he trade bait to land an impact player at the deadline? He's an intriguing wild card.

Melonhead · 11-30-2020, 02:34 PM

J Rich a starter.

Team had to submit two starters for media. Mavs chose Luka and Rich.

For anyone still debating that, it can be put to rest.

SMC0007 · 11-30-2020, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

J Rich a starter.

Team had to submit two starters for media. Mavs chose Luka and Rich.

For anyone still debating that, it can be put to rest.

Id be utterly shocked that anyone thought diffetently. Not sure there is a bigger no brainer involving the Mavs changes. In fact I think its safe to forever disregard anyone who might have though that. Forever

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-30-2020, 05:48 PM

Yeah, I mean, the giveaway for JRich is the fact that he averages 31 mpg for his career.

EricaLubarsky · 11-30-2020, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

J Rich a starter.

Team had to submit two starters for media. Mavs chose Luka and Rich.

For anyone still debating that, it can be put to rest.

So we traded an oft-injured bench guy for a starter.

SMC0007 · 11-30-2020, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

I am looking forward to seeing the impact of JJ(ohnson). He could end up being an end of the bench guy or starting PF. Do teams play Luka differently with JJ on the court? Is he trade bait to land an impact player at the deadline? He's an intriguing wild card.

Definitely looking forward to JJ. I don't see how he end up end of bench guy, even with Rick-rick doing rick things. DFS better stay on it or he will be coming in with Brunson off the bench.

How do you mean other teams play Luka different with JJ on the court? Not sure the direction of the question, but I'll strongly suggest people should take it easy on the idea that we have enforcers to keep Luka or anyone else from getting hard fouled or yelled at etc. With all due respect, No one in the league gives a shit about us getting tougher players. These guys don't fight, the NBA is soft and the refs are unpredictable.

EricaLubarsky · 11-30-2020, 05:59 PM

Jersey #s

Richardson - 0
Johnson - 16
Green - 8
Terry - 1 (really should have been 31)
Bey - 2

SMC0007 · 11-30-2020, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Jersey #s

Richardson - 0
Johnson - 16
Green - 8
Terry - 1 (really should have been 31)
Bey - 2

Yea. 31 would have been cool. But I love the confidence to wear 1.

NeedlesKane · 11-30-2020, 10:03 PM

So how many players are a lock for the roster on opening day? How many really have their spot on the line during the preseason?

SAFE:
Luka Doncic
Kristaps Porzingis
Dwight Powell
Maxi Kleber
Dorian Finney-Smith
Josh Green
Tim Hardaway Jr
James Johnson
Josh Richardson
Trey Burke
Willie Cauley-Stein
Boban Marjonovic

Agreed? If so, that's 12 guys who are safe.

6 guys fighting for 3 roster spots and 2 2-way spots:
J.J. Barea (roster spot)
Tyler Bey (2-way spot)
Jalen Brunson (roster spot)
Nate Hinton (2-way spot)
Tyrell Terry (roster spot/2-way spot)
Wes Iwundu (roster spot)

Jalen Brunson and Wes Iwundu are probably safe as well. We think they have other things in mind for J.J. Barea. However, I think J.J. is going to get the last roster spot.

So 3 guys are fighting for the 2-way spots as far as I can tell. I think Tyrell Terry is getting one of those 2 spots. Is Hinton really on his way out? It'll be interesting to see what happens.

BPo001 · 11-30-2020, 10:35 PM

JD Shaw: The Mavericks have signed first-round pick Josh Green, who was drafted No. 18 overall. The team also signed Tyler Bey to a two-way contract.

EricaLubarsky · 11-30-2020, 11:30 PM

Roster
---regular roster---
1) WCS
2) THJ
3) Johnson
4) Richardson
5) Powell
6) Kleber
7) Doncic
8) DFS
9) Boban
10) Brunson
11) Burke
12) Green
13) Iwundu

---inactive---
14) Tyrell Terry
15) Porzingis

---two-way players-----
16) Nate Hinton
17) Tyler Bey

---camp fodder not here when the season starts---
18) Devonte Patterson (?)
19) Freddie Gillespie (gleague)
20) Barea - rocks camp. Looks for one last player contracts. Comes back as coach if he doesn’t find it

That’s my best guess as to what things will look like when the season starts.

Scoobay · 12-01-2020, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Roster
---regular roster---
1) WCS
2) THJ
3) Johnson
4) Richardson
5) Powell
6) Kleber
7) Doncic
8) DFS
9) Boban
10) Brunson
11) Burke
12) Green
13) Iwundu

---inactive---
14) Tyrell Terry
15) Porzingis

---two-way players-----
16) Nate Hinton
17) Tyler Bey

---camp fodder not here when the season starts---
18) Devonte Patterson (?)
19) Freddie Gillespie (gleague)
20) Barea - rocks camp. Looks for one last player contracts. Comes back as coach if he doesn’t find it

That’s my best guess as to what things will look like when the season starts.

that looks solid and likely barring a trade

question - can players be flipped from active to inactive from game to game? i really wanna see Terry at some point and hope he's not riding the pine the entire season. i imagine with load management and COVID there will be times he's active. also would be nice to have a look at Bey for a call up at some point though if that happens it'd unfortunately be likely due to injury or illness.

NeedlesKane · 12-01-2020, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Roster
---regular roster---
1) WCS
2) THJ
3) Johnson
4) Richardson
5) Powell
6) Kleber
7) Doncic
8) DFS
9) Boban
10) Brunson
11) Burke
12) Green
13) Iwundu

---inactive---
14) Tyrell Terry
15) Porzingis

---two-way players-----
16) Nate Hinton
17) Tyler Bey

---camp fodder not here when the season starts---
18) Devonte Patterson (?)
19) Freddie Gillespie (gleague)
20) Barea - rocks camp. Looks for one last player contracts. Comes back as coach if he doesn’t find it

That’s my best guess as to what things will look like when the season starts.

lmao... I love how you made WCS #1 now! earlier it looked like you had players somewhat arranged by the value of their contracts for the 2020-21 sseason.

Dallas41 · 12-01-2020, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

I am looking forward to seeing the impact of JJ(ohnson). He could end up being an end of the bench guy or starting PF. Do teams play Luka differently with JJ on the court? Is he trade bait to land an impact player at the deadline? He's an intriguing wild card.

I think some of you guys are going to be really frustrated with the way he's used. He's a good player no doubt but I'm not not getting my hopes up high that he'll be a consistent rotation player.

I pretty much see him being used similiar to how Boban or WCS was utilized last year as a situational player by RC.

As for Luka, he's a big boy and I'm not sure I buy into all that enforcer stuff.

This isn't the NBA from the 90's when the term enforcer was more appropriate. Luka is still going to get fouled a lot and players are still going to jaw back and forth with each other and not a single punch will be thrown this year by a Mavs player.

Thespiralgoeson · 12-01-2020, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

As for Luka, he's a big boy and I'm not sure I buy into all that enforcer stuff.

This isn't the NBA from the 90's when the term enforcer was more appropriate. Luka is still going to get fouled a lot and players are still going to jaw back and forth with each other and not a single punch will be thrown this year by a Mavs player.

This. As if anyone is going to refrain from giving Luka a hard foul because they're afraid that James Johnson knows karate. It's a ridiculous thought.

Honestly, I'll go even further than that. It didn't matter in the 90s either. I've always believed that this alpha dog, caveman sh*t is incredibly overrated and doesn't actually help anyone win games. What does help win games is playing tough, disruptive defense. People seem to confuse the two. Sure, maybe sometimes they overlap in that the best defensive players are sometimes the dirtiest ones. But honestly I think those are the exception, not the rule. But just being "tough" or "crazy?" Seriously, who gives a sh*t?

What killed that idea forever for me was Jerry Stackhouse. Stackhouse is by all accounts one of the surliest players in NBA history, who was apparently always ready to fight someone. Did that ever ONCE help us win a game? Did that supposed toughness translate on the court at all? I don't believe it ever did. For all the talk about how he was willing to follow someone into a parking lot, he was a turnstile on defense. The only "tough" thing he ever did on the court was dish out a flagrant foul in the finals and get himself suspended for a game. Fat lot of good that did us. The Mavs were still seen as soft throughout the basketball world every year he was here.

You know who actually was tough? Like, in a basketball sense? Shawn Marion and Tyson Chandler. Neither of those guys needed to follow someone into a parking lot. They were great defensive players. Now Deshawn Stevenson was also one of those crazy, dirty types. A "dawg" if you will. But surprise, surprise, he was also a very good defensive player.

So, I am very much looking forward to seeing the new Mavs in action. But they will make the team better by being good perimeter defenders, not by being Luka's body guards.

KillerLeft · 12-01-2020, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I think some of you guys are going to be really frustrated with the way he's used. He's a good player no doubt but I'm not not getting my hopes up high that he'll be a consistent rotation player.

I pretty much see him being used similiar to how Boban or WCS was utilized last year as a situational player by RC.

Well, to be honest, I've had similar thoughts on Johnson to what you expressed above. But, let me express the counterargument, even if I'm not totally sure which way I'm leaning yet:

1) Almost every metric available, especially those related to defense, seem to point to the idea that the team was much better off with both KP and Powell playing together last season. There's a fan-driven narrative making the rounds that KP's game took off when Powell got injured, but this could be attributable to timing, as KP was working his way back into shape early on.

2) The same metrics show pretty clearly that DFS is a positive when playing the 3, but not so much (so far) when playing the 4.

3) Without Powell in the mix (which might be the reality, depending on how he looks after his awful achilles injury) the only real option they had at the 4 was Kleber, who we know is also going to play behind KP at the 5 some for spacing purposes.

4) Johnson is almost exclusively a 4, and he can play many different ways. He's a defender, a catch and shoot guy, he can be a ball-handler or a competent screener in these actions.

5) The Mavs could have simply dumped Wright for Ariza. That trade would've satisfied Detroit's need for savings this year, and Ariza is expiring (and usable), so he would've worked for Dallas, too. For some reason, they spent an EXTRA 2nd to re-route Ariza and get back Johnson instead. There could be several reasons for this, but the most likely one, imo, is to give them depth specifically at the 4, and specifically because of Powell's uncertain status.

Conclusion: I won't be surprised if your prediction proves to be correct, but I ALSO won't be surprised if Johnson is a crucial cog in their plan for a world in which Powell isn't the same guy this year. Most people aren't the same after achilles injuries.

EricaLubarsky · 12-01-2020, 09:38 AM

Training camp hasn't even begun and Dallas41 already has a negative take on the Mavs.

SMC0007 · 12-01-2020, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Training camp hasn't even begun and Dallas41 already has a negative take on the Mavs.

It looks to be mostly a negative take on Rick-rick.

I think JJ is better than DP and DFS, but I just believe they have tenure and worked their way into these roles so they'll likely start. DFS is not as crucial to the starting lineup now IMO and there is no clear drop-off in talent from DFS, DP to JJ so I don't see a situation where he just sits and wastes away on the bench. DP isn't a good defender and CAN NOT stretch the floor so add that he's coming back from an injury and it's easy to justify more of his minutes spread between others especially JJ, Kleber and WCS.

Dallas41 · 12-01-2020, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

Well, to be honest, I've had similar thoughts on Johnson to what you expressed above. But, let me express the counterargument, even if I'm not totally sure which way I'm leaning yet:

1) Almost every metric available, especially those related to defense, seem to point to the idea that the team was much better off with both KP and Powell playing together last season. There's a fan-driven narrative making the rounds that KP's game took off when Powell got injured, but this could be attributable to timing, as KP was working his way back into shape early on.

2) The same metrics show pretty clearly that DFS is a positive when playing the 3, but not so much (so far) when playing the 4.

3) Without Powell in the mix (which might be the reality, depending on how he looks after his awful achilles injury) the only real option they had at the 4 was Kleber, who we know is also going to play behind KP at the 5 some for spacing purposes.

4) Johnson is almost exclusively a 4, and he can play many different ways. He's a defender, a catch and shoot guy, he can be a ball-handler or a competent screener in these actions.

5) The Mavs could have simply dumped Wright for Ariza. That trade would've satisfied Detroit's need for savings this year, and Ariza is expiring (and usable), so he would've worked for Dallas, too. For some reason, they spent an EXTRA 2nd to re-route Ariza and get back Johnson instead. There could be several reasons for this, but the most likely one, imo, is to give them depth specifically at the 4, and specifically because of Powell's uncertain status.

Conclusion: I won't be surprised if your prediction proves to be correct, but I ALSO won't be surprised if Johnson is a crucial cog in their plan for a world in which Powell isn't the same guy this year. Most people aren't the same after achilles injuries.

I've always felt the Mavs were a better team last year when they could play two legit big's upfront together.

Trust me that was one of my biggest gripes on here along with the small perimeter players they would run out there so often together.

Powell isn't good enough by himself to protect the paint or rebound so having either KP or Kleber on the floor with him will always be a good thing in my books.

In regards for Johnson it's not about his skill set like I mentioned he's a solid player. I just don't have as much confidence as others that he'll be utilized as often as we'd like to see him. I'm just basing this off the way rotations have been handled in prior years. But hey I could be wrong and if so than I'm happy.

I'm one the biggest fans on here when it comes to defense and size so the more players the Mavs can use with those traits the better off I think they'll be this year.

KillerLeft · 12-01-2020, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

In regards for Johnson it's not about his skill set like I mentioned he's a solid player. I just don't have as much confidence as others that he'll be utilized as often as we'd like to see him. I'm just basing this off the way rotations have been handled in prior years. But hey I could be wrong and if so than I'm happy.

Yeah, I had no problem at all understanding your take.

I believe one possible explanation for the Mavericks going (pretty far) out of their way to re-route Ariza and bring in Johnson might be that they (Carlisle included) see a real NEED for another legit, modern 4. If that's the case, it would seem like he's going to get a chance.

There could be an alternate reason for this, but if so, I'm not seeing it. Again, Ariza is just as expiring as Johnson, so the increased flexibility aspect of the move would've been accomplished either way. For some reason, they specifically wanted Johnson and were willing to part with an additional 2nd round pick to get him.

EricaLubarsky · 12-01-2020, 12:32 PM

#0 JRich
#1 Terry
#2 Bey
#3 Burke
#5 JJ
#6 KP
#7 Dwight
#8 Green
#10 DFS
#11 THJ
#13 Brunson
#14 Hinton
#16 Johnson
#23 Patterson
#25 Iwundu
#32 Gillespie
#33 WCS
#42 Maxi

Scoobay · 12-01-2020, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

Yeah, I had no problem at all understanding your take.

I believe one possible explanation for the Mavericks going (pretty far) out of their way to re-route Ariza and bring in Johnson might be that they (Carlisle included) see a real NEED for another legit, modern 4. If that's the case, it would seem like he's going to get a chance.

There could be an alternate reason for this, but if so, I'm not seeing it. Again, Ariza is just as expiring as Johnson, so the increased flexibility aspect of the move would've been accomplished either way. For some reason, they specifically wanted Johnson and were willing to part with an additional 2nd round pick to get him.

i gotta believe it's for his defensive chops and i'm hoping that alone will get him a regular role with the team. i mean we were rolling out MKG for crap's sake - JJ is a huge upgrade there being able to throw him out there for 20-25 minutes to play defense while not going 4v5 on the offensive side. it's an interesting consideration knowing that maybe they had the choice to go for Ariza instead.

Does anyone think DFS takes another step forward this year? What does our closing line up look like? I think DFS was definitely a staple there last year but i'm excited that we have the depth to where maybe he's not always on the floor at the end of a close game depending on matchups.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-01-2020, 01:55 PM

James Johnson was better in Minnesota in the regular season than Marcus Morris was in his time with the Clippers. Morris also played more minutes, so there is no diminished role excuse there.

I just look at Johnson as a better defending and frankly better and cheaper Morris.

VA-Mavs-Fan · 12-01-2020, 02:48 PM

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/ma...dson-and-more/
Some good info from first day - quotes from Rick C. and JRich

This article say that Doncic is a Favorite to be MVP at 4:1 (Giannis is second)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba...vp/ar-BB1bv3Ig

Mavs sign players
https://www.mavs.com/mavericks-sign-...-iwundu-burke/

Training camp preview
https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/new...ic-lift-dallas

Thespiralgoeson · 12-01-2020, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VA-Mavs-Fan

This article say that Doncic is a Favorite to be MVP at 4:1 (Giannis is second)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba...vp/ar-BB1bv3Ig

Giannis being second surprises me. I honestly think there's no way they'll give it to Giannis again, no matter how awesome he is. His reputation is somewhat damaged from the playoff disappointments, and now he's in that spot where he has to at least get to the finals before they'll even consider him for MVP again. I think Harden is in the same boat. Both of those guys could average 40 pt triple doubles and they still wouldn't get the MVP. Plus there's also just fatigue. Even if he had won a title already, it's extremely rare for someone to win the award three times in a row. The last guy to do it was Bird. I think they're actually far more likely to give it to Lebron again, for narrative reasons for than anything.

My top five MVP voting prediction (not necessarily in this order.)

Luka
LeBron
AD
Tatum
Embiid

I'd also throw in Durant as a wild card. MVP voters fall in love with a good story. If he's even 80% of what he was before, and the Nets are at or near the top of the east, the comeback story alone might win him the award.

tap2390 · 12-01-2020, 03:32 PM

I'm going with Steph for the MVP. He's going to put up ridiculous numbers on a borderline playoff team like the year Russ won it.

SMC0007 · 12-01-2020, 03:46 PM

No one should care who gets MVP if it's not Luka. Prove me wrong.

EricaLubarsky · 12-01-2020, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

No one should care who gets MVP if it's not Luka. Prove me wrong.

100% this

Giannis has just had his time and the only way he can really surprise is if his team actually wins in the playoffs.

Curry can put up ridiculous numbers, but again, we expect him to score and it won't mean a lot if he averages 35-40points if his team is average.

Thespiralgoeson · 12-01-2020, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

I'm going with Steph for the MVP. He's going to put up ridiculous numbers on a borderline playoff team like the year Russ won it.

I find that unlikely. Russ averaged a triple double AND led the league in scoring that year. That's insane. And OKC wasn't just a borderline playoff team. They were the 6th seed. Russ was at his absolute peak. Steph is probably a little bit past his, and I think GSW will struggle to make the playoffs. For Steph to win MVP, i think he'd probably have to statistically outdo his 2016 season, and I'd be very surprised if that happened.

SMC0007 · 12-01-2020, 06:34 PM

Josh Richardsons media day was good. He's a smart dude, and generally had good answers.

FreshJive · 12-01-2020, 06:36 PM

Johnson is a Rick type of player. Not sure why people seem to be saying he’s not, but it will be a crowded roster. I think 20 minutes per game will be his ceiling, unless there are changes, injuries, or someone like Powell, Maxi, or DFS falls off a cliff as a player.

SMC0007 · 12-01-2020, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Johnson is a Rick type of player. Not sure why people seem to be saying he’s not, but it will be a crowded roster. I think 20 minutes per game will be his ceiling, unless there are changes, injuries, or someone like Powell, Maxi, or DFS falls off a cliff as a player.

*and covid

FreshJive · 12-01-2020, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

*and covid

Good point. He’s a great player for that type of situation, because he’s always been a guy capable of giving a team a solid 30+ minutes in a jam.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-01-2020, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

*and covid

Which is why the Mavs are always smart to have deep teams.

EricaLubarsky · 12-01-2020, 07:03 PM

Doncic: "This season is gonna be way better than last season."

EricaLubarsky · 12-01-2020, 07:04 PM

"We feel with some of the changes that we made & the additions... We're going to put a greater emphasis on the defensive end of the floor."

SMC0007 · 12-01-2020, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Good point. He’s a great player for that type of situation, because he’s always been a guy capable of giving a team a solid 30+ minutes in a jam.

Yea. I couldn't agree more that he is a rick type player. I think He will get minutes here regardless.

EricaLubarsky · 12-01-2020, 07:50 PM

Johnson reminds me of Walt the Wizard. Later in his career, probably will play 20 min and then a DNP and then 8 min. Maybe a few DNPS, but boy can he still play.

EricaLubarsky · 12-01-2020, 07:56 PM

Luka when asked about JJ barea’s bench presence (in Spanish) “I don’t think he’s just a bench presence, he can still play and give us a lot on the court ...off the court he gives us a lot of advice and I think it’s very important to have someone like that on the team”

Barea may just find a roster spot. Iwundu out?