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Old 05-31-2021, 07:35 PM   #161
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Match the Clipper small ball? You mean the small ball with a 6'9 Paul George and a 2 two final MVP Leonard? Matching small ball would be insane and would be the exact trap the Clippers are setting. Play Maxi and KP together and go big. Pick and roll with Luka. Even replace KP with Powell so more pick and roll options. The other people wait on the three point line for their set shot.
Have you been watching the series? They’ve been playing Maxi and KP together, and it hasn’t been exactly working defensively. Richardson and dfs might be the only two players that have a shot at keeping George and Kawhi in front of them.

What Dallas41 posted was a mavsmoneyball article, so you are arguing with Josh Bowe. From the article:

“Los Angeles has gone to small ball and haven’t looked back. Dallas can’t guard it, with Kristaps Porzingis and Maxi Kleber struggling to guard the rim and the Mavericks perimeter defenders failing to stay in front of their man. It’s led to some ugly defensive numbers for the Mavericks — the Clippers are 33-of-43 from the restricted area in Games 3 and 4. The percentage is worrying enough, but the sheer quantity of made layups is absolutely troubling.

This was after Doncic torched Zubac into the phantom zone. With their small lineup, the Clippers switch almost everything and somehow Nicholas Batum has turned into a better rim protector than Porzingis. Batum had two blocks and four steals in Game 4, after being a solid deterrent in Game 3, despite the Mavericks making 20 three pointers.”

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Old 05-31-2021, 11:51 PM   #162
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Some of the sites I've visited have also started pointing to Richardson back as starter since Kleber really hasn't done much to slow down KL.

I guess this is worth a shot and we have to hope and pray Richardson turns a switch on

Move Dorian Finney-Smith to the four
This is the easy and obvious answer: match the Clippers small ball. Dallas has started Kleber and Porzingis in the frontcourt in every game, mostly because Kleber seems to be the only option to physically matchup with Kawhi Leonard. About that — Leonard is making basically everything, regardless of Kleber’s level of defense.

So if Kleber can’t slow down Leonard, sizing down to match the Clippers speed of their small ball lineups could maybe help. All season, the Mavericks presumptive “death lineup”, the ace in the hole the Mavericks could go to, would be Luka Doncic, Tim Hardaway Jr., Josh Richardson, Finney-Smith and Porzingis. Especially before the season, the assumption was these were the Mavericks five best players, so getting them all on the floor at the same time could help.

That lineup in the regular season has been bad, due to Richardson’s poor season. In 83 regular season minutes, it’s posted a net-rating of minus-21, according to NBA.com. Perhaps that’s why Rick Carlisle has been hesitant to go with it in this series.

Richardson hasn’t really show enough in these playoff games to change that line of thinking, outside of a great fourth quarter in Game 1, but it might be time to just throw it at the wall and see what sticks. For what it’s worth, that lineup has played three minutes in this playoff series and have outscored the Clippers by seven points in those three minutes.

It’s only three minutes. That’s smaller than a small sample size — but with how this series is trending, it might be worth it. Stick Richardson on Paul George, put Finney-Smith on Leonard and just hope that is enough to at least temper the effectiveness of the Clippers small ball havoc. With how the Mavericks have played on offense for three out of the four games, a little defensive improvement can go a long way.

This is why you traded for a player like Richardson. It might be time to try it out.

Can you cite these sources when you post their articles?
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Old 06-01-2021, 08:37 AM   #163
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Old 06-01-2021, 09:15 AM   #164
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Even Coop mentioned on the radio yesterday to start J-Rich and move KP to 5. Said Kleber just wasn't working.

It does seem like Kleber and J-Rich never came back to form after getting Covid. Really hope it's not a long term thing for either of them.
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Old 06-01-2021, 11:41 AM   #165
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Can you cite these sources when you post their articles?
This one is from Mavsmoneyball

Of all teams playing in the post-season, only Boston has worse defense by a tiny margin. Mavericks played terrible defense in all four games against the Clippers. However, their unbelievable shooting in the first two games overshadowed the holes on defense. Once Hardaway Jr. and other role players shooting came down to earth, it was impossible for the Mavericks to stay competitive without getting any stops.

Having two players in Dončić and Porzingis that opponents can go at on defense in the lineup is a probem and one that the Mavericks will have to look hard at in the off-season.

Things get worse for the Mavericks when we add their third-best player, Tim Hardaway Jr. to the equation. Starting the trio of Dončić, Porzingis, and Hardaway Jr. was a clear indication that believed an all-offense line up was the best chance Dallas might have. The lineups with this trio were downright terrible on defense all season. Mavericks had a 127.2 defensive rating with all three on the floor, which ranked them at the bottom of the league (2nd percentile). Four games against the Clippers proved that it’s not possible to build a competent defense around these three. There are just too many holes to fill. The Clippers went at all three at different times in the series and scored easily. Another problem with Porzingis and Hardaway Jr. is that they have overlapping strengths in shooting and spacing. When their shots are not falling, there aren’t other aspects of the game where Porzingis and Hardaway Jr. are making an impact.


The other two players in the starting lineup, Maxi Kleber and Finney-Smith are ok defensive players with outsized responsibility for Dallas. Neither is a game-changer on defense that the Mavericks need them to be. Both struggled mightily with their defensive assignments in this series, defending Leonard and George. A defense built around three below-average defenders, and two okay ones is not a recipe for a contending team. The Mavericks just don’t have an outstanding defensive player on their roster, an all-defense kind of a guy, that they could put on one of the Clippers stars and contain at least one of them. The Mavericks have seen how that looks first-hand in this series when Kawhi Leonard first put the clamps (or paws) on Krsitaps Porzingis in Games 1 and 2, then Tim Hardaway Jr. in Games 3 and 4.
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Old 06-01-2021, 12:06 PM   #166
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This one is from Mavsmoneyball

Of all teams playing in the post-season, only Boston has worse defense by a tiny margin. Mavericks played terrible defense in all four games against the Clippers. However, their unbelievable shooting in the first two games overshadowed the holes on defense. Once Hardaway Jr. and other role players shooting came down to earth, it was impossible for the Mavericks to stay competitive without getting any stops.

Having two players in Dončić and Porzingis that opponents can go at on defense in the lineup is a probem and one that the Mavericks will have to look hard at in the off-season.

Things get worse for the Mavericks when we add their third-best player, Tim Hardaway Jr. to the equation. Starting the trio of Dončić, Porzingis, and Hardaway Jr. was a clear indication that believed an all-offense line up was the best chance Dallas might have. The lineups with this trio were downright terrible on defense all season. Mavericks had a 127.2 defensive rating with all three on the floor, which ranked them at the bottom of the league (2nd percentile). Four games against the Clippers proved that it’s not possible to build a competent defense around these three. There are just too many holes to fill. The Clippers went at all three at different times in the series and scored easily. Another problem with Porzingis and Hardaway Jr. is that they have overlapping strengths in shooting and spacing. When their shots are not falling, there aren’t other aspects of the game where Porzingis and Hardaway Jr. are making an impact.


The other two players in the starting lineup, Maxi Kleber and Finney-Smith are ok defensive players with outsized responsibility for Dallas. Neither is a game-changer on defense that the Mavericks need them to be. Both struggled mightily with their defensive assignments in this series, defending Leonard and George. A defense built around three below-average defenders, and two okay ones is not a recipe for a contending team. The Mavericks just don’t have an outstanding defensive player on their roster, an all-defense kind of a guy, that they could put on one of the Clippers stars and contain at least one of them. The Mavericks have seen how that looks first-hand in this series when Kawhi Leonard first put the clamps (or paws) on Krsitaps Porzingis in Games 1 and 2, then Tim Hardaway Jr. in Games 3 and 4.
I don't really see an answer for defense vs PG or KL. One on one, if you are hoping someone can stop them. Good luck. Richardson on Leonard would be like Luke shouting 'You are f*cking too small'. The problem is also that the Mavs jack up threes and long rebounds lead to incorrect assignments. The reason why the first two games worked is because the Mavs were scoring on threes and pick and rolls so the defense could get set up. Philosophically, the try to out small ball the Clippers is really putting the war into their strengths. I don't care what Coop or Moneyball says, they just have an opinion like everyone else.
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Old 06-01-2021, 12:07 PM   #167
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Even Coop mentioned on the radio yesterday to start J-Rich and move KP to 5. Said Kleber just wasn't working.

It does seem like Kleber and J-Rich never came back to form after getting Covid. Really hope it's not a long term thing for either of them.
KP and WCS should split the Minutes at the 5

KP for offense and WCS for defense. I think going small WCS has been our best center when contesting shots at the rim or switching out on smaller players.

I'd suggest WCS, DFS, THJ, Richardson & Luka less offense but better defensive balance.

MMB made the suggestion but don't think RC would do it

It seems like the best bet is to hope for another two incredible offensive outputs, even if the odds are low. Mavericks made at least 17 threes and shot better than 47 percent from beyond the arc in each of the first three games.

The good news is that the gamble worked out in two out of the four games already. The Mavericks need to hit the jackpot in two out of the next three, which are slightly worse odds than the four in seven when the series began.

The other alternative for Carlisle is to try to fix the defense. For that, he would need to bench Porzingis and play lineups with Wille Cauley-Stein and Josh Richardson. A drastic adjustment, one that Carlisle is probably not willing to do, based on how the team dealt with Porizngis all season. But we’ve seen crazier things happen in playoffs, and it will be interesting to see what adjustments Carlisle makes.

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Old 06-01-2021, 12:09 PM   #168
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Even Coop mentioned on the radio yesterday to start J-Rich and move KP to 5. Said Kleber just wasn't working.

It does seem like Kleber and J-Rich never came back to form after getting Covid. Really hope it's not a long term thing for either of them.
Maxi on KL is not working? What did they expect? For Maxi to contain Leonard? That's not even realistic. Maxi will let himself get posterized if it means he can stop a dunk. I don't see him as the problem. The problem defensively is Porzingis. Sorry, JRich is too small to guard either Leonard or George.
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Old 06-01-2021, 12:11 PM   #169
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KP and WCS should split the Minutes at the 5

KP for offense and WCS for defense. I think going small WCS has been our best center when contesting shots at the rim or switching out on smaller players.

I'd suggest WCS, DFS, THJ, Richardson & Luka less offense but better defensive balance.

MMB made the suggestion but don't think RC would do it

It seems like the best bet is to hope for another two incredible offensive outputs, even if the odds are low. Mavericks made at least 17 threes and shot better than 47 percent from beyond the arc in each of the first three games.

The good news is that the gamble worked out in two out of the four games already. The Mavericks need to hit the jackpot in two out of the next three, which are slightly worse odds than the four in seven when the series began.

The other alternative for Carlisle is to try to fix the defense. For that, he would need to bench Porzingis and play lineups with Wille Cauley-Stein and Josh Richardson. A drastic adjustment, one that Carlisle is probably not willing to do, based on how the team dealt with Porizngis all season. But we’ve seen crazier things happen in playoffs, and it will be interesting to see what adjustments Carlisle makes.
WCS, DFS, THJ, Richardson & Luka only works if THJ is on fire. Otherwise, it is pick and roll for Luka and WCS. WCS is not the best pick and roll guy.
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Old 06-01-2021, 12:26 PM   #170
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Here's my crazy suggestion:

Boban, Powell, Luka, Green, DFS starting 5.

Luka is HoF PG, let him read and react. He can lob to either Powell or Boban, DFS can be corner 3 guy with Green as a cutter.

Defensively, Boban and Powell anchoring a zone in the paint. Boban has the size to guard the basket, let's see Powell and Green bring some energy. Green and DFS will be worth trying around the perimeter. They won't be so exposed in zone defense. They just have to get out fast enough to somewhat contest 3's. Maxi can also start or play in place of Powell. He would give you another, better 3-pt shooter.

2nd unit: Brunson, THJ, Richardson, KP, and WCS. Again, play a zone. Brunson at PG can dribble penetrate. KP can stand out at the 3 with THJ, and Richardson can be in for defense also.

These lineups are only crazy because they are the antithesis of midget, no-D, 3-pt chukking. 2 Bigs in the middle in a zone to deter penetrations. This would make it more difficult for the Clippers to play inside out if there's not much "inside" to be had. Plus the bigs will be more effective taking away PG's mid-range game and FT line jumpers if they aren't chasing people out to the perimeter.

I know this will never happen, but this is just how I prefer to see the Mavs play - with size and more defense and rebounding. It's a totally different style of play, but imo the Mavs roster has a better chance of consistent success playing this style in hopes of winning a 7 game series than to bomb away from 3 with little to no defense.

Sure, go ahead and tell me how ridiculous this is while watching the Mavs continue to get physically dominated and run out of the building if they can't shoot 45% + from 3-pt. while playing turnstile defense in the paint.

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Old 06-01-2021, 12:31 PM   #171
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Maxi on KL is not working? What did they expect? For Maxi to contain Leonard? That's not even realistic. Maxi will let himself get posterized if it means he can stop a dunk. I don't see him as the problem. The problem defensively is Porzingis. Sorry, JRich is too small to guard either Leonard or George.
PG is less effective if stop his driving and force him into more 3's or jumpers.

The problem is the Mavs haven't stopped him from attacking the rim.

When engaged and moving his feet J.Rich is probably the best the option we have vs PG . I thought that coming into the series and I still believe it

J.Rich actually did good vs PG in the regular season final meeting....now it was just one game but he did a great job staying in front of him.

KL is going to get his regardless but I think the Mavs need to go all out makinf sure PG isn't efficient the rest of the way. If they can slow him down despite KL dominating the Mavs might still have a shot.
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Old 06-01-2021, 12:33 PM   #172
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Here's my crazy suggestion:

Boban, Powell, Luka, Green, DFS starting 5.

Luka is HoF PG, let him read and react. He can lob to either Powell or Boban, DFS can be corner 3 guy with Green as a cutter.

Defensively, Boban and Powell anchoring a zone in the paint. Boban has the size to guard the basket, let's see Powell and Green bring some energy. Green and DFS will be worth trying around the perimeter. They won't be so exposed in zone defense. They just have to get out fast enough to somewhat contest 3's.

2nd unit: Brunson, THJ, Richardson, KP, and WCS. Again, play a zone. Brunson at PG can dribble penetrate. KP can stand out at the 3 with THJ, and Richardson can be in for defense also.

These lineups are only crazy because they are the antithesis of midget, no-D, 3-pt chukking. 2 Bigs in the middle in a zone to deter penetrations. This would make it more difficult for the Clippers to play inside out if there's not much "inside" to be had. Plus the bigs will be more effective taking away PG's mid-range game and FT line jumpers if they aren't chasing people out to the perimeter.

I know this will never happen, but this is just how I prefer to see the Mavs play - with size and more defense and rebounding. It's a totally different style of play, but imo the Mavs roster has a better chance of consistent success playing this style in hopes of winning a 7 game series than to bomb away from 3 with little to no defense.

Sure, go ahead and tell me how ridiculous this is while watching the Mavs continue to get physically dominated and run out of the building if they can't shoot 45% + from 3-pt. while playing turnstile defense in the paint.
I like the way you think. Make them adjust to the Mavs. I might put THJ instead of DFS for shooting but its a wash. Boban can also be replaced by WCS. The only problem is if the Clippers get hot shooting the 3 pt. They are one of the best three point shooters in the league.
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Old 06-01-2021, 12:34 PM   #173
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PG is less effective if stop his driving and force him into more 3's or jumpers.

The problem is the Mavs haven't stopped him from attacking the rim.

When engaged and moving his feet J.Rich is probably the best the option we have vs PG . I thought that coming into the series and I still believe it

J.Rich actually did good vs PG in the regular season final meeting....now it was just one game but he did a great job staying in front of him.

KL is going to get his regardless but I think the Mavs need to go all out makinf sure PG isn't efficient the rest of the way. If they can slow him down despite KL dominating the Mavs might still have a shot.
A zone with bigs in the paint not chasing guys out to the 3-pt line will eliminate the layup drills. If anybody ever pays attention to when Boban is in, if he's near the rim, players pull up or pass out. The only time he gets burned is when he is out of position because he is cheating out towards the 3-pt line or out there completely because of his defensive assignment.

Yes, I know Boban's defensive stats appear unimpressive at a glance, but what do you expect to happen when you pull your 7'4" center out from under the basket and have him chase a small out to the perimeter? Duh! The other team will drive, drive, drive. It's not rocket surgery.

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Old 06-01-2021, 12:43 PM   #174
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Maxi on KL is not working? What did they expect? For Maxi to contain Leonard? That's not even realistic. Maxi will let himself get posterized if it means he can stop a dunk. I don't see him as the problem. The problem defensively is Porzingis. Sorry, JRich is too small to guard either Leonard or George.
J-Rich is your only shot at perimeter defense unless they decide to play Green which they won't.

Plus, maybe starting him will wake him up a bit and give him more confidence.

Because there just aren't really many options left to stop Kawhi.

Now they also brought up just letting Kawhi dominate and containing George. I think that's probably your best plan and one that the Clippers used against us in game 3 letting Luka go off.
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Old 06-01-2021, 01:53 PM   #175
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Boban is not helping you defensively.

Dude can't get to shooters and even internally he gives up a lot of layups and dunks.
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Old 06-01-2021, 03:04 PM   #176
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Boban is not helping you defensively.

Dude can't get to shooters and even internally he gives up a lot of layups and dunks.
We'll just agree to disagree. Anybody with 2 eyes who pays attention will notice the fact that the offense is completely aware of Boban when he is under the basket. Players will either not drive or kick out early rather than go straight at him. Is this 100% fool proof? Not at all, but compared to every other center on the roster, Boban is a noticeable difference in the bulk size and deterrent department. If you can't see this with your own eyes, I can't help you.

The majority of times you see layups against Boban are because he is out of position defensively, and he is not quick enough to recover. This is exactly why the Mavs should play a zone. The closer he is to the basket, the less time he needs to react and the shorter the distance he needs to cover to be able to defend. Boban's biggest defensive issue is the defensive system. He's a square peg that the coaches try to fit in a round hole by having him switch off in man and go to the perimeter. I don't know why this is such a difficult thing for you to grasp. It's not as if you can break out stats chock full of minutes with Boban and the Mavs executing a zone defense; yet you continue with your unproven assertions. Don't worry, RC agrees with you.

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Old 06-01-2021, 03:22 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by turin View Post
We'll just agree to disagree. Anybody with 2 eyes who pays attention will notice the fact that the offense is completely aware of Boban when he is under the basket. Players will either not drive or kick out early rather than go straight at him. Is this 100% fool proof? Not at all, but compared to every other center on the roster, Boban is a noticeable difference in the bulk size and deterrent department. If you can't see this with your own eyes, I can't help you.

The majority of times you see layups against Boban is because he is out of position defensively, and he is not quick enough to recover. This is exactly why the Mavs should play a zone. The closer he is to the basket, the less time he needs to react and the shorter the distance he needs to cover to be able to defend. Boban's biggest defensive issue is the defensive system. He's a square peg that the coaches try to fit in a round hole by having him switch off in man and go to the perimeter. I don't know why this is such a difficult thing for you to grasp. It's not as if you can break out stats chock full of minutes with Boban and the Mavs executing a zone defense; yet you continue with your unproven assertions. Don't worry, RC agrees with you.
I like Boban because he 'gums' up the works. He has his spots. He can change the rhythm of a game here and there. He is like a gadget you pull out to change gears and to throw something different. He has a use. Once they start hitting threes, its time to take him out. Also, he is just massive and he gets into the paint. You can see the frustration of the Clipper players when he is in. He is the elephant in the room and you can't move him.
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Old 06-01-2021, 04:52 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Simon2 View Post
I like Boban because he 'gums' up the works. He has his spots. He can change the rhythm of a game here and there. He is like a gadget you pull out to change gears and to throw something different. He has a use. Once they start hitting threes, its time to take him out. Also, he is just massive and he gets into the paint. You can see the frustration of the Clipper players when he is in. He is the elephant in the room and you can't move him.
I do sort of agree with Turin

Boban can be effective but he has to be in zone defense to protect him.

The problem is the Mavs haven't played much zone sine that 2011 team that D.Casey was coaching the defense.

RC might show you zone once every 20 games.

I've never understood why they refuse to play heavy zone because they get beat on the perimeter all the time with teams attacking the rim and knocking down open 3's

So mixing it up with zone and playing two bigs would at least clog up the paint and stop inside buckets inside that would be half the battle.

I don't think KP next to Boban on offense would be an issue because Boban would post up and KP would be the stretch guy as usual. If you really wanted to try and win games by out scoring the Clippers then IMO this would be the best way to go because Boban is a walking bucket once he gets post up position and the Clippers don't have anyone to match him which forces them to play Zubac again

Zubac is a good matchup for the Mavs offense so you would think RC would be all in on trying to force the Clippers to go back big giving the Mavs advantage again

But I really don't hold out any hope a zone defense would be used by the Mavs to the extent we saw the Heat use it last year to their advantage to protect guys like Herro and D.Robinson defensively on the floor together.
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Old 06-01-2021, 10:02 PM   #179
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Doncic “He seems to be doing better, so that's good news,” Mavs head coach Rick Carlisle says

The Dallas Mavs say Luka Doncic, dealing with a neck strain, is feeling “better” - and the Mavericks’ daily injury report ahead of Wednesday’s Game 5 at the Los Angeles Clippers reflects that.

The Mavericks are listing their MVP Doncic as “probable” to play in the game as he gets what one source tells us is “constant care” to relieve the discomfort in his neck, an injury likely sustained in Dallas’ Game 3 loss and especially problematic in a Game 4 loss that evened the NBA Playoffs series 2-all.

“He seems to be doing better, so that's good news,” Mavs head coach Rick Carlisle said Tuesday. “I'm not sure how much better, but he's definitely better."


Jordan Schultz
@Schultz_Report
·
10h

Sources say Luka Doncic is “feeling better” following a hefty dose of massage and treatment. #Mavs’ staff has been working w/Doncic around the clock for the pivotal Game 5, Wednesday night in LA. Key is to allow him to successfully plant off the left foot w/out shooting pain.

Last edited by Dallas41; 06-01-2021 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 06-03-2021, 12:22 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by turin View Post
We'll just agree to disagree. Anybody with 2 eyes who pays attention will notice the fact that the offense is completely aware of Boban when he is under the basket. Players will either not drive or kick out early rather than go straight at him. Is this 100% fool proof? Not at all, but compared to every other center on the roster, Boban is a noticeable difference in the bulk size and deterrent department. If you can't see this with your own eyes, I can't help you.

The majority of times you see layups against Boban are because he is out of position defensively, and he is not quick enough to recover. This is exactly why the Mavs should play a zone. The closer he is to the basket, the less time he needs to react and the shorter the distance he needs to cover to be able to defend. Boban's biggest defensive issue is the defensive system. He's a square peg that the coaches try to fit in a round hole by having him switch off in man and go to the perimeter. I don't know why this is such a difficult thing for you to grasp. It's not as if you can break out stats chock full of minutes with Boban and the Mavs executing a zone defense; yet you continue with your unproven assertions. Don't worry, RC agrees with you.
Shout out to this guy

excellent call for the zone with Bobi starting
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